Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:00 AM - Re: Last Flight 2005/Alodine/Corrosion Prevention (John Hauck)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: Last Flight 2005 (Stuart Harner)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: Last Flight 2005 (Rick Neilsen)
4. 07:54 AM - Re: Last Flight 2005 (John Hauck)
5. 09:54 AM - Re: Last Flight 2005 (Charlie England)
6. 09:55 AM - Re: Last Flight 2005 (Herb)
7. 11:19 AM - Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (Herb)
8. 11:50 AM - Fourstar (Herb)
9. 11:59 AM - Re: Fourstar (Larry Cottrell)
10. 12:03 PM - Re: Fourstar (pcking)
11. 12:33 PM - Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (Bill Berle)
12. 12:37 PM - Re: Last Flight 2005 (Stuart Harner)
13. 12:45 PM - Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (B Young)
14. 01:06 PM - Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (John Hauck)
15. 01:07 PM - Re: Fourstar (Herb)
16. 01:17 PM - Re: Fourstar (Herb)
17. 01:20 PM - Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (Herb)
18. 01:24 PM - Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (Herb)
19. 01:27 PM - Firestar tail boom length... (Herb)
20. 01:44 PM - Re: Firestar tail boom length... (Herb)
21. 02:02 PM - Re: Last Flight 2005 (Leland.Lam)
22. 02:19 PM - Re: Firestar tail boom length... (Bill Berle)
23. 02:28 PM - Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (Richard Pike)
24. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (John Hauck)
25. 02:47 PM - Re: video (west1m)
26. 02:59 PM - Re: Last Flight 2005 (west1m)
27. 03:05 PM - Re: Firestar tail boom length... (Herb)
28. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (Greg Taylor)
29. 03:55 PM - Re: Firestar tail boom length... (Bill Berle)
30. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (Bill Berle)
31. 05:10 PM - Re: Firestar tail boom length... (Herb)
32. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... (Herb)
33. 06:04 PM - 447 Head bolt torque... (Herb)
34. 08:52 PM - Building an airplane quickly (David Kulp)
35. 11:39 PM - Re: Building an airplane quickly (Herb)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Last Flight 2005/Alodine/Corrosion Prevention |
Only thing I Alodine on my MKIII is the engine mounts for the 912. I do not paint
them. Initially, I did paint them and had a problem with lose engine mount
bolts when the primer and paint wore between the two surfaces.
Haven't found it necessary to use a corrosion preventive treatment on alclad aluminum
tubing.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Started on the stabilizers of my Firestar kit Saturday, got one side cut, fitted
and Clecoed, and was able to start cutting tubes for the second one. Does anyone
have a recommendation for or againsit using Alodine chemical conversion as
a no-weight corrosion preventive treatment on the aluminum tails?
Bill Berle
Message 2
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| Subject: | Last Flight 2005 |
Bill,
If the tubes are alclad, (I suspect they are) the alodine won't "stick" anyway.
After drilling all the holes in the hinges I got all set up to alodine them. Turned
out the only place it would take was the inside of the holes. The hinges
were either alclad or already alodined with clear chemical. The pretty gold colored
holes were quickly filled with stainless steel rivets so no one can see
anyway but I know they are protected. :)
You could do a test on a small piece of scrap tube to see what effect it has.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
" Kolbers:
December 2005, John Williamson, Gary Haley, Ken Korenik and I, flew the Texas
coast from Port Arthur to Brownsville. It was a lot of fun, as we low leveled
the beach the entire way. We camped out on the airports. Miss those days.
john hmkIIITitus,
Alabama"
Beautiful! What great adventures you have had with this aircraft, congratulations.
I hope I'm able to have half as much fun with mine.
Started on the stabilizers of my Firestar kit Saturday, got one side cut, fitted
and Clecoed, and was able to start cutting tubes for the second one. Does anyone
have a recommendation for or againsit using Alodine chemical conversion as
a no-weight corrosion preventive treatment on the aluminum tails?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 4/11/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, April 11, 2016, 4:34 PM
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Last Flight 2005 |
John
That was such a great photo. John W used to give me a rough time about how
wide a formation I would fly with you guys. You even got Gary H to move in
real tight. I missed Gary at Sun N Fun this year. Ken took a great photo.
Got talking about Monument Valley with the wife. She never saw the area. We
are going to take a side trip up there while visiting my mother in AZ this
year. Sure was neat seeing MV with all the Kolb people and planes at the
annual Kolb fly in. Do you think we will ever be able to get the new
generation of Kolb guys to gather like that.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:34 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> Kolbers:
>
>
> December 2005, John Williamson, Gary Haley, Ken Korenik and I, flew the
> Texas coast from Port Arthur to Brownsville. It was a lot of fun, as we
> low leveled the beach the entire way. We camped out on the airports. Miss
> those days.
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Last Flight 2005 |
>From 2003 to 2010, the Kolb Gang did not know what a great thing we had
going. Yeah, we knew it was great, and it kept getting better until the
end.
If someone wanted to do it again, I might be able to get these old bones
out there. I did fly into and spend the night in the pilot's lounge at
MV, Sep 2014. Wasn't the same without the Kolb Gang though, but just as
beautiful and mysterious. I love the place, the Navajos, and the
excitement of flying to and meeting there.
Right now I don't know of anyone who is making long or short cross
country flights in Kolbs.
