Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:53 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/07/16 (Bob Green)
2. 08:43 AM - Re: flap usage (B Young)
3. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/07/16 (Rick Neilsen)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/07/16 |
Just reading the comments about flap use on take off and landing. Have not read
any statements about using flap retraction to allow the plane to settle to the
runway as a way to limit the plane from floating down the runway and using
up the runway. Once down to a foot or so above the runway the flaps can be retracted
on landing to shorten the landing. Definite coordination between elevator
control and flap retraction is absolutely necessary to keep nose attitude
correct. This procedure as well as extending the flaps to the full down position
once the aircraft has almost reached flying speed can shorten the take-off
roll. This works very well for very short take-offs, especially on rough fields.
There Must Be Care to Stay In Ground Effect Until Flying Airspeed Well
Established. These uses of flaps on landing and takeoff should not be the norm
but it is good that a pilot is aware and capable of flying his aircraft safely
using all the safe options.
Can be very useful when landing a plane on the colored dots at Oshkosh, but then
the Kolbs are not landing on 18 left and right or 36 left and right.
Lots of interesting input from vets like John Hauck.
Hope Sun-n-fun going well.
Bob
Mark3X with flaperons
Message 2
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Not sure if I should keep the same thread????
A few weeks back a pilot was taking off from a local airport, tried to get
off the ground at minimum flying speed. After taking off the plane came
back to earth, hitting on the nose wheel bending it back, He continued
the takeoff, it was noticed by a CFI in the pattern. The CFI told him
to circle the pattern till the fire dept, ambulance, and cops could get
there. After touching down,, Instead of keeping the nose off the ground as
long as possible, he hit the brakes and nosed it in and went off the
runway and flipped it over. Everyone walked away, but it could have been
worse...
Moral of the story,, if you are going to attempt takeoffs at below safe
flying speed by pulling flaps,,, just know the possible consequences.
In all honestly, I don't know if he pulled flaps, tried to climb out of
ground effect before getting proper speed, or or moved his eyes to find
the trim lever. Doesn't mater. He still has a busted up plane.
Boyd
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/07/16 |
Bob/All
We are getting a bunch of posts on flaps.
It appears we need to specify when we are talking about flaperons or flaps.
I have never flown a plane with flaperons.
I have never heard of raising flaps to shorten the float down the runway
with a Kolb, interesting. I have heard of faster/heaver airplanes raising
flaps and/or spoilers to get more weight on the breaking wheels during roll
out. I use one notch of flaps(conventional flaps) to shorten the float in
the air and would go to full flaps if I wanted to stop quicker. Most of our
planes have the wheels a bit aft of the normal tail dragger configuration
which limits brake usage. Would be interesting to test this in the real
world.
Just returned from Sun-N-Fun. The Kolb gang and John Hauck are doing well.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC(conventional flaps)
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Bob Green <bgreen@bimi.org> wrote:
>
> Just reading the comments about flap use on take off and landing. Have
> not read any statements about using flap retraction to allow the plane to
> settle to the runway as a way to limit the plane from floating down the
> runway and using up the runway. Once down to a foot or so above the runway
> the flaps can be retracted on landing to shorten the landing. Definite
> coordination between elevator control and flap retraction is absolutely
> necessary to keep nose attitude correct. This procedure as well as
> extending the flaps to the full down position once the aircraft has almost
> reached flying speed can shorten the take-off roll. This works very well
> for very short take-offs, especially on rough fields. There Must Be Care
> to Stay In Ground Effect Until Flying Airspeed Well Established. These
> uses of flaps on landing and takeoff should not be the norm but it is good
> that a pilot is aware and capable of flying his aircraft safely using all
> the safe options.
> Can be very useful when landing a plane on the colored dots at Oshkosh,
> but then the Kolbs are not landing on 18 left and right or 36 left and
> right.
> Lots of interesting input from vets like John Hauck.
> Hope Sun-n-fun going well.
> Bob
> Mark3X with flaperons
>
>
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