Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:49 AM - Re: Just bought a Firefly (Keith84)
2. 03:44 PM - camera mounts (Larry Cottrell)
3. 05:28 PM - Re: camera mounts (Stuart Harner)
4. 05:52 PM - Re: camera mounts (Richard Pike)
5. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: camera mounts (kinne russ)
6. 06:24 PM - Re: camera mounts (Larry Cottrell)
7. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: camera mounts (Larry Cottrell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Just bought a Firefly |
Larlaeb wrote:
> I'm probably a nervous Nellie and I'm certainly not qualified to tell anyone
what to do but I think you would feel a lot more comfortable if you had a few
hours of tailwheel instruction. As has already been stated, these planes are
not that hard to fly but they are different and the closer you can get to getting
some experience in a 'like' aircraft the better you will feel.
>
> When I got my MKIII I had no experience in this type of aircraft although I did
have a private license and had a good bit of tail dragger time (long ago).
I did the taxi drill like you are doing but also got a few hours in a Citabria
and a Cub. They are different but it did make me feel I could handle the plane
and although I was scared to death the first flight I took it all worked out.
>
> I'm in Texas in the Houston area and you can email me at Larlaeb@gmail.com.
I'm no instructor but I could probably give you a ride in my Kolb if you think
that would help.
>
> Sincerely,
> Allan
I am with you about being nervous! I se t ya an email.
--------
98' Kolb FireFly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445346#445346
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>From time to time some of you have wondered about recording your flights. I
have achieved fair results in getting recordings that are watchable, but
still have difficulty in getting "perfectly" or even "reasonably" smooth
recordings because of the vibrations from the engine traveling through the
air frame to the cameras. Since the list seems to be seething with email
messages, and I am bored, I will go through the experiments that I have
tried in this endeavor.
Cameras: I personally prefer the Virb Elite, by Garmin. The video is
crystal clear in 1080, and it gives you GPS tracking, altitude, speed and
even heart beat if you are so inclined. They also have a built stabilizer
feature that seems to help a bit. you can also set it to record when you
are moving and revert to standby when stopped. That is good for old
forgetful farts such as myself.
Second would be the cameras from Drift: They also have 1080, color is good
and crisp. Seems a bit easier to get the harmonics out than most of the
cameras. Both of these are pretty reasonable in price, and have good
battery life.
I have tried GoPro and could never get close to the stabilized video from
the other two cameras.
One of the biggest problems is the mounting system that each camera has.
Virb has a cradle, but it is solid, therefore not too bad. Drift has to me
the best and that is a standard camera mount screw.
One would believe that insulating the camera from the vibration would give
you the best results, and I spent the last weekend disproving that idea. Go
Pro is the camera of choice of the "drone" operators, and they have an
elaborate "gimble" setup with rubber isolation mounts and a gyro to keep
the camera from jumping around. I have a friend who flies these things and
on his insistence built one of my own for the express purpose of proving
him wrong. Like I say its been a bit boring here.
I tried mounts on the nose pod, gap seal of the wing, and on the wing
itself. I tried both soft and hard mounts. The best is the hard mount on
the nose pod and padded against movement seems to be the best of all.
Second best is the wing hard mount.
Here is a short test video of the different mounts. The type of mount is
shown after the vibration test. The hard mount is improved by padding it as
in the photo below. The mount in the video is on the wing in each case.
https://vimeo.com/134510125
<https://vimeo.com/134510125?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDg2MzQwZjlkMWI0OTgxYzYzMTFiM2JmOWQyNDhjYzAyMTkyfDc2NDA2NDl8MTQzNzg2MjQ5Nnw3NzAx>
password- owyheeflyer
The padded mounts are two pieces of lexan that are isolated from each other
with some foam. One is just padded and bolts are touching the lexan, the
next is isolated totally. and the last is just the cradle secured to the
wing attach point.
Larry
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Message 3
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Larry,
Thanks for posting this. Do you think if the camera had more mass it
would be more stable?
My motorcycle has weights attached to the ends of the handlebars to
dampen vibration, so I wonder if this would help with the camera.
Currently my Virb is clamped to the fuselage of the Firefly up near the
=9Cchoke=9D lever. This is not the most ideal location but
the current purpose is to record the flights for review afterwards.
Eventually it will need to be moved to a location that gives a better
view. The clamp is one from Garmin=99s mount kit and has a small
rubber isolator. I have been wanting to try the clamp for a larger tube
and just fill the gap with something to absorb more of the vibration.
The trick will be finding something soft and squishy enough to absorb
the vibration but stiff enough to hold the camera in place.
Your videos are always more stable than mine.
There is always something that needs tweaking, eh?
