Kolb-List Digest Archive

Fri 04/29/16


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 10:20 AM - Re: new to Kolb list (flywithme)
     2. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (william sullivan)
     3. 10:39 AM - Re: new to Kolb list (olendorf)
     4. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (John Hauck)
     5. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Stuart Harner)
     6. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Rick Neilsen)
     7. 01:57 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (Bill Berle)
     8. 02:59 PM - Re: new to Kolb list (Frankd)
     9. 03:12 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (Jim Baker)
    10. 03:48 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (John Hauck)
    11. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Herb)
    12. 05:26 PM - Re: new to Kolb list (Richard Pike)
    13. 07:29 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (Bill Berle)
    14. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Bill Berle)
    15. 07:40 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (John Hauck)
    16. 07:58 PM - Re: new to Kolb list (flywithme)
    17. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Herb)
    18. 08:57 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (B Young)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 10:20:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    From: "flywithme" <constrjh@pldi.net>
    Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could cause a problem when in the air. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624


    Message 2


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    Time: 10:37:02 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    Bookmark this: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly.html Jack Hart is an engineer, and has thoroughly documented his Firefly. Enjoy! Bill Sullivan -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 4/29/16, flywithme <constrjh@pldi.net> wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 1:18 PM "flywithme" <constrjh@pldi.net> Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could cause a problem when in the air. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624 Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:39:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    From: "olendorf" <olendorf@gmail.com>
    Keep in mind that when you taxi around you ARE flying it. So make sure it and you are both ready for flight. Many people who have "just taxied" ended up in the air. -------- Scott Olendorf Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop Schenectady, NY http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455627#455627


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:47:57 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air." Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi and a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in that situation. If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become qualified to fly the Firefly. My opinion only. john h MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe 912ULS-800.0 hours engine 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could cause a problem when in the air. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:54:45 PM PST US
    From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    Two things that come to mind is that the high mounted engine can cause the Firefly to nose over with just an application of too much power. And with a 447 and gear box it requires left rudder input unlike a "conventional" tail dragger such as a Cub or Champ which require right rudder. For doing engine break-in or other run ups, be sure to have the tail tied down tight, it can nose over on you! -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 1:48 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air." Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi and a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in that situation. If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become qualified to fly the Firefly. My opinion only. john h MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe 912ULS-800.0 hours engine 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could cause a problem when in the air. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:15:38 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com>
    John makes a real good point about taxing and it doesn't need to be a wind gust. You can be taxing along just fine and you cut the power. It can leap into the air with no power. Not good. Then you add power and it will nose down still below flying speed. Again not good and even worse. The high thrust line isn't a problem it is just unique and it takes practice to handle and at low speed it is more exaggerated. Just keep saying add power the plane will pitch down pull the stick back. Reduce power the plane will pitch up push the stick forward. There are two things that will bite you if you aren't really good and ready. The first is fast taxi. Don't do it as a learning tool. The next is a crow hop. Don't do it. One more thing that is unique to all very light planes is the low inertia. Flying a Cessna 150 will not help you in this area. When you come in for a landing in a Kolb you need to fly right down to about one foot before you flair. Kolbs bleed speed away considerably quicker than bigger heaver planes. In a Cessna 150 you will learn to start your flair at 30-50 feet and heaver faster planes even higher. This will work against you when you then fly a kolb. To make things easier while learning landings in a Kolb make you approach faster and with some power. Kolbs need little runway, so a longer landing shouldn't be a problem. Do use a long grass strip for practice. If you do have to add power for a missed approach add power slowly and do it before you get close to the ground. I can't say it too often add power pull back reduce power push forward. Again worth what you paid for it Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 2:47 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: > > The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air." > > Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi > and > a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink > of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in > that > situation. > > If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become > qualified > to fly the Firefly. > > My opinion only. > > john h > MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe > 912ULS-800.0 hours engine > 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC > Titus, Alabama > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list > > > Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try > to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate > the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i > will > probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place > just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to > familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects > and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that > i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going > over > all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could > cause a problem when in the air. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624 > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:57:02 PM PST US
    From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Question about building vertical fin
    I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers, and have started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring. As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar" tube on the back of the fin is one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4 inch tube. When I riveted the gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled" the 3/4 inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So when I went to install the gusset on the other side I realized the fin leading edge is no longer on the centerline of the fin. I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right from a quality perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't want to drill out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially since I cannot 100% locate those previous holes if I want to replace the tube. Has anyone else run into this while building the fin? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities


    Message 8


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    Time: 02:59:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    From: "Frankd" <FDucker@aol.com>
    Hello Newcomer, Welcome.. This is such an important question that I had to give my 2 cents worth. before I flew my Xtra I did two things:- 1/ I got a ride in a KOLB MkIII that was local to give me the sight picture you get from that aircraft... Its unique but I then knew what to expect. 2/ I flew ALOT in a Champ, to get as close experience as I could to a Kolb. It would have been better in a Kolb 2 seat as the inertia loss is still a much bigger factor than the champ, it would have been better in a cub.. Given the above I would suggest contacting the factory to see if they could help in this area. All the previous advise is spot on... we all want you to be successful.. Good luck and let us know how you got on.. FrankD MkIII Xtra N1014S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455649#455649


    Message 9


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    Time: 03:12:44 PM PST US
    From: Jim Baker <jimbaker@npacc.net>
    Subject: Re: Question about building vertical fin
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    Message 10


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    Time: 03:48:19 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Question about building vertical fin
    I believe in the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII (before the days of the MKIIIx) construction manuals black plastic electrical tape can be used as a shim to give the two different size tubes a snug fit. I don't remember there being a "fitting" problem when building the tail section. By all means build you parts with cleco's first. They are much easier to drill out than case hardened mandrels. Would have thought any self respecting engineer would have known that. wink...wink ;-) If I wasn't happy with the fit, I'd drill the rivets and start over. Might as well get practice removing SS rivets now. You'll need that expertise later on for sure. I'll bet you can figure out how to set the new holes to match the ones in the blind tube. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Baker Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin Bill, Are you using Clecos to hold the parts together prior to permanent riveting? Jim Baker 405 426 5377 <tel:4054265377> -----Original Message----- From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:56 Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers, and have started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring. As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar" tube on the back of the fin is one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4 inch tube. When I riveted the gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled" the 3/4 inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So when I went to install the gusset on the other side I realized the fin leading edge is no longer on the centerline of the fin. I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right from a quality perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't want to drill out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially since I cannot 100% locate those previous holes if I want to replace the tube. Has anyone else run into this while building the fin? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities =========== =========== =========== =========== ===========


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:25:04 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    From: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
    a sad story in regards to a new Firefly pilot.... about 12 years ago...I got a call from Travis telling me that a guy in Va had bent his cage crow hopping....and that he was coming to the factory to get a new one and that I could have the old cage for travel expenses...So off I went to meet the guy and buy the bent cage... Turns out it was lightly damaged and in much better than the one I had just bent..dropping my Firefly in from 50 or so feet... In meeting the guy...I learned that he was trying to master flying on his own... I thought I did a good job of putting the fear of God in him and he promised to get some air time while in Florida over the next month..... long story short...he made the newspaper in Roanoke,Va... never made it to Fla....Herb On 04/29/2016 01:47 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air." > > Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi and > a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink > of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in that > situation. > > If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become qualified > to fly the Firefly. > > My opinion only. > > john h > MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe > 912ULS-800.0 hours engine > 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC > Titus, Alabama > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list > > > Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try > to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate > the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will > probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place > just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to > familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects > and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that > i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over > all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could > cause a problem when in the air. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624 > > -- Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.


    Message 12


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    Time: 05:26:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
    Power on stalls are different. My experience is - if the engine is still at climb or full power at the break, the airplane will try and rotate around the center of drag, and you can go REALLY nose down really quickly. If you chop the power at the break, you create a sudden huge amount of drag from the prop which is well above the center of mass and drag UNLESS you also apply down elevator at the same time. My personal technique (experiment at your own risk) is that in a power on stall you chop the power and apply full forward stick at the stall break, the airplane will literally rotate around the center of mass in just a couple seconds, the airspeed falls off to zero, and as it goes to about 30-40 degrees nose low, the airspeed quickly returns, you can neutralize the controls and it is flying again with a very minimal loss of altitude. Once you get really used to your airplane, the so-called "impossible turn" ie; losing the engine right after takeoff and doing a dead stick 180 back to the runway becomes quite feasible. Practice it a couple thousand feet up... -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Would you consider yourself to be a good person? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455659#455659