I've been back a number of times since, on the ground. Still like it
always was.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
John
That was such a great photo. John W used to give me a rough time about
how wide a formation I would fly with you guys. You even got Gary H to
move in real tight. I missed Gary at Sun N Fun this year. Ken took a
great photo.
Got talking about Monument Valley with the wife. She never saw the area.
We are going to take a side trip up there while visiting my mother in AZ
this year. Sure was neat seeing MV with all the Kolb people and planes
at the annual Kolb fly in. Do you think we will ever be able to get the
new generation of Kolb guys to gather like that.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Last Flight 2005 |
Stuart,
Not meaning to take a poke at you personally, but... Alodine doesn't
'stick' to the aluminum. It is a 'conversion' process. It basically
corrodes the microscopic top layer of the aluminum, forming an
'converted' (basically a modified oxide) layer that prevents further
corrosion of the underlying aluminum. (Very non-tech, layman's description)
Alodine works fine on alclad (typically 2024 alloy with pure aluminum
coating to protect the corrosion prone 2024), and also works fine on
6061 alloy which doesn't need the alclad to protect it. I can personally
testify to it working on both, because both alloys are used in the RV-7
I'm building, and I've personally treated both alloys successfully.
The hinges you attempted to treat were almost certainly 6061 or similar
alloy, without any cladding. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that you
didn't get the surface perfectly clean and free of oils/other
contamination, and/or you didn't properly acid etch the parts prior to
the treatment attempt. All aluminum has a layer of corrosion on its
surface, if it's been exposed to air for more than a few minutes. The
alodine cannot 'convert' this layer of oxide; it can only work on
aluminum itself. It cannot work through any contaminants, either. The
likely reason you got conversion in the holes and not the surface is
that the act of drilling the holes removed the contaminants and the
corrosion layer.
I don't know what alloys are used in Kolbs, but I'd bet that any
extruded parts (angle, plate, etc) are 6061 and tubing is also 6061,
except for non-structural stuff like aluminum fuel line, which is
usually 3000 series alloy. Aluminum sheet could be either 6061 or 2024,
but is probably 6061.
6061 is pretty corrosion resistant, so unless the plane will be tied
down outside or lives near salt water, alodine might not be *needed*,
but it never hurts.
With 2024, the alodine process provides an extra 'layer' of protection
in addition to the alclad.
Tests have shown that alodine provides as much protection from corrosion
as the best epoxies or any other actual paint/coating process.
FWIW,
Charlie
On 4/12/2016 8:49 AM, Stuart Harner wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> If the tubes are alclad, (I suspect they are) the alodine won't "stick" anyway.
>
> After drilling all the holes in the hinges I got all set up to alodine them.
Turned out the only place it would take was the inside of the holes. The hinges
were either alclad or already alodined with clear chemical. The pretty gold
colored holes were quickly filled with stainless steel rivets so no one can see
anyway but I know they are protected. :)
>
> You could do a test on a small piece of scrap tube to see what effect it has.
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:04 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
>
>
> " Kolbers:
> December 2005, John Williamson, Gary Haley, Ken Korenik and I, flew the Texas
coast from Port Arthur to Brownsville. It was a lot of fun, as we low leveled
the beach the entire way. We camped out on the airports. Miss those
days.
> john hmkIIITitus,
> Alabama"
>
> Beautiful! What great adventures you have had with this aircraft, congratulations.
I hope I'm able to have half as much fun with mine.
>
> Started on the stabilizers of my Firestar kit Saturday, got one side cut, fitted
and Clecoed, and was able to start cutting tubes for the second one. Does
anyone have a recommendation for or againsit using Alodine chemical conversion
as a no-weight corrosion preventive treatment on the aluminum tails?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 4/11/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Last Flight 2005 |
6061-T6 is not alclad.... 2024-t? is alclad...meaning...that at the
mill..the ingot is covered on both sides with a plate of nearly pure
aluminum... then sent down the rolling mill...the ingot is rolled into
ever thinning sheet...starting with an ingot of nearly 2 feet thick and
maybe 12 feet long? Comes out the other end and is rolled into a spool
several thousand feet long..depending on the final thickness.
the reason to clad 2024 is because of its considerable copper content...
Eventually planes with 2024 sheet, if polished too much , will wear
through back to the 2024 base metal... Herb
On 04/12/2016 08:49 AM, Stuart Harner wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> If the tubes are alclad, (I suspect they are) the alodine won't "stick" anyway.
>
> After drilling all the holes in the hinges I got all set up to alodine them.
Turned out the only place it would take was the inside of the holes. The hinges
were either alclad or already alodined with clear chemical. The pretty gold
colored holes were quickly filled with stainless steel rivets so no one can see
anyway but I know they are protected. :)
>
> You could do a test on a small piece of scrap tube to see what effect it has.
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:04 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
>
>
> " Kolbers:
> December 2005, John Williamson, Gary Haley, Ken Korenik and I, flew the Texas
coast from Port Arthur to Brownsville. It was a lot of fun, as we low leveled
the beach the entire way. We camped out on the airports. Miss those
days.
> john hmkIIITitus,
> Alabama"
>
> Beautiful! What great adventures you have had with this aircraft, congratulations.
I hope I'm able to have half as much fun with mine.
