Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:49 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/28/16 (Lee)
2. 06:49 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (west1m)
3. 07:17 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Thumper)
4. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: 582 Radiator Advice (Richard Girard)
5. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: 582 Radiator Advice (John Hauck)
6. 09:46 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Bill Berle)
7. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Gary Aman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/28/16 |
Larry,
I used hydraulic mountain bike brakes on my Twinstar MKII. I used 2 brake
handles on the control stick and I can activate either side or both at the
same time with just my fingers. The cost was about $100. total. They hold
really well, I can power it up until it noses over. I did have to make all
the mounting hardware and it has to be accurate so it doesn't rub. I have
never used toe brakes and thought I would have a problem because I operate
out of a rough field and could picture my feet bouncing on and off the
brakes at just the wrong time.
Lee
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 PM - Hydraulic brakes? (Larry Cottrell)
2. 03:33 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Stuart Harner)
3. 04:11 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Larry Cottrell)
4. 05:32 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Herb)
5. 08:00 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (west1m)
6. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Larry Cottrell)
7. 08:34 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Stuart Harner)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:11:14 PM PST US
Subject: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
>
> I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my Firestar ll. I have
> looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. The only problem is that I want
> two
> hand operation. ( individual braking) It appears that will run about $500
> bucks or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might depending on the
> feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking. BCC is fine -
> lcottrell1020@gmail.com I only want to do this once, and I hate buyer
> remorse.
Larry
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 03:33:46 PM PST US
From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
Larry,
I have the Black Max setup on my Firefly. Individual toe brakes though,
not a hand brake. This included the wheels and tires and was purchased
as an option when I bought the kit.
Some people say you don=99t need brakes at all and especially not
individual brakes on the Firefly. As a general rule I don=99t use
them much. However, it is nice to be able to keep the engine RPM up and
still taxi at a reasonable speed on pavement or not move at all.
Occasionally I use them to help on a turn, although without a swiveling
tail wheel like you have the effect is not as noticeable. I am not sure
how you would rig the dual hand levers for individual brakes. One lever
on the stick and one on the throttle? J
Anyway, I have no regrets getting the Black Max setup. Easy to install
and simple in design.
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:11 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my Firestar ll. I
have looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. The only problem is that I
want two hand operation. ( individual braking) It appears that will run
about $500 bucks or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might
depending on the feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking.
BCC is fine - lcottrell1020@gmail.com I only want to do this once, and
I hate buyer remorse.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 04:11:51 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
Thanks for the reply. After checking I may have to forego the dual hand
brakes and stick with heel brakes. It would run about $550 for two separate
systems. I am using mechanical heel brakes now, and may have to stick with
that.
If you have not already braced the tail post on you fly, you should really
consider it.
Thanks again,
Larry
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
wrote:
> Larry,
>
>
> I have the Black Max setup on my Firefly. Individual toe brakes though,
> not a hand brake. This included the wheels and tires and was purchased as
> an option when I bought the kit.
>
>
> Some people say you don=99t need brakes at all and especially not i
ndividual
> brakes on the Firefly. As a general rule I don=99t use them much.
However,
> it is nice to be able to keep the engine RPM up and still taxi at a
> reasonable speed on pavement or not move at all.
>
>
> Occasionally I use them to help on a turn, although without a swiveling
> tail wheel like you have the effect is not as noticeable. I am not sure h
ow
> you would rig the dual hand levers for individual brakes. One lever on th
e
> stick and one on the throttle? J
>
>
> Anyway, I have no regrets getting the Black Max setup. Easy to install an
d
> simple in design.
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:11 PM
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
>
>
> I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my Firestar ll. I hav
e
> looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. The only problem is that I want t
wo
> hand operation. ( individual braking) It appears that will run about $500
> bucks or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might depending on th
e
> feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking. BCC is fine -
> lcottrell1020@gmail.com I only want to do this once, and I hate buyer
> remorse.
>
>
> Larry
>
>
> --
>
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 05:32:31 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
From: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
you can save most of that 550 dollars by using Mtn bike disc
brakes...either hydraulic or mechanical...Gotta be a bit mechanically
inclined...will need to make a couple of spools that attach the disc to
the rim...and a couple of adapter plates that attach the caliper to the
large washer that is welded to the axle... I found my mechanical
versions at the salvage yard...for maybe 5 bucks.... Requires some
design work...but was a good two day project...
Ebay has both styles...Herb
On 02/28/2016 06:11 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. After checking I may have to forego the dual
> hand brakes and stick with heel brakes. It would run about $550 for
> two separate systems. I am using mechanical heel brakes now, and may
> have to stick with that.
