---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/21/16: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:02 AM - Fw: America's new toy!! (Patrick Ladd) 2. 06:21 AM - Re: Fw: America's new toy!! (Herb) 3. 07:14 AM - Re: Fw: America's new toy!! (Patrick Ladd) 4. 08:01 AM - Re: Fw: America's new toy!! (Herb) 5. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: AOA (Charlie England) 6. 08:49 AM - Re: Fw: America's new toy!! (Charlie England) 7. 09:45 AM - Re: Fw: America's new toy!! (Herb) 8. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: AOA (John Hauck) 9. 04:37 PM - A question of Battery type (Nick Cassara) 10. 04:49 PM - Re: A question of Battery type (John Hauck) 11. 05:07 PM - Re: A question of Battery type (B Young) 12. 05:11 PM - Re: A question of Battery type (Charlie England) 13. 07:01 PM - Re: A question of Battery type (Richard Girard) 14. 07:34 PM - Re: A question of Battery type (Larry Cottrell) 15. 07:37 PM - Re: A question of Battery type (John Hauck) 16. 07:41 PM - Re: A question of Battery type (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:56 AM PST US From: Patrick Ladd Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat .nz Subject: Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!! OMG!!! what ever next! want for Xmas is Lily!!!! America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!! Throw and Shoot Camera. 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography. Just throw it into the air. They are selling at $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon. Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your great shots. This technology is bordering on science fiction. It will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch. Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It lets anyone create cinematic footage previously reserved for professional filmmakers. Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots stunning HD pictures and videos. Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! From: Herb I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a quarter , that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3 axis Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the device that would be in this gilded Lilly... Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I sat down to learn the C language so I could program some of the equally small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end of story...:-) Herb On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote: > All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration > and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat > .nz > *Subject:* Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!! > > > OMG!!! what ever next! > > want for Xmas is Lily!!!! > America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!! > Throw and Shoot Camera. > 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography. > Just throw it into the air. They are selling at > $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon. > Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air > before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your > great shots. > This technology is bordering on science fiction. It > will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and > with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch. > Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It > lets anyone create cinematic footage previously > reserved for professional filmmakers. > Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots > stunning HD pictures and videos. > Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > . > > > > -- Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me." ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:16 AM PST US From: Patrick Ladd Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! yeah, i could see that might slow you down. Just imagine having this thing fly a circuit round filming you while you are flying, follow you into a .tight landing spot. Maybe even fly back to you in the cockpit Like calling a hawk back to your wrist. Wow! Bet the FAA would have conniptions. Pat From: Herb Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a quarter , that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3 axis Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the device that would be in this gilded Lilly... Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I sat down to learn the C language so I could program some of the equally small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end of story...:-) Herb On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote: All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat .nz Subject: Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!! OMG!!! what ever next! want for Xmas is Lily!!!! America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!! Throw and Shoot Camera. 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography. Just throw it into the air. They are selling at $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon. Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your great shots. This technology is bordering on science fiction. It will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch. Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It lets anyone create cinematic footage previously reserved for professional filmmakers. Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots stunning HD pictures and videos. Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ . -- Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out=94 Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out=94 Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out=94 Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me=94and there was no one left to speak for me." ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! From: Herb My idea, since I have never really grown up :-) , was to try an auto pilot trim system on my Firefly....on very calm days that is.... since I doze off each time I try to learn something new at age 72, guess it is on the back burner!! Herb On 01/21/2016 09:13 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote: > yeah, i could see that might slow you down. Just imagine having this > thing fly a circuit round filming you while you are flying, follow you > into a .tight landing spot. Maybe even fly back to you in the cockpit > Like calling a hawk back to your wrist. Wow! Bet the FAA would have > conniptions. > Pat > *From:* Herb > *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:21 PM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! > I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a > quarter , that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3 > axis Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the device > that would be in this gilded Lilly... > > Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I sat > down to learn the C language so I could program some of the equally > small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end of > story...:-) Herb > > On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote: >> All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration >> and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat >> .nz >> *Subject:* Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!! >> >> >> OMG!!! what ever next! >> >> want for Xmas is Lily!!!! >> America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!! >> Throw and Shoot Camera. >> 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography. >> Just throw it into the air. They are selling at >> $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon. >> Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air >> before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your >> great shots. >> This technology is bordering on science fiction. It >> will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and >> with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch. >> Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It >> lets anyone create cinematic footage previously >> reserved for professional filmmakers. >> Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots >> stunning HD pictures and videos. >> Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0 >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: > > "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out > Because I was not a Socialist. > > Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out > Because I was not a Trade Unionist. > > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out > Because I was not a Jew. > > Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me." > > -- Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me." ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA From: Charlie England I've got maybe 5 hrs in a 172, & none in a Kolb, so maybe you can help. My RV-4 stalls in the low 50's (mph) and best rate of climb is actually a rather wide range instead of a single number; from around 110 mph up to around 130 mph, due to the fixed pitch prop & the low aspect ratio 'hershey bar' wing. (Drag goes up rather quickly as the plane slows down due to induced drag, & the highly pitched cruise prop loses efficiency at lower airspeeds and limits engine power at lower rpm so best rate is almost the same from 110 to 130.) Best angle of climb is around 85 mph. Point is, the actual mph spread between best rate & stall is around 55 mph. The spread between best angle and stall is around 30 mph. What are the spreads for your Kolb? If the actual mph spreads are closer (percentages might be the same, or even better; I don't know), then an accurate AOA might be *more* useful in a Kolb than something like an RV, with large speed spreads. Charlie On 1/20/2016 3:48 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > How would one compute the speed range of my mkIII and a Cessna 172? and > compare the results? > > Never flown with an AOA. I think it would be interesting to play with to > learn what it does and how it would improve me and my MKIII's flying. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:51 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA > > > On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote: >> >> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the > airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on; unless > it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable. Without an audio > warning I don't see the point. > This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their (relatively) > narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world, you'd ignore airspeed & > monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can change quite a bit with gross > weight, but angle of attack does not. Same applies to optimum best angle and > best rate in climb. > > With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in the > cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc. > > The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy & > Marine a/c use AOA for approaches. > > Charlie > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! From: Charlie England Here you go, Herb. All you have to do is stay awake long enough to install it. http://www.trutrakap.com/product/eco/ On 1/21/2016 10:00 AM, Herb wrote: > My idea, since I have never really grown up :-) , was to try an auto > pilot trim system on my Firefly....on very calm days that is.... since > I doze off each time I try to learn something new at age 72, guess it > is on the back burner!! Herb > > On 01/21/2016 09:13 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote: >> yeah, i could see that might slow you down. Just imagine having this >> thing fly a circuit round filming you while you are flying, follow >> you into a .tight landing spot. Maybe even fly back to you in the >> cockpit Like calling a hawk back to your wrist. Wow! Bet the FAA >> would have conniptions. >> Pat >> *From:* Herb >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:21 PM >> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! >> I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a >> quarter , that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3 >> axis Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the device >> that would be in this gilded Lilly... >> >> Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I >> sat down to learn the C language so I could program some of the >> equally small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end of >> story...:-) Herb >> >> On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote: >>> All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration >>> and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat >>> .nz >>> *Subject:* Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!! >>> >>> >>> OMG!!! what ever next! >>> >>> want for Xmas is Lily!!!! >>> America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!! >>> Throw and Shoot Camera. >>> 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography. >>> Just throw it into the air. They are selling at >>> $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon. >>> Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air >>> before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your >>> great shots. >>> This technology is bordering