Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (Richard Pike)
2. 07:06 AM - Re: AOA (John Hauck)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (John Hauck)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (Rex Rodebush)
5. 12:58 PM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (Richard Pike)
6. 01:20 PM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (George Alexander)
7. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (Jack B. Hart)
8. 06:04 PM - Re: AOA (kinne russ)
9. 06:10 PM - Re: AOA (Jack B. Hart)
10. 06:31 PM - Re: AOA (Larry Cottrell)
11. 07:00 PM - Re: AOA (John Hauck)
12. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (John Hauck)
13. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (John Hauck)
14. 07:22 PM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (John Hauck)
15. 07:32 PM - Re: AOA (Charlie England)
16. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (Larry Cottrell)
17. 07:39 PM - Re: AOA (John Hauck)
18. 08:01 PM - Re: AOA (Larry Cottrell)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
Rex Rodebush wrote:
> I've got gap seals on everything but the horiz. stab. to fuselage tube. My M3X
flies good it seems to me. What would be the expected improvement if I add
the stab. to tube seal?
I had two reasons: one is that with a heavy passenger, my MKIII did not have enough
elevator authority at max forward CG and minimum airspeeds. The vortex generators
on the wings give the ability to fly an approach at 45 mph with a 26
mph stall speed, even with a passenger. But at those speeds and CG conditions,
when it comes time to flare, pulling the stick back did not raise the nose, the
AOA did not change with elevator movement.
However, gap sealing the elevators to the horizontal stab, sealing the stab to
the fuslelage, and adding VG's to the underside of the stab gave more control
authority in that particular situation, the elevators became more effective.
The second is that many years ago I got obsessive about removing all the drag I
could, I wanted to be able to cruise at 65 with the lowest possible throttle
setting, and any sort of gap like that adds drag.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451969#451969
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
Turning blue at hauck's holler.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn on
the Lexan and see if it will work.
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: AOA
<https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I
think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more
weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit
of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the
cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I
found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain
and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be
able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
Richard:
Did you make one change at a time and test after each change?
Where did you place the vg's on the underside of the horizontal stabilizer?
I didn't realize how much the flaps stole air from the elevators until I did
a little experiment with a 220 lb passenger. I had been demonstrating some
aggressive stalls, dives, and pull outs, when I got the idea to try it with
full flaps. On my Kolb MKIII that is 40 degrees. Pushed the nose straight
down, hit 85 mph, tried to do an abrupt pull out and the aircraft never
changed attitude with the stick full back. Got rid of the flaps and she
pulled right out.
After that experiment I could then understand the possibility of running out
of elevator at extremely slow speeds with a heavy passenger on landing.
I have decided to install vg's on my MKIII. Now I need to buy some,
probably from John Gilpin . Dan Horton, one of my airplane buddies has said
he will give me a hand with the install. How far back from the leading edge
do you place the front edge of the vg for best all around results.
Too cold to play airplane at Gantt International Airport, Alabama.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 6:56 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
--> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
Rex Rodebush wrote:
> I've got gap seals on everything but the horiz. stab. to fuselage tube.
My M3X flies good it seems to me. What would be the expected improvement if
I add the stab. to tube seal?
I had two reasons: one is that with a heavy passenger, my MKIII did not have
enough elevator authority at max forward CG and minimum airspeeds. The
vortex generators on the wings give the ability to fly an approach at 45 mph
with a 26 mph stall speed, even with a passenger. But at those speeds and CG
conditions, when it comes time to flare, pulling the stick back did not
raise the nose, the AOA did not change with elevator movement.
However, gap sealing the elevators to the horizontal stab, sealing the stab
to the fuslelage, and adding VG's to the underside of the stab gave more
control authority in that particular situation, the elevators became more
effective.
The second is that many years ago I got obsessive about removing all the
drag I could, I wanted to be able to cruise at 65 with the lowest possible
throttle setting, and any sort of gap like that adds drag.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451969#451969
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
I don't have V.G.'s but was able to do a full stall landing with a 220# passenger.
