Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:04 AM - Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Herb)
2. 06:19 AM - Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (racerjerry)
3. 06:30 AM - Re: new to Kolb list (flywithme)
4. 06:33 AM - Re: new to Kolb list (flywithme)
5. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (John Hauck)
6. 07:54 AM - Missed my lunch reservations. (west1m)
7. 08:32 AM - Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Richard Girard)
8. 08:43 AM - Re: Missed my lunch reservations. (Richard Girard)
9. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Rick Neilsen)
10. 09:04 AM - Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Herb)
11. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Larry Cottrell)
12. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (John Hauck)
13. 09:18 AM - snow what??? (Herb)
14. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: new to Kolb list (Stuart Harner)
15. 09:31 AM - Re: Missed my lunch reservations. (west1m)
16. 10:59 AM - Re: snow what??? (Bill Berle)
17. 11:10 AM - Re: snow what??? (John Hauck)
18. 11:43 AM - Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Stuart Harner)
19. 11:44 AM - Re: snow what??? (Herb)
20. 12:00 PM - Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Bill Berle)
21. 12:01 PM - Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Herb)
22. 12:08 PM - Re: snow what??? (w0odi)
23. 12:16 PM - Re: snow what??? (Bill Berle)
24. 12:27 PM - Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? (Stuart Harner)
25. 01:18 PM - Re: snow what??? (John Hauck)
26. 01:25 PM - Re: snow what??? (Larry Cottrell)
27. 01:28 PM - Fw: snow what??? (Larry Cottrell)
28. 02:02 PM - Re: snow what??? (Bill Berle)
29. 02:24 PM - Re: snow what??? (Herb)
30. 02:39 PM - Re: snow what??? (Herb)
31. 02:51 PM - Re: snow what??? (John Hauck)
32. 03:21 PM - Re: snow what??? (Bill Berle)
33. 03:36 PM - Re: snow what??? (Herb)
34. 03:52 PM - Re: snow what??? (John Hauck)
35. 03:56 PM - Firefly Accident...too late now...! (Herb)
36. 04:00 PM - Re: snow what??? (Bill Berle)
37. 04:03 PM - Re: snow what??? (Larry Cottrell)
38. 04:07 PM - Re:great white hunter... (Herb)
39. 04:12 PM - firefly accident in Ill.. (Herb)
40. 04:46 PM - Re: snow what??? (Herb)
41. 05:54 PM - Re: snow what??? (pcking)
42. 07:44 PM - ground aerobatics... (Herb)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low
time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very
well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS...:-) I mentioned on
the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument
panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the
foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those
tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
>
> On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I
believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written
assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory
an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very
glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested.
But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a
better manual..
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
>
> Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> Ever year we have several members finish their
> projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
> would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
> experience could create a Kolb Flying Tips document
> of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
> projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
> get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
> will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
> dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
> be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
> are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
> one of the company owner would have printed some of the
> information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
> to it. What do you think?
>
> Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
> the support and knowledge of this group!
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, Alaska
> PAAQ
>
> Kolbra Kit #1
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
The very best thing a new Kolb pilot can do is to GET DUAL INSTRUCTION in a 2-place
KOLB. Let me rephrase that - It is the ONLY thing to do!
The sight picture and flight characteristics of any side-by-side 2-place Kolb are
nearly the same as a single seat Kolb and VERY different from a Champ.
A while back, we had a very experienced GA pilot stall/mush a perfectly good ultralight
clear into the ground on its first flight because of the differences.
In this case, it was not a Kolb. The combination of light weight, very draggy
airframe and high thrust line of the pusher prop in a Kolb can quickly get
you into trouble if you do not know what to expect.
When you get off the throttle, you must be ready to immediately apply forward stick
to maintain airspeed. Very unlike a Champ that has the weight and inertia
to keep up speed.
Fly 'em to the ground with power not completely off (at least in the beginning)
and Kolbs are very safe and an absolute joy to fly. Well, at least they are
a joy when the winds are not howling.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455786#455786
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
yes a fly inn would be great although i need to repair the runway first. it would
be fun to meet other Kolb owners and get to see their airplanes and pick their
brains for wisdom.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455788#455788
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
I have a few questions. on my firefly i have differential brakes that are cable
operated and the levers are on the control stick. if when landing i have one
hand on the throttle and i need brakes do i need to be carefull not to ground
loop? should i change to a single lever?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455789#455789
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Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed. No stall. Pretty
simple.
Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall. Can be fatal.
I started flying Kolbs in 1984. I still keep a close cross check on my
airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.
Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying for
24 years. It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,
shoot my approaches about 50 mph. I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop the
flaps above 70. Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting to
rough for me to be comfortable.
My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and
about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees). I think these will be a few mph
slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind and
weather lightens up a bit.
I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I
have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with 150
lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.
Sorry I am not more help. I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it
as simple as possible.
The above works for me. I don't know if it will work for you or not. Does
that relieve me of liability? ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of racerjerry
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 8:19 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
The very best thing a new Kolb pilot can do is to GET DUAL INSTRUCTION in a
2-place KOLB. Let me rephrase that - It is the ONLY thing to do!
The sight picture and flight characteristics of any side-by-side 2-place
Kolb are nearly the same as a single seat Kolb and VERY different from a
Champ.
A while back, we had a very experienced GA pilot stall/mush a perfectly good
ultralight clear into the ground on its first flight because of the
differences. In this case, it was not a Kolb. The combination of light
weight, very draggy airframe and high thrust line of the pusher prop in a
Kolb can quickly get you into trouble if you do not know what to expect.
When you get off the throttle, you must be ready to immediately apply
forward stick to maintain airspeed. Very unlike a Champ that has the weight
and inertia to keep up speed.
Fly 'em to the ground with power not completely off (at least in the
beginning) and Kolbs are very safe and an absolute joy to fly. Well, at
least they are a joy when the winds are not howling.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455786#455786
Message 6
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Subject: | Missed my lunch reservations. |
This is a copy of an email I sent a friend (easier than retyping)
It should have been a good day for a hundred dollar hamburger!
I flew to Menomomnie checked out the huge Walmart distribution center. Filled up
with
fuel and headed to Chetek for a burger at Reds Food Emporium.
Well I almost made it...
The idiot light came on and told me the alternator quit. Decision time!
I am only about 8-9 miles from Chetek, been flying about 20 miles so far.
Can't fix anything in Chetek so I decided to head back to New Richmond.
Punched in KRNH and the GPS says 40 miles....
About 10 miles further the EIS quit, no gages alt, gas gauge, rpm, etc.
in another 5 mi or so the I-Fly GPS quits. Good thing I rely on my Goecaching hand
held!
Anyway I made it back with fumes to spare..
I haven't had time to check it out yet so I don't know if it's the alt, reg, or
wiring issue. but the batt sure went dead fast after the alt quit, the only thing
running is the EIS , I-Fly and a fuel gauge sender on the tank
I'll get out the meter but off hand does this seem like a lot of power use for
a Rotax alt?
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455793#455793
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/menomomnie_may2_614.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3928_603.jpg
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional
project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real
morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous when
it comes to selling. You can have all the flying manuals you want but if
the plane is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual
parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real trouble.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low
> time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very
> well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS...:-) I mentioned on th
e
> comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument
> panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the
> foam joy stick grip?? Herb
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
>
>
> On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
>>
>> Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors
>> of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
>>
>> On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane
>> guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly
>> manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally,
>> and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my
>> services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual
>> rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they
>> may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
>>
>> Bill Berle
>> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
>> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
>> for-profit entities
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
>> Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
>> Kolbers,
>> Ever year we have several =9Cmembers=9D finish their
>> projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
>> would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
>> experience could create a =9CKolb Flying Tips =9C document
>> of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
>> projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
>> get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
>> will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
>> do=99s and don=99t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
>> be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
>> are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
>> one of the company owner would have printed some of the
>> information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
>> to it. What do you think?
>> Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
>> the support and knowledge of this group!
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, Alaska
>> PAAQ
>> Kolbra Kit #1
>> Forum -
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and
> turn left.
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Missed my lunch reservations. |
You didn't mention what battery you have in the airplane. This should be a
cautionary tale to those who run batteries with sketchy specs. Imagine what
the results might have been if you'd had an electrically dependent ignition
system.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:54 AM, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is a copy of an email I sent a friend (easier than retyping)
>
> It should have been a good day for a hundred dollar hamburger!
> I flew to Menomomnie checked out the huge Walmart distribution center.
> Filled up with
> fuel and headed to Chetek for a burger at Reds Food Emporium.
> Well I almost made it...
> The idiot light came on and told me the alternator quit. Decision time!
> I am only about 8-9 miles from Chetek, been flying about 20 miles so far.
> Can't fix anything in Chetek so I decided to head back to New Richmond.
> Punched in KRNH and the GPS says 40 miles....
> About 10 miles further the EIS quit, no gages alt, gas gauge, rpm, etc.
> in another 5 mi or so the I-Fly GPS quits. Good thing I rely on my
> Goecaching hand held!
> Anyway I made it back with fumes to spare..
>
> I haven't had time to check it out yet so I don't know if it's the alt,
> reg, or wiring issue. but the batt sure went dead fast after the alt quit
,
> the only thing running is the EIS , I-Fly and a fuel gauge sender on the
> tank
>
> I'll get out the meter but off hand does this seem like a lot of power us
e
> for a Rotax alt?
>
> --------
> West1m
> Hastings, MN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455793#455793
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/menomomnie_may2_614.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3928_603.jpg
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a identically
built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing. Indicated air
speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more than others. Your
static source is the most common point of inaccuracy. Adding to that our
planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or structural failure at
different actual air speeds.
We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings.
Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane showed
inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few flights, right
when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.
Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use
the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot.
Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated
air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different
attitudes especially when it stalls.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:58 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed. No stall. Pretty
> simple.
>
> Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall. Can be fatal.
>
> I started flying Kolbs in 1984. I still keep a close cross check on my
> airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.
>
> Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying
> for
> 24 years. It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,
> shoot my approaches about 50 mph. I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop
> the
> flaps above 70. Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting
> to
> rough for me to be comfortable.
>
> My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and
> about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees). I think these will be a few mph
> slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind and
> weather lightens up a bit.
>
> I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I
> have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with
> 150
> lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.
>
> Sorry I am not more help. I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it
> as simple as possible.
>
> The above works for me. I don't know if it will work for you or not. Does
> that relieve me of liability? ;-)
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of racerjerry
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 8:19 AM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
>
>
> The very best thing a new Kolb pilot can do is to GET DUAL INSTRUCTION in a
> 2-place KOLB. Let me rephrase that - It is the ONLY thing to do!
>
> The sight picture and flight characteristics of any side-by-side 2-place
> Kolb are nearly the same as a single seat Kolb and VERY different from a
> Champ.
>
> A while back, we had a very experienced GA pilot stall/mush a perfectly
> good
> ultralight clear into the ground on its first flight because of the
> differences. In this case, it was not a Kolb. The combination of light
> weight, very draggy airframe and high thrust line of the pusher prop in a
> Kolb can quickly get you into trouble if you do not know what to expect.
>
> When you get off the throttle, you must be ready to immediately apply
> forward stick to maintain airspeed. Very unlike a Champ that has the
> weight
> and inertia to keep up speed.
>
> Fly 'em to the ground with power not completely off (at least in the
> beginning) and Kolbs are very safe and an absolute joy to fly. Well, at
> least they are a joy when the winds are not howling.
>
> --------
> Jerry King
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455786#455786
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link
below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional
> project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some
> real morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely
> unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying
> manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't
> fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little skill can
> find himself in real trouble.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>>
>
> When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about
> a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is
> doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS...:-)
> I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have
> painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day??
> Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
>
>
> On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net <mailto:victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>>
>
> Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect
> the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the
> s**t hits the fan.
>
> On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced
> "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an
> improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and
> construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the
> factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services.
> I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual
> rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their
> decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a
> better manual..
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com <http://www.ezflaphandle.com> - safety &
> performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net <http://www.grantstar.net> -
> winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net
> <mailto:nickc@mtaonline.net>> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
> Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net <mailto:nickc@mtaonline.net>>
> Kolbers,
> Ever year we have several members finish their
> projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
> would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
> experience could create a Kolb Flying Tips document
> of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
> projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
> get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
> will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
> dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
> be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
> are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
> one of the company owner would have printed some of the
> information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
> to it. What do you think?
> Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
> the support and knowledge of this group!
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, Alaska
> PAAQ
> Kolbra Kit #1
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red
> light and turn left.
>
>
> ==========
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
>
>
> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
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Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
Just to add to the good advice given you by Rick, I make it a practice when
flying a strange airplane, to get up about a 1000 feet and do a stall,
checking where it stalls on the ASI. That will give you the knowledge that
you will need to safely get it back on the ground again. It doesn't matter
whether the ASI is correct or not, what you need is to know is how much
faster you need it to read to keep from stalling.
I once tested a guy's Firestar that had put every bell and whistle on that
he could think of. It was at close to max gross with me as pilot. I
carefully flew it off the ground and up to 1000 feet agl. Wide open
throttle the ASI showed 60 MPH. I throttled back and it stalled at 56 MPH.
Needless to say I did a wheel landing when I got it on the ground.
Larry
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
> Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a identically
> built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing. Indicated air
> speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more than others. Your
> static source is the most common point of inaccuracy. Adding to that our
> planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or structural failure at
> different actual air speeds.
>
> We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings.
> Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane showed
> inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few flights, right
> when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.
>
> Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use
> the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot.
> Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated
> air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different
> attitudes especially when it stalls.
>
> Again worth what you paid for it.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:58 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed. No stall. Pretty
>> simple.
>>
>> Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall. Can be fatal.
>>
>> I started flying Kolbs in 1984. I still keep a close cross check on my
>> airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.
>>
>> Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying
>> for
>> 24 years. It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,
>> shoot my approaches about 50 mph. I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop
>> the
>> flaps above 70. Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting
>> to
>> rough for me to be comfortable.
>>
>> My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and
>> about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees). I think these will be a few mph
>> slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind
>> and
>> weather lightens up a bit.
>>
>> I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I
>> have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with
>> 150
>> lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.
>>
>> Sorry I am not more help. I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it
>> as simple as possible.
>>
>> The above works for me. I don't know if it will work for you or not.
>> Does
>> that relieve me of liability? ;-)
>>
>> john h
>> mkIII
>> Titus, Alabama
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of racerjerry
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 8:19 AM
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
>>
>>
>> The very best thing a new Kolb pilot can do is to GET DUAL INSTRUCTION in
>> a
>> 2-place KOLB. Let me rephrase that - It is the ONLY thing to do!
>>
>> The sight picture and flight characteristics of any side-by-side 2-place
>> Kolb are nearly the same as a single seat Kolb and VERY different from a
>> Champ.
>>
>> A while back, we had a very experienced GA pilot stall/mush a perfectly
>> good
>> ultralight clear into the ground on its first flight because of the
>> differences. In this case, it was not a Kolb. The combination of light
>> weight, very draggy airframe and high thrust line of the pusher prop in a
>> Kolb can quickly get you into trouble if you do not know what to expect.
>>
>> When you get off the throttle, you must be ready to immediately apply
>> forward stick to maintain airspeed. Very unlike a Champ that has the
>> weight
>> and inertia to keep up speed.
>>
>> Fly 'em to the ground with power not completely off (at least in the
>> beginning) and Kolbs are very safe and an absolute joy to fly. Well, at
>> least they are a joy when the winds are not howling.
>>
>> --------
>> Jerry King
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455786#455786
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
Allow me to add to Rick's comments. Although the ASI may not be
calibrated correctly, huge error between indicated and true airspeed, as
long as it is operational and you have checked, it will indicate stall
speed.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a
identically built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing.
Indicated air speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more
than others. Your static source is the most common point of inaccuracy.
Adding to that our planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or
structural failure at different actual air speeds.
We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings.
Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane
showed inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few
flights, right when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.
Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use
the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot.
Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated
air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different
attitudes especially when it stalls.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
Message 13
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Guys ...after learning that the new owner was not the one flying the
Firefly..and seeing the latest post on the youtube site...
this is my email to the owner....can I do more?? Herb
I understand that you were not the one flying the Firefly in that video?
I cannot emphasize enough...this plane will kill you dead....Kolbs have
a very sharp stall!! Typically getting too slow on landing and dropping
a wing and hitting the ground Very Bad!!! If you are lucky , it will
mush in and bend the landing gear and bend the frame...but you will
still get something broken....
You must get some dual instruction in another plane of similar
characteristics..!! Mark III or Firestar II...
Please do not orphan those kids!!! I will buy it back and come and
get it...Herb
On 05/03/2016 11:04 AM, Herb wrote:
> Rick
>
> My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link
> below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
>> After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional
>> project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some
>> real morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely
>> unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying
>> manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't
>> fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little skill can
>> find himself in real trouble.
>>
>> Rick Girard
>>
>> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com
>> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried
>> about a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that
>> he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a
>> BRS...:-) I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to
>> not have painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing
>> that day?? Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
>>
>> <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect
>> the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the
>> s**t hits the fan.
>>
>> On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced
>> "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an
>> improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and
>> construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the
>> factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my
>> services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly
>> manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their
>> decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a
>> better manual..
>>
>> Bill Berle
>> www.ezflaphandle.com <http://www.ezflaphandle.com> - safety &
>> performance upgrade for light aircraft
>> www.grantstar.net <http://www.grantstar.net> -
>> winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
>> Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net <mailto:nickc@mtaonline.net>>
>> Kolbers,
>> Ever year we have several members finish their
>> projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
>> would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
>> experience could create a Kolb Flying Tips document
>> of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
>> projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
>> get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
>> will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
>> dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
>> be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
>> are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
>> one of the company owner would have printed some of the
>> information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
>> to it. What do you think?
>> Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
>> the support and knowledge of this group!
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, Alaska
>> PAAQ
>> Kolbra Kit #1
>> Forum -
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red
>> light and turn left.
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
>> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: new to Kolb list |
First question, yes.
If you have enough airspeed that the tail is up, you have rudder but it is
still a tail dragger and they are always trying to swap ends while on the
ground. Remember the center of gravity is behind the main gear and wants to
be in front of it. It is up to the pilot to make a tail dragger stays in the
unnatural state of wheels first.
Second question, maybe.
That is probably something you will have to learn how to coordinate during
taxi tests. Once your fingers learn the routine it will probably not be an
issue.
Having said that, I can see where hand levers could cause a problem on a
bounce or a gust of wind. I have toe brakes and the same could probably be
said of them.
During initial taxi tests I discovered that my brakes were not adjusted the
same from side to side. I stopped and corrected that before continuing on
with tests. No sense in testing something with a known abnormality that
might cover up something else.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flywithme
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 8:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: new to Kolb list
I have a few questions. on my firefly i have differential brakes that are
cable operated and the levers are on the control stick. if when landing i
have one hand on the throttle and i need brakes do i need to be carefull not
to ground loop? should i change to a single lever?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455789#455789
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Missed my lunch reservations. |
The Batt is two seasons old one of the light weight lithium, I believe 12amp /hr?
(no spec here). Rotax 447 motor
The independent ignition system was the biggest factor in my pressing on back
to KRNH. next was the fuel, there were a lot of farmers out working I might have
been able to stop and get fuel but no rope start, would have to hand prop.
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455809#455809
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
Looking at the youtube video, it appears as though the pilot is having to hold
the stick 10 degrees to the right for "normal" level flight.
Experienced Kolb pilots - is this correct? Is this just camera parallax? Is this
particular airplane not rigged right?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: snow what???
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 9:17 AM
Guys ...after learning that the new owner was not the
one flying the
Firefly..and seeing the latest post on the youtube
site...
this is my email to the owner....can I do more??
Herb
I understand that you were not the one flying the
Firefly in that
video?
I cannot emphasize enough...this plane will kill you
dead....Kolbs
have a very sharp stall!! Typically getting too slow on
landing and
dropping a wing and hitting the ground Very Bad!!!
If you are
lucky , it will mush in and bend the landing gear and
bend the
frame...but you will still get something broken....
You must get some dual instruction in another
plane of similar
characteristics..!! Mark III or Firestar II...
Please do not orphan those kids!!! I will buy it
back and come
and get it...Herb
On 05/03/2016
11:04 AM, Herb wrote:
Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You
tube at the
link below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On
05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard
Girard wrote:
After my experience with the
"Plane from Hell", I
think a additional project should be a "how
to inspect a Kolb
(model). There are some real morons out there when
it comes to
building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes
to selling.
You can have all the flying manuals you want but
if the plane
is poorly built it probably won't fly within
the manual
parameters and a pilot with little skill can find
himself in
real trouble.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May
3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb
<Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:
-->
Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was
naturally
worried about a low time pilot....but this
video seems to
indicate that he is doing very well...guide or
no...I
notice he installed a BRS...:-) I mentioned
on the
comments that it was a Herbup to not have
painted the
instrument panel...must have been dozing that
day?? Not
sure what happened to the foam joy stick
grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
Great idea on the piloting tips, so
long as you can
protect the authors of those tips from
liability or
blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder
but an
experienced "airplane guy", I
believe there is also
a strong need for an improved assembly
manual. I
have written assembly and construction
manuals
professionally, and I have sent the
factory an
e-mail that mentioned this and offered
my services.
I would be very glad to participate in
the assembly
manual rewrite if the factory is
interested. But it
is their decision, and they may not
agree that there
is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com
- safety & performance upgrade for
light
aircraft
www.grantstar.net
-
winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit
entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new
Pilot Guide to
Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted
by:
Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several
members finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our
group. I
think it
would be a good thing if those of you
with Kolb
flying
experience could create a Kolb
Flying Tips
document
of some sort. I hope to joint the
group of
completed
projects this summer, and I know the
best think to
do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know,
that flying
my Kolb
will be different than flying the
Champ. So how
about a
dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I
know that there
will
be differences in every Kolb built
and each model,
but what
are the average V speeds for each
model? I would
think that
one of the company owner would have
printed some
of the
information, but if they have I have
never heard a
reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have
never gotten this
far without
the support and knowledge of this
group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
==========
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
==========
FORUMS -
eferrer"
target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
WIKI -
errer"
target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
==========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Blessed are
the cracked, for they shall let in the
light. Groucho
Marx
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
red light and turn left.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
red light and turn left.
Message 17
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|
I didn't notice the position of the stick. Was too busy looking out at the countryside.
One can rig the stick anywhere it is comfortable for him, by adjusting aileron
push/pull tubes, and elevator cable turn buckles.
I like mine to fall into my hand when I am in a nice comfortable relaxed position
with my right elbow on my right thigh.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
Looking at the youtube video, it appears as though the pilot is having to hold
the stick 10 degrees to the right for "normal" level flight.
Experienced Kolb pilots - is this correct? Is this just camera parallax? Is this
particular airplane not rigged right?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: snow what???
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 9:17 AM
Guys ...after learning that the new owner was not the one flying the
Firefly..and seeing the latest post on the youtube site...
this is my email to the owner....can I do more?? Herb
I understand that you were not the one flying the Firefly in that
video?
I cannot emphasize enough...this plane will kill you dead....Kolbs
have a very sharp stall!! Typically getting too slow on landing and
dropping a wing and hitting the ground Very Bad!!! If you are
lucky , it will mush in and bend the landing gear and bend the
frame...but you will still get something broken....
You must get some dual instruction in another plane of similar
characteristics..!! Mark III or Firestar II...
Please do not orphan those kids!!! I will buy it back and come
and get it...Herb
On 05/03/2016
11:04 AM, Herb wrote:
Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the
link below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On
05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard
Girard wrote:
After my experience with the
"Plane from Hell", I
think a additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb
(model). There are some real morons out there when it comes to
building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling.
You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane
is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual
parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in
real trouble.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May
3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb
<Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:
-->
Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally
worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems to
indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I
notice he installed a BRS...:-) I mentioned on the
comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the
instrument panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not
sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can
protect the authors of those tips from liability or
blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an
experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also
a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I
have written assembly and construction manuals
professionally, and I have sent the factory an
e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services.
I would be very glad to participate in the assembly
manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it
is their decision, and they may not agree that there
is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com
- safety & performance upgrade for light
aircraft
www.grantstar.net
-
winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit
entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to
Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted
by:
Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several members finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I
think it
would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb
flying
experience could create a Kolb Flying Tips
document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of
completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to
do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying
my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how
about a
dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I know that there
will
be differences in every Kolb built and each model,
but what
are the average V speeds for each model? I would
think that
one of the company owner would have printed some
of the
information, but if they have I have never heard a
reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this
far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
==========
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
==========
FORUMS -
eferrer"
target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
WIKI -
errer"
target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
==========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Blessed are
the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
Marx
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 18
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|
Subject: | How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
Scared the crap out of me just watching it. Of course I am a known
chicken in the air.
