Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:18 AM - Sun and Fun 2016 (John Hauck)
2. 09:02 AM - Re: Sun and Fun 2016 (Dave Kulp)
3. 12:46 PM - Re: Short Field Landings (w0odi)
4. 01:57 PM - flap usage (kirk bellard)
5. 02:16 PM - Re: flap usage (Dennis Rowe)
6. 03:17 PM - Re: flap usage (Richard Girard)
7. 03:39 PM - Re: flap usage (Malcolm Brubaker)
8. 04:09 PM - Re: flap usage (B Young)
9. 04:24 PM - Re: flap usage (Bill Berle)
10. 06:53 PM - Please "unsubscribe me" (Larry Lukehart)
11. 07:00 PM - Re: Please "unsubscribe me" (Matt Dralle)
12. 07:07 PM - Re: Please "unsubscribe me" (Charlie England)
13. 08:36 PM - Re: flap usage (Stuart Harner)
14. 08:40 PM - Looking for 62" ish 3 blade prop (turbot)
Message 1
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Subject: | Sun and Fun 2016 |
Kolbers:
Despite the lack of enthusiasm for Sun and Fun this year, I hope to see a
bunch of you all down there. One year, early on, we had 15 or 20 Kolb folks
go out to eat dinner with us and Homer Kolb was there. Those were the good
old days. A lot of those good folks are no longer with us.
Heading out the door now to drive the 3 miles to Gantt International
Airport, then 420 sm to Lakeland. Should take 5 hours or less at 80 mph air
speed. Calling for a tail wind all the way today. Wind is north at 9 here
and north at 6 at Lakeland. I think it will be about the same all the way
down.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Sun and Fun 2016 |
Have a nice flight, John.
Dave Kulp
Do not archive
On 4/5/2016 11:18 AM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Kolbers:
>
> Despite the lack of enthusiasm for Sun and Fun this year, I hope to
> see a bunch of you all down there. One year, early on, we had 15 or
> 20 Kolb folks go out to eat dinner with us and Homer Kolb was there.
> Those were the good old days. A lot of those good folks are no longer
> with us.
>
> Heading out the door now to drive the 3 miles to Gantt International
> Airport, then 420 sm to Lakeland. Should take 5 hours or less at 80
> mph air speed. Calling for a tail wind all the way today. Wind is
> north at 9 here and north at 6 at Lakeland. I think it will be about
> the same all the way down.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Short Field Landings |
I thought it was an excellent video.. Thanks for sharing.. :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454583#454583
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New mark iiic owner, I have a 1700 ft grass strip with 60 ft trees. Is there
a recommended altitude when flaps should be taken out. I have stall speed of 30
MPH with flaps with take off weight at 750; that's seems slow, is my speed indicator
off
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454585#454585
Message 5
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I never use flaps on take off.
I fly from a 600' field but do not have trees at the ends.
I feel the flaps add too much drag for take offs.
I may be wrong.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, Rotax 670
> On Apr 5, 2016, at 4:57 PM, kirk bellard <k.bellard@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> New mark iiic owner, I have a 1700 ft grass strip with 60 ft trees. Is there
a recommended altitude when flaps should be taken out. I have stall speed of
30 MPH with flaps with take off weight at 750; that's seems slow, is my speed
indicator off
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454585#454585
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Dennis, One notch of flaps is what I call the Kolb automatic take off. You
don't move the stick at all, just hold it neutral and feed in full
throttle. The Mk III takes off from three in about 200 feet. The nose will
rise when you pull off the flaps so you will have to move the stick forward
a bit then. Give it a try. Bet you a quarter it becomes your new standard
take off technique.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
wrote:
>
> I never use flaps on take off.
> I fly from a 600' field but do not have trees at the ends.
> I feel the flaps add too much drag for take offs.
> I may be wrong.
>
> Dennis "Skid" Rowe
> Mk3, Rotax 670
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 2016, at 4:57 PM, kirk bellard <k.bellard@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > New mark iiic owner, I have a 1700 ft grass strip with 60 ft trees. I
s
> there a recommended altitude when flaps should be taken out. I have stall
> speed of 30 MPH with flaps with take off weight at 750; that's seems slow
,
> is my speed indicator off
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454585#454585
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
Message 7
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John just made it here at sun fun the flying is great tonight=C2-
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Richard Girard<aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote
: Dennis, One notch of flaps is what I call the Kolb automatic take off.
You don't move the stick at all, just hold it neutral and feed in full thro
ttle. The Mk III takes off from three in about 200 feet. The nose will rise
when you pull off the flaps so you will have to move the stick forward a b
it then. Give it a try. Bet you a quarter it becomes your new standard take
off technique.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> wrot
e:
I never use flaps on take off.
I fly from a 600' field but do not have trees at the ends.
I feel the flaps add too much drag for take offs.
I may be wrong.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, Rotax 670
> On Apr 5, 2016, at 4:57 PM, kirk bellard <k.bellard@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> New mark iiic owner,=C2- I have a 1700 ft grass strip with 60 ft trees.