>
> Started on the stabilizers of my Firestar kit Saturday, got one side cut, fitted
and Clecoed, and was able to start cutting tubes for the second one. Does
anyone have a recommendation for or againsit using Alodine chemical conversion
as a no-weight corrosion preventive treatment on the aluminum tails?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 4/11/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, April 11, 2016, 4:34 PM
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
Yep...the only reason to clad 2024 has to do with the inevitable
corrosion of the high copper content of the alloy..
6061 has a considerable content of Magnesium and Manganese... and
the base metal oxidizes to form the protective barrier...which suffices
on our Kolbs... Most of it is mill marked with Chandler Aluminum in
Arizona and with the 6061 t6 designation...
I rebuilt a 20 some year old Ultrastar wreck...and the good parts
were as sound as a current model... even the steel rivets used back
then were serviceable...and much easier to drill out... the feared
galvanic effect is not a worry IMHO!! At least over the life of our
planes, based on that experience..
I worked at Kaiser Aluminum for a time...in the lab and on the floor
at all stages of aluminum production..but my memory is vague now... Herb
On 04/12/2016 11:56 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> Stuart,
>
> Not meaning to take a poke at you personally, but... Alodine doesn't
> 'stick' to the aluminum. It is a 'conversion' process. It basically
> corrodes the microscopic top layer of the aluminum, forming an
> 'converted' (basically a modified oxide) layer that prevents further
> corrosion of the underlying aluminum. (Very non-tech, layman's
> description)
>
> Alodine works fine on alclad (typically 2024 alloy with pure aluminum
> coating to protect the corrosion prone 2024), and also works fine on
> 6061 alloy which doesn't need the alclad to protect it. I can
> personally testify to it working on both, because both alloys are used
> in the RV-7 I'm building, and I've personally treated both alloys
> successfully.
>
> The hinges you attempted to treat were almost certainly 6061 or
> similar alloy, without any cladding. If I were a betting man, I'd bet
> that you didn't get the surface perfectly clean and free of oils/other
> contamination, and/or you didn't properly acid etch the parts prior to
> the treatment attempt. All aluminum has a layer of corrosion on its
> surface, if it's been exposed to air for more than a few minutes. The
> alodine cannot 'convert' this layer of oxide; it can only work on
> aluminum itself. It cannot work through any contaminants, either. The
> likely reason you got conversion in the holes and not the surface is
> that the act of drilling the holes removed the contaminants and the
> corrosion layer.
>
> I don't know what alloys are used in Kolbs, but I'd bet that any
> extruded parts (angle, plate, etc) are 6061 and tubing is also 6061,
> except for non-structural stuff like aluminum fuel line, which is
> usually 3000 series alloy. Aluminum sheet could be either 6061 or
> 2024, but is probably 6061.
>
> 6061 is pretty corrosion resistant, so unless the plane will be tied
> down outside or lives near salt water, alodine might not be *needed*,
> but it never hurts.
>
> With 2024, the alodine process provides an extra 'layer' of protection
> in addition to the alclad.
>
> Tests have shown that alodine provides as much protection from
> corrosion as the best epoxies or any other actual paint/coating process.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Charlie
>
> On 4/12/2016 8:49 AM, Stuart Harner wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> If the tubes are alclad, (I suspect they are) the alodine won't
>> "stick" anyway.
>>
>> After drilling all the holes in the hinges I got all set up to
>> alodine them. Turned out the only place it would take was the inside
>> of the holes. The hinges were either alclad or already alodined with
>> clear chemical. The pretty gold colored holes were quickly filled
>> with stainless steel rivets so no one can see anyway but I know they
>> are protected. :)
>>
>> You could do a test on a small piece of scrap tube to see what effect
>> it has.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:04 PM
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
>>
>>
>> " Kolbers:
>> December 2005, John Williamson, Gary Haley, Ken Korenik and I,
>> flew the Texas coast from Port Arthur to Brownsville. It was a lot
>> of fun, as we low leveled the beach the entire way. We camped out on
>> the airports. Miss those days.
>> john hmkIIITitus,
>> Alabama"
>>
>> Beautiful! What great adventures you have had with this aircraft,
>> congratulations. I hope I'm able to have half as much fun with mine.
>>
>> Started on the stabilizers of my Firestar kit Saturday, got one side
>> cut, fitted and Clecoed, and was able to start cutting tubes for the
>> second one. Does anyone have a recommendation for or againsit using
>> Alodine chemical conversion as a no-weight corrosion preventive
>> treatment on the aluminum tails?
>>
>> Bill Berle
>> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light
>> aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for
>> non-profit and for-profit entities
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Mon, 4/11/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 8
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Wondering how many have seen this...? Called the Fourstar...one of a
kind...Bill Bronson of the St. Louis area designed and built it using
Firestar parts...
I have enough parts to build it...and the less than 2 gal an hour
consumption of my Global engine is desirable...
With my memory...may have sent this before...?? Herb
Message 9
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Does it count that it is Ugly?
Larry
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> Wondering how many have seen this...? Called the Fourstar...one of a
> kind...Bill Bronson of the St. Louis area designed and built it using
> Firestar parts...
>
> I have enough parts to build it...and the less than 2 gal an hour
> consumption of my Global engine is desirable...
>
> With my memory...may have sent this before...?? Herb
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 10
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Why couldn't half a VW be mounted in place of a 447 instead of
re-engineering the nose?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb" <Herbgh@nctc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 2:50 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fourstar
>
> Wondering how many have seen this...? Called the Fourstar...one of a
> kind...Bill Bronson of the St. Louis area designed and built it using
> Firestar parts...