If I wanted to fly like that I would have a Citabria, not a Firefly.
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link
below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional
project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real
morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous
when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying manuals you want
but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual
parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real
trouble.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low
time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very
well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS...:-) I mentioned on
the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument
panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the
foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors
of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane
guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly
manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally,
and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my
services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual
rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they
may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several =9Cmembers=9D finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
experience could create a =9CKolb Flying Tips =9C document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
do=99s and don=99t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed some of the
information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light
and turn left.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> Groucho Marx
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light
and turn left.
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
I noticed that and have just chatted with the guy who flew the
plane...he said it flew perfectly...no problems at all...and he has 20+
plus years in Kolbs... owns a Fly... Several Kolbs at the field...
I then assumed camera angle...but did not think to ask...after his
"perfectly" statement...
Up shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did considerable
damage which the club members (a lot of expertise in that club!!) have
repaired..to the extent that the repair is hardly noticeable...
To be honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been great
if it was not fixable!!! :-(
We have developed a plan to help save this guy.... lets hope....
(wife and kids are last resort!!) Herb
On 05/03/2016 12:56 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Looking at the youtube video, it appears as though the pilot is having to hold
the stick 10 degrees to the right for "normal" level flight.
>
> Experienced Kolb pilots - is this correct? Is this just camera parallax? Is this
particular airplane not rigged right?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: snow what???
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 9:17 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Guys ...after learning that the new owner was not the
> one flying the
> Firefly..and seeing the latest post on the youtube
> site...
>
>
>
> this is my email to the owner....can I do more??
> Herb
>
>
>
>
>
> I understand that you were not the one flying the
> Firefly in that
> video?
>
>
>
> I cannot emphasize enough...this plane will kill you
> dead....Kolbs
> have a very sharp stall!! Typically getting too slow on
> landing and
> dropping a wing and hitting the ground Very Bad!!!
> If you are
> lucky , it will mush in and bend the landing gear and
> bend the
> frame...but you will still get something broken....
>
>
>
> You must get some dual instruction in another
> plane of similar
> characteristics..!! Mark III or Firestar II...
>
>
>
> Please do not orphan those kids!!! I will buy it
> back and come
> and get it...Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016
> 11:04 AM, Herb wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You
> tube at the
> link below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
>
>
>
> On
> 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard
> Girard wrote:
>
>
>
> After my experience with the
> "Plane from Hell", I
> think a additional project should be a "how
> to inspect a Kolb
> (model). There are some real morons out there when
> it comes to
> building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes
> to selling.
> You can have all the flying manuals you want but
> if the plane
> is poorly built it probably won't fly within
> the manual
> parameters and a pilot with little skill can find
> himself in
> real trouble.
>
>
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
>
> On Tue, May
> 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb
> <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> wrote:
>
> -->
> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
>
>
> When I sold the Firefly last month...I was
> naturally
> worried about a low time pilot....but this
> video seems to
> indicate that he is doing very well...guide or
> no...I
> notice he installed a BRS...:-) I mentioned
> on the
> comments that it was a Herbup to not have
> painted the
> instrument panel...must have been dozing that
> day?? Not
> sure what happened to the foam joy stick
> grip?? Herb
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
>
> Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>
> Great idea on the piloting tips, so
> long as you can
> protect the authors of those tips from
> liability or
> blame when the s**t hits the fan.
>
>
>
> On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder
> but an
> experienced "airplane guy", I
> believe there is also
> a strong need for an improved assembly
> manual. I
> have written assembly and construction
> manuals
> professionally, and I have sent the
> factory an
> e-mail that mentioned this and offered
> my services.
> I would be very glad to participate in
> the assembly
> manual rewrite if the factory is
> interested. But it
> is their decision, and they may not
> agree that there
> is a need for a better manual..
>
>
>
> Bill Berle
>
> www.ezflaphandle.com
> - safety & performance upgrade for
> light
> aircraft
>
> www.grantstar.net
> -
> winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit
> entities
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new
> Pilot Guide to
> Kolb flying?
>
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
> Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted
> by:
>
> Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> Ever year we have several
> members finish their
>
> projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our
> group. I
> think it
>
> would be a good thing if those of you
> with Kolb
> flying
>
> experience could create a Kolb
> Flying Tips
> document
>
> of some sort. I hope to joint the
> group of
> completed
>
> projects this summer, and I know the
> best think to
> do is to
>
> get more time in a Champ, but I know,
> that flying
> my Kolb
>
> will be different than flying the
> Champ. So how
> about a
>
> dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I
> know that there
> will
>
> be differences in every Kolb built
> and each model,
> but what
>
> are the average V speeds for each
> model? I would
> think that
>
> one of the company owner would have
> printed some
> of the
>
> information, but if they have I have
> never heard a
> reference
>
> to it. What do you think?
>
> Thanks as always, I would have
> never gotten this
> far without
>
> the support and knowledge of this
> group!
>
> Nick Cassara
>
> Palmer, Alaska
>
> PAAQ
>
> Kolbra Kit #1
>
> Forum -
>
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>
> List Contribution Web Site -
>
> -Matt
>
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
> Sure...Mr.
> Foster...Third red light and turn
> left.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
>
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
> ==========
>
> FORUMS -
>
> eferrer"
> target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> ==========
>
> WIKI -
>
> errer"
> target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>
> ==========
>
> b Site -
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
> rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Blessed are
> the cracked, for they shall let in the
> light. Groucho
> Marx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
> red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
> red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 20
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|
Subject: | How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
"Scared the crap out of me just
watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the
air. If I wanted to fly like that I
would have a Citabria, not a Firefly."
Are we all talking about the traditional "wingover" maneuver that the guy did in
the video at the 3:04 mark and 3:58 mark? Or is there some sort of inverted
flat spin and Lomcevak he did that I didn't see when watching the video?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 11:43 AM
#yiv4032260202
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#yiv4032260202 Scared the crap out of me just
watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the
air. If I wanted to fly like that I
would have a Citabria, not a Firefly. Stuart From:
owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03,
2016 11:05 AM
To:
kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re:
Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb
flying? Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment
on You tube at the link below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM,
Richard Girard wrote:After my experience with the
"Plane from Hell", I think a additional project
should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are
some real morons out there when it comes to building and
absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can
have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is
poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual
parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in
real trouble.
Rick
Girard On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04
AM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:--> Kolb-List
message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
When I sold the Firefly last
month...I was naturally worried about a low time
pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing
very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a
BRS...:-) I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup
to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been
dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the foam joy
stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016
12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:--> Kolb-List message
posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
Great idea on the piloting
tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips
from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new
Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I
believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly
manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals
professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that
mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad
to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory
is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not
agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com
- safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit
entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
wrote:
Subject:
Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
Kolbers,
Ever year
we have several members finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group.
I think it
would be a good thing if those
of you with Kolb flying
experience could
create a Kolb Flying Tips document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best
think to do is to
get more time in a
Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I know
that there will
be differences in every
Kolb built and each model, but what
are
the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed
some of the
information, but if they have
I have never heard a reference
to it.
What do you think?
Thanks as always, I
would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST
WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
--
Signature
text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light
and turn left.
==========
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
==========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
==========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Blessed are the cracked, for
they shall let in the light. Groucho
Marx
-- Signature text; Fort
Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 21
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|
Subject: | Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
I was relieved to learn that the pilot had 40+ years in Kolbs and ga
planes... When I first believed it was the low time owner...I thought
that he was going to be safe in this little bird...flew
confidently...though putting the Fly through more paces in one flight
than I have in years...
They are strong....no doubt... I suspect that Dennis and John have
flown some interesting maneuvers... :-) Not sure if in a Fly however??
:-) Herb
On 05/03/2016 01:43 PM, Stuart Harner wrote:
>
> Scared the crap out of me just watching it. Of course I am a known
> chicken in the air.
>
> If I wanted to fly like that I would have a Citabria, not a Firefly.
>
> Stuart
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Herb
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 03, 2016 11:05 AM
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
>
> Rick
>
> My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link
> below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
> After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a
> additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model).
> There are some real morons out there when it comes to building and
> absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all
> the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it
> probably won't fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with
> little skill can find himself in real trouble.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>>
>
> When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about
> a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is
> doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS...:-)
> I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have
> painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day??
> Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
>
>
> On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net <mailto:victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>>
>
> Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the
> authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits
> the fan.
>
> On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced
> "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an
> improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction
> manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that
> mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to
> participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is
> interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that
> there is a need for a better manual..
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com <http://www.ezflaphandle.com> - safety &
> performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net <http://www.grantstar.net> - winning
> proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net
> <mailto:nickc@mtaonline.net>> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
> Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net <mailto:nickc@mtaonline.net>>
> Kolbers,
> Ever year we have several members finish their
> projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
> would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
> experience could create a Kolb Flying Tips document
> of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
> projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
> get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
> will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
> dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
> be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
> are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
> one of the company owner would have printed some of the
> information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
> to it. What do you think?
> Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
> the support and knowledge of this group!
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, Alaska
> PAAQ
> Kolbra Kit #1
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red
> light and turn left.
>
>
> ==========
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
>
>
> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
> Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
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Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
you can't fix arrogance or stupid but you can hopefully nip in the bud with the
wife.... sounds like the kind of person that knows it all and in reality don't
know JACK!! I don't own a kolb but I do have enough sense to know that I would
need training to fly it... that would be like climbing in a citabria and having
never flown and expecting to fly it like the experts.....Good luck guys..
the story scares me.. I fly a quicksilver and just lurk around here because of
the good info about flying in general.. I love the kolb and have ever since
seeing my first one at Oshkosh in 91.. This guy needs to re think his abilities..
I have seen these types.. they usually don't last to long.. I think he maybe
one of these the warning labels have been created for..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455824#455824
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/labelonly_sm_132.png
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
Can someone explain to me what is being discussed here, I'm afraid that I'm not
getting something that's important. What I am reading on this discussion forum
sounds like it is different than what people are upset or irritated about. I
must be missing a big piece of this story.
Here is what I am "hearing" on the discussion forum :
1) Herb sold his beautiful Firefly to someone, and
2) that someone (the buyer) allowed someone else (with 20+ years in Kolbs) to fly
it for that video, and
3) that highly experienced Kolb pilot did two traditional wingover maneuvers on
camera, and
4) the buyer of Herb's Firefly (who was not shown in the video) now needs to be
saved before something awful happens to his family.
I am NOT being a smart-ass (my usual self), I'm just missing part of the story
and I do not understand what specific thing happened that has ruined Herb's day,
made him so upset, who crashed the airplane and when, and why he would rather
have seen the airplane destroyed.
Another thing I think I noticed is that the farm where this video was taken APPEARS
to be the same farm where a previous youtube video was done showing the Kolb
doing numerous slow takeoffs and landings by a pretty good quality pilot.
Like I said, I am probably missing something significant... can someone clue me
in?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 11:44 AM
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
I noticed that and have just chatted with the guy who flew
the
plane...he said it flew perfectly...no problems at all...and
he has 20+
plus years in Kolbs... owns a Fly... Several Kolbs at the
field...
I then assumed camera angle...but did not
think to ask...after his
"perfectly" statement...
Up shot...the new owner put it on its
back..and did considerable
damage which the club members (a lot of expertise in that
club!!) have
repaired..to the extent that the repair is hardly
noticeable...
To be honest, after all that I have heard,, it would
have been great
if it was not fixable!!! :-(
We have developed a plan to help save this
guy.... lets hope....
(wife and kids are last resort!!)Herb
On 05/03/2016 12:56 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Looking at the youtube video, it appears as though the
pilot is having to hold the stick 10 degrees to the right
for "normal" level flight.
>
> Experienced Kolb pilots - is this correct? Is this just
camera parallax? Is this particular airplane not rigged
right?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:
>
>Subject: Kolb-List: snow what???
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 9:17 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Guys ...after learning
that the new owner was not the
>one flying the
> Firefly..and seeing the
latest post on the youtube
>site...
