Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:20 AM - Re: new to Kolb list (flywithme)
2. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (william sullivan)
3. 10:39 AM - Re: new to Kolb list (olendorf)
4. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (John Hauck)
5. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Stuart Harner)
6. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Rick Neilsen)
7. 01:57 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (Bill Berle)
8. 02:59 PM - Re: new to Kolb list (Frankd)
9. 03:12 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (Jim Baker)
10. 03:48 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (John Hauck)
11. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Herb)
12. 05:26 PM - Re: new to Kolb list (Richard Pike)
13. 07:29 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (Bill Berle)
14. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Bill Berle)
15. 07:40 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (John Hauck)
16. 07:58 PM - Re: new to Kolb list (flywithme)
17. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Herb)
18. 08:57 PM - Re: Question about building vertical fin (B Young)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try to fly
it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate the aircraft
and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will probably
unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place just to familiarize
myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to familiarize myself
with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects and maintenance needs
etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that i should address while
i am getting some instruction? i have been going over all of the welds,cables,hoses
and wires etc looking for anything that could cause a problem when in the
air.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
Bookmark this: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly.html
Jack Hart is an engineer, and has thoroughly documented his Firefly. Enjoy!
Bill Sullivan
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 4/29/16, flywithme <constrjh@pldi.net> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 1:18 PM
"flywithme" <constrjh@pldi.net>
Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't
intend to try to fly it until i get some instruction. right
now i am trying to evaluate the aircraft and familiarize
myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will probably
unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the
place just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a
lite aircraft. i need to familiarize myself with the Rotax
engine and all of its different aspects and maintenance
needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that
i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have
been going over all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc
looking for anything that could cause a problem when in the
air.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
Keep in mind that when you taxi around you ARE flying it. So make sure it and you
are both ready for flight. Many people who have "just taxied" ended up in
the air.
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455627#455627
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air."
Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi and
a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink
of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in that
situation.
If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become qualified
to fly the Firefly.
My opinion only.
john h
MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe
912ULS-800.0 hours engine
6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try
to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate
the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will
probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place
just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to
familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects
and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that
i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over
all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could
cause a problem when in the air.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
Two things that come to mind is that the high mounted engine can cause the
Firefly to nose over with just an application of too much power. And with a
447 and gear box it requires left rudder input unlike a "conventional" tail
dragger such as a Cub or Champ which require right rudder.
For doing engine break-in or other run ups, be sure to have the tail tied
down tight, it can nose over on you!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air."
Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi and
a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink
of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in that
situation.
If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become qualified
to fly the Firefly.
My opinion only.
john h
MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe
912ULS-800.0 hours engine
6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try
to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate
the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will
probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place
just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to
familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects
and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that
i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over
all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could
cause a problem when in the air.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
John makes a real good point about taxing and it doesn't need to be a wind
gust. You can be taxing along just fine and you cut the power. It can leap
into the air with no power. Not good. Then you add power and it will nose
down still below flying speed. Again not good and even worse.
The high thrust line isn't a problem it is just unique and it takes
practice to handle and at low speed it is more exaggerated. Just keep
saying add power the plane will pitch down pull the stick back. Reduce
power the plane will pitch up push the stick forward. There are two things
that will bite you if you aren't really good and ready. The first is fast
taxi. Don't do it as a learning tool. The next is a crow hop. Don't do it.
One more thing that is unique to all very light planes is the low inertia.
Flying a Cessna 150 will not help you in this area. When you come in for a
landing in a Kolb you need to fly right down to about one foot before you
flair. Kolbs bleed speed away considerably quicker than bigger heaver
planes. In a Cessna 150 you will learn to start your flair at 30-50 feet
and heaver faster planes even higher. This will work against you when you
then fly a kolb. To make things easier while learning landings in a Kolb
make you approach faster and with some power. Kolbs need little runway, so
a longer landing shouldn't be a problem. Do use a long grass strip for
practice. If you do have to add power for a missed approach add power
slowly and do it before you get close to the ground. I can't say it too
often add power pull back reduce power push forward.
Again worth what you paid for it
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 2:47 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air."
>
> Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi
> and
> a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink
> of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in
> that
> situation.
>
> If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become
> qualified
> to fly the Firefly.
>
> My opinion only.
