---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/08/16: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:53 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/07/16 (Bob Green) 2. 08:43 AM - Re: flap usage (B Young) 3. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/07/16 (Rick Neilsen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:24 AM PST US From: Bob Green Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/07/16 Just reading the comments about flap use on take off and landing. Have not read any statements about using flap retraction to allow the plane to settle to the runway as a way to limit the plane from floating down the runway and using up the runway. Once down to a foot or so above the runway the flaps can be retracted on landing to shorten the landing. Definite coordination between elevator control and flap retraction is absolutely necessary to keep nose attitude correct. This procedure as well as extending the flaps to the full down position once the aircraft has almost reached flying speed can shorten the take-off roll. This works very well for very short take-offs, especially on rough fields. There Must Be Care to Stay In Ground Effect Until Flying Airspeed Well Established. These uses of flaps on landing and takeoff should not be the norm but it is good that a pilot is aware and capable of flying his aircraft safely using all the safe options. Can be very useful when landing a plane on the colored dots at Oshkosh, but then the Kolbs are not landing on 18 left and right or 36 left and right. Lots of interesting input from vets like John Hauck. Hope Sun-n-fun going well. Bob Mark3X with flaperons ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flap usage From: B Young Not sure if I should keep the same thread???? A few weeks back a pilot was taking off from a local airport, tried to get off the ground at minimum flying speed. After taking off the plane came back to earth, hitting on the nose wheel bending it back, He continued the takeoff, it was noticed by a CFI in the pattern. The CFI told him to circle the pattern till the fire dept, ambulance, and cops could get there. After touching down,, Instead of keeping the nose off the ground as long as possible, he hit the brakes and nosed it in and went off the runway and flipped it over. Everyone walked away, but it could have been worse... Moral of the story,, if you are going to attempt takeoffs at below safe flying speed by pulling flaps,,, just know the possible consequences. In all honestly, I don't know if he pulled flaps, tried to climb out of ground effect before getting proper speed, or or moved his eyes to find the trim lever. Doesn't mater. He still has a busted up plane. Boyd ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/07/16 From: Rick Neilsen Bob/All We are getting a bunch of posts on flaps. It appears we need to specify when we are talking about flaperons or flaps. I have never flown a plane with flaperons. I have never heard of raising flaps to shorten the float down the runway with a Kolb, interesting. I have heard of faster/heaver airplanes raising flaps and/or spoilers to get more weight on the breaking wheels during roll out. I use one notch of flaps(conventional flaps) to shorten the float in the air and would go to full flaps if I wanted to stop quicker. Most of our planes have the wheels a bit aft of the normal tail dragger configuration which limits brake usage. Would be interesting to test this in the real world. Just returned from Sun-N-Fun. The Kolb gang and John Hauck are doing well. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC(conventional flaps) On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Bob Green wrote: > > Just reading the comments about flap use on take off and landing. Have > not read any statements about using flap retraction to allow the plane to > settle to the runway as a way to limit the plane from floating down the > runway and using up the runway. Once down to a foot or so above the runway > the flaps can be retracted on landing to shorten the landing. Definite > coordination between elevator control and flap retraction is absolutely > necessary to keep nose attitude correct. This procedure as well as > extending the flaps to the full down position once the aircraft has almost > reached flying speed can shorten the take-off roll. This works very well > for very short take-offs, especially on rough fields. There Must Be Care > to Stay In Ground Effect Until Flying Airspeed Well Established. These > uses of flaps on landing and takeoff should not be the norm but it is good > that a pilot is aware and capable of flying his aircraft safely using all > the safe options. > Can be very useful when landing a plane on the colored dots at Oshkosh, > but then the Kolbs are not landing on 18 left and right or 36 left and > right. > Lots of interesting input from vets like John Hauck. > Hope Sun-n-fun going well. > Bob > Mark3X with flaperons > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.