---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/07/16: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:27 AM - Flap usage (Dennis Rowe) 2. 06:39 AM - Re: Flap usage (George Alexander) 3. 10:28 AM - Re: flap usage (James Swan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:42 AM PST US From: Dennis Rowe Subject: Kolb-List: Flap usage Morning, Thought I'd clarify that by saying "I never use flaps on take offs" in an earlier post, I did not mean to imply I never use flaps. In fact I rarely land without at least one notch and very often use full flaps. Love em. Sure makes getting into my tiny strip and stopped easy. I will experiment with one notch on take offs in the near future. As far as the mentioned technique of pulling a notch during take off to jump off the ground, I was also taught that in a Piper Cherokee while earning my private but have never felt the need to use that in the last 20 years. Maybe when we get the Cessna finished I'll revisit trying that. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk-3 Rotax 670 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:36 AM PST US From: George Alexander Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flap usage Watched John Hauck use this technique flying out of John Bickham's Nauga F ield. On Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:27 AM, Dennis Rowe wrote: SNIP As far as the mentioned technique of pulling a notch during take off to jum p off the ground, .=F0=9F=91=8D .SNIP Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk-3 Rotax 670 =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:57 AM PST US From: James Swan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flap usage full flaps on take apt to lead to nose over due to blockage of air over ele vators.... -----Original Message----- From: Rick Neilsen Sent: Wed, Apr 6, 2016 3:55 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flap usage Dennis Good to listen to people that have flown a Kolb with flaps. Kolbs are very light air planes which means they speed up and slow down much more quickly than a Cessna or Piper. I always use one notch of flaps on take off and landing. I used to pull one notch of flaps at the same time rotate for takeoff, then retract for climb out. Lately I just set one notch before takeoff and then retract for climb out. I found that my plane accelerates so quick and takes off at such a lo w speed that any reduced drag from having the flaps up is not measurable. My plane has the spring steel gear legs a bit longer than the original alum inum but not as long as the new tubular steel legs. With that configuratio n the flaps give me a higher effective angle of attack to get off the grou nd more quickly. I have never really measured the climb out with and withou t flaps. Using full flaps will only extend the takeoff. For landing I alway use one notch of flaps because I like the lower landing speed and reduced float after the flair. One notch also puts you at about the same pitch trim as you had with power. I have found that one notch of f laps with some power produces a landing approach just about the same as a d ead engine and no flaps. I also found that with no flaps I could get the ta il down first. This worked out real well when I had a forced landing in a b ean field. The tail acted like it was catching the arresting wire on a airc raft carrier. Yes use the flaps in a forced landing to get to the best land ing spot then retract them. I had a GA instructor jump all over me once whe n I told him I retraced my flaps just before landing when I had a forced la nding. He used words like, never never reduce flaps on approach. Hey it wor ks well in a Kolb. One more thing, get out there and practice with idle power extending flaps and pitching forward to keep your airspeed the same. Do this several times to full flaps and back keeping your airspeed pegged on one speed while watc hing the landing point change. Later if you have a forced landing you will have plenty of control with the flaps to get yourself down to a safe landin g spot. So when it gets real quiet pick a spot well within gliding range. S et up for landing a bit long and dial in flaps, don't lock them in a notch, moving them up and down as necessary. If you have to land in something sof t and/or deep it might just help to get the tail down first. Flaps tend to pitch you forward so you can't get the tail down first as easy. As always worth what you paid for it. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Patrick Ladd wro te: For what its worth I always used one notch of flap on my Xtra and took it o ff at 5/600 ft . Lowering flaps one notch doesn`t slow the plane worth a d amn.. No need to retrim when the flap comes off, you can easily hold the sp eed steady with the stick. At 500ft you should still be on the look out for a landing spot if the engine stops not fiddling with unimportant things in the cockpit. I usually climbed out in a long curve which would put my stri p under the wing as I turned downwind. That made it easy to put the nose do wn and get back to the strip if everything went quiet. I would retrim afte r throttling back to cruise speed at around 1200 feet by which time I was b ack overhead my strip with a known spot for starting any navigational calc ulations. All the while keeping a weather eye open for C 130 s doing drops at a field about 2 miles from my strip. Happy days. Pat From: Richard Girard Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flap usage Dennis, One notch of flaps is what I call the Kolb automatic take off. You don't move the stick at all, just hold it neutral and feed in full throttle . The Mk III takes off from three in about 200 feet. The nose will rise whe n you pull off the flaps so you will have to move the stick forward a bit t hen. Give it a try. Bet you a quarter it becomes your new standard take off technique. Rick Girard On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Dennis Rowe wrot e: --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dennis Rowe I never use flaps on take off. I fly from a 600' field but do not have trees at the ends. I feel the flaps add too much drag for take offs. I may be wrong. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, Rotax 670 > On Apr 5, 2016, at 4:57 PM, kirk bellard wrote: > > > New mark iiic owner, I have a 1700 ft grass strip with 60 ft trees. I s there a recommended altitude when flaps should be taken out. I have sta ll speed of 30 MPH with flaps with take off weight at 750; that's seems s low, is my speed indicator off > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454585#454585 > > br> fts!) r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.builde rsbooks.com rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Kolb-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.