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:44 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: camera mounts
>From time to time some of you have wondered about recording your
flights. I have achieved fair results in getting recordings that are
watchable, but still have difficulty in getting "perfectly" or even
"reasonably" smooth recordings because of the vibrations from the engine
traveling through the air frame to the cameras. Since the list seems to
be seething with email messages, and I am bored, I will go through the
experiments that I have tried in this endeavor.
Cameras: I personally prefer the Virb Elite, by Garmin. The video is
crystal clear in 1080, and it gives you GPS tracking, altitude, speed
and even heart beat if you are so inclined. They also have a built
stabilizer feature that seems to help a bit. you can also set it to
record when you are moving and revert to standby when stopped. That is
good for old forgetful farts such as myself.
Second would be the cameras from Drift: They also have 1080, color is
good and crisp. Seems a bit easier to get the harmonics out than most of
the cameras. Both of these are pretty reasonable in price, and have good
battery life.
I have tried GoPro and could never get close to the stabilized video
from the other two cameras.
One of the biggest problems is the mounting system that each camera has.
Virb has a cradle, but it is solid, therefore not too bad. Drift has to
me the best and that is a standard camera mount screw.
One would believe that insulating the camera from the vibration would
give you the best results, and I spent the last weekend disproving that
idea. Go Pro is the camera of choice of the "drone" operators, and they
have an elaborate "gimble" setup with rubber isolation mounts and a gyro
to keep the camera from jumping around. I have a friend who flies these
things and on his insistence built one of my own for the express purpose
of proving him wrong. Like I say its been a bit boring here.
I tried mounts on the nose pod, gap seal of the wing, and on the wing
itself. I tried both soft and hard mounts. The best is the hard mount
on the nose pod and padded against movement seems to be the best of all.
Second best is the wing hard mount.
Here is a short test video of the different mounts. The type of mount is
shown after the vibration test. The hard mount is improved by padding it
as in the photo below. The mount in the video is on the wing in each
case.
<https://vimeo.com/134510125?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transco
de_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFu
c2NvZGVkfDg2MzQwZjlkMWI0OTgxYzYzMTFiM2JmOWQyNDhjYzAyMTkyfDc2NDA2NDl8MTQzN
zg2MjQ5Nnw3NzAx> https://vimeo.com/134510125 password- owyheeflyer
The padded mounts are two pieces of lexan that are isolated from each
other with some foam. One is just padded and bolts are touching the
lexan, the next is isolated totally. and the last is just the cradle
secured to the wing attach point.
Larry
--
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: camera mounts |
Years ago - 1984 ish - I spent the fall making videos using my Maxair Hummer as
the camera platform. Rotax 277, so lots of engine vibration. Zero camera vibration,
and smooth pictures. I am thinking that the new modern cameras and their
lack of mass is working against us.
Back then, I got some EMT and made a swivel mount that attached to the Hummer's
rigid gear and downtube, and positioned the camera alongside the fuselage by
my left hand. I could use my hand to pivot and aim the camera, I used it on wide
angle, and just aimed it in the general direction. Worked amazingly well, bearing
in mind that I edited out and threw away a lot of footage.
I was using a camera that probably weighed 3-5 pounds, and was connected by a cable
to a 12V VCR that was hung over the CG via a harness. Very old school, mediocre
pictures, but that was all there was back then. But here is the deal: that
big heavy camera was suspended from the EMT via small diameter bungee cords
that transmitted no vibration to the heavy camera. And today, all the cameras
weigh nothing. No mass = no mass damping.
What if you made a mount where your camera mount bracket was something heavy, and
then attached the camera to the heavy thing? Mass damping. And then hung that
in a way that would neither let it wander around nor transmit vibration? Like
using several of the 3/16" mini-bungee cords that Home Depot sells, and the
camera mount hanging via them?
Don't need to suggest any more details, you get the idea. Attach the camera to
something fairly heavy that is shock/vibration isolated from the airplane, that
way you cannot have any harmonics.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those
to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445387#445387
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: camera mounts |
Richard
While taking pix from GA aircraft, I molded a lead brick, about 3 pounds, and bolted
it onto the bottom of a regular SLR camera. Hand-held, and I didnt let
any part of my bod (north of my butt) touch any part of the aircraft. Found I
could could shoot at lower shutter speeds, in dim light, with the lead brick.
Mass is your friend here; your comments are right on.
Fair winds,
Russ K
> On Jul 29, 2015, at 8:52 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
> Years ago - 1984 ish - I spent the fall making videos using my Maxair Hummer
as the camera platform. Rotax 277, so lots of engine vibration. Zero camera vibration,
and smooth pictures. I am thinking that the new modern cameras and their
lack of mass is working against us.