on science fiction. It >>> will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and >>> with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch. >>> Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It >>> lets anyone create cinematic footage previously >>> reserved for professional filmmakers. >>> Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots >>> stunning HD pictures and videos. >>> Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: >> >> "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out >> Because I was not a Socialist. >> >> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out >> Because I was not a Trade Unionist. >> >> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out >> Because I was not a Jew. >> >> Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me." >> >> > > -- > Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: > > "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out > Because I was not a Socialist. > > Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out > Because I was not a Trade Unionist. > > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out > Because I was not a Jew. > > Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me." > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! From: Herb That sort of fits in with my thesis..which is...."amazing what can be done with 50 bucks worth of electronics...and a smidge of programming....". :-) Its all in the software... which I avoided like the plague when in the Computer business...in the 60's thru 80's.. $999 !! Herb ps They or someone else has a demo on You tube.. On 01/21/2016 10:47 AM, Charlie England wrote: > Here you go, Herb. All you have to do is stay awake long enough to > install it. > http://www.trutrakap.com/product/eco/ > > > On 1/21/2016 10:00 AM, Herb wrote: >> My idea, since I have never really grown up :-) , was to try an auto >> pilot trim system on my Firefly....on very calm days that is.... >> since I doze off each time I try to learn something new at age 72, >> guess it is on the back burner!! Herb >> >> On 01/21/2016 09:13 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote: >>> yeah, i could see that might slow you down. Just imagine having this >>> thing fly a circuit round filming you while you are flying, follow >>> you into a .tight landing spot. Maybe even fly back to you in the >>> cockpit Like calling a hawk back to your wrist. Wow! Bet the FAA >>> would have conniptions. >>> Pat >>> *From:* Herb >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:21 PM >>> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!! >>> I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a >>> quarter , that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3 >>> axis Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the >>> device that would be in this gilded Lilly... >>> >>> Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I >>> sat down to learn the C language so I could program some of the >>> equally small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end >>> of story...:-) Herb >>> >>> On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote: >>>> All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, >>>> vibration and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat >>>> .nz >>>> *Subject:* Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!! >>>> >>>> >>>> OMG!!! what ever next! >>>> >>>> want for Xmas is Lily!!!! >>>> America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!! >>>> Throw and Shoot Camera. >>>> 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography. >>>> Just throw it into the air. They are selling at >>>> $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon. >>>> Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air >>>> before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your >>>> great shots. >>>> This technology is bordering on science fiction. It >>>> will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and >>>> with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch. >>>> Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It >>>> lets anyone create cinematic footage previously >>>> reserved for professional filmmakers. >>>> Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots >>>> stunning HD pictures and videos. >>>> Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: >>> >>> "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out >>> Because I was not a Socialist. >>> >>> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out >>> Because I was not a Trade Unionist. >>> >>> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out >>> Because I was not a Jew. >>> >>> Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me." >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: >> >> "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out >> Because I was not a Socialist. >> >> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out >> Because I was not a Trade Unionist. >> >> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out >> Because I was not a Jew. >> >> Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me." >> >> > -- Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me." ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:59 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: AOA Stall on my MKIII is 30 mph (power off in ground effect), about 33 (out of ground effect) best angle 50 mph, best rate 60 with a spread of 17/37 mph. Pretty close. On a good day it will climb at or a tad below stall speed. This is a unique capability of all models of Kolb aircraft. Full throttle, stick back to the stop, they will continue to climb, prop going in and out of cavitation, aircraft doing a shallow porpoise maneuver, nose feels like it is straight up. Must sound strange to those on the ground. Kolbs are different animals. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama - Cold, wet, gray at hauck's holler, but not nearly as bad as my friends further north. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA I've got maybe 5 hrs in a 172, & none in a Kolb, so maybe you can help. My RV-4 stalls in the low 50's (mph) and best rate of climb is actually a rather wide range instead of a single number; from around 110 mph up to around 130 mph, due to the fixed pitch prop & the low aspect ratio 'hershey bar' wing. (Drag goes up rather quickly as the plane slows down due to induced drag, & the highly pitched cruise prop loses efficiency at lower airspeeds and limits engine power at lower rpm so best rate is almost the same from 110 to 130.) Best angle of climb is around 85 mph. Point is, the actual mph spread between best rate & stall is around 55 mph. The spread between best angle and stall is around 30 mph. What are the spreads for your Kolb? If the actual mph spreads are closer (percentages might be the same, or even better; I don't know), then an accurate AOA might be *more* useful in a Kolb than something like an RV, with large speed spreads. Charlie On 1/20/2016 3:48 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > How would one compute the speed range of my mkIII and a Cessna 172? > and compare the results? > > Never flown with an AOA. I think it would be interesting to play with > to learn what it does and how it would improve me and my MKIII's flying. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie > England > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:51 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA > > --> > > On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote: >> --> >> >> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the > airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on; > unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable. > Without an audio warning I don't see the point. > This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their > (relatively) narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world, > you'd ignore airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can > change quite a bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does not. > Same applies to optimum best angle and best rate in climb. > > With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in > the cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc. > > The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy > & Marine a/c use AOA for approaches. > > Charlie > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:57 PM PST US From: Nick Cassara Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type Kolbers, In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.so, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium. Thank you as always for your insights! Nick Cassara Palmer, AK PAAQ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:29 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type Nick C: I use, and have used for many years, an AGM lead acid battery. Works well for me. Is very reliable and serviceable for many years. Keep mine charged with a small solar charger that has a conditioner/maintainer capability. http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html Guess I am a tad old fashioned. I'll let others test fly the lithium batteries until they are refined enough I know they won't burst into flames while I am 90 miles from nowhere. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Cassara Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 6:36 PM Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type Kolbers, In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.so, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium. Thank you as always for your insights! Nick Cassara Palmer, AK PAAQ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type From: B Young That is a good question. Wish I knew the answer. Lithium has overcharging or uneven charging issues, Good side, it is very light....while lead acid is heavier, no charging issues. I use the recombinant gas technology. It is more like lead acid but can't spill. I have taken apart a ups(uninterruptible power supply) found a crack from the top right corner across every cell to the lower left corner, zero leakage or damage to the ups. My last one lasted 9 years, it was still starting the plane, but I could tell it was turning a bit slower. Mine is a 17 amp hour out of a harbor frt jump start. Buying the jump start was cheaper than buying the battery from Arizona battery. The one that lasted 9 years was a replacement battery for my jump start... But I don't think you can get it as a replacement part ant longer. It was only 15 dollars but took 3 months to get here. Good luck My answer is worth what you paid,, and I am sure someone else will have another opinion. Boyd Young On Jan 21, 2016 5:40 PM, "Nick Cassara" wrote: > > Kolbers, > > In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra .so, I am > wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium. > Thank you as always for your insights! > > Nick Cassara > Palmer, AK > PAAQ > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type From: Charlie England I'm still a little leery, too, from a safety standpoint. Even without the safety concerns, it's really hard to go from a ~$40 battery to a ~$200 battery to save maybe 10 lbs, unless weight is *really* critical. Charlie On 1/21/2016 6:49 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Nick C: > > I use, and have used for many years, an AGM lead acid battery. Works well for me. Is very reliable and serviceable for many years. Keep mine charged with a small solar charger that has a conditioner/maintainer capability. > > http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html > > Guess I am a tad old fashioned. I'll let others test fly the lithium batteries until they are refined enough I know they won't burst into flames while I am 90 miles from nowhere. ;-) > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Cassara > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 6:36 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type > > > Kolbers, > > In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.so, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium. > Thank you as always for your insights! > > Nick Cassara > Palmer, AK > PAAQ > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type From: Richard Girard Nick, It bothers me that the Li sellers like to talk about Pb equivalence rather than capacity. I've belonged to the AeroElectric Connection here on the Matronics Forums and so far no one has been able to say that they've tested an Li battery for capacity and had it equal an AGM lead acid battery. On average when the Li battery is subjected to a constant discharge, like when you lose an alternator, it has about 1/4 the capacity to keep things running. I don't recall what engine you're going to run on the Kolbra but if it's electrically dependant, ie doesn't have mags or dedicated ignition coils this lack of capacity is critical to safety of flight. And as for the weight, if it's that critical there are other ways to lose 10 lb. :-} Rick Girard PS when it comes to lead acid AGM, SLA, RG (in order Advanced Glass Mat, Starved Lead Acid, Recombinant Gas) are all names for the same kind of battery construction. Right now they are the pinnacle of lead acid batteries but as John notes you don't need to spend $100+ on a brand like Oddysey. I use the cheapest I can