>
> I have enough parts to build it...and the less than 2 gal an hour
> consumption of my Global engine is desirable...
>
> With my memory...may have sent this before...?? Herb
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
This raises a question for me... I tried to drill out some of the rivets that were
used by the original builder to build the tails (damaged in shipping), and
it was very very difficult to do it without damaging the parts under the rivets.
Drilling off the heads was possible, but pounding the stems out of the holes
without collapsing or denting the tubes was very difficult.
Are there more than one type of rivets that are considered acceptable for the Kolb?
Anything other than Stainless? Are the Avex rivets (used on the Zenair) seen
as acceptable?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs...
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 11:18 AM
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
Yep...the only reason to clad 2024 has to do with the
inevitable
corrosion of the high copper content of the alloy..
6061 has a considerable content of
Magnesium and Manganese... and
the base metal oxidizes to form the protective
barrier...which suffices
on our Kolbs... Most of it is mill marked with Chandler
Aluminum in
Arizona and with the 6061 t6 designation...
I rebuilt a 20 some year old Ultrastar
wreck...and the good parts
were as sound as a current model... even the steel
rivets used back
then were serviceable...and much easier to drill out... the
feared
galvanic effect is not a worry IMHO!! At least over the life
of our
planes, based on that experience..
I worked at Kaiser Aluminum for a
time...in the lab and on the floor
at all stages of aluminum production..but my memory is vague
now... Herb
On 04/12/2016 11:56 AM, Charlie England wrote:
<ceengland7@gmail.com>
>
> Stuart,
>
> Not meaning to take a poke at you personally, but...
Alodine doesn't
> 'stick' to the aluminum. It is a 'conversion' process.
It basically
> corrodes the microscopic top layer of the aluminum,
forming an
> 'converted' (basically a modified oxide) layer that
prevents further
> corrosion of the underlying aluminum. (Very non-tech,
layman's
> description)
>
> Alodine works fine on alclad (typically 2024 alloy with
pure aluminum
> coating to protect the corrosion prone 2024), and also
works fine on
> 6061 alloy which doesn't need the alclad to protect it.
I can
> personally testify to it working on both, because both
alloys are used
> in the RV-7 I'm building, and I've personally treated
both alloys
> successfully.
>
> The hinges you attempted to treat were almost certainly
6061 or
> similar alloy, without any cladding. If I were a
betting man, I'd bet
> that you didn't get the surface perfectly clean and
free of oils/other
> contamination, and/or you didn't properly acid etch the
parts prior to
> the treatment attempt. All aluminum has a layer of
corrosion on its
> surface, if it's been exposed to air for more than a
few minutes. The
> alodine cannot 'convert' this layer of oxide; it can
only work on
> aluminum itself. It cannot work through any
contaminants, either. The
> likely reason you got conversion in the holes and not
the surface is
> that the act of drilling the holes removed the
contaminants and the
> corrosion layer.
>
> I don't know what alloys are used in Kolbs, but I'd bet
that any
> extruded parts (angle, plate, etc) are 6061 and tubing
is also 6061,
> except for non-structural stuff like aluminum fuel
line, which is
> usually 3000 series alloy. Aluminum sheet could be
either 6061 or
> 2024, but is probably 6061.
>
> 6061 is pretty corrosion resistant, so unless the plane
will be tied
> down outside or lives near salt water, alodine might
not be *needed*,
> but it never hurts.
>
> With 2024, the alodine process provides an extra
'layer' of protection
> in addition to the alclad.
>
> Tests have shown that alodine provides as much
protection from
> corrosion as the best epoxies or any other actual
paint/coating process.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Charlie
>
> On 4/12/2016 8:49 AM, Stuart Harner wrote:
<stuart@harnerfarm.net>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> If the tubes are alclad, (I suspect they are) the
alodine won't
>> "stick" anyway.
>>
>> After drilling all the holes in the hinges I got
all set up to
>> alodine them. Turned out the only place it would
take was the inside
>> of the holes. The hinges were either alclad or
already alodined with
>> clear chemical. The pretty gold colored holes were
quickly filled
>> with stainless steel rivets so no one can see
anyway but I know they
>> are protected. :)
>>
>> You could do a test on a small piece of scrap tube
to see what effect
>> it has.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:04 PM
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
>>
<victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> " Kolbers:
>> December 2005, John Williamson, Gary
Haley, Ken Korenik and I,
>> flew the Texas coast from Port Arthur to
Brownsville. It was a lot
>> of fun, as we low leveled the beach the
entire way. We camped out on
>> the airports. Miss those days.
>> john hmkIIITitus,
>>Alabama"
>>
>> Beautiful!What great adventures
you have had with this aircraft,
>> congratulations. I hope I'm able to have half as
much fun with mine.
>>
>> Started on the stabilizers of my Firestar kit
Saturday, got one side
>> cut, fitted and Clecoed, and was able to start
cutting tubes for the
>> second one. Does anyone have a recommendation for
or againsit using
>> Alodine chemical conversion as a no-weight
corrosion preventive
>> treatment on the aluminum tails?
>>
>> Bill Berle
>> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety &
performance upgrade for light
>> aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
>> non-profit and for-profit entities
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Mon, 4/11/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
wrote:
>>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Last Flight 2005 |
Charlie,
No offense taken.