>
>
>
> this is my email
to the owner....can I do more??
>Herb
>
>
>
>
>
> I understand that you
were not the one flying the
>Firefly in that
> video?
>
>
>
> I cannot emphasize
enough...this plane will kill you
>dead....Kolbs
> have a very sharp
stall!! Typically getting too slow on
>landing and
> dropping a wing and
hitting the ground Very Bad!!!
>If you are
> lucky , it will mush in
and bend the landing gear and
>bend the
> frame...but you will
still get something broken....
>
>
>
> You must
get some dual instruction in another
>plane of similar
>
characteristics..!! Mark III or
Firestar II...
>
>
>
> Please do not
orphan those kids!!! I will buy it
>back and come
> and get it...Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016
>11:04 AM, Herb wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> My day is
ruined....check the latest comment on You
>tube at the
> link
below!!! I am sick!!!Herb
>
>
>
> On
>05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard
> Girard
wrote:
>
>
>
> After my
experience with the
>"Plane from Hell", I
>
think a additional project should be a
"how
>to inspect a Kolb
>
(model). There are some real morons out
there when
>it comes to
>
building and absolutely unscrupulous when
it comes
>to selling.
> You
can have all the flying manuals you want but
>if the plane
> is
poorly built it probably won't fly within
>the manual
>
parameters and a pilot with little skill
can find
>himself in
>
real trouble.
>
>
>
>
Rick Girard
>
>
>
> On
Tue, May
>3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb
>
<Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
wrote:
>
>
-->
>
Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
>
>
>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I
was
>naturally
>
worried about a low time pilot....but
this
>video seems to
>
indicate that he is doing very
well...guide or
>no...I
>
notice he installed a BRS...:-) I
mentioned
>on the
>
comments that it was a Herbup to not have
>painted the
>
instrument panel...must have been dozing
that
>day?? Not
>
sure what happened to the foam joy stick
>grip?? Herb
>
>
>
>
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
>
>
>
>
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle
wrote:
>
>
>
--> Kolb-List message
posted by: Bill
>Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>
>
Great idea on the
piloting tips, so
>long as you can
>
protect the authors of those
tips from
>liability or
>
blame when the s**t hits the
fan.
>
>
>
>
On a similar note, as a new
Kolb builder
>but an
>
experienced "airplane guy",
I
>believe there is also
>
a strong need for an
improved assembly
>manual. I
>
have written assembly and
construction
>manuals
>
professionally, and I have
sent the
>factory an
>
e-mail that mentioned this
and offered
>my services.
>
I would be very glad to
participate in
>the assembly
>
manual rewrite if the
factory is
>interested. But it
>
is their decision, and they
may not
>agree that there
>
is a need for a better
manual..
>
>
>
>
Bill Berle
>
>
www.ezflaphandle.com
>
- safety & performance
upgrade for
>light
>
aircraft
>
>
www.grantstar.net
> -
>
winning proposals for
non-profit and
>for-profit
>
entities
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------
>
>
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara
<nickc@mtaonline.net>
>
>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
Subject: Kolb-List:
How about a new
>Pilot Guide to
>
Kolb flying?
>
>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
>
Date: Monday, May 2,
2016, 9:26 PM
>
>
-->
Kolb-List message posted
>by:
>
>
Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
>
>
Kolbers,
>
>
Ever year we
have several
>members finish their
>
>
projects, or buy a
Kolb and joint our
>group. I
>
think it
>
>
would be a good thing
if those of you
>with Kolb
>
flying
>
>
experience could
create a Kolb
>Flying Tips
>
document
>
>
of some sort. I hope
to joint the
>group of
>
completed
>
>
projects this summer,
and I know the
>best think to
>
do is to
>
>
get more time in a
Champ, but I know,
>that flying
>
my Kolb
>
>
will be different
than flying the
>Champ. So how
>
about a
>
>
dos and dont of
fly the Kolb. I
>know that there
>
will
>
>
be differences in
every Kolb built
>and each model,
>
but what
>
>
are the average V
speeds for each
>model? I would
>
think that
>
>
one of the company
owner would have
>printed some
>
of the
>
>
information, but if
they have I have
>never heard a
>
reference
>
>
to it. What do you
think?
>
>
Thanks as
always, I would have
>never gotten this
>
far without
>
>
the support and
knowledge of this
>group!
>
>
Nick Cassara
>
>
Palmer, Alaska
>
>
PAAQ
>
>
Kolbra Kit #1
>
>
Forum -
>
>
- MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS -
>
>
MATRONICS LIST WIKI
-
>
>
List Contribution Web
Site -
>
>
-Matt
>
>
Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
>
>
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
>Sure...Mr.
>
Foster...Third red light and turn
>left.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========
>
>
-List" rel="noreferrer"
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>
==========
>
>
FORUMS -
>
>
eferrer"
>target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
==========
>
>
WIKI -
>
>
errer"
>target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
==========
>
>
b Site -
>
>
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
rel="noreferrer"
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Blessed are
>
the cracked, for they
shall let in the
>light.Groucho
>
Marx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
>red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
> --
>Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
>red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 24
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|
Subject: | How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
The part where the earth was spinning under a wing tip. Wingover I guess.
Too close to inverted for my taste. One little bump in the air and you are upside
down!
Used to do that kind of thing in heavier aircraft, but not in my 2-stroke powered
leaf.
The accelerated stall got my attention too. Of course I have never liked them in
any aircraft. Always scared me, never got used to doing that.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 2:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
"Scared the crap out of me just
watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the air. If I wanted to fly like
that I would have a Citabria, not a Firefly."
Are we all talking about the traditional "wingover" maneuver that the guy did in
the video at the 3:04 mark and 3:58 mark? Or is there some sort of inverted
flat spin and Lomcevak he did that I didn't see when watching the video?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 11:43 AM
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#yiv4032260202 Scared the crap out of me just watching it. Of course I am a known
chicken in the air. If I wanted to fly like that I would have a Citabria,
not a Firefly. Stuart From:
owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03,
2016 11:05 AM
To:
kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re:
Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link below!!!
I am sick!!! Herb On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:After my
experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional project should
be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real morons out there when
it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling.
You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built
it probably won't fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little
skill can find himself in real trouble.
Rick
Girard On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04
AM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:--> Kolb-List
message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
When I sold the Firefly last
month...I was naturally worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems
to indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed
a
BRS...:-) I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted
the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened
to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016
12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
Great idea on the piloting
tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or
blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new
Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong
need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction
manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned
this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the
assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision,
and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com
- safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
wrote:
Subject:
Kolb-List: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
Kolbers,
Ever year
we have several members finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group.
I think it
would be a good thing if those
of you with Kolb flying
experience could
create a Kolb Flying Tips document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
get more time in a
Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
dos and dont of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
be differences in every
Kolb built and each model, but what
are
the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed some of the
information, but if they have
I have never heard a reference
to it.
What do you think?
Thanks as always, I
would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST
WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
--
Signature
text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
==========
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
==========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
==========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Blessed are the cracked, for
they shall let in the light. Groucho Marx
-- Signature text; Fort
Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Message 25
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|
You are missing somethings.
All Kolb models are very maneuverable aircraft. They are a lot of fun to fly.
They are not rated for aerobatics, but will do most aerobatic maneuvers with
ease.
The two most agile models of Kolbs are the Slingshot and the Firefly, because of
their short wing span, primarily. The long wing models are slower to role,
but, as Homer Kolb explained to me many years ago when I was complaining about
how slow they rolled, "Be gentle and the aircraft will do what you want it to
do."
Many Kolb pilots never experience any maneuver more than straight and level and
slow turns. By pushing the limits of the Kolb I learned how to better fly it,
especially when I got myself into serious wind and weather problems. One will
never know what his Kolb will do unless he pushes out of his comfort zone a
little.
I find it very disappointing and sad that many Kolb owners think they can fly without
instruction and/or indoctrination. We have lost a lot of Kolb people because
of ego and stupidity. It is not necessary. I guess it is very similar
to jumping in the water over your head and not knowing how to swim, but have
heard how, read the manual, jump in and drown.
Not recommending anyone do as I do. Simply expressing how I have experienced my
Kolbs over the years.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
Can someone explain to me what is being discussed here, I'm afraid that I'm not
getting something that's important. What I am reading on this discussion forum
sounds like it is different than what people are upset or irritated about. I
must be missing a big piece of this story.
Here is what I am "hearing" on the discussion forum :
1) Herb sold his beautiful Firefly to someone, and
2) that someone (the buyer) allowed someone else (with 20+ years in Kolbs) to fly
it for that video, and
3) that highly experienced Kolb pilot did two traditional wingover maneuvers on
camera, and
4) the buyer of Herb's Firefly (who was not shown in the video) now needs to be
saved before something awful happens to his family.
I am NOT being a smart-ass (my usual self), I'm just missing part of the story
and I do not understand what specific thing happened that has ruined Herb's day,
made him so upset, who crashed the airplane and when, and why he would rather
have seen the airplane destroyed.
Another thing I think I noticed is that the farm where this video was taken APPEARS
to be the same farm where a previous youtube video was done showing the Kolb
doing numerous slow takeoffs and landings by a pretty good quality pilot.
Like I said, I am probably missing something significant... can someone clue me
in?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 11:44 AM
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
I noticed that and have just chatted with the guy who flew the plane...he said
it flew perfectly...no problems at all...and he has 20+ plus years in Kolbs...
owns a Fly... Several Kolbs at the field...
I then assumed camera angle...but did not think to ask...after his "perfectly"
statement...
Up shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did considerable damage
which the club members (a lot of expertise in that
club!!) have
repaired..to the extent that the repair is hardly noticeable...
To be honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been great if it
was not fixable!!! :-(
We have developed a plan to help save this guy.... lets hope....
(wife and kids are last resort!!) Herb
On 05/03/2016 12:56 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Experienced Kolb pilots - is this correct? Is this just camera parallax? Is
this particular airplane not rigged right?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: snow what???
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 9:17 AM > > > > > > > Guys ...after
learning that the new owner was not the > one flying the > Firefly..and
seeing the latest post on the youtube > site...
>
>
>
> this is my email
to the owner....can I do more??
> Herb
>
>
>
>
>
> I understand that you
were not the one flying the
> Firefly in that
> video?
>
>
>
> I cannot emphasize
enough...this plane will kill you
> dead....Kolbs
> have a very sharp
stall!! Typically getting too slow on
> landing and
> dropping a wing and
hitting the ground Very Bad!!!
> If you are
> lucky , it will mush in
and bend the landing gear and
> bend the
> frame...but you will
still get something broken....
>
>
>
> You must
get some dual instruction in another
> plane of similar
>
characteristics..!! Mark III or
Firestar II...
>
>
>
> Please do not
orphan those kids!!! I will buy it
> back and come
> and get it...Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016
> 11:04 AM, Herb wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> My day is
ruined....check the latest comment on You > tube at the > link below!!!
I am sick!!! Herb > > > > On > 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard
> Girard
wrote:
>
>
>
> After my
experience with the
> "Plane from Hell", I
>
think a additional project should be a "how > to inspect a Kolb >
(model). There are some real morons out there when > it comes to >
building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes > to selling.
> You
can have all the flying manuals you want but > if the plane >
is poorly built it probably won't fly within > the manual >
parameters and a pilot with little skill can find > himself in >
real trouble.
>
>
>
>
Rick Girard
>
>
>
> On
Tue, May
> 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb
>
<Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
wrote:
>
>
-->
>
Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> > >
>
>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was > naturally >
worried about a low time pilot....but this > video seems to >
indicate that he is doing very
well...guide or
> no...I
>
notice he installed a BRS...:-) I
mentioned
> on the
>
comments that it was a Herbup to not have > painted the >
instrument panel...must have been dozing that > day?? Not >
sure what happened to the foam joy stick > grip?? Herb > >
>
>
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
>
>
>
>
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle
wrote:
>
>
>
--> Kolb-List message
posted by: Bill
> Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>
>
Great idea on the
piloting tips, so
> long as you can
>
protect the authors of those
tips from
> liability or
>
blame when the s**t hits the
fan.
>
>
>
>
On a similar note, as a new
Kolb builder
> but an
>
experienced "airplane guy",
I
> believe there is also
>
a strong need for an
improved assembly
> manual. I
>
have written assembly and
construction
> manuals
>
professionally, and I have
sent the
> factory an
>
e-mail that mentioned this
and offered
> my services.