>
> If you have not already braced the tail post on you fly, you should
> really consider it.
>
> Thanks again,
> Larry
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net
> <mailto:stuart@harnerfarm.net>> wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> I have the Black Max setup on my Firefly. Individual toe brakes
> though, not a hand brake. This included the wheels and tires and
> was purchased as an option when I bought the kit.
>
> Some people say you dont need brakes at all and especially not
> individual brakes on the Firefly. As a general rule I dont use
> them much. However, it is nice to be able to keep the engine RPM
> up and still taxi at a reasonable speed on pavement or not move at
> all.
>
> Occasionally I use them to help on a turn, although without a
> swiveling tail wheel like you have the effect is not as
> noticeable. I am not sure how you would rig the dual hand levers
> for individual brakes. One lever on the stick and one on the
> throttle? J
>
> Anyway, I have no regrets getting the Black Max setup. Easy to
> install and simple in design.
>
> Stuart
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
> *Larry Cottrell
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:11 PM
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
>
> I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my
> Firestar ll. I have looked at O'brian and Black Max so far.
> The only problem is that I want two hand operation. (
> individual braking) It appears that will run about $500 bucks
> or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might depending
> on the feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking.
> BCC is fine - lcottrell1020@gmail.com
> <mailto:lcottrell1020@gmail.com> I only want to do this once,
> and I hate buyer remorse.
>
> Larry
>
> --
>
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./
>
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my
> email address before sending./
>
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and
turn
left.
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 08:00:32 PM PST US
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes?
From: "west1m" <west1m@hotmail.com>
I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my firefly. I use a dual hand
control by
the throttle. Quite handy, no regrets.
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 08:06:01 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes?
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
Do you remember the cost for dual controls?
Larry
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:59 PM, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my firefly. I use a dual hand
> control by the throttle. Quite handy, no regrets.
>
> --------
> West1m
> Hastings, MN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 08:34:43 PM PST US
From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
Yeah, that is on my =9Cto do=9D list for this spring before
flying season. I haven=99t settled on exactly how to do it yet.
Also need to cut out all the inspection holes and have a real good
look-see inside. About 15 hours in the air, I figure it is about time
for a new bird. Many other =9Clittle details=9D to attend
too as well. Weather is getting better every day
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
Thanks for the reply. After checking I may have to forego the dual hand
brakes and stick with heel brakes. It would run about $550 for two
separate systems. I am using mechanical heel brakes now, and may have to
stick with that.
If you have not already braced the tail post on you fly, you should
really consider it.
Thanks again,
Larry
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
wrote:
Larry,
I have the Black Max setup on my Firefly. Individual toe brakes though,
not a hand brake. This included the wheels and tires and was purchased
as an option when I bought the kit.
Some people say you don=99t need brakes at all and especially not
individual brakes on the Firefly. As a general rule I don=99t use
them much. However, it is nice to be able to keep the engine RPM up and
still taxi at a reasonable speed on pavement or not move at all.
Occasionally I use them to help on a turn, although without a swiveling
tail wheel like you have the effect is not as noticeable. I am not sure
how you would rig the dual hand levers for individual brakes. One lever
on the stick and one on the throttle? J
Anyway, I have no regrets getting the Black Max setup. Easy to install
and simple in design.
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:11 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes?
I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my Firestar ll. I
have looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. The only problem is that I
want two hand operation. ( individual braking) It appears that will run
about $500 bucks or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might
depending on the feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking.
BCC is fine - lcottrell1020@gmail.com I only want to do this once, and
I hate buyer remorse.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic brakes? |
I don't recall the cost, they came from Black Max.
Expensive but I wanted brakes flying off the blacktop all the time.
lcottrell wrote:
> Do you remember the cost for dual controls?Larry
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:59 PM, west1m wrote:
>
> >
> > I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my firefly. I use a dual hand control
by the throttle. Quite handy, no regrets.
> >
> > --------
> > West1m
> > Hastings, MN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > br> fts!)
> > r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > ==========
> > -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> > ==========
> > FORUMS -
> > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > b Site -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
>
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address
before sending.
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453285#453285
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic brakes? |
Larry
Try these for dual hydraulic hand brake actuators. I did something similar on
my old Firestar with the levers just in front of the seat between my legs. I
used Mt Bike brakes but this would work. This is similar to what we had on a
drifter in my hangar at one time and it worked excellent. And lots less than
500. Maybe buy the throttle like the one picture as part of this subject. Shop
around for the best price on 5" or 7" levers. Hagar is the brand. Good Luck
and I'll get out that way sometime.
https://www.cps-parts.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/lg/masterbrakecylinders_hegar.html
--------
Dennis Long
Oakland TN
2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser
Previously Kolb Mark IIIC, 94 Firestar, 84 Ultrastar.