>
> john h
> MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe
> 912ULS-800.0 hours engine
> 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC
> Titus, Alabama
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
>
>
> Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try
> to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate
> the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i
> will
> probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place
> just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to
> familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects
> and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that
> i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going
> over
> all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could
> cause a problem when in the air.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Question about building vertical fin |
I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers, and have
started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring.
As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar" tube on the back of the fin is
one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4 inch tube. When I riveted the
gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled" the 3/4 inch tube over
flush with the side of the one inch tube. So when I went to install the gusset
on the other side I realized the fin leading edge is no longer on the centerline
of the fin.
I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right from a quality
perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't want to drill out
the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially since I cannot 100% locate
those previous holes if I want to replace the tube.
Has anyone else run into this while building the fin?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
Hello Newcomer, Welcome..
This is such an important question that I had to give my 2 cents worth.
before I flew my Xtra I did two things:-
1/ I got a ride in a KOLB MkIII that was local to give me the sight picture you
get from that aircraft... Its unique but I then knew what to expect.
2/ I flew ALOT in a Champ, to get as close experience as I could to a Kolb. It
would have been better in a Kolb 2 seat as the inertia loss is still a much
bigger factor than the champ, it would have been better in a cub..
Given the above I would suggest contacting the factory to see if they could help
in this area.
All the previous advise is spot on... we all want you to be successful..
Good luck and let us know how you got on..
FrankD
MkIII Xtra N1014S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455649#455649
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Subject: | Re: Question about building vertical fin |
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Subject: | Question about building vertical fin |
I believe in the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII (before the days of the
MKIIIx) construction manuals black plastic electrical tape can be used
as a shim to give the two different size tubes a snug fit.
I don't remember there being a "fitting" problem when building the tail
section.
By all means build you parts with cleco's first. They are much easier
to drill out than case hardened mandrels. Would have thought any self
respecting engineer would have known that. wink...wink ;-)
If I wasn't happy with the fit, I'd drill the rivets and start over.
Might as well get practice removing SS rivets now. You'll need that
expertise later on for sure. I'll bet you can figure out how to set the
new holes to match the ones in the blind tube.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Baker
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin
Bill,
Are you using Clecos to hold the parts together prior to permanent
riveting?
Jim Baker
405 426 5377 <tel:4054265377>
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:56
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin
I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers,
and have started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring.
As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar" tube on the back of
the fin is one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4 inch tube.
When I riveted the gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled"
the 3/4 inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So when
I went to install the gusset on the other side I realized the fin
leading edge is no longer on the centerline of the fin.
I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right
from a quality perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't
want to drill out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially
since I cannot 100% locate those previous holes if I want to replace the
tube.
Has anyone else run into this while building the fin?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
a sad story in regards to a new Firefly pilot....
about 12 years ago...I got a call from Travis telling me that a guy
in Va had bent his cage crow hopping....and that he was coming to the
factory to get a new one and that I could have the old cage for travel
expenses...So off I went to meet the guy and buy the bent cage... Turns
out it was lightly damaged and in much better than the one I had just
bent..dropping my Firefly in from 50 or so feet...
In meeting the guy...I learned that he was trying to master flying
on his own...
I thought I did a good job of putting the fear of God in him and he
promised to get some air time while in Florida over the next month.....
long story short...he made the newspaper in Roanoke,Va... never made
it to Fla....Herb
On 04/29/2016 01:47 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when in the air."
>
> Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi exercise. Fast taxi and
> a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to flight in the blink
> of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot has found himself in that
> situation.
>
> If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I had become qualified
> to fly the Firefly.
>
> My opinion only.
>
> john h
> MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe
> 912ULS-800.0 hours engine
> 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC
> Titus, Alabama
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
>
>
> Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i don't intend to try
> to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am trying to evaluate
> the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole ultralite concept. i will
> probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi around the place
> just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite aircraft. i need to
> familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its different aspects
> and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs the firefly has that
> i should address while i am getting some instruction? i have been going over
> all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for anything that could
> cause a problem when in the air.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
Power on stalls are different. My experience is - if the engine is still at climb
or full power at the break, the airplane will try and rotate around the center
of drag, and you can go REALLY nose down really quickly.
If you chop the power at the break, you create a sudden huge amount of drag from
the prop which is well above the center of mass and drag UNLESS you also apply
down elevator at the same time.
