Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:53 AM - Re: firefly cables (Herb)
2. 04:42 PM - Large head aluminum rivets (herbgh)
3. 04:52 PM - reinforcing tape (Herb)
4. 05:08 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (John Hauck)
5. 06:28 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (Herb)
6. 06:51 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (John Hauck)
7. 07:01 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (Herb)
8. 08:38 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (Stuart Harner)
9. 08:38 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (Stuart Harner)
10. 08:45 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (John Hauck)
11. 09:03 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (John Hauck)
12. 09:09 PM - Re: reinforcing tape (John Hauck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: firefly cables |
over the top Stuart... as you say the seat webbing sags a bit , no
matter how tight..and the space between that and the cables is small..
The original builder of my new Firefly project added a reinforced
aluminum pan between the two seat cross members.. Pretty heavy..and I am
considering going back to the sling seat...He made some good touches but
all add weight... For one he built an aluminum storage box to fit into
the triangular space behind the fuel tank,( a good place to carry tie
downs, oil and a small mixing tank)....and he fully enclosed the
fuselage including a door on the Right side to access the fuel and the
storage box.. I will need to have the box loaded when I do the wt and bal...
Another touch that I like is a couple of cro molly tie downs added to
the far outboard end of the wings...they are at the end of the leading
edge tube and would have been better placed if attached to the ends of
the main spar...I always used the lift struts to attach tie down rope...
Gonna be interesting at weigh in time... 285 to 290 is as heavy as I
want with full enclosure ..Herb
On 05/16/2015 11:16 PM, Stuart Harner wrote:
>
> Herb,
>
> Not that I have noticed. Guess I will have to have someone look at it
> from the side while I am in the seat. I did install the seat as tight
> as I could get it, but it does stretch a little when I am in it. It
> also recovers in a couple of hours.
>
> Did you have the sling on the top of the tube at the back of your
> butt, or did it wrap under it?
>
> Stuart
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Herb
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2015 11:26 AM
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: firefly cables
>
> Stewart
>
> On my first Friefly, the sling seat allowed my rear end stretch the
> sling seat enough to touch the cables...Is that what you see? Herb
>
> On 05/16/2015 10:09 AM, Stuart Harner wrote:
>
> Here are some greatly reduced images. Hopefully they are what you
> need.
>
> If you want to see the original files email me directly and I can
> send them to you. They are about 1.5 MB each.
>
> Stuart
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *chris
> davis
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2015 10:30 PM
> *To:* Kolb-List Diget Server; .Kolb-List@matronics.com
> <mailto:.Kolb-List@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: firefly cables
>
>
> Hi KOLBERS as you may know i am building a handicap Kolb Firefly .
> it id the second Kolb Ivhave buit my firstwas a Fiestar fat and
> fast .I have a request does anybodyvhave a picture of thier
> Firefly cables after they leave the stick and rudder pedals they
> go overfour pulleys then under four pulleys then into the fusalage
> tube .My prblem is thwt ill
>
> cant find a plan or an explanaton of how the first four are
> rigged TRAVIS has sent me plans and a new construction kanual as
> I.had to move my roject from Fl. To Ma. And somehow it disapeared
> Travis said they use washrs to pace them but the angle seems
> wrongvthe cables don travel strait over the pulley when you run
> them throughvth next set so a PIC or two would help a lot TRAVIS
> Said tha BRIAN changed the design since the plans were drawn?
>
> Thankq you CHRIS DAVIS
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>k
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Large head aluminum rivets |
Just noticed that Aircraft Spruce has 100 large head eight by eight aluminum rivets
for 22 dollars and change...Likely the same rivet for sale on EBay 1000 for
28 bucks... I have 6 wings to cover and paint...guess who will get my business.?
:-) Herb
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-Aluminum-POP-Rivets-Large-Flange-1-8-x-1-8-Grip-Quantity-Price-Breaks-/360556490046?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53f2d76d3e
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442205#442205
Message 3
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| Subject: | reinforcing tape |
Wondering also if this glass weave reinforcing tape would be suitable
for the underlayment for the large head rivets on the ribs? would need
some sort of hole punch to make the rivet holes...Herb
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-Glassweave-Reinforcing-Tape-5523613-/331411251241?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d29a66029
Message 4
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| Subject: | reinforcing tape |
Is it safe to substitute a non-aircraft product in critical component?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Wondering also if this glass weave reinforcing tape would be suitable for
the underlayment for the large head rivets on the ribs? would need some
sort of hole punch to make the rivet holes...Herb
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-Glassweave-Reinforcing-Tape-5523613-/3314112512
41?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d29a66029
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: reinforcing tape |
John
The Poly Fiber half inch Dacron reinforcing tape is almost a dollar a
yard...so looking for a suitable substitute seems in order...but safety
should always be the main concern...certainly... Then again...I have 6
wings to recover..