Actually I put "stick" in quotes specifically for that reason. I understand the
chemical process but chose not to delve into it as college chemistry classes
were 35+ years ago.
These days I have to look up most stuff as memory isn't what it once was. :(
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
Stuart,
Not meaning to take a poke at you personally, but... Alodine doesn't 'stick' to
the aluminum. It is a 'conversion' process. It basically corrodes the microscopic
top layer of the aluminum, forming an 'converted' (basically a modified oxide)
layer that prevents further corrosion of the underlying aluminum. (Very
non-tech, layman's description)
Alodine works fine on alclad (typically 2024 alloy with pure aluminum coating to
protect the corrosion prone 2024), and also works fine on
6061 alloy which doesn't need the alclad to protect it. I can personally testify
to it working on both, because both alloys are used in the RV-7 I'm building,
and I've personally treated both alloys successfully.
The hinges you attempted to treat were almost certainly 6061 or similar alloy,
without any cladding. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that you didn't get the
surface perfectly clean and free of oils/other contamination, and/or you didn't
properly acid etch the parts prior to the treatment attempt. All aluminum has
a layer of corrosion on its surface, if it's been exposed to air for more than
a few minutes. The alodine cannot 'convert' this layer of oxide; it can only
work on aluminum itself. It cannot work through any contaminants, either. The
likely reason you got conversion in the holes and not the surface is that the
act of drilling the holes removed the contaminants and the corrosion layer.
I don't know what alloys are used in Kolbs, but I'd bet that any extruded parts
(angle, plate, etc) are 6061 and tubing is also 6061, except for non-structural
stuff like aluminum fuel line, which is usually 3000 series alloy. Aluminum
sheet could be either 6061 or 2024, but is probably 6061.
6061 is pretty corrosion resistant, so unless the plane will be tied down outside
or lives near salt water, alodine might not be *needed*, but it never hurts.
With 2024, the alodine process provides an extra 'layer' of protection in addition
to the alclad.
Tests have shown that alodine provides as much protection from corrosion as the
best epoxies or any other actual paint/coating process.
FWIW,
Charlie
On 4/12/2016 8:49 AM, Stuart Harner wrote:
> --> <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
>
> Bill,
>
> If the tubes are alclad, (I suspect they are) the alodine won't "stick" anyway.
>
> After drilling all the holes in the hinges I got all set up to alodine
> them. Turned out the only place it would take was the inside of the
> holes. The hinges were either alclad or already alodined with clear
> chemical. The pretty gold colored holes were quickly filled with
> stainless steel rivets so no one can see anyway but I know they are
> protected. :)
>
> You could do a test on a small piece of scrap tube to see what effect it has.
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:04 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Last Flight 2005
>
> --> <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
> " Kolbers:
> December 2005, John Williamson, Gary Haley, Ken Korenik and I, flew the Texas
coast from Port Arthur to Brownsville. It was a lot of fun, as we low leveled
the beach the entire way. We camped out on the airports. Miss those
days.
> john hmkIIITitus,
> Alabama"
>
> Beautiful! What great adventures you have had with this aircraft, congratulations.
I hope I'm able to have half as much fun with mine.
>
> Started on the stabilizers of my Firestar kit Saturday, got one side cut, fitted
and Clecoed, and was able to start cutting tubes for the second one. Does
anyone have a recommendation for or againsit using Alodine chemical conversion
as a no-weight corrosion preventive treatment on the aluminum tails?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 4/11/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
For corrosion protection on my mkiii .. Before I put on fabric I took a
syringe, loaded it up with epoxy primer, then put a drip or two on each
joint. I let capliary attraction pull the primer into the joints. 2
things, it should keep moisture and corrosion out of metal to metal
contacts, and if it helped to stabilize the joints,,,, all the better....
Boyd Young
Message 14
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| Subject: | Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
This raises a question for me... I tried to drill out some of the rivets that were
used by the original builder to build the tails (damaged in shipping), and
it was very very difficult to do it without damaging the parts under the rivets.
Drilling off the heads was possible, but pounding the stems out of the holes
without collapsing or denting the tubes was very difficult.
Are there more than one type of rivets that are considered acceptable for the Kolb?
Anything other than Stainless? Are the Avex rivets (used on the Zenair) seen
as acceptable?
Bill Berle
Kolbers:
Carbon and SS pop rivets use hardened steel mandrels. If an 1/8" bit comes in
contact with the mandrel, the mandrel wins very quickly.
I have rebuilt all three of my Kolbs, which required a lot of rivet drilling to
remove. Learned a few tricks over the years doing that.
First, drive out the old mandrel prior to a drilling attempt. You can buy a 1/16"
punch that works great, or use spent mandrels. First grind one end square
(flat). Use small Vise Grips to hold the mandrel. The drive them out.
To prevent the rivet from spinning while drilling I made a small tool out of a
piece of hack saw blade. I grind a notch in one end, beveling on one edge. Push
this under the rivet head as far as possible to lock the rivet.
If the rivet is not for a structural part, I use common hardware store aluminum
rivets. Easy to drill out. All my Lexan is attached with aluminum rivets.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 15
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That it is...sometimes in the eyes of the beholder...but in this
case...bet the decision will be unanimous...! :-)
just something I have had on my mind for some time... sort of a
disease I guess?? Not sure it can be prettied up...?? Herb
On 04/12/2016 01:58 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> Does it count that it is Ugly?
