---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/29/16: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:49 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/28/16 (Lee) 2. 06:49 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (west1m) 3. 07:17 AM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Thumper) 4. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: 582 Radiator Advice (Richard Girard) 5. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: 582 Radiator Advice (John Hauck) 6. 09:46 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Bill Berle) 7. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Gary Aman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:02 AM PST US From: "Lee" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/28/16 Larry, I used hydraulic mountain bike brakes on my Twinstar MKII. I used 2 brake handles on the control stick and I can activate either side or both at the same time with just my fingers. The cost was about $100. total. They hold really well, I can power it up until it noses over. I did have to make all the mounting hardware and it has to be accurate so it doesn't rub. I have never used toe brakes and thought I would have a problem because I operate out of a rough field and could picture my feet bouncing on and off the brakes at just the wrong time. Lee Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 PM - Hydraulic brakes? (Larry Cottrell) 2. 03:33 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Stuart Harner) 3. 04:11 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Larry Cottrell) 4. 05:32 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Herb) 5. 08:00 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (west1m) 6. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Larry Cottrell) 7. 08:34 PM - Re: Hydraulic brakes? (Stuart Harner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:14 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? From: Larry Cottrell > > I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my Firestar ll. I have > looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. The only problem is that I want > two > hand operation. ( individual braking) It appears that will run about $500 > bucks or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might depending on the > feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking. BCC is fine - > lcottrell1020@gmail.com I only want to do this once, and I hate buyer > remorse. Larry -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:46 PM PST US From: "Stuart Harner" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? Larry, I have the Black Max setup on my Firefly. Individual toe brakes though, not a hand brake. This included the wheels and tires and was purchased as an option when I bought the kit. Some people say you don=99t need brakes at all and especially not individual brakes on the Firefly. As a general rule I don=99t use them much. However, it is nice to be able to keep the engine RPM up and still taxi at a reasonable speed on pavement or not move at all. Occasionally I use them to help on a turn, although without a swiveling tail wheel like you have the effect is not as noticeable. I am not sure how you would rig the dual hand levers for individual brakes. One lever on the stick and one on the throttle? J Anyway, I have no regrets getting the Black Max setup. Easy to install and simple in design. Stuart From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:11 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my Firestar ll. I have looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. The only problem is that I want two hand operation. ( individual braking) It appears that will run about $500 bucks or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might depending on the feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking. BCC is fine - lcottrell1020@gmail.com I only want to do this once, and I hate buyer remorse. Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? From: Larry Cottrell Thanks for the reply. After checking I may have to forego the dual hand brakes and stick with heel brakes. It would run about $550 for two separate systems. I am using mechanical heel brakes now, and may have to stick with that. If you have not already braced the tail post on you fly, you should really consider it. Thanks again, Larry On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Stuart Harner wrote: > Larry, > > > I have the Black Max setup on my Firefly. Individual toe brakes though, > not a hand brake. This included the wheels and tires and was purchased as > an option when I bought the kit. > > > Some people say you don=99t need brakes at all and especially not i ndividual > brakes on the Firefly. As a general rule I don=99t use them much. However, > it is nice to be able to keep the engine RPM up and still taxi at a > reasonable speed on pavement or not move at all. > > > Occasionally I use them to help on a turn, although without a swiveling > tail wheel like you have the effect is not as noticeable. I am not sure h ow > you would rig the dual hand levers for individual brakes. One lever on th e > stick and one on the throttle? J > > > Anyway, I have no regrets getting the Black Max setup. Easy to install an d > simple in design. > > > Stuart > > > *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:11 PM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? > > > I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my Firestar ll. I hav e > looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. The only problem is that I want t wo > hand operation. ( individual braking) It appears that will run about $500 > bucks or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might depending on th e > feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking. BCC is fine - > lcottrell1020@gmail.com I only want to do this once, and I hate buyer > remorse. > > > Larry > > > -- > > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.* > > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? From: Herb you can save most of that 550 dollars by using Mtn bike disc brakes...either hydraulic or mechanical...Gotta be a bit mechanically inclined...will need to make a couple of spools that attach the disc to the rim...and a couple of adapter plates that attach the caliper to the large washer that is welded to the axle... I found my mechanical versions at the salvage yard...for maybe 5 bucks.... Requires some design work...but was a good two day project... Ebay has both styles...Herb On 02/28/2016 06:11 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > Thanks for the reply. After checking I may have to forego the dual > hand brakes and stick with heel brakes. It would run about $550 for > two separate systems. I am using mechanical heel brakes now, and may > have to stick with that. > > If you have not already braced the tail post on you fly, you should > really consider it. > > Thanks again, > Larry > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Stuart Harner > wrote: > > Larry, > > I have the Black Max setup on my Firefly. Individual toe brakes > though, not a hand brake. This included the wheels and tires and > was purchased as an option when I bought the kit. > > Some people say you dont need brakes at all and especially not > individual brakes on the Firefly. As a general rule I dont use > them much. However, it is nice to be able to keep the engine RPM > up and still taxi at a reasonable speed on pavement or not move at > all. > > Occasionally I use them to help on a turn, although without a > swiveling tail wheel like you have the effect is not as > noticeable. I am not sure how you would rig the dual hand levers > for individual brakes. One lever on the stick and one on the > throttle? J > > Anyway, I have no regrets getting the Black Max setup. Easy to > install and simple in design. > > Stuart > > *From:*owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of > *Larry Cottrell > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:11 PM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? > > I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my > Firestar ll. I have looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. > The only problem is that I want two hand operation. ( > individual braking) It appears that will run about $500 bucks > or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might depending > on the feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking. > BCC is fine - lcottrell1020@gmail.com > I only want to do this once, > and I hate buyer remorse. > > Larry > > -- > > /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./ > > /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my > email address before sending./ > > > -- > /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./ > / > / > /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending./ -- Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:32 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes? From: "west1m" I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my firefly. I use a dual hand control by the throttle. Quite handy, no regrets. -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes? From: Larry Cottrell Do you remember the cost for dual controls? Larry On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:59 PM, west1m wrote: > > I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my firefly. I use a dual hand > control by the throttle. Quite handy, no regrets. > > -------- > West1m > Hastings, MN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278 > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:43 PM PST US From: "Stuart Harner" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? Yeah, that is on my =9Cto do=9D list for this spring before flying season. I haven=99t settled on exactly how to do it yet. Also need to cut out all the inspection holes and have a real good look-see inside. About 15 hours in the air, I figure it is about time for a new bird. Many other =9Clittle details=9D to attend too as well. Weather is getting better every day Stuart From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? Thanks for the reply. After checking I may have to forego the dual hand brakes and stick with heel brakes. It would run about $550 for two separate systems. I am using mechanical heel brakes now, and may have to stick with that. If you have not already braced the tail post on you fly, you should really consider it. Thanks again, Larry On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Stuart Harner wrote: Larry, I have the Black Max setup on my Firefly. Individual toe brakes though, not a hand brake. This included the wheels and tires and was purchased as an option when I bought the kit. Some people say you don=99t need brakes at all and especially not individual brakes on the Firefly. As a general rule I don=99t use them much. However, it is nice to be able to keep the engine RPM up and still taxi at a reasonable speed on pavement or not move at all. Occasionally I use them to help on a turn, although without a swiveling tail wheel like you have the effect is not as noticeable. I am not sure how you would rig the dual hand levers for individual brakes. One lever on the stick and one on the throttle? J Anyway, I have no regrets getting the Black Max setup. Easy to install and simple in design. Stuart From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:11 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Hydraulic brakes? I am considering changing to a Hydraulic system for my Firestar ll. I have looked at O'brian and Black Max so far. The only problem is that I want two hand operation. ( individual braking) It appears that will run about $500 bucks or more. Somehow I hate to do that, but still might depending on the feed back I can get from those using hydraulic braking. BCC is fine - lcottrell1020@gmail.com I only want to do this once, and I hate buyer remorse. Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:30 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes? From: "west1m" I don't recall the cost, they came from Black Max. Expensive but I wanted brakes flying off the blacktop all the time. lcottrell wrote: > Do you remember the cost for dual controls?Larry > > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:59 PM, west1m wrote: > > > > > I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my firefly. I use a dual hand control by the throttle. Quite handy, no regrets. > > > > -------- > > West1m > > Hastings, MN > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > > br> fts!) > > r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > ========== > > -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > ========== > > FORUMS - > > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > b Site - > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant. > > > If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453285#453285 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:30 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes? From: "Thumper" Larry Try these for dual hydraulic hand brake actuators. I did something similar on my old Firestar with the levers just in front of the seat between my legs. I used Mt Bike brakes but this would work. This is similar to what we had on a drifter in my hangar at one time and it worked excellent. And lots less than 500. Maybe buy the throttle like the one picture as part of this subject. Shop around for the best price on 5" or 7" levers. Hagar is the brand. Good Luck and I'll get out that way sometime. https://www.cps-parts.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/lg/masterbrakecylinders_hegar.html -------- Dennis Long Oakland TN 2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser Previously Kolb Mark IIIC, 94 Firestar, 84 Ultrastar. 