>
I would be very glad to
participate in
> the assembly
>
manual rewrite if the
factory is
> interested. But it
>
is their decision, and they
may not
> agree that there
>
is a need for a better
manual..
>
>
>
>
Bill Berle
>
>
www.ezflaphandle.com
>
- safety & performance
upgrade for
> light
>
aircraft
>
>
www.grantstar.net
> -
>
winning proposals for
non-profit and
> for-profit
>
entities
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara
<nickc@mtaonline.net>
>
>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
Subject: Kolb-List:
How about a new
> Pilot Guide to
>
Kolb flying?
>
>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
>
Date: Monday, May 2,
2016, 9:26 PM
>
>
-->
Kolb-List message posted
> by:
>
>
Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net> > >
Kolbers,
>
>
Ever year we
have several
> members finish their
>
>
projects, or buy a
Kolb and joint our
> group. I
>
think it
>
>
would be a good thing
if those of you
> with Kolb
>
flying
>
>
experience could
create a Kolb
> Flying Tips
>
document
>
>
of some sort. I hope
to joint the
> group of
>
completed
>
>
projects this summer,
and I know the
> best think to
>
do is to
>
>
get more time in a
Champ, but I know,
> that flying
>
my Kolb
>
>
will be different
than flying the
> Champ. So how
>
about a
>
>
dos and dont of
fly the Kolb. I
> know that there
>
will
>
>
be differences in
every Kolb built
> and each model,
>
but what
>
>
are the average V
speeds for each
> model? I would
>
think that
>
>
one of the company
owner would have
> printed some
>
of the
>
>
information, but if
they have I have
> never heard a
>
reference
>
>
to it. What do you
think?
>
>
Thanks as
always, I would have
> never gotten this
>
far without
>
>
the support and
knowledge of this
> group!
>
>
Nick Cassara
>
>
Palmer, Alaska
>
>
PAAQ
>
>
Kolbra Kit #1
>
>
Forum -
>
>
- MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS -
>
>
MATRONICS LIST WIKI
-
>
>
List Contribution Web
Site -
>
>
-Matt
>
>
Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
>
>
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
> Sure...Mr.
>
Foster...Third red light and turn
> left.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========
>
>
-List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>
==========
>
>
FORUMS -
>
>
eferrer"
> target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
==========
>
>
WIKI -
>
>
errer"
> target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
==========
>
>
b Site -
>
>
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Blessed are
>
the cracked, for they
shall let in the
> light. Groucho
>
Marx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
> red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
> red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 26
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
>
> Up shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did considerable damage
> which the club members (a lot of expertise in that club!!) have
> repaired..to the extent that the repair is hardly noticeable...
> To be honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been great if
> it was not fixable!!! :-(
>
> We have developed a plan to help save this guy.... lets hope.... (wife
> and kids are last resort!!) Herb
>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
I'm not sure what you are so worried about. If the guy had it on its back
already, he should be getting the message, don't you think? Nothing like a
little personal up close experience to tell a guy what he does and does not
know. Sounds like a great bunch of guy's that would help him put it back
together. I am sure that he will now be open to suggestions.
Larry
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 27
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|
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
>
> Up shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did considerable damage
> which the club members (a lot of expertise in that club!!) have
> repaired..to the extent that the repair is hardly noticeable...
> To be honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been great if
> it was not fixable!!! :-(
>
> We have developed a plan to help save this guy.... lets hope.... (wife
> and kids are last resort!!) Herb
>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
I'm not sure what you are so worried about. If the guy had it on its back
already, he should be getting the message, don't you think? Nothing like a
little personal up close experience to tell a guy what he does and does not
know. Sounds like a great bunch of guy's that would help him put it back
together. I am sure that he will now be open to suggestions.
Larry
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 28
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|
Good advice of course, thank you. When my Firestar is completed I will seek out
someone in this area with a two place Kolb and see if I can get some familiarization
and indoctrination.
I had one brief flight in a Twinstar or Mark 3 many years ago, but it was just
a ride with no actual stick time. The speeds, takeoff and landing distances, and
general "buoyancy" of that airplane (with two heavy people aboard) seemed about
like the Taylorcraft I had at the time. But we did not do any sudden power
reductions, and he did not demonstrate anything having to do with the high thrust
line, so I do not have any useful experience to compare.
As far as the video referenced earlier in this thread.... so it appears that it
was indeed the "wingover" maneuver that has caused the discomfort and concern
Herb and others are feeling? Was there any other instance of the "overconfidence"
or recklessness that I have missed?
Once again, what I am hearing is that the guy in the video has 20+ years in Kolbs
(almost as much as John and other highly experienced Kolbers), and his wingover
maneuver was seen by some as being very reckless. What ELSE happened (besides
that wingover) that has people so upset? A comment was made about the over-confidence
of the buyer (not the guy flying in the video). What did the buyer
do that has people thinking he is being reckless or irresponsible?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: snow what???
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 1:17 PM
"John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
You are missing somethings.
All Kolb models are very maneuverable aircraft. They
are a lot of fun to fly. They are not rated for
aerobatics, but will do most aerobatic maneuvers with ease.
The two most agile models of Kolbs are the Slingshot and the
Firefly, because of their short wing span, primarily.
The long wing models are slower to role, but, as Homer Kolb
explained to me many years ago when I was complaining about
how slow they rolled, "Be gentle and the aircraft will do
what you want it to do."
Many Kolb pilots never experience any maneuver more than
straight and level and slow turns. By pushing the
limits of the Kolb I learned how to better fly it,
especially when I got myself into serious wind and weather
problems. One will never know what his Kolb will do
unless he pushes out of his comfort zone a little.
I find it very disappointing and sad that many Kolb owners
think they can fly without instruction and/or
indoctrination. We have lost a lot of Kolb people
because of ego and stupidity. It is not
necessary. I guess it is very similar to jumping in
the water over your head and not knowing how to swim, but
have heard how, read the manual, jump in and drown.
Not recommending anyone do as I do. Simply expressing
how I have experienced my Kolbs over the years.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 2:13 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
Can someone explain to me what is being discussed here, I'm
afraid that I'm not getting something that's important. What
I am reading on this discussion forum sounds like it is
different than what people are upset or irritated about. I
must be missing a big piece of this story.
Here is what I am "hearing" on the discussion forum :
1) Herb sold his beautiful Firefly to someone, and
2) that someone (the buyer) allowed someone else (with 20+
years in Kolbs) to fly it for that video, and
3) that highly experienced Kolb pilot did two traditional
wingover maneuvers on camera, and
4) the buyer of Herb's Firefly (who was not shown in the
video) now needs to be saved before something awful happens
to his family.
I am NOT being a smart-ass (my usual self), I'm just
missing part of the story and I do not understand what
specific thing happened that has ruined Herb's day, made him
so upset, who crashed the airplane and when, and why he
would rather have seen the airplane destroyed.
Another thing I think I noticed is that the farm where this
video was taken APPEARS to be the same farm where a previous
youtube video was done showing the Kolb doing numerous slow
takeoffs and landings by a pretty good quality pilot.
Like I said, I am probably missing something significant...
can someone clue me in?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 11:44 AM
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
I noticed that and have just chatted with the guy who
flew the plane...he said it flew perfectly...no
problems at all...and he has 20+ plus years in
Kolbs... owns a Fly... Several Kolbs at the field...
I then assumed camera angle...but did
not think to ask...after his "perfectly"
statement...
Up shot...the new owner put it on
its back..and did considerable damage which the
club members (a lot of expertise in that
club!!) have
repaired..to the extent that the repair is hardly
noticeable...
To be honest, after all that I have
heard,, it would have been great if it was not
fixable!!! :-(
We have developed a plan to help
save this guy.... lets hope....
(wife and kids are last resort!!)Herb
On 05/03/2016 12:56 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
> > Looking at the youtube video, it appears as
though the pilot is having to hold the stick 10
degrees to the right for "normal" level flight.
>
> Experienced Kolb pilots - is this correct? Is this
just camera parallax? Is this particular airplane not
rigged right?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety &
performance upgrade for light aircraft >
www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities > >
--------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:
>
>Subject: Kolb-List: snow what???
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 9:17
AM > > > >
> > >
Guys ...after learning that the new
owner was not the >one flying
the > Firefly..and
seeing the latest post on the youtube
>site...
>
>
>
> this is my
email
to the owner....can I do more??
>Herb
>
>
>
>
>
> I understand that you
were not the one flying the
>Firefly in that
> video?
>
>
>
> I cannot emphasize
enough...this plane will kill you
>dead....Kolbs
> have a very sharp
stall!! Typically getting too slow on
>landing and
> dropping a wing and
hitting the ground Very Bad!!!
>If you are
> lucky , it will mush
in
and bend the landing gear and
>bend the
> frame...but you will
still get something broken....
>
>
>
> You must
get some dual instruction in another
>plane of similar
>
characteristics..!! Mark III or
Firestar II...
>
>
>
> Please do not
orphan those kids!!! I will buy it
>back and come
> and get it...Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016
>11:04 AM, Herb wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> My day
is
ruined....check the latest comment on You
>tube at the >
link below!!! I am
sick!!!Herb > >
> >
On >05/03/2016
10:31 AM, Richard >
Girard
wrote:
>
>
>
> After my
experience with the
>"Plane from Hell", I
>
think a additional project should be a
"how >to inspect a Kolb
>
(model). There are some real morons out
there when >it comes to
>
building and absolutely unscrupulous
when it comes >to selling.
>
You
can have all the flying manuals you want but
>if the plane >
is poorly built
it probably won't fly within >the
manual >
parameters and a pilot with little skill
can find >himself in >
real trouble.
>
>
>
>
Rick Girard
>
>
>
>
On
Tue, May
>3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb
>
<Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
wrote:
>
>
-->
>
Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> >
>
>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I
was >naturally >
worried about a low time pilot....but
this >video seems to >
indicate that he is doing very
well...guide or
>no...I
>
notice he installed a BRS...:-) I
mentioned
>on the
>
comments that it was a Herbup to not
have >painted the >
instrument panel...must have been dozing
that >day?? Not >
sure what happened to the foam joy stick
>grip?? Herb >
>
>
>
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
>
>
>
>
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle
wrote:
>
>
>
--> Kolb-List message
posted by: Bill
>Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>
>
Great idea on the
piloting tips, so
>long as you can
>
protect the authors of those
tips from
>liability or
>
blame when the s**t hits the
fan.
>
>
>
>
On a similar note, as a new
Kolb builder
>but an
>
experienced "airplane guy",
I
>believe there is also
>
a strong need for an
improved assembly
>manual. I
>
have written assembly and
construction
>manuals
>
professionally, and I have
sent the
>factory an
>
e-mail that mentioned this
and offered
>my services.
>
I would be very glad to
participate in
>the assembly
>
manual rewrite if the
factory is
>interested. But it
>
is their decision, and they
may not
>agree that there
>
is a need for a better
manual..
>
>
>
>
Bill Berle
>
>
www.ezflaphandle.com
>
- safety & performance
upgrade for
>light
>
aircraft
>
>
www.grantstar.net
> -
>
winning proposals for
non-profit and
>for-profit
>
entities
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------
>
>
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara
<nickc@mtaonline.net>
>
>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
Subject: Kolb-List:
How about a new
>Pilot Guide to
>
Kolb flying?
>
>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
>
Date: Monday, May 2,
2016, 9:26 PM
>
>
-->
Kolb-List message posted
>by:
>
>
Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
> >
Kolbers,
>
>
Ever year we
have several
>members finish their
>
>
projects, or buy a
Kolb and joint our
>group. I
>
think it
>
>
would be a good thing
if those of you
>with Kolb
>
flying
>
>
experience could
create a Kolb
>Flying Tips
>
document
>
>
of some sort. I hope
to joint the
>group of
>
completed
>
>
projects this summer,
and I know the
>best think to
>
do is to
>
>
get more time in a
Champ, but I know,
>that flying
>
my Kolb
>
>
will be different
than flying the
>Champ. So how
>
about a
>
>
dos and dont of
fly the Kolb. I
>know that there
>
will
>
>
be differences in
every Kolb built
>and each model,
>
but what
>
>
are the average V
speeds for each
>model? I would
>
think that
>
>
one of the company
owner would have
>printed some
>
of the
>
>
information, but if
they have I have
>never heard a
>
reference
>
>
to it. What do you
think?