> Larry
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Wondering how many have seen this...? Called the Fourstar...one
> of a kind...Bill Bronson of the St. Louis area designed and built
> it using Firestar parts...
>
> I have enough parts to build it...and the less than 2 gal an hour
> consumption of my Global engine is desirable...
>
> With my memory...may have sent this before...?? Herb
>
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant
> of others./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 16
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That has been done already....A fellow from East Tenn....sent the engine
to the Kolb flyin one year...mounted on an early Firestar 1. The engine
was later mounted on his Firefly... The engine had dual ignition which
required that it be started with the electronic ign disabled....Poor
fellow forgot and messed hp his hand really bad...
then he crashed and the wife put her foot down..! end of story...
The half vw engine is well proven and reliable...more so in a tractor
configuration.. Mine idles smoothly at 600 rpm but had a bit of
vibration at cruise...2850 or so.. balancing the reciprocating and
rotating parts helps quite a bit... and I would do that if I follow
through with this project...Herb
On 04/12/2016 02:06 PM, pcking wrote:
>
>
> Why couldn't half a VW be mounted in place of a 447 instead of
> re-engineering the nose?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herb" <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 2:50 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Fourstar
>
>
>>
>> Wondering how many have seen this...? Called the Fourstar...one of a
>> kind...Bill Bronson of the St. Louis area designed and built it using
>> Firestar parts...
>>
>> I have enough parts to build it...and the less than 2 gal an hour
>> consumption of my Global engine is desirable...
>>
>> With my memory...may have sent this before...?? Herb
>>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
I think someone noticed that Bryan uses , likely non acetic , silicone
to seal the tube ends from bugs and the like...probably moisture also..Herb
On 04/12/2016 02:45 PM, B Young wrote:
>
> For corrosion protection on my mkiii .. Before I put on fabric I
> took a syringe, loaded it up with epoxy primer, then put a drip or
> two on each joint. I let capliary attraction pull the primer into the
> joints. 2 things, it should keep moisture and corrosion out of
> metal to metal contacts, and if it helped to stabilize the joints,,,,
> all the better....
>
> Boyd Young
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
In a very tough case...grinding the head off with a dremel tool works...
Herb
On 04/12/2016 03:06 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
>
> This raises a question for me... I tried to drill out some of the rivets that
were used by the original builder to build the tails (damaged in shipping), and
it was very very difficult to do it without damaging the parts under the rivets.
Drilling off the heads was possible, but pounding the stems out of the holes
without collapsing or denting the tubes was very difficult.
>
> Are there more than one type of rivets that are considered acceptable for the
Kolb? Anything other than Stainless? Are the Avex rivets (used on the Zenair)
seen as acceptable?
>
>
> Bill Berle
>
>
>
> Kolbers:
>
> Carbon and SS pop rivets use hardened steel mandrels. If an 1/8" bit comes in
contact with the mandrel, the mandrel wins very quickly.
>
> I have rebuilt all three of my Kolbs, which required a lot of rivet drilling
to remove. Learned a few tricks over the years doing that.
>
> First, drive out the old mandrel prior to a drilling attempt. You can buy a
1/16" punch that works great, or use spent mandrels. First grind one end square
(flat). Use small Vise Grips to hold the mandrel. The drive them out.
>
> To prevent the rivet from spinning while drilling I made a small tool out of
a piece of hack saw blade. I grind a notch in one end, beveling on one edge.
Push this under the rivet head as far as possible to lock the rivet.
>
> If the rivet is not for a structural part, I use common hardware store aluminum
rivets. Easy to drill out. All my Lexan is attached with aluminum rivets.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Firestar tail boom length... |
Could call Bryan...but someone will know....what is the length of the
tail boom on the Firestar 1? Probably the same on the II also? Herb
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar tail boom length... |
pardon the "also"...:-) grammatically incorrect Herb
On 04/12/2016 03:26 PM, Herb wrote:
>
> Could call Bryan...but someone will know....what is the length of the
> tail boom on the Firestar 1? Probably the same on the II also? Herb
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Last Flight 2005 |
"If someone wanted to do it again, I might be able to get these old bones out there.
I did fly into and spend the night in the pilot's lounge at MV, Sep 2014.
Wasn't the same without the Kolb Gang though, but just as beautiful and mysterious.
I love the place, the Navajos, and the excitement of flying to and
meeting there.
Right now I don't know of anyone who is making long or short cross country flights
in Kolbs.
I've been back a number of times since, on the ground. Still like it always was."
John,
If you ever get another trip together you can count me and the ole Craw-Gator in.
I know the plane was there before, but not with me. I would love a MV trip.
Leland[/quote]
--------
Kolb Mark III Classic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454915#454915
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar tail boom length... |
13 feet on the FireStar 2.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar tail boom length...
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 1:26 PM
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
Could call Bryan...but someone will know....what is the
length of the
tail boom on the Firestar 1? Probably the same on the
II also?Herb
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
www.buildersbooks.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Kolbers:
>
> To prevent the rivet from spinning while drilling I made a small tool out of
a piece of hack saw blade. I grind a notch in one end, beveling on one edge.
Push this under the rivet head as far as possible to lock the rivet.