That said , if one could find a suitable material of similar or
better breaking strength...then I would have no problem using it.. The
poly fiber tape is a cross weave dacron polyester.. near as I can tell..
not all that strong...and does not have to be given the 17 rivets that
hold it to the ribs... top and bottom , if I counted correctly.. Very
easy to use however..
I am reminded that the Mini Max I flew for 60 or more hours used no
reinforcing at all..just the fabric covering glued to the ribs...
similar wing loading to the Firefly... I would not try that on a Firefly
given the minimal area of the metal ribs...
Always considering options and alternatives......:-) Thinking
about rib stitching....Herb
On 05/17/2015 07:07 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Is it safe to substitute a non-aircraft product in critical component?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
> Wondering also if this glass weave reinforcing tape would be suitable for
> the underlayment for the large head rivets on the ribs? would need some
> sort of hole punch to make the rivet holes...Herb
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-Glassweave-Reinforcing-Tape-5523613-/3314112512
> 41?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d29a66029
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | reinforcing tape |
Is rib stitching recommended for 5/16" round tube ribs?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
I am reminded that the Mini Max I flew for 60 or more hours used no
reinforcing at all..just the fabric covering glued to the ribs...
similar wing loading to the Firefly... I would not try that on a Firefly
given the minimal area of the metal ribs...
Always considering options and alternatives......:-) Thinking
about rib stitching....Herb
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: reinforcing tape |
Haven't gotten that far...maybe not? Just went to the Poly Fiber site
to see a short video on rib lacing...but it was a standard rib..not
tubular...
Figured out why prices are as they are...Ceconite,Poly Fiber and
Randolph coatings are owned by Consolidated Aircraft Coatings... :-)
Herb
On 05/17/2015 08:51 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Is rib stitching recommended for 5/16" round tube ribs?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> I am reminded that the Mini Max I flew for 60 or more hours used no
> reinforcing at all..just the fabric covering glued to the ribs...
> similar wing loading to the Firefly... I would not try that on a Firefly
> given the minimal area of the metal ribs...
>
> Always considering options and alternatives......:-) Thinking
> about rib stitching....Herb
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | reinforcing tape |
When I talked with Travis at Kolb he said that either would work just fine,
do what I wanted.
Personally I think not having a bunch of 1/8" holes in 5/16" tube is
stronger, but I have no proof either.
Stuart
As always, worth what you paid for it. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: reinforcing tape
Is rib stitching recommended for 5/16" round tube ribs?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
I am reminded that the Mini Max I flew for 60 or more hours used no
reinforcing at all..just the fabric covering glued to the ribs...
similar wing loading to the Firefly... I would not try that on a Firefly
given the minimal area of the metal ribs...
Always considering options and alternatives......:-) Thinking
about rib stitching....Herb
Message 9
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| Subject: | reinforcing tape |
Herb,
I rib stitched and it was quite easy to do. Used the Poly Fiber reinforcing
tape that was wider than needed. The nice part about the Poly Fiber tape is
that it has adhesive on one side so I cleaned the fabric with MEK then just
stuck the tape down. Next, I used a small finish nail held in vice grips
and a propane torch to heat the nail. I could melt through the tape and the
fabric at every hole location. This made the stitching go MUCH easier.
I was cheap and used a piece of welding rod to make my own needle. I kept a
pair of pliers handy so that I could modify the bend(s) in the needle as
conditions dictated. There were a couple of places on each rib that required
some creative thinking about how to make the next stitch, but it was kind of
fun.
It took a couple of ribs to get the technique down and to get into a rhythm
but after that it went quite fast. I figured layout time was about the same
as for rivets and melting the holes was way faster than drilling all those
ribs so I had time to spare in the stitching time which admittedly would
take longer than pulling the rivets.