My personal technique (experiment at your own risk) is that in a power on stall
you chop the power and apply full forward stick at the stall break, the airplane
will literally rotate around the center of mass in just a couple seconds,
the airspeed falls off to zero, and as it goes to about 30-40 degrees nose low,
the airspeed quickly returns, you can neutralize the controls and it is flying
again with a very minimal loss of altitude.
Once you get really used to your airplane, the so-called "impossible turn" ie;
losing the engine right after takeoff and doing a dead stick 180 back to the runway
becomes quite feasible.
Practice it a couple thousand feet up...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455659#455659
Message 13
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Subject: | Question about building vertical fin |
Putting black electrical tape on would not be the best solution, because we're
talking 1/8 inch on both sides of the smaller tube to make it "even" with the
larger tube. That's way too much tape I'm guessing.
I had been using Clecos extensively, like any self-respecting sheet metal Cessna
modification/repair guy :) My error was to do the drill/cleco/rivet operation
on one side of the top of the fin, before cleco'ing the other side of the fin.
So without any resistance from the other side, the clecos and rivets on the
first side just pulled the gusset over tight against the first side. I realized
the error just about as the last rivet went pop !
I can easily shim the other side of the fin leading edge tube with a piece of wood,
sanded to a taper. That will allow me to continue the structural assembly
without weakening or goobering out the holes by having to drill again and enlarge
the hole. A wood shim will make it so the leading edge of the fin is perfectly
on the centerline of the rest of the fin. As an old washed up free flight
model builder, I thankfully have a supply of balsa and spruce sticks :)
What I learned from watching this forum (and speaking to a Zenair builder) was
the technique of driving out the mandrel first before drilling off the SS rivet.That
has allowed me to remove a few rivets without damaging the hole in the
tube or wrecking the sheet metal gusset. I was pleasantly surprised by the fact
that it was not a big bloody battle to drive out the mandrel.
I do have several "hole finder" tools that can match the rivet holes,a nd they
work reasonably well, but not perfectly. With blind rivets you lose the big advantage
that solid AN rivets give you, which is the rivet truly filling an oblong
hole. Thehole for a pop rivet must be better quality.
I also notice that the instruction booklet does not specify the rivets, it only
says "stainless steel rivets are 3 times stronger than aluminum". A bag of rivets
came witht his kit,a nd I have made the assumption that they were supplied
by Kolb. Does anyone know this is right or wrong?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 4/29/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 3:48 PM
I believe in the Ultrastar,
Firestar, and MKIII (before the days of the MKIIIx)
construction manuals black plastic electrical tape can be
used as a shim to give the two different size tubes a snug
fit. I don't remember there
being a "fitting" problem when building the tail
section. By all means build you parts
with cleco's first. They are much easier to drill out
than case hardened mandrels. Would have thought any self
respecting engineer would have known that. wink...wink
;-) If I wasn't happy with the
fit, I'd drill the rivets and start over. Might as
well get practice removing SS rivets now. You'll need
that expertise later on for sure. I'll bet you can
figure out how to set the new holes to match the ones in the
blind tube. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Jim Baker
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:12 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building
vertical fin Bill,
Are you using Clecos to hold the parts together prior to
permanent riveting?
Jim Baker
405 426
5377
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:56
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical
fin--> Kolb-List message
posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal
stabilizers, and have started on the vertical fin and steel
rear fuselage ring.
As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar"
tube on the back of the fin is one inch diameter tube. The
leading edge is 3/4 inch tube. When I riveted the gusset to
one side of this intersection, it "pulled" the 3/4
inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So
when I went to install the gusset on the other side I
realized the fin leading edge is no longer on the centerline
of the fin.
I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but
it's not right from a quality perspective. Is there a
known "fix" for this? I don't want to drill
out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially
since I cannot 100% locate those previous holes if I want to
replace the tube.
Has anyone else run into this while building the fin?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com
- safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities ==============
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic===========
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
============ your generous support!
p;
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
============
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
Herb what is the deal with the guy in CA with the tailboom tubes for sale? I sent
you an e-mail asking about it and did not hear back from you.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 4/29/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 4:24 PM
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
a sad story in regards to a new Firefly pilot....
about 12 years ago...I got a call from
Travis telling me that a guy
in Va had bent his cage crow hopping....and that he was
coming to the
factory to get a new one and that I could have the old cage
for travel
expenses...So off I went to meet the guy and buy the bent
cage... Turns
out it was lightly damaged and in much better than the one I
had just
bent..dropping my Firefly in from 50 or so feet...