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:29:04 PM PST US
    From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Question about building vertical fin
    Putting black electrical tape on would not be the best solution, because we're talking 1/8 inch on both sides of the smaller tube to make it "even" with the larger tube. That's way too much tape I'm guessing. I had been using Clecos extensively, like any self-respecting sheet metal Cessna modification/repair guy :) My error was to do the drill/cleco/rivet operation on one side of the top of the fin, before cleco'ing the other side of the fin. So without any resistance from the other side, the clecos and rivets on the first side just pulled the gusset over tight against the first side. I realized the error just about as the last rivet went pop ! I can easily shim the other side of the fin leading edge tube with a piece of wood, sanded to a taper. That will allow me to continue the structural assembly without weakening or goobering out the holes by having to drill again and enlarge the hole. A wood shim will make it so the leading edge of the fin is perfectly on the centerline of the rest of the fin. As an old washed up free flight model builder, I thankfully have a supply of balsa and spruce sticks :) What I learned from watching this forum (and speaking to a Zenair builder) was the technique of driving out the mandrel first before drilling off the SS rivet.That has allowed me to remove a few rivets without damaging the hole in the tube or wrecking the sheet metal gusset. I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that it was not a big bloody battle to drive out the mandrel. I do have several "hole finder" tools that can match the rivet holes,a nd they work reasonably well, but not perfectly. With blind rivets you lose the big advantage that solid AN rivets give you, which is the rivet truly filling an oblong hole. Thehole for a pop rivet must be better quality. I also notice that the instruction booklet does not specify the rivets, it only says "stainless steel rivets are 3 times stronger than aluminum". A bag of rivets came witht his kit,a nd I have made the assumption that they were supplied by Kolb. Does anyone know this is right or wrong? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 4/29/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 3:48 PM I believe in the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII (before the days of the MKIIIx) construction manuals black plastic electrical tape can be used as a shim to give the two different size tubes a snug fit. I don't remember there being a "fitting" problem when building the tail section. By all means build you parts with cleco's first. They are much easier to drill out than case hardened mandrels. Would have thought any self respecting engineer would have known that. wink...wink ;-) If I wasn't happy with the fit, I'd drill the rivets and start over. Might as well get practice removing SS rivets now. You'll need that expertise later on for sure. I'll bet you can figure out how to set the new holes to match the ones in the blind tube. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Baker Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:12 PM To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin Bill, Are you using Clecos to hold the parts together prior to permanent riveting? Jim Baker 405 426 5377 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:56 Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers, and have started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring. As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar" tube on the back of the fin is one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4 inch tube. When I riveted the gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled" the 3/4 inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So when I went to install the gusset on the other side I realized the fin leading edge is no longer on the centerline of the fin. I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right from a quality perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't want to drill out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially since I cannot 100% locate those previous holes if I want to replace the tube. Has anyone else run into this while building the fin? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities ============== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic=========== href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =========== href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com ============ your generous support! p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:31:02 PM PST US
    From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    Herb what is the deal with the guy in CA with the tailboom tubes for sale? I sent you an e-mail asking about it and did not hear back from you. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 4/29/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 4:24 PM Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> a sad story in regards to a new Firefly pilot.... about 12 years ago...I got a call from Travis telling me that a guy in Va had bent his cage crow hopping....and that he was coming to the factory to get a new one and that I could have the old cage for travel expenses...So off I went to meet the guy and buy the bent cage... Turns out it was lightly damaged and in much better than the one I had just bent..dropping my Firefly in from 50 or so feet... In meeting the guy...I learned that he was trying to master flying on his own... I thought I did a good job of putting the fear of God in him and he promised to get some air time while in Florida over the next month..... long story short...he made the newspaper in Roanoke,Va... never made it to Fla....Herb On 04/29/2016 01:47 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air." > > Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi and > a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink > of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in that > situation. > > If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become qualified > to fly the Firefly. > > My opinion only. > > john h > MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe > 912ULS-800.0 hours engine > 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC > Titus, Alabama > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list > > > Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try > to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate > the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will > probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place > just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to > familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects > and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that > i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over > all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could > cause a problem when in the air. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left. Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:40:45 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Question about building vertical fin
    Are you working on the rear tube of the upper vertical stabilizer to the top of the tail post? If you are, 1/4" slop between tail post and trailing edge is way too much. I think that is what you said, 1/8" space on each side. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 9:26 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin Putting black electrical tape on would not be the best solution, because we're talking 1/8 inch on both sides of the smaller tube to make it "even" with the larger tube. That's way too much tape I'm guessing. I had been using Clecos extensively, like any self-respecting sheet metal Cessna modification/repair guy :) My error was to do the drill/cleco/rivet operation on one side of the top of the fin, before cleco'ing the other side of the fin. So without any resistance from the other side, the clecos and rivets on the first side just pulled the gusset over tight against the first side. I realized the error just about as the last rivet went pop ! I can easily shim the other side of the fin leading edge tube with a piece of wood, sanded to a taper. That will allow me to continue the structural assembly without weakening or goobering out the holes by having to drill again and enlarge the hole. A wood shim will make it so the leading edge of the fin is perfectly on the centerline of the rest of the fin. As an old washed up free flight model builder, I thankfully have a supply of balsa and spruce sticks :) What I learned from watching this forum (and speaking to a Zenair builder) was the technique of driving out the mandrel first before drilling off the SS rivet.That has allowed me to remove a few rivets without damaging the hole in the tube or wrecking the sheet metal gusset. I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that it was not a big bloody battle to drive out the mandrel. I do have several "hole finder" tools that can match the rivet holes,a nd they work reasonably well, but not perfectly. With blind rivets you lose the big advantage that solid AN rivets give you, which is the rivet truly filling an oblong hole. Thehole for a pop rivet must be better quality. I also notice that the instruction booklet does not specify the rivets, it only says "stainless steel rivets are 3 times stronger than aluminum". A bag of rivets came witht his kit,a nd I have made the assumption that they were supplied by Kolb. Does anyone know this is right or wrong? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 4/29/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 3:48 PM I believe in the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII (before the days of the MKIIIx) construction manuals black plastic electrical tape can be used as a shim to give the two different size tubes a snug fit. I don't remember there being a "fitting" problem when building the tail section. By all means build you parts with cleco's first. They are much easier to drill out than case hardened mandrels. Would have thought any self respecting engineer would have known that. wink...wink ;-) If I wasn't happy with the fit, I'd drill the rivets and start over. Might as well get practice removing SS rivets now. You'll need that expertise later on for sure. I'll bet you can figure out how to set the new holes to match the ones in the blind tube. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Baker Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:12 PM To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin Bill, Are you using Clecos to hold the parts together prior to permanent riveting? Jim Baker 405 426 5377 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:56 Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers, and have started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring. As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar" tube on the back of the fin is one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4 inch tube. When I riveted the gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled" the 3/4 inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So when I went to install the gusset on the other side I realized the fin leading edge is no longer on the centerline of the fin. I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right from a quality perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't want to drill out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially since I cannot 100% locate those previous holes if I want to replace the tube. Has anyone else run into this while building the fin? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities =============== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic=========== href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =========== href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com ============ your generous support! p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:58:47 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    From: "flywithme" <constrjh@pldi.net>
    Thanks very much for the advice! it is much appreciated!! i don't plan on any fast taxi and really glad you all warned me about just popping unexpectedly into the air. i can see with such a lite plane how this can happen very sudden. when the time comes after some instruction i have a 2800 grass runway to practice on. i need to do a search for first flights on this site to read as much as i can on this platform so i will be less surprised by it's characteristics. thanks again and don't be afraid to tell me how it is, Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455665#455665