>
>
Thanks as
always, I would have
>never gotten this
>
far without
>
>
the support and
knowledge of this
>group!
>
>
Nick Cassara
>
>
Palmer, Alaska
>
>
PAAQ
>
>
Kolbra Kit #1
>
>
Forum -
>
>
-
MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS -
>
>
MATRONICS LIST WIKI
-
>
>
List Contribution Web
Site -
>
>
-Matt
>
>
Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
>
>
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
>Sure...Mr.
>
Foster...Third red light and turn
>left.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========
>
>
-List" rel="noreferrer"
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>
==========
>
>
FORUMS -
>
>
eferrer"
>target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
==========
>
>
WIKI -
>
>
errer"
>target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
==========
>
>
b Site -
>
>
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
rel="noreferrer"
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Blessed are
>
the cracked, for they
shall let in the
>light.Groucho
>
Marx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
>red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
> --
>Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
>red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 29
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
I am in contact with another guy on the field who witnessed the accident
and who did the test flight,sent me the video, (do not ask for it is
restricted.) ...and he is not hopeful...!! And I am looking at
emails that have been exchanged by several others who saw it...most are
discouraged... absolutely no instincts that are necessary for take off ,
let alone landing!
I sent the wife and kids ...widow/orphan message...to him... as thick
as I could , no holds barred!!
I feel as if I am witnessing someone's death in slow motion... :-(
Herb
On 05/03/2016 03:25 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>>
>
>
> Up shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did
> considerable damage which the club members (a lot of expertise in
> that club!!) have repaired..to the extent that the repair is
> hardly noticeable...
> To be honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been
> great if it was not fixable!!! :-(
>
> We have developed a plan to help save this guy.... lets
> hope.... (wife and kids are last resort!!) Herb
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I'm not sure what you are so worried about. If the guy had it on its
> back already, he should be getting the message, don't you think?
> Nothing like a little personal up close experience to tell a guy what
> he does and does not know. Sounds like a great bunch of guy's that
> would help him put it back together. I am sure that he will now be
> open to suggestions.
> Larry
>
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant
> of others./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 30
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PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
Bill
His experience was in flying powered parachutes!! and he put it over
on its back.....If he had gotten in the air...witnesses said that he
would be dead or severely injured..
Lucky as it was...
Looking at the flying video again... I think the pilot was just fine
with his flying...more hot doggy than me...but lots more experience
too...also...a ballistic chute has been installed.. :-) Might have added
some confidence flying a newly built firefly... :-) Normally, test
flying a new plane,,,I hold my breath for the few minutes I am in the
air....close my eyes and land...something on that order! :-)
Our planes are strong...and this guy walked away...so did the warp
drive prop....:-) Herb
On 05/03/2016 03:59 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Good advice of course, thank you. When my Firestar is completed I will seek out
someone in this area with a two place Kolb and see if I can get some familiarization
and indoctrination.
>
> I had one brief flight in a Twinstar or Mark 3 many years ago, but it was just
a ride with no actual stick time. The speeds, takeoff and landing distances,
and general "buoyancy" of that airplane (with two heavy people aboard) seemed
about like the Taylorcraft I had at the time. But we did not do any sudden power
reductions, and he did not demonstrate anything having to do with the high
thrust line, so I do not have any useful experience to compare.
>
> As far as the video referenced earlier in this thread.... so it appears that
it was indeed the "wingover" maneuver that has caused the discomfort and concern
Herb and others are feeling? Was there any other instance of the "overconfidence"
or recklessness that I have missed?
>
> Once again, what I am hearing is that the guy in the video has 20+ years in Kolbs
(almost as much as John and other highly experienced Kolbers), and his wingover
maneuver was seen by some as being very reckless. What ELSE happened (besides
that wingover) that has people so upset? A comment was made about the over-confidence
of the buyer (not the guy flying in the video). What did the buyer
do that has people thinking he is being reckless or irresponsible?
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: snow what???
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 1:17 PM
>
> "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> You are missing somethings.
>
> All Kolb models are very maneuverable aircraft. They
> are a lot of fun to fly. They are not rated for
> aerobatics, but will do most aerobatic maneuvers with ease.
>
> The two most agile models of Kolbs are the Slingshot and the
> Firefly, because of their short wing span, primarily.
> The long wing models are slower to role, but, as Homer Kolb
> explained to me many years ago when I was complaining about
> how slow they rolled, "Be gentle and the aircraft will do
> what you want it to do."
>
> Many Kolb pilots never experience any maneuver more than
> straight and level and slow turns. By pushing the
> limits of the Kolb I learned how to better fly it,
> especially when I got myself into serious wind and weather
> problems. One will never know what his Kolb will do
> unless he pushes out of his comfort zone a little.
>
> I find it very disappointing and sad that many Kolb owners
> think they can fly without instruction and/or
> indoctrination. We have lost a lot of Kolb people
> because of ego and stupidity. It is not
> necessary. I guess it is very similar to jumping in
> the water over your head and not knowing how to swim, but
> have heard how, read the manual, jump in and drown.
>
> Not recommending anyone do as I do. Simply expressing
> how I have experienced my Kolbs over the years.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bill Berle
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 2:13 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
>
>
> Can someone explain to me what is being discussed here, I'm
> afraid that I'm not getting something that's important. What
> I am reading on this discussion forum sounds like it is
> different than what people are upset or irritated about. I
> must be missing a big piece of this story.
>
> Here is what I am "hearing" on the discussion forum :
>
> 1) Herb sold his beautiful Firefly to someone, and
> 2) that someone (the buyer) allowed someone else (with 20+
> years in Kolbs) to fly it for that video, and
> 3) that highly experienced Kolb pilot did two traditional
> wingover maneuvers on camera, and
> 4) the buyer of Herb's Firefly (who was not shown in the
> video) now needs to be saved before something awful happens
> to his family.
>
> I am NOT being a smart-ass (my usual self), I'm just
> missing part of the story and I do not understand what
> specific thing happened that has ruined Herb's day, made him
> so upset, who crashed the airplane and when, and why he
> would rather have seen the airplane destroyed.
>
> Another thing I think I noticed is that the farm where this
> video was taken APPEARS to be the same farm where a previous
> youtube video was done showing the Kolb doing numerous slow
> takeoffs and landings by a pretty good quality pilot.
>
> Like I said, I am probably missing something significant...
> can someone clue me in?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
> upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
> - winning proposals for
> non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 11:44 AM
>
> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
> I noticed that and have just chatted with the guy who
> flew the plane...he said it flew perfectly...no
> problems at all...and he has 20+ plus years in
> Kolbs... owns a Fly... Several Kolbs at the field...
>
> I then assumed camera angle...but did
> not think to ask...after his "perfectly"
> statement...
>
> Up shot...the new owner put it on
> its back..and did considerable damage which the
> club members (a lot of expertise in that
> club!!) have
> repaired..to the extent that the repair is hardly
> noticeable...
> To be honest, after all that I have
> heard,, it would have been great if it was not
> fixable!!! :-(
>
> We have developed a plan to help
> save this guy.... lets hope....
> (wife and kids are last resort!!) Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016 12:56 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
> > > Looking at the youtube video, it appears as
> though the pilot is having to hold the stick 10
> degrees to the right for "normal" level flight.
> >
> > Experienced Kolb pilots - is this correct? Is this
> just camera parallax? Is this particular airplane not
> rigged right?
> >
> > Bill Berle
> > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety &
> performance upgrade for light aircraft >
> www.grantstar.net
> - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities > >
> --------------------------------------------
> > On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Kolb-List: snow what???
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 9:17
> AM > > > >
> > > >
> Guys ...after learning that the new
> owner was not the > one flying
> the > Firefly..and
> seeing the latest post on the youtube
> > site...
> >
> >
> >
> > this is my
> email
> to the owner....can I do more??
> > Herb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I understand that you
> were not the one flying the
> > Firefly in that
> > video?
> >
> >
> >
> > I cannot emphasize
> enough...this plane will kill you
> > dead....Kolbs
> > have a very sharp
> stall!! Typically getting too slow on
> > landing and
> > dropping a wing and
> hitting the ground Very Bad!!!
> > If you are
> > lucky , it will mush
> in
> and bend the landing gear and
> > bend the
> > frame...but you will
> still get something broken....
> >
> >
> >
> > You must
> get some dual instruction in another
> > plane of similar
> >
> characteristics..!! Mark III or
> Firestar II...
> >
> >
> >
> > Please do not
> orphan those kids!!! I will buy it
> > back and come
> > and get it...Herb
> >
> > On 05/03/2016
> > 11:04 AM, Herb wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> > My day
> is
> ruined....check the latest comment on You
> > tube at the >
> link below!!! I am
> sick!!! Herb > >
> > >
> On > 05/03/2016
> 10:31 AM, Richard >
> Girard
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > After my
> experience with the
> > "Plane from Hell", I
> >
> think a additional project should be a
> "how > to inspect a Kolb
> >
> (model). There are some real morons out
> there when > it comes to
> >
> building and absolutely unscrupulous
> when it comes > to selling.
> >
> You
> can have all the flying manuals you want but
> > if the plane >
> is poorly built
> it probably won't fly within > the
> manual >
> parameters and a pilot with little skill
> can find > himself in >
> real trouble.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Rick Girard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> On
> Tue, May
> > 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb
> >
> <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> -->
> >
> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> > >
>
>
> >
> >
> When I sold the Firefly last month...I
> was > naturally >
> worried about a low time pilot....but
> this > video seems to >
> indicate that he is doing very
> well...guide or
> > no...I
> >
> notice he installed a BRS...:-) I
> mentioned
> > on the
> >
> comments that it was a Herbup to not
> have > painted the >
> instrument panel...must have been dozing
> that > day?? Not >
> sure what happened to the foam joy stick
> > grip?? Herb >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
> >
>
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle
> wrote:
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> --> Kolb-List message
> posted by: Bill
> > Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> Great idea on the
> piloting tips, so
> > long as you can
> >
> protect the authors of those
> tips from
> > liability or
> >
> blame when the s**t hits the
> fan.
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> On a similar note, as a new
> Kolb builder
> > but an
> >
> experienced "airplane guy",
> I
> > believe there is also
> >
> a strong need for an
> improved assembly
> > manual. I
> >
> have written assembly and
> construction
> > manuals
> >
> professionally, and I have
> sent the
> > factory an
> >
> e-mail that mentioned this
> and offered
> > my services.
> >
> I would be very glad to
> participate in
> > the assembly
> >
> manual rewrite if the
> factory is
> > interested. But it
> >
> is their decision, and they
> may not
> > agree that there
> >
> is a need for a better
> manual..
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> Bill Berle
> >
> >
> www.ezflaphandle.com
> >
> - safety & performance
> upgrade for
> > light
> >
> aircraft
> >
> >
> www.grantstar.net
> > -
> >
> winning proposals for
> non-profit and
> > for-profit
> >
> entities
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> > --------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara
> <nickc@mtaonline.net>
> >
> >
> wrote:
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> Subject: Kolb-List:
> How about a new
> > Pilot Guide to
> >
> Kolb flying?
> >
> >
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> Date: Monday, May 2,
> 2016, 9:26 PM
> >
> >
> -->
> Kolb-List message posted
> > by:
> >
> >
> Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net>
> > >
> Kolbers,
> >
> >
> Ever year we
> have several
> > members finish their
> >
> >
> projects, or buy a
> Kolb and joint our
> > group. I
> >
> think it
> >
> >
> would be a good thing
> if those of you
> > with Kolb
> >
> flying
> >
> >
> experience could
> create a Kolb
> > Flying Tips
> >
> document
> >
> >
> of some sort. I hope
> to joint the
> > group of
> >
> completed
> >
> >
> projects this summer,
> and I know the
> > best think to
> >
> do is to
> >
> >
> get more time in a
> Champ, but I know,
> > that flying
> >
> my Kolb
> >
> >
> will be different
> than flying the
> > Champ. So how
> >
> about a
> >
> >
> dos and dont of
> fly the Kolb. I
> > know that there
> >
> will
> >
> >
> be differences in
> every Kolb built
> > and each model,
> >
> but what
> >
> >
> are the average V
> speeds for each
> > model? I would
> >
> think that
> >
> >
> one of the company
> owner would have
> > printed some
> >
> of the
> >
> >
> information, but if
> they have I have
> > never heard a
> >
> reference
> >
> >
> to it. What do you
> think?