>
> Back then, I got some EMT and made a swivel mount that attached to the Hummer's
rigid gear and downtube, and positioned the camera alongside the fuselage by
my left hand. I could use my hand to pivot and aim the camera, I used it on
wide angle, and just aimed it in the general direction. Worked amazingly well,
bearing in mind that I edited out and threw away a lot of footage.
>
> I was using a camera that probably weighed 3-5 pounds, and was connected by a
cable to a 12V VCR that was hung over the CG via a harness. Very old school,
mediocre pictures, but that was all there was back then. But here is the deal:
that big heavy camera was suspended from the EMT via small diameter bungee cords
that transmitted no vibration to the heavy camera. And today, all the cameras
weigh nothing. No mass = no mass damping.
> What if you made a mount where your camera mount bracket was something heavy,
and then attached the camera to the heavy thing? Mass damping. And then hung
that in a way that would neither let it wander around nor transmit vibration?
Like using several of the 3/16" mini-bungee cords that Home Depot sells, and
the camera mount hanging via them?
>
> Don't need to suggest any more details, you get the idea. Attach the camera to
something fairly heavy that is shock/vibration isolated from the airplane, that
way you cannot have any harmonics.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
> There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and
those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445387#445387
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: camera mounts |
Thanks for posting this. Do you think if the camera had more mass it would
be more stable?
My motorcycle has weights attached to the ends of the handlebars to dampen
vibration, so I wonder if this would help with the camera.
I think there is a possibility that it would help. Perhaps you can tell us.
:-) I do know that the less there is between the camera and the plane the
more stable the video is. Don't forget there is a function in the advanced
feature of Set up that will allow you to turn on Stabilize.
I tried using some of the little directional arms to get my pod mount so
that it would accept the cradle. I finally decided to bend the alum bar so
that it faced the way that I wanted it to and the video was a lot more
stable. Damn near what I want. Close but not perfect.
Larry
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
wrote:
> Larry,
>
>
> Thanks for posting this. Do you think if the camera had more mass it woul
d
> be more stable?
>
>
> My motorcycle has weights attached to the ends of the handlebars to dampe
n
> vibration, so I wonder if this would help with the camera.
>
>
> Currently my Virb is clamped to the fuselage of the Firefly up near the
> =9Cchoke=9D lever. This is not the most ideal location but th
e current purpose
> is to record the flights for review afterwards. Eventually it will need t
o
> be moved to a location that gives a better view. The clamp is one from
> Garmin=99s mount kit and has a small rubber isolator. I have been w
anting to
> try the clamp for a larger tube and just fill the gap with something to
> absorb more of the vibration. The trick will be finding something soft an
d
> squishy enough to absorb the vibration but stiff enough to hold the camer
a
> in place.
>
>
> Your videos are always more stable than mine.
>
>
> There is always something that needs tweaking, eh?
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:44 PM
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: camera mounts
>
>
> From time to time some of you have wondered about recording your flights.
> I have achieved fair results in getting recordings that are watchable, bu
t
> still have difficulty in getting "perfectly" or even "reasonably" smooth
> recordings because of the vibrations from the engine traveling through th
e
> air frame to the cameras. Since the list seems to be seething with email
> messages, and I am bored, I will go through the experiments that I have
> tried in this endeavor.
>
>
> Cameras: I personally prefer the Virb Elite, by Garmin. The video is
> crystal clear in 1080, and it gives you GPS tracking, altitude, speed and
> even heart beat if you are so inclined. They also have a built stabilizer
> feature that seems to help a bit. you can also set it to record when you
> are moving and revert to standby when stopped. That is good for old
> forgetful farts such as myself.
>
>
> Second would be the cameras from Drift: They also have 1080, color is goo
d
> and crisp. Seems a bit easier to get the harmonics out than most of the
> cameras. Both of these are pretty reasonable in price, and have good
> battery life.
>
>
> I have tried GoPro and could never get close to the stabilized video from
> the other two cameras.
>
>
> One of the biggest problems is the mounting system that each camera has.
> Virb has a cradle, but it is solid, therefore not too bad. Drift has to m
e
> the best and that is a standard camera mount screw.
>
>
> One would believe that insulating the camera from the vibration would giv
e
> you the best results, and I spent the last weekend disproving that idea.
Go
> Pro is the camera of choice of the "drone" operators, and they have an
> elaborate "gimble" setup with rubber isolation mounts and a gyro to keep
> the camera from jumping around. I have a friend who flies these things an
d
> on his insistence built one of my own for the express purpose of proving
> him wrong. Like I say its been a bit boring here.