700+hours since 1/1/2009
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453286#453286
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hagar_dual_master_cylinder_221.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Radiator Advice |
The twin radiator set up is designed for a tractor installation. They don't
work worth a damn on a pusher like the Kolb. On top of that they're meant
for a "C" gearbox mount AND Rotax wants over $800 for the complete kit.
There's a better way.
Somewhere in the archives is my report on a radiator that does work. It's
off a Honda Magna motorcycle, has the fittings in the right location and
can be had for anywhere from $25 to $200 so do your shopping on eBay.
How well does it work? I took off on a July afternoon when the thermometer
read 117 and climbed direct to 6,000 ft. Needle on the coolant temp meter
never came out of the green on a three and a half hour flight. I almost
boiled over but the engine never came close.
Rick Girard
PS You'll notice that there's two different systems pictured. Worked
perfectly both times.
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:43 PM, tomb2b <ferreeb2b@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would go with the twin rotax rads less wait they cool it the right way.
..
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453245#453245
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Radiator Advice |
Rick G/Kolbers:
Only problem I had with my twin radiator set up on my 582 powered MKIII
was the price. Worked fine for me the short 224 hours I flew that
engine.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 582 Radiator Advice
The twin radiator set up is designed for a tractor installation. They
don't work worth a damn on a pusher like the Kolb. On top of that
they're meant for a "C" gearbox mount AND Rotax wants over $800 for the
complete kit. There's a better way.
Somewhere in the archives is my report on a radiator that does work.
It's off a Honda Magna motorcycle, has the fittings in the right
location and can be had for anywhere from $25 to $200 so do your
shopping on eBay.
How well does it work? I took off on a July afternoon when the
thermometer read 117 and climbed direct to 6,000 ft. Needle on the
coolant temp meter never came out of the green on a three and a half
hour flight. I almost boiled over but the engine never came close.
Rick Girard
PS You'll notice that there's two different systems pictured. Worked
perfectly both times.
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:43 PM, tomb2b <ferreeb2b@gmail.com> wrote:
I would go with the twin rotax rads less wait they cool it the right
way...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453245#453245
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> Groucho Marx
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic brakes? |
If your feet could bounce off the pedals in a rough field, then make a little loop
out of nylon webbing (from a broken ratchet strap or something) and tie it
to the pedal. Put your foot into this loop and use it like a stirrup. Adjust
the size and location of the loop so that it only goes around your toes, so it
cannot trip you getting out of the cockpit. Tie it to the pedal system in a location
that allows you to move your foot to activate the brakes.
Problem solved, cost zero.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/29/16, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, February 29, 2016, 6:49 AM
"west1m" <west1m@hotmail.com>
I don't recall the cost, they came from Black Max.
Expensive but I wanted brakes flying off the blacktop all
the time.
lcottrell wrote:
> Do you remember the cost for dual controls?Larry
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:59 PM, west1m wrote:
>
> >
> > I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my
firefly. I use a dual hand control by the throttle. Quite
handy, no regrets.
> >
> > --------
> > West1m
> > Hastings, MN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > br> fts!)
> > r> > w.buildersbooks.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > -Matt Dralle, List
Admin.
> > ==========
> > -List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> > ==========
> >FORUMS -
> > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > b Site -
> > -Matt Dralle, List
Admin.
> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who
are intolerant.
>
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please
remove my email address before sending.
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453285#453285
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic brakes? |
If it's that rough your tires aren't on the ground either.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> If your feet could bounce off the pedals in a rough field, then make a little
loop out of nylon webbing (from a broken ratchet strap or something) and tie
it to the pedal. Put your foot into this loop and use it like a stirrup. Adjust
the size and location of the loop so that it only goes around your toes, so
it cannot trip you getting out of the cockpit. Tie it to the pedal system in a
location that allows you to move your foot to activate the brakes.
>
> Problem solved, cost zero.
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 2/29/16, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes?
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, February 29, 2016, 6:49 AM
>
> "west1m" <west1m@hotmail.com>
>
> I don't recall the cost, they came from Black Max.
> Expensive but I wanted brakes flying off the blacktop all
> the time.
>
>
>
> lcottrell wrote:
>> Do you remember the cost for dual controls?Larry
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:59 PM, west1m wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my
> firefly. I use a dual hand control by the throttle. Quite
> handy, no regrets.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> West1m
>>> Hastings, MN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278
> (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> br> fts!)
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who
> are intolerant.
>>
>>
>> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please
> remove my email address before sending.
>
>
> --------
> West1m
> Hastings, MN
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453285#453285
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lists This Month --
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