> >
> >
> Thanks as
> always, I would have
> > never gotten this
> >
> far without
> >
> >
> the support and
> knowledge of this
> > group!
> >
> >
> Nick Cassara
> >
> >
> Palmer, Alaska
> >
> >
> PAAQ
> >
> >
> Kolbra Kit #1
> >
> >
>
>
> Forum -
> >
> >
> -
> MATRONICS WEB
> FORUMS -
> >
> >
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI
> -
> >
> >
> List Contribution Web
> Site -
> >
> >
>
>
> -Matt
> >
> >
> Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
>
> >
> --
> >
> >
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
> > Sure...Mr.
> >
> Foster...Third red light and turn
> > left.
> >
>
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> ==========
> >
> >
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> >
> >
> ==========
> >
> >
> FORUMS -
> >
> >
> eferrer"
> > target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
> ==========
> >
> >
> WIKI -
> >
> >
> errer"
> > target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> >
> >
> ==========
> >
> >
> b Site -
> >
> >
>
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> rel="noreferrer"
> > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
> ==========
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
> Blessed are
> >
> the cracked, for they
> shall let in the
> > light. Groucho
> >
> Marx
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
> Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
> > red light and turn left.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?
> Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
> > red light and turn left.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
> Foster...Third red light and turn left.
>
>
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> List Contribution Web Site -
>
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 31
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I only have control over one person, me, and not all the time.
Certainly do not have control over anyone else.
If I sell an airplane to an individual, I have no responsibility or
control of what he or she may do with it. Hope your customer does not
harm or kill himself. However, if he does, you have no control over
that. He will not be the first, nor will he be the last. Some folks
are built that way.
The man has been warned. What else can you do? I don't know.
One thing for sure, the airplane seems to fly well and did not fall out
of the sky, nor did the engine quit.
BTW: I like the subject line. ;-)(
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
I am in contact with another guy on the field who witnessed the accident
and who did the test flight,sent me the video, (do not ask for it is
restricted.) ...and he is not hopeful...!! And I am looking at
emails that have been exchanged by several others who saw it...most are
discouraged... absolutely no instincts that are necessary for take off ,
let alone landing!
I sent the wife and kids ...widow/orphan message...to him... as thick
as I could , no holds barred!!
I feel as if I am witnessing someone's death in slow motion... :-(
Herb
On 05/03/2016 03:25 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Up shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did considerable
damage which the club members (a lot of expertise in that club!!) have
repaired..to the extent that the repair is hardly noticeable...
To be honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been great
if it was not fixable!!! :-(
We have developed a plan to help save this guy.... lets hope....
(wife and kids are last resort!!) Herb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
I'm not sure what you are so worried about. If the guy had it on its
back already, he should be getting the message, don't you think? Nothing
like a little personal up close experience to tell a guy what he does
and does not know. Sounds like a great bunch of guy's that would help
him put it back together. I am sure that he will now be open to
suggestions.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light
and turn left.
Message 32
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|
There is no accident or "over on its back" shown in that video... what "accident"
is everyone talking about?
What did the buyer do?
I am seriously missing some big part of this story that nobody is mentioning.
Now I hear that a video of something else is restricted or top secret.... what
happened in this video?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: snow what???
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 2:50 PM
#yiv4496894905
#yiv4496894905 --
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#yiv4496894905 I only have control over one
person, me, and not all the time. Certainly do not have control over
anyone else. If I sell an airplane to an
individual, I have no responsibility or control of what he
or she may do with it. Hope your customer does not harm or
kill himself. However, if he does, you have no control
over that. He will not be the first, nor will he be the
last. Some folks are built that way. The man has been warned. What
else can you do? I don't know. One thing for sure, the airplane
seems to fly well and did not fall out of the sky, nor did
the engine quit. BTW: I like the subject line.
;-)( john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From:
owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03,
2016 4:24 PM
To:
kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re:
Kolb-List: snow what??? I am in contact with another
guy on the field who witnessed the accident and who did the
test flight,sent me the video, (do not ask for it is
restricted.) ...and he is not hopeful...!! And I am
looking at emails that have been exchanged by several others
who saw it...most are discouraged... absolutely no instincts
that are necessary for take off , let alone landing!
I sent the wife and kids
...widow/orphan message...to him... as thick as I could , no
holds barred!!
I feel
as if I am witnessing someone's death in slow motion...
:-( Herb On 05/03/2016 03:25 PM, Larry
Cottrell wrote: On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:44
PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:--> Kolb-List
message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
Up
shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did
considerable damage which the club members (a lot of
expertise in that club!!) have repaired..to the extent that
the repair is hardly noticeable...
To be
honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been
great if it was not fixable!!! :-(
We have developed a plan to help save this
guy.... lets hope.... (wife and kids are last resort!!)
Herb------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you are
so worried about. If the guy had it on its back already, he
should be getting the message, don't you think? Nothing
like a little personal up close experience to tell a guy
what he does and does not know. Sounds like a great bunch of
guy's that would help him put it back together. I am
sure that he will now be open to
suggestions.Larry
--
The older I
get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others. If you forward this email,
or any part of it, please remove my email address before
sending.
-- Signature text; Fort
Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 33
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
I have been so upset that subject line is the last thing on my mind...!
You think like my Southern Baptist Minister...flew 20 years in
Tanzania...supporting the ministry over there...
I called him and he said pretty much the same....
May have missed your calling , John!
did you notice that the Warp prop stopped the engine dead when the
plane went over....with no damage? Father....a miracle?? :-) Herb
On 05/03/2016 04:50 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> I only have control over one person, me, and not all the time.
>
> Certainly do not have control over anyone else.
>
> If I sell an airplane to an individual, I have no responsibility or
> control of what he or she may do with it. Hope your customer does not
> harm or kill himself. However, if he does, you have no control over
> that. He will not be the first, nor will he be the last. Some folks
> are built that way.
>
> The man has been warned. What else can you do? I don't know.
>
> One thing for sure, the airplane seems to fly well and did not fall
> out of the sky, nor did the engine quit.
>
> BTW: I like the subject line. ;-)(
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Herb
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 03, 2016 4:24 PM
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
>
> I am in contact with another guy on the field who witnessed the
> accident and who did the test flight,sent me the video, (do not ask
> for it is restricted.) ...and he is not hopeful...!! And I am
> looking at emails that have been exchanged by several others who saw
> it...most are discouraged... absolutely no instincts that are
> necessary for take off , let alone landing!
>
> I sent the wife and kids ...widow/orphan message...to him... as
> thick as I could , no holds barred!!
>
> I feel as if I am witnessing someone's death in slow motion... :-(
> Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016 03:25 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>>
>
>
> Up shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did
> considerable damage which the club members (a lot of expertise in
> that club!!) have repaired..to the extent that the repair is
> hardly noticeable...
> To be honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been
> great if it was not fixable!!! :-(
>
> We have developed a plan to help save this guy.... lets
> hope.... (wife and kids are last resort!!) Herb
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm not sure what you are so worried about. If the guy had it on
> its back already, he should be getting the message, don't you
> think? Nothing like a little personal up close experience to tell
> a guy what he does and does not know. Sounds like a great bunch of
> guy's that would help him put it back together. I am sure that he
> will now be open to suggestions.
>
> Larry
>
>
> --
>
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are
> intolerant of others./
>
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my
> email address before sending./
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 34
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|
Herb:
I understand Sky King put the FF on its back, but have not seen the
video.
Not necessary to see the video though. I put my brand new FS on its
back when the 447 failed and I landed in a cotton field. I know what it
looks like from the driver's seat.
My Dad was a Baptist preacher. I never wanted to be one.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
I have been so upset that subject line is the last thing on my mind...!
You think like my Southern Baptist Minister...flew 20 years in
Tanzania...supporting the ministry over there...
I called him and he said pretty much the same....
May have missed your calling , John!
did you notice that the Warp prop stopped the engine dead when the
plane went over....with no damage? Father....a miracle?? :-) Herb
k? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Message 35
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|
Subject: | Firefly Accident...too late now...! |
I am a bad communicator...at times.... tend to use verbal short hand...:-)
The you tube video is of the maiden flight of the Firefly I
built(pretty much in the quick build stage actually) ...with a long time
glider /Kolb pilot at the controls ...could be why he liked wind here
up.?..etc..? He belongs to my old Soaring club...St. Louis Soaring
Assn. at Highland Winett airport...just south of I-70 east of St.
Louis..near Highland ,Ill..
the second vid is of the accident and I have no permission to show
it... That is the Buyer accident...
One or Two of the Kolb guys at the field...via email predicted just
what would happen before the flight ...given the fact of no
experience...and others cautioned him about the quirks of Pushers and
Kolbs specifically...no one gave him a chance of a successful
flight...but he would not listen...! The vid showed someone with no
instincts with rudder and aileron trying to fly a Firefly off at half
power....!
If I get permission, I will link to it...Herb
On 05/03/2016 05:20 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> There is no accident or "over on its back" shown in that video... what "accident"
is everyone talking about?
>
> What did the buyer do?
>
> I am seriously missing some big part of this story that nobody is mentioning.
Now I hear that a video of something else is restricted or top secret.... what
happened in this video?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: snow what???
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 2:50 PM
>
> #yiv4496894905
> #yiv4496894905 --
>
> _filtered #yiv4496894905 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
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> #yiv4496894905 I only have control over one
> person, me, and not all the time. Certainly do not have control over
> anyone else. If I sell an airplane to an
> individual, I have no responsibility or control of what he
> or she may do with it. Hope your customer does not harm or
> kill himself. However, if he does, you have no control
> over that. He will not be the first, nor will he be the
> last. Some folks are built that way. The man has been warned. What
> else can you do? I don't know. One thing for sure, the airplane
> seems to fly well and did not fall out of the sky, nor did
> the engine quit. BTW: I like the subject line.
> ;-)( john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From:
> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Herb
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03,
> 2016 4:24 PM
> To:
> kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re:
> Kolb-List: snow what??? I am in contact with another
> guy on the field who witnessed the accident and who did the
> test flight,sent me the video, (do not ask for it is
> restricted.) ...and he is not hopeful...!! And I am
> looking at emails that have been exchanged by several others
> who saw it...most are discouraged... absolutely no instincts
> that are necessary for take off , let alone landing!
>
> I sent the wife and kids
> ...widow/orphan message...to him... as thick as I could , no
> holds barred!!
>
> I feel
> as if I am witnessing someone's death in slow motion...
> :-( Herb On 05/03/2016 03:25 PM, Larry
> Cottrell wrote: On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:44
> PM, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> wrote:--> Kolb-List
> message posted by: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
>
> Up
> shot...the new owner put it on its back..and did
> considerable damage which the club members (a lot of
> expertise in that club!!) have repaired..to the extent that
> the repair is hardly noticeable...
> To be
> honest, after all that I have heard,, it would have been
> great if it was not fixable!!! :-(
>
> We have developed a plan to help save this
> guy.... lets hope.... (wife and kids are last resort!!)
> Herb------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you are
> so worried about. If the guy had it on its back already, he
> should be getting the message, don't you think? Nothing
> like a little personal up close experience to tell a guy
> what he does and does not know. Sounds like a great bunch of
> guy's that would help him put it back together. I am
> sure that he will now be open to
> suggestions.Larry
>
>
> --
> The older I
> get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
> others. If you forward this email,
> or any part of it, please remove my email address before
> sending.
>
> -- Signature text; Fort
> Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
> left.
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 36
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
Any English speaking people here?
This may be the fourth or fifth time I've asked... what exactly happened that got
everyone so !)$(% upset at the new owner of Herb's Firefly?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 3:34 PM
I have been so upset that subject line is the last thing
on my
mind...!
You think like my Southern Baptist Minister...flew 20
years in
Tanzania...supporting the ministry over there...
I called him and he said pretty much the same....
May have missed your calling , John!
did you notice that the Warp prop stopped the engine
dead when the
plane went over....with no damage? Father....a
miracle?? :-) Herb
On 05/03/2016 04:50 PM,
John Hauck
wrote:
#yiv5329024951
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#yiv5329024951
I
only have control over one person, me, and not
all the time.
Certainly
do not have control over anyone else.
If
I sell an airplane to an individual, I have no
responsibility or control of what he or she may
do with it.
Hope your customer does not harm or kill
himself. However,
if he does, you have no control over that. He
will not be
the first, nor will he be the last. Some folks
are built
that way.
The
man has been warned. What else can you do? I
don't know.