>
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
Yep. Works like a champion. Sharpen the beveled notch edges with a Dremel.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454917#454917
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050022_medium_665.jpg
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
Yep. Works like a champion. Sharpen the beveled notch edges with a Dremel.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
I used the corner of a bench grinder to do mine. The little homemade tools
I use for pop rivets in the tin can with my pop rivet gun and snap punch,
must be 30 years old. Can't wear them out and they didn't cost anything to
start with.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 25
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Thanks for the great video!
Marlon
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454922#454922
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| Subject: | Re: Last Flight 2005 |
I have been there a few times by auto, would love to see it from my Firefly.
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454923#454923
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar tail boom length... |
Thanks Bill
I have a bunch of 5 inch tubes that I bought Kolb many years ago...
lightly dented or scratched...tubes that they could not sell with a
kit...but very serviceable otherwise.. Wish I had bought the whole
trailer load...!!
Off to measure...:-) Herb
On 04/12/2016 04:19 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> 13 feet on the FireStar 2.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar tail boom length...
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 1:26 PM
>
> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
> Could call Bryan...but someone will know....what is the
> length of the
> tail boom on the Firestar 1? Probably the same on the
> II also? Herb
>
> Lists This Month --
> Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on
> more about
> Gifts provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
Good video,
Christ has pay the prince for our sins, it is by God's Grace that
we are Saved.
G od's
R iches
A t
C hrist
E xpense
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 5:28 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs...
--> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Kolbers:
>
> To prevent the rivet from spinning while drilling I made a small tool out
of a piece of hack saw blade. I grind a notch in one end, beveling on one
edge. Push this under the rivet head as far as possible to lock the rivet.
>
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
Yep. Works like a champion. Sharpen the beveled notch edges with a Dremel.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454917#454917
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050022_medium_665.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar tail boom length... |
Herb although it would be a custom, unapproved, unsupported modification, from
an aerodynamic point of view it is possible to use a slightly shorter tailboom
with a slightly larger size tail to achieve the same "tail volume" as a longer
tailboom and a smaller tail.
So for example, you can lay out the drawings of the tail surfaces of a stock Firestar,
and measure the square foot area. Multiply this by the distance between
the center of that tail area and the center of gravity for the whole airplane.
You will get a CUBIC foot dimension (sq ft of area times linear ft of tailboom),
which is expressed as "Tail volume". If you shorten the tailboom by 6 inches
or a foot you can compensate by enlarging the tails proportionately according
to that formula, and you SHOULD THEORETICALLY have the same flight characteristics
as you would have with the stock design. It never works out exactly
the same, but it will likely not be unsafe or dangerous.
There are significant common sense limits to this of course. But the point is that
if you want to build a Firestar and your longest tube is 12 feet long, you
are not "sunk".
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar tail boom length...
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 3:05 PM
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
Thanks Bill
I have a bunch of 5 inch tubes that I
bought Kolb many years ago...
lightly dented or scratched...tubes that they could not sell
with a
kit...but very serviceable otherwise.. Wish I had bought the
whole
trailer load...!!
Off to measure...:-) Herb
On 04/12/2016 04:19 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> 13 feet on the FireStar 2.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:
>
>Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar tail boom
length...
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 1:26
PM
>
>Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
>Could call Bryan...but someone will
know....what is the
>length of the
>tail boom on the Firestar 1?
Probably the same on the
>II also?Herb
>
>Lists This Month --
>Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
>Raiser. Click on
>more about
>Gifts provided
>www.buildersbooks.com
>
-Matt
>Dralle, List Admin.
>Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>List Contribution Web Site -
>
-Matt
>Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
www.buildersbooks.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
"Greg Taylor" <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
Good video, Christ has pay the prince for our sins, it is by God's Grace that
we are Saved.
-----------------
What's this have to do with Kolbs?
Can I post all of my other non-Kolb stuff here too?
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar tail boom length... |
I am a foot and a half short...but the fuselage design will not be the
same anyhow...The distance from the tail boom H section bolt to the tail
is all that concerns me currently..fromdistance from the bolt forward
can be worked around safely...Herb
On 04/12/2016 05:55 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Herb although it would be a custom, unapproved, unsupported modification, from
an aerodynamic point of view it is possible to use a slightly shorter tailboom
with a slightly larger size tail to achieve the same "tail volume" as a longer
tailboom and a smaller tail.
>
> So for example, you can lay out the drawings of the tail surfaces of a stock
Firestar, and measure the square foot area. Multiply this by the distance between
the center of that tail area and the center of gravity for the whole airplane.
You will get a CUBIC foot dimension (sq ft of area times linear ft of tailboom),
which is expressed as "Tail volume". If you shorten the tailboom by 6
inches or a foot you can compensate by enlarging the tails proportionately according
to that formula, and you SHOULD THEORETICALLY have the same flight characteristics
as you would have with the stock design. It never works out exactly
the same, but it will likely not be unsafe or dangerous.
>
> There are significant common sense limits to this of course. But the point is
that if you want to build a Firestar and your longest tube is 12 feet long, you
are not "sunk".
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar tail boom length...
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 3:05 PM
>
> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
> Thanks Bill
>
> I have a bunch of 5 inch tubes that I
> bought Kolb many years ago...
> lightly dented or scratched...tubes that they could not sell
> with a
> kit...but very serviceable otherwise.. Wish I had bought the
> whole
> trailer load...!!