In meeting the guy...I learned that he was
trying to master flying
on his own...
I thought I did a good job of
putting the fear of God in him and he
promised to get some air time while in Florida over the next
month.....
long story short...he made the newspaper in
Roanoke,Va... never made
it to Fla....Herb
On 04/29/2016 01:47 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when
in the air."
>
> Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi
exercise. Fast taxi and
> a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to
flight in the blink
> of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot
has found himself in that
> situation.
>
> If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I
had become qualified
> to fly the Firefly.
>
> My opinion only.
>
> john h
> MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe
> 912ULS-800.0 hours engine
> 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC
> Titus, Alabama
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of flywithme
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
>
>
> Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i
don't intend to try
> to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am
trying to evaluate
> the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole
ultralite concept. i will
> probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi
around the place
> just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite
aircraft. i need to
> familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its
different aspects
> and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs
the firefly has that
> i should address while i am getting some instruction? i
have been going over
> all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for
anything that could
> cause a problem when in the air.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Question about building vertical fin |
Are you working on the rear tube of the upper vertical stabilizer to the top of
the tail post?
If you are, 1/4" slop between tail post and trailing edge is way too much. I think
that is what you said, 1/8" space on each side.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin
Putting black electrical tape on would not be the best solution, because we're
talking 1/8 inch on both sides of the smaller tube to make it "even" with the
larger tube. That's way too much tape I'm guessing.
I had been using Clecos extensively, like any self-respecting sheet metal Cessna
modification/repair guy :) My error was to do the drill/cleco/rivet operation
on one side of the top of the fin, before cleco'ing the other side of the fin.
So without any resistance from the other side, the clecos and rivets on the
first side just pulled the gusset over tight against the first side. I realized
the error just about as the last rivet went pop !
I can easily shim the other side of the fin leading edge tube with a piece of wood,
sanded to a taper. That will allow me to continue the structural assembly
without weakening or goobering out the holes by having to drill again and enlarge
the hole. A wood shim will make it so the leading edge of the fin is perfectly
on the centerline of the rest of the fin. As an old washed up free flight
model builder, I thankfully have a supply of balsa and spruce sticks :)
What I learned from watching this forum (and speaking to a Zenair builder) was
the technique of driving out the mandrel first before drilling off the SS rivet.That
has allowed me to remove a few rivets without damaging the hole in the
tube or wrecking the sheet metal gusset. I was pleasantly surprised by the fact
that it was not a big bloody battle to drive out the mandrel.
I do have several "hole finder" tools that can match the rivet holes,a nd they
work reasonably well, but not perfectly. With blind rivets you lose the big advantage
that solid AN rivets give you, which is the rivet truly filling an oblong
hole. Thehole for a pop rivet must be better quality.
I also notice that the instruction booklet does not specify the rivets, it only
says "stainless steel rivets are 3 times stronger than aluminum". A bag of rivets
came witht his kit,a nd I have made the assumption that they were supplied
by Kolb. Does anyone know this is right or wrong?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 4/29/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 3:48 PM
I believe in the Ultrastar,
Firestar, and MKIII (before the days of the MKIIIx) construction manuals black
plastic electrical tape can be used as a shim to give the two different size
tubes a snug fit. I don't remember there being a "fitting" problem when building
the tail section. By all means build you parts with cleco's first.
They are much easier to drill out than case hardened mandrels. Would have thought
any self respecting engineer would have known that. wink...wink
;-) If I wasn't happy with the
fit, I'd drill the rivets and start over. Might as well get practice removing
SS rivets now. You'll need that expertise later on for sure. I'll bet you
can figure out how to set the new holes to match the ones in the blind tube.
john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Baker
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:12 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin Bill,
Are you using Clecos to hold the parts together prior to permanent riveting?
Jim Baker
405 426
5377
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:56
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Question about building vertical fin--> Kolb-List message
posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers, and have
started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring.