Rivets are fine. I just didn't want to really screw things up by drilling
lots of holes in small ribs, call it the chicken factor. Two big advantages
for me with stitching is the easy removal if needed and slightly smaller
"bumps" under the tape. Personal preference.
I have some tape and almost a full roll of stitching cord left over. If you
are interested in it send me a private email. I will have to go to the shop
to check quantities.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: reinforcing tape
John
The Poly Fiber half inch Dacron reinforcing tape is almost a dollar a
yard...so looking for a suitable substitute seems in order...but safety
should always be the main concern...certainly... Then again...I have 6 wings
to recover..
That said , if one could find a suitable material of similar or better
breaking strength...then I would have no problem using it.. The poly fiber
tape is a cross weave dacron polyester.. near as I can tell..
not all that strong...and does not have to be given the 17 rivets that hold
it to the ribs... top and bottom , if I counted correctly.. Very easy to
use however..
I am reminded that the Mini Max I flew for 60 or more hours used no
reinforcing at all..just the fabric covering glued to the ribs...
similar wing loading to the Firefly... I would not try that on a Firefly
given the minimal area of the metal ribs...
Always considering options and alternatives......:-) Thinking
about rib stitching....Herb
On 05/17/2015 07:07 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Is it safe to substitute a non-aircraft product in critical component?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
> Wondering also if this glass weave reinforcing tape would be suitable
> for the underlayment for the large head rivets on the ribs? would
> need some sort of hole punch to make the rivet holes...Herb
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-Glassweave-Reinforcing-Tape-5523613-/3314
> 112512
> 41?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d29a66029
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | reinforcing tape |
Rib stitching is normally used on ribs with a cap strip or flat edges.
Tubing presents a problem with a tiny apex on a small tube edge.
The stitch on a 1/2" cap strip is a flat 1/2" wide flat stitch.
If you make a 5/16" or 1/4" stitch on a 5/16" round tube, the stitch will
pull the fabric and reinforcing tape down and around the top half of the
tube, causing a dimple, stressing the fabric at the stitch. Doesn't look
very professional and may not be as strong as a cap strip stitch.
That is why fabric rivets were developed for round tube ribs. I have
personal experience working with a friend's Kolb Slingshot with rib stitched
wing fabric. Not long after the Slingshot started flying, the prop began
drumming the inboard fabric enough to loosen the stitching and allow the
fabric to balloon above several inboard ribs. Caused a severe vibration and
an uncomfortable drumming noise. Took several test flights to discover the
problem. I flew close behind and above the Slingshot. At that time I saw
the fabric had pulled loose and was ballooned above the ribs. Didn't make
me feel good. I had flown the Slingshot earlier in the day at the request
of the owner to see if I could ID the problem. Flying it, I could not.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Haven't gotten that far...maybe not? Just went to the Poly Fiber site to
see a short video on rib lacing...but it was a standard rib..not tubular...
Figured out why prices are as they are...Ceconite,Poly Fiber and
Randolph coatings are owned by Consolidated Aircraft Coatings... :-)
Herb
On 05/17/2015 08:51 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Is rib stitching recommended for 5/16" round tube ribs?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
Message 11
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| Subject: | reinforcing tape |
Don't believe fabric rivets weaken the rib, but make it stronger. Once the
rivet is pulled, there is no longer a hole.
The wing and rib is constructed with holes, gussets, flanges, and rivets.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
When I talked with Travis at Kolb he said that either would work just fine,
do what I wanted.
Personally I think not having a bunch of 1/8" holes in 5/16" tube is
stronger, but I have no proof either.
Stuart
As always, worth what you paid for it. :)
Message 12
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| Subject: | reinforcing tape |
A small pencil tip soldering iron works great for burning rivet holes in the
fabric and tape, plus burning drain holes in wings and control surfaces.
Hope the other 99.9% of us that built according to the Kolb Manual didn't
screw our wings up. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Herb,
I was cheap and used a piece of welding rod to make my own needle. I kept a
pair of pliers handy so that I could modify the bend(s) in the needle as
conditions dictated. There were a couple of places on each rib that required
some creative thinking about how to make the next stitch, but it was kind of
fun.
Rivets are fine. I just didn't want to really screw things up by drilling
lots of holes in small ribs, call it the chicken factor. Two big advantages
for me with stitching is the easy removal if needed and slightly smaller
"bumps" under the tape. Personal preference.
Stuart
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