    Message 17


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    Time: 08:05:35 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: new to Kolb list
    From: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
    I heard about them , same as you, here on the list...someone else posted the info... I am the one with the short "tube"! :-) Herb On 04/29/2016 09:27 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > > Herb what is the deal with the guy in CA with the tailboom tubes for sale? I sent you an e-mail asking about it and did not hear back from you. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 4/29/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 4:24 PM > > Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> > > a sad story in regards to a new Firefly pilot.... > about 12 years ago...I got a call from > Travis telling me that a guy > in Va had bent his cage crow hopping....and that he was > coming to the > factory to get a new one and that I could have the old cage > for travel > expenses...So off I went to meet the guy and buy the bent > cage... Turns > out it was lightly damaged and in much better than the one I > had just > bent..dropping my Firefly in from 50 or so feet... > > In meeting the guy...I learned that he was > trying to master flying > on his own... > > I thought I did a good job of > putting the fear of God in him and he > promised to get some air time while in Florida over the next > month..... > > long story short...he made the newspaper in > Roanoke,Va... never made > it to Fla....Herb > > On 04/29/2016 01:47 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when > in the air." > > > > Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi > exercise. Fast taxi and > > a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to > flight in the blink > > of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot > has found himself in that > > situation. > > > > If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I > had become qualified > > to fly the Firefly. > > > > My opinion only. > > > > john h > > MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe > > 912ULS-800.0 hours engine > > 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC > > Titus, Alabama > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of flywithme > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM > > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list > > > > > > Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i > don't intend to try > > to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am > trying to evaluate > > the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole > ultralite concept. i will > > probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi > around the place > > just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite > aircraft. i need to > > familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its > different aspects > > and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs > the firefly has that > > i should address while i am getting some instruction? i > have been going over > > all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for > anything that could > > cause a problem when in the air. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. > Foster...Third red light and turn left. > > > Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > -- Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:57:47 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question about building vertical fin
    From: B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com>
    any chance you could put the tube in a vise and oval it slightly so the transition is less abrupt without weakening anything... Boyd On Apr 29, 2016 2:59 PM, "Bill Berle" <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote: I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers, and have started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring. As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar" tube on the back of the fin is one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4 inch tube. When I riveted the gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled" the 3/4 inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So when I went to install the gusset on the other side I realized the fin leading edge is no longer on the centerline of the fin. I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right from a quality perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't want to drill out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially since I cannot 100% locate those previous holes if I want to replace the tube. Has anyone else run into this while building the fin? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities




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