700+hours since 1/1/2009 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453286#453286 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/hagar_dual_master_cylinder_221.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 582 Radiator Advice From: Richard Girard The twin radiator set up is designed for a tractor installation. They don't work worth a damn on a pusher like the Kolb. On top of that they're meant for a "C" gearbox mount AND Rotax wants over $800 for the complete kit. There's a better way. Somewhere in the archives is my report on a radiator that does work. It's off a Honda Magna motorcycle, has the fittings in the right location and can be had for anywhere from $25 to $200 so do your shopping on eBay. How well does it work? I took off on a July afternoon when the thermometer read 117 and climbed direct to 6,000 ft. Needle on the coolant temp meter never came out of the green on a three and a half hour flight. I almost boiled over but the engine never came close. Rick Girard PS You'll notice that there's two different systems pictured. Worked perfectly both times. On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:43 PM, tomb2b wrote: > > I would go with the twin rotax rads less wait they cool it the right way. .. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453245#453245 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:20 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: 582 Radiator Advice Rick G/Kolbers: Only problem I had with my twin radiator set up on my 582 powered MKIII was the price. Worked fine for me the short 224 hours I flew that engine. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 582 Radiator Advice The twin radiator set up is designed for a tractor installation. They don't work worth a damn on a pusher like the Kolb. On top of that they're meant for a "C" gearbox mount AND Rotax wants over $800 for the complete kit. There's a better way. Somewhere in the archives is my report on a radiator that does work. It's off a Honda Magna motorcycle, has the fittings in the right location and can be had for anywhere from $25 to $200 so do your shopping on eBay. How well does it work? I took off on a July afternoon when the thermometer read 117 and climbed direct to 6,000 ft. Needle on the coolant temp meter never came out of the green on a three and a half hour flight. I almost boiled over but the engine never came close. Rick Girard PS You'll notice that there's two different systems pictured. Worked perfectly both times. On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:43 PM, tomb2b wrote: I would go with the twin rotax rads less wait they cool it the right way... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453245#453245 br> fts!) r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:12 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes? If your feet could bounce off the pedals in a rough field, then make a little loop out of nylon webbing (from a broken ratchet strap or something) and tie it to the pedal. Put your foot into this loop and use it like a stirrup. Adjust the size and location of the loop so that it only goes around your toes, so it cannot trip you getting out of the cockpit. Tie it to the pedal system in a location that allows you to move your foot to activate the brakes. Problem solved, cost zero. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 2/29/16, west1m wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes? To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, February 29, 2016, 6:49 AM "west1m" I don't recall the cost, they came from Black Max. Expensive but I wanted brakes flying off the blacktop all the time. lcottrell wrote: > Do you remember the cost for dual controls?Larry > > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:59 PM, west1m wrote: > > > > > I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my firefly. I use a dual hand control by the throttle. Quite handy, no regrets. > > > > -------- > > West1m > > Hastings, MN > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > > br> fts!) > > r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > ========== > > -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > ========== > >FORUMS - > > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > b Site - > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant. > > > If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453285#453285 Lists This Month -- Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) Raiser. Click on more about Gifts provided www.buildersbooks.com -Matt Dralle, List Admin. Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes? From: Gary Aman If it's that rough your tires aren't on the ground either. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 29, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > > > If your feet could bounce off the pedals in a rough field, then make a little loop out of nylon webbing (from a broken ratchet strap or something) and tie it to the pedal. Put your foot into this loop and use it like a stirrup. Adjust the size and location of the loop so that it only goes around your toes, so it cannot trip you getting out of the cockpit. Tie it to the pedal system in a location that allows you to move your foot to activate the brakes. > > Problem solved, cost zero. > > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 2/29/16, west1m wrote: > > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hydraulic brakes? > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, February 29, 2016, 6:49 AM > > "west1m" > > I don't recall the cost, they came from Black Max. > Expensive but I wanted brakes flying off the blacktop all > the time. > > > > lcottrell wrote: >> Do you remember the cost for dual controls?Larry >> >> >>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:59 PM, west1m wrote: >>> >>> >>> I put the Black Max hydraulic brakes on my > firefly. I use a dual hand control by the throttle. Quite > handy, no regrets. >>> >>> -------- >>> West1m >>> Hastings, MN >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278 > (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453278#453278) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> br> fts!) >>> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> -Matt Dralle, List > Admin. >>> ========== >>> -List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List > Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who > are intolerant. >> >> >> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please > remove my email address before sending. > > > -------- > West1m > Hastings, MN > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453285#453285 > > > > > > > > Lists This Month -- > Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) > Raiser. Click on > more about > Gifts provided > www.buildersbooks.com > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.