I do have the larger horizontal stabilizer that was called for shortly after
the original Xtra came out. That may be a factor.
The drag reduction makes good sense so I'll probably go ahead and put the seals
on. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451974#451974
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
John; it's been a while, but as I remember, I put the VG's on the underside of
the horizontal stab, test flew it, made a lot of landings, ssaw improvement. Then
I put gap seals between the stab & the elevator, same tests, saw more improvement.
Then I added the gap seal between the stab and the fuselage, did not
notice much difference.
The VG's on the underside of the stab are in a straight line; the innermost one has it's back end at 7" aft of the leading edge, measured with the ruler parallel to the boom tube. The outermost one is at the hinge line and 7" from the outboard end. I have no idea if this location is optimum, I had read that 10% of chord is a good rule of thumb, so I put them there, did not experiment with moving them around. Jack Hart has his right behind the leading edge: http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly62.html
This page shows them at a fixed distance ahead of the hinge line http://www.vortex-generators.com/installation-of-vortex-generators.html as does this one http://www.speedcomfly.com/sito-ecommerce/file_info/vortex.pdf
If you would like to try several different locations to find the optimum and let
us know, I will gladly move mine to a better position!
My web pages are now on George Alexander's web site, where I've got some fairly extensive details on how I did the VG thing. Here is the one for the MKIII: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Vortex%20Generators.html
Here is the one for the FSII: some of the data overlaps a bit and it is also useful. http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/FSII%20Vortex%20Generators.html
Something you might think of trying, - and I enjoyed doing the process - take your
VG's and tape them on and try different measurements. I would use little squares
of that aluminum metal duct tape, cut a slot in the middle of the square
and poke the VG through, apply to wing, go fly, make notes. Move them to a different
spot and do it again. That is how I came to the conclusion as to where
they worked best on my airplane. When you hit the sweet spot, you can tell.
It is subtle and subjective, but you will know it when it happens. OTOH, if you
just took my numbers and used them, you would still like it, but that might
not be the ideal setup for Miss P'Fer, and as much work as you have put into
the airplane over the years, you ought to go for ideal rather than just better.
Besides, once you get involved in the process; slow flying, stalling, moving
them to a new spot, flying again, better here, not as good there - it becomes
quite intriguing. A Quest for Perfection, very addictive.
When you get done, you will find that you now have a different airplane. Kind of
like taking Sweet Thing out to dinner, and suddenly realizing that she has somehow
lost 50 pounds and become 20 years younger... Enjoy!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451979#451979
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
John Hauck wrote:
> Richard:
>
> = S = N = I = P
>
> I have decided to install vg's on my MKIII.
>
> = S = N = I = P
>
> Too cold to play airplane at Gantt International Airport, Alabama.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
> --
Well, without a doubt, someone has hacked his account and posing as John Hauck.
Either that or the cold has gotten to him. Based on the quote above about
installing VGs on his Kolb MK III one or the other has to be the case.
:D :D :D :D
HAPPY NEW YEAR Everyone!
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451981#451981
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
John,
VG's under the horizontal stabilizer leading edge will give you a
little more nose up.
If the VG's do not do the job for you with the full flaps, you may
want to try them on the wing too. By placing VG's on the wing,
they move the wings center of lift toward the tail. Since this
effect is over a much greater area and length, it may produce a
greater favorable effect than just putting them on the horizontal
stabilizer.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
John
Hope you=99re not completely blue. It=99s a balmy 17F here
now. Dont visit for awhile.
Never thought I=99d hear you say VG=99s without cussing. In
a day or 2 I=99ll measure where mine are on the Xtra. Put on by
the original builder here in Maine. I had to replace those on one wing,
gottum from Gilpin. Good stuff, easy to apply.