>
> Off to measure...:-) Herb
>
> On 04/12/2016 04:19 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
> >
> > 13 feet on the FireStar 2.
> >
> > Bill Berle
> > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
> upgrade for light aircraft
> > www.grantstar.net
> - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar tail boom
> length...
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 1:26
> PM
> >
> > Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> >
> > Could call Bryan...but someone will
> know....what is the
> > length of the
> > tail boom on the Firestar 1?
> Probably the same on the
> > II also? Herb
> >
> > Lists This Month --
> > Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> > Raiser. Click on
> > more about
> > Gifts provided
> > www.buildersbooks.com
> >
> -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> > Forum -
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> >
> -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
> Foster...Third red light and turn left.
>
>
> Lists This Month --
> Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on
> more about
> Gifts provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Alloyed aluminum on our kolbs... |
A lot of the guys on the list know each other, either from flyins or
cross country stints...so the List Gods tend to tollerate small
transgressions from time to time....
the general attitude is one of a bit of tolerance and the list Gods
generally say..."go forth and sin no more"! :-) Herb
On 04/12/2016 06:01 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
>
> "Greg Taylor" <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
>
> Good video, Christ has pay the prince for our sins, it is by God's Grace that
we are Saved.
> -----------------
>
> What's this have to do with Kolbs?
>
> Can I post all of my other non-Kolb stuff here too?
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | 447 Head bolt torque... |
Already in trouble with the list Gods...forgot to change the subject
line...!!
Now...to show how forgetful I am...got an email from the guy who
bought my Firefly...
I told him to be sure to re torque the cyl head nuts/studs.... I
think the correct torque is 195 inch lbs. or 17 ft lbs...that correct?
They do loosen up ! considerably...
I think I also told him that I would change the cooling fan
belt...since we have an unknown with it... Herb
On 04/12/2016 07:30 PM, Herb wrote:
>
> A lot of the guys on the list know each other, either from flyins or
> cross country stints...so the List Gods tend to tollerate small
> transgressions from time to time....
>
> the general attitude is one of a bit of tolerance and the list Gods
> generally say..."go forth and sin no more"! :-) Herb
>
> On 04/12/2016 06:01 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Greg Taylor" <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
>> Good video, Christ has pay the prince for our sins, it is by
>> God's Grace that we are Saved.
>> -----------------
>>
>> What's this have to do with Kolbs?
>>
>> Can I post all of my other non-Kolb stuff here too?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Building an airplane quickly |
Hi Folks,
Lots of discussion recently about building and re-building. Attached is
a link to a video about building an aircraft that you may find
interesting and encouraging. I think the aircraft being built is
fashioned after the Kolb Mark III design, so you may get some ideas for
shortcuts if you watch closely.
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
http://safeyoutube.net/w/ZMo
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Building an airplane quickly |
Yep! Like the way the Poly Brush goes on....seems they skimped on the
poly spray however..:-)
Kolbs built in London....the other London!!
Subcontracted assemblies included wing manufacture (Mitsubishi Heavy
Industries <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Heavy_Industries>,
Japan, central wing box)^[33]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-33>
horizontal stabilizers <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailplane> (Alenia
Aeronautica <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alenia_Aeronautica>, Italy;
Korea Aerospace Industries
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Aerospace_Industries>, South
Korea);^[34]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-34>
fuselage sections (Global Aeronautica, Italy; Boeing, North Charleston
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Charleston,_South_Carolina>, US;
Kawasaki Heavy Industries
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Heavy_Industries>, Japan; Spirit
AeroSystems <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_AeroSystems>, Wichita
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita,_Kansas>, US; Korean Air
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air>, South Korea);^[35]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-35> ^[36]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-seatimes_20050911-36>
^[37] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-37>
passenger doors (Latcore
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latecoere_group>, France); cargo doors,
access doors, and crew escape door (Saab AB
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_AB>, Sweden); software development
(HCL Enterprise <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HCL_Enterprise>
India);^[38]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-38> floor
beams (TAL Manufacturing Solutions Limited
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Group>, India);^[39]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-39> ^[40]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-40>
wiring (Labinal
<https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Labinal&action=edit&redlink=1>,
France);^[41]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-787_team-41>
wing-tips, flap <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flap_%28aircraft%29>
support fairings, wheel well bulkhead, and longerons
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longeron> (Korean Air, South Korea);^[42]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-KAL-42>
landing gear (Messier-Bugatti-Dowty
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier-Bugatti-Dowty>, UK/France);^[43]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-43> ^[44]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-44> and
power distribution and management systems, air conditioning packs
(Hamilton Sundstrand
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Sundstrand>, Connecticut
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut>, US).^[41]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-787_team-41>
^[45]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-air_conditioning-45>
Boeing is considering bringing construction of the 787-9 tail in house;
the tail of the 787-8 is currently made by Alenia.^[46]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#cite_note-46>
On 04/12/2016 10:51 PM, David Kulp wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Lots of discussion recently about building and re-building. Attached
> is a link to a video about building an aircraft that you may find
> interesting and encouraging. I think the aircraft being built is
> fashioned after the Kolb Mark III design, so you may get some ideas
> for shortcuts if you watch closely.
>
> Dave Kulp
> Bethlehem, PA
>
> http://safeyoutube.net/w/ZMo
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
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