>
>
> I tried mounts on the nose pod, gap seal of the wing, and on the wing
> itself. I tried both soft and hard mounts. The best is the hard mount on
> the nose pod and padded against movement seems to be the best of all.
> Second best is the wing hard mount.
>
>
> Here is a short test video of the different mounts. The type of mount is
> shown after the vibration test. The hard mount is improved by padding it
as
> in the photo below. The mount in the video is on the wing in each case.
>
>
> https://vimeo.com/134510125
> <https://vimeo.com/134510125?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transco
de_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2
NvZGVkfDg2MzQwZjlkMWI0OTgxYzYzMTFiM2JmOWQyNDhjYzAyMTkyfDc2NDA2NDl8MTQzNzg2M
jQ5Nnw3NzAx>
> password- owyheeflyer
>
>
> The padded mounts are two pieces of lexan that are isolated from each
> other with some foam. One is just padded and bolts are touching the lexan
,
> the next is isolated totally. and the last is just the cradle secured to
> the wing attach point.
>
>
> Larry
>
>
> --
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
> *
>
===========
onics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>
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om/contribution>
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>
> *
>
>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: camera mounts |
Richard wrote-
"What if you made a mount where your camera mount bracket was something
heavy, and then attached the camera to the heavy thing? Mass damping. And
then hung that in a way that would neither let it wander around nor
transmit vibration? Like using several of the 3/16" mini-bungee cords that
Home Depot sells, and the camera mount hanging via them?"
One of the limiting factors for cameras is what I am using it on. If I had
a partial wind screen I could perhaps use the solid bracing above my
shoulder to do this. I of course have a full canopy. If I were to put it
inside of the plane canopy I could keep it still or perhaps use something
like your suggestion. However my lexan even when it was new cuts so much
quality from the video as to make it worthless.
Outside the plane there are just so many spots to clamp a camera. One of
the problems with most cameras is the lens. With the drift, I can turn the
lens 360 degrees, so it would be the best for this. I could use the struts
or the gear legs. With the Virb I am limited to two angles right side up-
upside down. My editing programs will also turn those two angles as well,
but not anything other than 90 degrees.
In my testing I tried using the gap seal and found it to be the worst spot
on the plane. I considered bracing the gap seal from wing to wing and
decided that the possible rewards were not worth the effort.
One of the problems that I had was using some of the plastic "articulating"
partsd that came with the Virb to allow one to angle and point the camera.
I finally eliminated all of those and braced the cradle and the video is as
good as I can ask for.
I finally decided to make a short video of my flight today, just so that
you could see the result of my chosen mount.
My flight today was to check on waterholes for the upcoming Antelope
season. I don't have a tag this year, but a friend of mine does, so I am
checking for him. It starts in a week or so.
I flew 89 miles and the flight took 1 hour and 36 minutes. I burned a bit
over 3 gallons of fuel, which is about 30 mpg. I like it a lot. It was a
perfect day to fly. It was a bit cool 49 degrees at start up, but smooth as
silk. When I got back at 0945 it was just beginning to heat up. The wind
had come up to a whole 2.6 MPH out of the north.
https://vimeo.com/134905348 password - owyheeflyer
Larry
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:52 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
wrote:
>
> Years ago - 1984 ish - I spent the fall making videos using my Maxair
> Hummer as the camera platform. Rotax 277, so lots of engine vibration. Zero
> camera vibration, and smooth pictures. I am thinking that the new modern
> cameras and their lack of mass is working against us.
>
> Back then, I got some EMT and made a swivel mount that attached to the
> Hummer's rigid gear and downtube, and positioned the camera alongside the
> fuselage by my left hand. I could use my hand to pivot and aim the camera,
> I used it on wide angle, and just aimed it in the general direction. Worked
> amazingly well, bearing in mind that I edited out and threw away a lot of
> footage.
>
> I was using a camera that probably weighed 3-5 pounds, and was connected
> by a cable to a 12V VCR that was hung over the CG via a harness. Very old
> school, mediocre pictures, but that was all there was back then. But here
> is the deal: that big heavy camera was suspended from the EMT via small
> diameter bungee cords that transmitted no vibration to the heavy camera.
> And today, all the cameras weigh nothing. No mass = no mass damping.
> What if you made a mount where your camera mount bracket was something
> heavy, and then attached the camera to the heavy thing? Mass damping. And
> then hung that in a way that would neither let it wander around nor
> transmit vibration? Like using several of the 3/16" mini-bungee cords that
> Home Depot sells, and the camera mount hanging via them?
>
> Don't need to suggest any more details, you get the idea. Attach the
> camera to something fairly heavy that is shock/vibration isolated from the
> airplane, that way you cannot have any harmonics.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
> There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,'
> and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445387#445387
>
>
--
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
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