find, usually the type used for Uninterruptable power supplies. The $37 battery I put in my trike 8 years ago is still running strong. If you want to be safe, figure on a 2 year life, change it out and use the old battery for a motorcycle, snowmobile, emergency radio power supply, etc. That's only $20 a year to ensure you always have a top notch battery in your airplane. On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > I'm still a little leery, too, from a safety standpoint. > > Even without the safety concerns, it's really hard to go from a ~$40 > battery to a ~$200 battery to save maybe 10 lbs, unless weight is *really * > critical. > > Charlie > > On 1/21/2016 6:49 PM, John Hauck wrote: > >> >> Nick C: >> >> I use, and have used for many years, an AGM lead acid battery. Works >> well for me. Is very reliable and serviceable for many years. Keep min e >> charged with a small solar charger that has a conditioner/maintainer >> capability. >> >> http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html >> >> Guess I am a tad old fashioned. I'll let others test fly the lithium >> batteries until they are refined enough I know they won't burst into fla mes >> while I am 90 miles from nowhere. ;-) >> >> john h >> mkIII >> Titus, Alabama >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Cassara >> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 6:36 PM >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type >> >> >> Kolbers, >> >> In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra .so, I >> am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium. >> Thank you as always for your insights! >> >> Nick Cassara >> Palmer, AK >> PAAQ >> >> >> > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type From: Larry Cottrell http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&category _id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d& This is the one that I use and have a cheap float charger that I keep on it when I am not using. It has been in service for three years so far. The problem is if they are regularly discharged, the float takes care of that. Larry On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Nick Cassara wrote: > > Kolbers, > > In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra .so, I am > wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium. > Thank you as always for your insights! > > Nick Cassara > Palmer, AK > PAAQ > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:15 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type Spend 99.00. Replace the battery in 8 years. 12.00 and change a year. The url I posted is also offers free shipping. That is a 16 amp bat. Works well on a 912uls. On the other hand, I have the same capacity AGM battery powering the 5.5 kw Onan Generator in the back of my truck. Think it may be a Power Sonic, or some no-name brand Absorbed Glass Mat battery. It was cheaper, bought it locally, lives unprotected from the elements, 24/7. Cannot remember how many years I have been using that one. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:57 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type Nick, It bothers me that the Li sellers like to talk about Pb equivalence rather than capacity. I've belonged to the AeroElectric Connection here on the Matronics Forums and so far no one has been able to say that they've tested an Li battery for capacity and had it equal an AGM lead acid battery. On average when the Li battery is subjected to a constant discharge, like when you lose an alternator, it has about 1/4 the capacity to keep things running. I don't recall what engine you're going to run on the Kolbra but if it's electrically dependant, ie doesn't have mags or dedicated ignition coils this lack of capacity is critical to safety of flight. And as for the weight, if it's that critical there are other ways to lose 10 lb. :-} Rick Girard PS when it comes to lead acid AGM, SLA, RG (in order Advanced Glass Mat, Starved Lead Acid, Recombinant Gas) are all names for the same kind of battery construction. Right now they are the pinnacle of lead acid batteries but as John notes you don't need to spend $100+ on a brand like Oddysey. I use the cheapest I can find, usually the type used for Uninterruptable power supplies. The $37 battery I put in my trike 8 years ago is still running strong. If you want to be safe, figure on a 2 year life, change it out and use the old battery for a motorcycle, snowmobile, emergency radio power supply, etc. That's only $20 a year to ensure you always have a top notch battery in your airplane. On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Charlie England wrote: I'm still a little leery, too, from a safety standpoint. Even without the safety concerns, it's really hard to go from a ~$40 battery to a ~$200 battery to save maybe 10 lbs, unless weight is *really* critical. Charlie On 1/21/2016 6:49 PM, John Hauck wrote: Nick C: I use, and have used for many years, an AGM lead acid battery. Works well for me. Is very reliable and serviceable for many years. Keep mine charged with a small solar charger that has a conditioner/maintainer capability. http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html Guess I am a tad old fashioned. I'll let others test fly the lithium batteries until they are refined enough I know they won't burst into flames while I am 90 miles from nowhere. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Cassara Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 6:36 PM Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type Kolbers, In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.so, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium. Thank you as always for your insights! Nick Cassara Palmer, AK PAAQ br> fts!) r> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:24 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type Good price for an AGM battery, but the want 24.80 to mail it to hauck's holler. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage &product_id=58&category_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d& This is the one that I use and have a cheap float charger that I keep on it when I am not using. It has been in service for three years so far. The problem is if they are regularly discharged, the float takes care of that. Larry On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Nick Cassara wrote: Kolbers, In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.so, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium. Thank you as always for your insights! Nick Cassara Palmer, AK PAAQ br> fts!) r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant. 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