Fair winds,
Russ K
> On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:06 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
>
> Turning blue at hauck's holler.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
> PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn
on the Lexan and see if it will work.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: AOA
>
> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s <https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>
> Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube.
I think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more
weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit
of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the
cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I
found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain
and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be
able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
> Larry
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
><https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum
first.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> A very elegant solution
>
> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>
>> <https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>>
>
> I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
> looking forward.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Over the years folks on this List have assumed that I do not like VGs.
That assumption was and is entirely incorrect.
My stand on VGs has always been, in the past, that I did not need them
on my MKIII. Until recently I was a much better pilot than I am now.
Two reasons:
-Age.
-Not flying nearly as much as I used to. I am rusty and will be rusty
until I decide I want to fly much more frequently.
Flying Larry Cottrell's FSII convinced me that VGs help make a
difference landing for old pilots that are rusty as Hell. Why not take
advantage of that change/improvement?
Never said I did not like VGs.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kinne russ
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: AOA
John
Hope you=99re not completely blue. It=99s a balmy 17F here
now. Dont visit for awhile.
Never thought I=99d hear you say VG=99s without cussing. In
a day or 2 I=99ll measure where mine are on the Xtra. Put on by
the original builder here in Maine. I had to replace those on one wing,
gottum from Gilpin. Good stuff, easy to apply.
Fair winds,
Russ K
On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:06 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
Turning blue at hauck's holler.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn on
the Lexan and see if it will work.
From: <mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>
mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: AOA
<https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I
think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more
weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit
of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the
cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I
found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain
and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be
able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
I plan to eventually install VGs on the wings first. Then I'll work on the
tail section.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B. Hart
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
--> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
John,
VG's under the horizontal stabilizer leading edge will give you a little
more nose up.
If the VG's do not do the job for you with the full flaps, you may want to
try them on the wing too. By placing VG's on the wing, they move the wings
center of lift toward the tail. Since this effect is over a much greater
area and length, it may produce a greater favorable effect than just putting
them on the horizontal stabilizer.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
Thanks for the info.
I plan to get started on this as soon as I get some VGs and the weather
warms up a bit.
john h
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 2:57 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
--> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
John; it's been a while, but as I remember, I put the VG's on the underside
of the horizontal stab, test flew it, made a lot of landings, ssaw
improvement. Then I put gap seals between the stab & the elevator, same
tests, saw more improvement. Then I added the gap seal between the stab and
the fuselage, did not notice much difference.
The VG's on the underside of the stab are in a straight line; the innermost
one has it's back end at 7" aft of the leading edge, measured with the ruler
parallel to the boom tube. The outermost one is at the hinge line and 7"
from the outboard end. I have no idea if this location is optimum, I had
read that 10% of chord is a good rule of thumb, so I put them there, did not
experiment with moving them around. Jack Hart has his right behind the
leading edge: http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly62.html
This page shows them at a fixed distance ahead of the hinge line
http://www.vortex-generators.com/installation-of-vortex-generators.html
as does this one
http://www.speedcomfly.com/sito-ecommerce/file_info/vortex.pdf
If you would like to try several different locations to find the optimum and
let us know, I will gladly move mine to a better position!
My web pages are now on George Alexander's web site, where I've got some
fairly extensive details on how I did the VG thing. Here is the one for the
MKIII: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Vortex%20Generators.html
Here is the one for the FSII: some of the data overlaps a bit and it is also
useful. http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/FSII%20Vortex%20Generators.html
Something you might think of trying, - and I enjoyed doing the process -
take your VG's and tape them on and try different measurements. I would use
little squares of that aluminum metal duct tape, cut a slot in the middle of
the square and poke the VG through, apply to wing, go fly, make notes. Move
them to a different spot and do it again. That is how I came to the
conclusion as to where they worked best on my airplane. When you hit the
sweet spot, you can tell. It is subtle and subjective, but you will know it
when it happens. OTOH, if you just took my numbers and used them, you would
still like it, but that might not be the ideal setup for Miss P'Fer, and as
much work as you have put into the airplane over the years, you ought to go
for ideal rather than just better. Besides, once you get involved in the
process; slow flying, stalling, moving them to a new spot, flying again,
better here, not as good there - it becomes quite intriguing. A Quest for
Perfection, very add!
ictive.