As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar"
tube on the back of the fin is one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4
inch tube. When I riveted the gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled"
the 3/4 inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So
when I went to install the gusset on the other side I realized the fin leading
edge is no longer on the centerline of the fin.
I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right from a
quality perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't want to drill
out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially since I cannot 100%
locate those previous holes if I want to replace the tube.
Has anyone else run into this while building the fin?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com
- safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities =============== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic===========
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
============ your generous support!
p;
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
============
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
Thanks very much for the advice! it is much appreciated!! i don't plan on any fast
taxi and really glad you all warned me about just popping unexpectedly into
the air. i can see with such a lite plane how this can happen very sudden. when
the time comes after some instruction i have a 2800 grass runway to practice
on. i need to do a search for first flights on this site to read as much as
i can on this platform so i will be less surprised by it's characteristics. thanks
again and don't be afraid to tell me how it is,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455665#455665
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
I heard about them , same as you, here on the list...someone else posted
the info...
I am the one with the short "tube"! :-) Herb
On 04/29/2016 09:27 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Herb what is the deal with the guy in CA with the tailboom tubes for sale? I
sent you an e-mail asking about it and did not hear back from you.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 4/29/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 4:24 PM
>
> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
> a sad story in regards to a new Firefly pilot....
> about 12 years ago...I got a call from
> Travis telling me that a guy
> in Va had bent his cage crow hopping....and that he was
> coming to the
> factory to get a new one and that I could have the old cage
> for travel
> expenses...So off I went to meet the guy and buy the bent
> cage... Turns
> out it was lightly damaged and in much better than the one I
> had just
> bent..dropping my Firefly in from 50 or so feet...
>
> In meeting the guy...I learned that he was
> trying to master flying
> on his own...
>
> I thought I did a good job of
> putting the fear of God in him and he
> promised to get some air time while in Florida over the next
> month.....
>
> long story short...he made the newspaper in
> Roanoke,Va... never made
> it to Fla....Herb
>
> On 04/29/2016 01:47 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> >
> > The pilot will be the primary "cause of a problem when
> in the air."
> >
> > Be very careful during your familiarization to taxi
> exercise. Fast taxi and
> > a gust of wind will have you airborne and committed to
> flight in the blink
> > of an eye. More than one inexperienced Kolb pilot
> has found himself in that
> > situation.
> >
> > If it was me, I'd wait for taxi exercises until after I
> had become qualified
> > to fly the Firefly.
> >
> > My opinion only.
> >
> > john h
> > MKIII-3,400.00 hours airframe
> > 912ULS-800.0 hours engine
> > 6,000.00+ hours Kolb PIC
> > Titus, Alabama
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of flywithme
> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 12:19 PM
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the replies. I already have a firefly but i
> don't intend to try
> > to fly it until i get some instruction. right now i am
> trying to evaluate
> > the aircraft and familiarize myself with the whole
> ultralite concept. i will
> > probably unfold the airplane and do some extensive taxi
> around the place
> > just to familiarize myself with the feel of such a lite
> aircraft. i need to
> > familiarize myself with the Rotax engine and all of its
> different aspects
> > and maintenance needs etc. are there any special needs
> the firefly has that
> > i should address while i am getting some instruction? i
> have been going over
> > all of the welds,cables,hoses and wires etc looking for
> anything that could
> > cause a problem when in the air.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455624#455624
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
> Foster...Third red light and turn left.
>
>
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Re: Question about building vertical fin |
any chance you could put the tube in a vise and oval it slightly so the
transition is less abrupt without weakening anything...
Boyd
On Apr 29, 2016 2:59 PM, "Bill Berle" <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have finished constructing the two triangular horizontal stabilizers, and
have started on the vertical fin and steel rear fuselage ring.
As many of you know by heart, the vertical "spar" tube on the back of the
fin is one inch diameter tube. The leading edge is 3/4 inch tube. When I
riveted the gusset to one side of this intersection, it "pulled" the 3/4
inch tube over flush with the side of the one inch tube. So when I went to
install the gusset on the other side I realized the fin leading edge is no
longer on the centerline of the fin.
I'm sure this is not a BIG deal in terms of safety, but it's not right from
a quality perspective. Is there a known "fix" for this? I don't want to
drill out the rivets and goober up the rivet holes, especially since I
cannot 100% locate those previous holes if I want to replace the tube.
Has anyone else run into this while building the fin?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
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