=C2- Is there a recommended altitude when flaps should be taken out. I ha
ve stall speed of 30 MPH with flaps with take off weight at 750; that's see
ms slow, is my speed indicator off
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454585#454585
>
>
br>fts!)
r>>w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbo
oks.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
=C2-=C2-Groucho Marx
Message 8
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Dennis
I did a lot of testing with my Maliki. I did multiple tradeoffs with
no flaps, 20 deg flaps, and full 40 deg flaps. no flaps and 40 deg
flaps gave me almost identical results. clean I accelerated quicker,
full flaps I took off slower, but it took longer to accelerate.
20 deg flaps gave me the shortest takeoff. in the neighborhood of 15 to
20 percent shorter.
I have modified my flap handle, but have not been able to test yet.
in the 20 deg position I cut the notch both up and down about 5 deg in each
direction. the locked position is around 15 deg. and I can pull the
handle to about 25 deg without removing the handle from the center
notch. with more testing I'll pass on my results.
Boyd Young
Message 9
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Anyone interested in maximum STOL takeoff should try out the "pop" technique used
in larger STOL type aircraft. This would likely make a noticeable difference.
B Young is correct in saying the airplane accelerates faster with no flaps, but
it takes off at the slowest speed with flaps.
So what gives you the best of both worlds is to accelerate on the ground at the
fastest speed with no flaps,and upon reaching the minimum takeoff speed (with
flaps) you "pop" the flaps quickly from zero to the half or full deployment position.
I am not intimately familiar with the flap control on the Kolbs (my Firestar plans
do not show flaps). But ASSUMING that the flap control is able to be operated
by the pilot without distraction, the technique should work well.
The Piper Tri-Pacer pilot operating handbook indicates that using this technique
will reduce takeoff roll by 20-25%. The Kolb might do better than that because
flap deployment creates air flow disturbance around the prop, so it MIGHT have
an even larger effect.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/5/16, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flap usage
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016, 4:09 PM
Dennis
I did a lot of testing with my Maliki. I did
multiple tradeoffs with no flaps, 20 deg flaps, and full
40 deg flaps. no flaps and 40 deg flaps gave me almost
identical results. clean I accelerated quicker, full
flaps I took off slower, but it took longer to
accelerate.
20 deg flaps gave me the shortest takeoff. in the
neighborhood of 15 to 20 percent shorter.
I have modified my flap handle, but have not
been able to test yet.
in the 20 deg position I cut the notch both up
and down about 5 deg in each direction. the locked
position is around 15 deg. and I can pull the handle to
about 25 deg without removing the handle from the center
notch. with more testing I'll pass on my
results.
Boyd Young
Message 10
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Subject: | Please "unsubscribe me" |
Thanks
Larry L.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Please "unsubscribe me" |
At 06:53 PM 4/5/2016 Tuesday, you wrote:
>Thanks
>
>Larry L.
Done.
Matt
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Please "unsubscribe me" |
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Message 13
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I used to do that in my old '63 Cherokee 180. Full throttle, 60MPH grab the "Johnson
Bar" and yank in two notches of flaps with the right hand while hauling
back on the yoke with the left. The old girl would leap 40 or 50 feet into the
air. Shove the nose over to maintain airspeed while slowly retracting the flaps
and pulling the nose up at 65MPH indicated.
Great technique for short and/or soft fields.
I need way more takeoffs in the Firefly before I start trying different things.
No flap takeoffs are about 400'. I bet that can be reduced significantly with
practice and the right technique.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flap usage
Anyone interested in maximum STOL takeoff should try out the "pop" technique used
in larger STOL type aircraft. This would likely make a noticeable difference.
B Young is correct in saying the airplane accelerates faster with no flaps, but
it takes off at the slowest speed with flaps.
So what gives you the best of both worlds is to accelerate on the ground at the
fastest speed with no flaps,and upon reaching the minimum takeoff speed (with
flaps) you "pop" the flaps quickly from zero to the half or full deployment position.
I am not intimately familiar with the flap control on the Kolbs (my Firestar plans
do not show flaps). But ASSUMING that the flap control is able to be operated
by the pilot without distraction, the technique should work well.
The Piper Tri-Pacer pilot operating handbook indicates that using this technique
will reduce takeoff roll by 20-25%. The Kolb might do better than that because
flap deployment creates air flow disturbance around the prop, so it MIGHT have
an even larger effect.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/5/16, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flap usage
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016, 4:09 PM
Dennis
I did a lot of testing with my Maliki. I did multiple tradeoffs with no
flaps, 20 deg flaps, and full
40 deg flaps. no flaps and 40 deg flaps gave me almost identical results.
clean I accelerated quicker, full flaps I took off slower, but it took longer
to accelerate.
20 deg flaps gave me the shortest takeoff. in the neighborhood of 15 to 20
percent shorter. I have modified my flap handle, but have not been able to
test yet. in the 20 deg position I cut the notch both up and down about 5 deg
in each direction. the locked position is around 15 deg. and I can pull
the handle to about 25 deg without removing the handle from the center notch.
with more testing I'll pass on my results.
Boyd Young
Message 14
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Subject: | Looking for 62" ish 3 blade prop |
Good day all
Anyone have a 3 blade 62" ish diameter propeller they want to sell ?
Need it for a pusher rotax 582.
Let me know if you have one collecting dust
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454597#454597
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