When you get done, you will find that you now have a different airplane.
Kind of like taking Sweet Thing out to dinner, and suddenly realizing that
she has somehow lost 50 pounds and become 20 years younger... Enjoy!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451979#451979
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
I'll be alright. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Alexander
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
--> <gtalexander@att.net>
John Hauck wrote:
> Richard:
>
> = S = N = I = P
>
> I have decided to install vg's on my MKIII.
>
> = S = N = I = P
>
> Too cold to play airplane at Gantt International Airport, Alabama.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
> --
Well, without a doubt, someone has hacked his account and posing as John
Hauck. Either that or the cold has gotten to him. Based on the quote
above about installing VGs on his Kolb MK III one or the other has to be the
case.
:D :D :D :D
HAPPY NEW YEAR Everyone!
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451981#451981
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in
the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of
sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to
the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
> testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
> eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the
> alum first.
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net
> <mailto:jbhart@onlyinternet.net>> wrote:
>
> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net <mailto:jbhart@onlyinternet.net>>
>
> Larry,
>
> A very elegant solution
>
> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>
> <https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>
>
> I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
> looking forward.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
I plan to eventually install VGs on the wings first. Then I'll work on the
tail section.
john h
mkIII
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any Kolb will fly better with VG's only on the wings. I flew that way for
quite a long time, but I noticed with the increased lift from the wing,
that when landing my tail wheel was touching down first. When I would come
in to land and I tried to flare, the tail would go right on through to the
ground rather than flare with the wings. I finally decided that the wings
were blanking much of the air from the elevator. The rest was lost at the
steep angle of the elevator in relation to the wind. I installed four VG's
on each side of the elevator, on the bottom, right at the hinge point. The
result was that I was able to make three point landings much easier, since
my tail was still flying.
Perhaps there are better places than the hinge line to install VG's, but
the ones that I did install have improved the situation tremendously. It
only makes sense that if there are VG's on the wings, they will hold the
air longer before stalling. The tail with none, will stall before the wing
in a landing configuration.
FWIW
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:02 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I plan to eventually install VGs on the wings first. Then I'll work on the
> tail section.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B. Hart
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:02 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
>
> --> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> John,
>
> VG's under the horizontal stabilizer leading edge will give you a little
> more nose up.
>
> If the VG's do not do the job for you with the full flaps, you may want to
> try them on the wing too. By placing VG's on the wing, they move the wings
> center of lift toward the tail. Since this effect is over a much greater
> area and length, it may produce a greater favorable effect than just
> putting
> them on the horizontal stabilizer.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Quick scan, cross check?
In a Kolb, any model, I find the ASI works great to prevent stalls.
There is very little difference in air speed between a straight and
level stall and an accelerated stall.
I realize the subject is AOA. Guess I am trying to say I don't think I
need one. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
England
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: AOA
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in
the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of
sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to
the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the
alum first.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
wrote:
<jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
<https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 18
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Charlie England via <https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1311182?hl=en>
matronics.com
8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
to kolb-list
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the
headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight
while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the
side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my peripheral
vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually make it
audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper places.
However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so. :-)
I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am
sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other
unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I
am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be
happy to change.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the
> headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight
> while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the
> side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
>
> On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
> Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
> testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
> eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum
> first.
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
> wrote:
>
>> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> A very elegant solution
>>
>> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s> <https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>
>>> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>>>
>>
>> I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
>> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
>> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
>> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
>> looking forward.
>>
>> Jack B. Hart FF004
>> Winchester, IN
>>
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|