One
thing for sure, the airplane seems to fly well
and did not
fall out of the sky, nor did the engine
quit.
BTW:
I like the subject line. ;-)(
john
h
mkIII
Titus,
Alabama
From:
owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On
Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 4:24
PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow
what???
I am in
contact with another guy on the field who
witnessed the
accident and who did the test flight,sent me the
video, (do
not ask for it is restricted.) ...and he is
not
hopeful...!! And I am looking at emails that
have been
exchanged by several others who saw it...most are
discouraged... absolutely no instincts that are
necessary for
take off , let alone landing!
I sent the wife and kids ...widow/orphan
message...to him...
as thick as I could , no holds barred!!
I feel as if I am witnessing someone's
death in slow
motion... :-( Herb
On 05/03/2016
03:25 PM, Larry Cottrell
wrote:
On Tue,
May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM,
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
wrote:
-->
Kolb-List message posted by:
Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
Up shot...the new owner put it on its
back..and did
considerable damage which the club members
(a lot of
expertise in that club!!) have
repaired..to the extent
that the repair is hardly noticeable...
To be honest, after all that I have
heard,, it would
have been great if it was not fixable!!!
:-(
We have developed a plan to help save
this guy....
lets hope.... (wife and kids are last
resort!!) Herb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm
not sure what you are so
worried about. If the guy had it on its
back
already, he should be getting the
message, don't you
think? Nothing like a little personal up
close
experience to tell a guy what he does
and does not
know. Sounds like a great bunch of
guy's that would
help him put it back together. I am sure
that he
will now be open to suggestions.
Larry
--
The older I
get, the less
tolerant I am of those who
are
intolerant of
others.
If you forward this
email, or any part of it,
please remove
my email address before
sending.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
red light and turn left.
Message 37
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
There is no accident or "over on its back" shown in that video... what
"accident" is everyone talking about?
What did the buyer do?
I am seriously missing some big part of this story that nobody is mentioning.
Now I hear that a video of something else is restricted or top secret....
what happened in this video?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
perhaps you are not getting all the messages. Sometimes that happens, no
one has so far explained why. I subscribe to the individual messages and
the Digest as well. That way I can see if I am missing something. It just
sometimes happens.
This is apparently what you are missing-
Subject: Re:
Kolb-List: snow what??? I am in contact with another
guy on the field who witnessed the accident and who did the
test flight,sent me the video, (do not ask for it is
restricted.) ...and he is not hopeful...!! And I am
looking at emails that have been exchanged by several others
who saw it...most are discouraged... absolutely no instincts
that are necessary for take off , let alone landing!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry
Message 38
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|
Subject: | Re:great white hunter... |
I will post if I get approval...Its on you tube also..
Generally wrecking on take off...gets no points...but wrecking upon
landing in an "invented" 40 mile an hour direct cross wind is something
to talk about...:-) the taxi way starts to look good at that point!
20 years flying all kinds of aircraft in Tanzania, getting shot at,
harvesting meat on the plains, speaking Swahili...you may have missed
your calling...!! :-) Herb
On 05/03/2016 05:51 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Herb:
>
> I understand Sky King put the FF on its back, but have not seen the video.
>
> Not necessary to see the video though. I put my brand new FS on its
> back when the 447 failed and I landed in a cotton field. I know what
> it looks like from the driver's seat.
>
> My Dad was a Baptist preacher. I never wanted to be one.
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Herb
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 03, 2016 5:35 PM
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
>
> I have been so upset that subject line is the last thing on my mind...!
>
> You think like my Southern Baptist Minister...flew 20 years in
> Tanzania...supporting the ministry over there...
>
> I called him and he said pretty much the same....
>
> May have missed your calling , John!
>
> did you notice that the Warp prop stopped the engine dead when the
> plane went over....with no damage? Father....a miracle?? :-) Herb
>
> k? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 39
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|
Subject: | firefly accident in Ill.. |
OOPs....in todays climate...asking for English will get one a visit from
the justice dept.... :-)
anyway...tried to explain in further emails and Larry did a good
synopsis...Herb(speak Hillbilly to me)
On 05/03/2016 05:59 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Any English speaking people here?
>
> This may be the fourth or fifth time I've asked... what exactly happened that
got everyone so !)$(% upset at the new owner of Herb's Firefly?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 3:34 PM
>
>
> I have been so upset that subject line is the last thing
> on my
> mind...!
>
>
>
> You think like my Southern Baptist Minister...flew 20
> years in
> Tanzania...supporting the ministry over there...
>
>
>
> I called him and he said pretty much the same....
>
>
>
> May have missed your calling , John!
>
>
>
> did you notice that the Warp prop stopped the engine
> dead when the
> plane went over....with no damage? Father....a
> miracle?? :-) Herb
>
>
>
>
> On 05/03/2016 04:50 PM,
> John Hauck
> wrote:
>
>
>
> #yiv5329024951
> #yiv5329024951 --
>
> _filtered #yiv5329024951 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
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> I
> only have control over one person, me, and not
> all the time.
>
> Certainly
> do not have control over anyone else.
>
>
> If
> I sell an airplane to an individual, I have no
> responsibility or control of what he or she may
> do with it.
> Hope your customer does not harm or kill
> himself. However,
> if he does, you have no control over that. He
> will not be
> the first, nor will he be the last. Some folks
> are built
> that way.
>
> The
> man has been warned. What else can you do? I
> don't know.
>
> One
> thing for sure, the airplane seems to fly well
> and did not
> fall out of the sky, nor did the engine
> quit.
>
> BTW:
> I like the subject line. ;-)(
>
>
>
> john
> h
> mkIII
> Titus,
> Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Herb
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 4:24
> PM
>
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow
> what???
>
>
>
> I am in
> contact with another guy on the field who
> witnessed the
> accident and who did the test flight,sent me the
> video, (do
> not ask for it is restricted.) ...and he is
> not
> hopeful...!! And I am looking at emails that
> have been
> exchanged by several others who saw it...most are
> discouraged... absolutely no instincts that are
> necessary for
> take off , let alone landing!
>
>
>
> I sent the wife and kids ...widow/orphan
> message...to him...
> as thick as I could , no holds barred!!
>
>
>
> I feel as if I am witnessing someone's
> death in slow
> motion... :-( Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016
> 03:25 PM, Larry Cottrell
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue,
> May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM,
> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> wrote:
> -->
> Kolb-List message posted by:
> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
>
>
>
>
> Up shot...the new owner put it on its
> back..and did
> considerable damage which the club members
> (a lot of
> expertise in that club!!) have
> repaired..to the extent
> that the repair is hardly noticeable...
>
> To be honest, after all that I have
> heard,, it would
> have been great if it was not fixable!!!
> :-(
>
>
>
> We have developed a plan to help save
> this guy....
> lets hope.... (wife and kids are last
> resort!!) Herb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm
> not sure what you are so
> worried about. If the guy had it on its
> back
> already, he should be getting the
> message, don't you
> think? Nothing like a little personal up
> close
> experience to tell a guy what he does
> and does not
> know. Sounds like a great bunch of
> guy's that would
> help him put it back together. I am sure
> that he
> will now be open to suggestions.
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The older I
> get, the less
> tolerant I am of those who
> are
> intolerant of
> others.
>
>
>
>
>
> If you forward this
> email, or any part of it,
> please remove
> my email address before
> sending.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
> Foster...Third red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
> red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 40
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PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
Bill
Just in case...this vid shows the maiden flight of the Firefly...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY&feature=youtu.be
and viewing it again...I see nothing in the maneuvers that
alarm....he did a hands off...and I noticed a slight nose down...which
is good...he did some slow flight prior to landing and some hot dogging
of sorts for the audience ...which is not in my repertoire but fine
in our little birds... Makes me want to try them though... :-) Ain't
dead yet!! Herb
On 05/03/2016 05:59 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Any English speaking people here?
>
> This may be the fourth or fifth time I've asked... what exactly happened that
got everyone so !)$(% upset at the new owner of Herb's Firefly?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 3:34 PM
>
>
> I have been so upset that subject line is the last thing
> on my
> mind...!
>
>
>
> You think like my Southern Baptist Minister...flew 20
> years in
> Tanzania...supporting the ministry over there...
>
>
>
> I called him and he said pretty much the same....
>
>
>
> May have missed your calling , John!
>
>
>
> did you notice that the Warp prop stopped the engine
> dead when the
> plane went over....with no damage? Father....a
> miracle?? :-) Herb
>
>
>
>
> On 05/03/2016 04:50 PM,
> John Hauck
> wrote:
>
>
>
> #yiv5329024951
> #yiv5329024951 --
>
> _filtered #yiv5329024951 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> _filtered #yiv5329024951 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
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> #yiv5329024951
> I
> only have control over one person, me, and not
> all the time.
>
> Certainly
> do not have control over anyone else.
>
>
> If
> I sell an airplane to an individual, I have no
> responsibility or control of what he or she may
> do with it.
> Hope your customer does not harm or kill
> himself. However,
> if he does, you have no control over that. He
> will not be
> the first, nor will he be the last. Some folks
> are built
> that way.
>
> The
> man has been warned. What else can you do? I
> don't know.
>
> One
> thing for sure, the airplane seems to fly well
> and did not
> fall out of the sky, nor did the engine
> quit.
>
> BTW:
> I like the subject line. ;-)(
>
>
>
> john
> h
> mkIII
> Titus,
> Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Herb
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 4:24
> PM
>
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow
> what???
>
>
>
> I am in
> contact with another guy on the field who
> witnessed the
> accident and who did the test flight,sent me the
> video, (do
> not ask for it is restricted.) ...and he is
> not
> hopeful...!! And I am looking at emails that
> have been
> exchanged by several others who saw it...most are
> discouraged... absolutely no instincts that are
> necessary for
> take off , let alone landing!
>
>
>
> I sent the wife and kids ...widow/orphan
> message...to him...
> as thick as I could , no holds barred!!
>
>
>
> I feel as if I am witnessing someone's
> death in slow
> motion... :-( Herb
>
> On 05/03/2016
> 03:25 PM, Larry Cottrell
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue,
> May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM,
> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> wrote:
> -->
> Kolb-List message posted by:
> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>
>
>
>
>
> Up shot...the new owner put it on its
> back..and did
> considerable damage which the club members
> (a lot of
> expertise in that club!!) have
> repaired..to the extent
> that the repair is hardly noticeable...
>
> To be honest, after all that I have
> heard,, it would
> have been great if it was not fixable!!!
> :-(
>
>
>
> We have developed a plan to help save
> this guy....
> lets hope.... (wife and kids are last
> resort!!) Herb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm
> not sure what you are so
> worried about. If the guy had it on its
> back
> already, he should be getting the
> message, don't you
> think? Nothing like a little personal up
> close
> experience to tell a guy what he does
> and does not
> know. Sounds like a great bunch of
> guy's that would
> help him put it back together. I am sure
> that he
> will now be open to suggestions.
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The older I
> get, the less
> tolerant I am of those who
> are
> intolerant of
> others.
>
>
>
>
>
> If you forward this
> email, or any part of it,
> please remove
> my email address before
> sending.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
> Foster...Third red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
> red light and turn left.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
Message 41
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PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
Subject: | Re: snow what??? |
That the pilot flies sailplanes could explain what you see as extreme
maneuvers in the video. A 45 degree bank is normal in a sailplane when you
are trying to fly in the core of a thermal. A pullup to wings vertical is a
fast way to reverse direction when you have flown out of the core. This
pilot found himself in a plane with a crisp roll rate and enjoyed it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb" <Herbgh@nctc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
>
> Bill
>
> Just in case...this vid shows the maiden flight of the Firefly...
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY&feature=youtu.be
>
>
> and viewing it again...I see nothing in the maneuvers that alarm....he
> did a hands off...and I noticed a slight nose down...which is good...he
> did some slow flight prior to landing and some hot dogging of sorts for
> the audience ...which is not in my repertoire but fine in our little
> birds... Makes me want to try them though... :-) Ain't dead yet!! Herb
>
>
> On 05/03/2016 05:59 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>>
>> Any English speaking people here?
>>
>> This may be the fourth or fifth time I've asked... what exactly happened
>> that got everyone so !)$(% upset at the new owner of Herb's Firefly?
>>
>> Bill Berle
>> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
>> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
>> for-profit entities
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 3:34 PM
>> I have been so upset that subject line is the last thing
>> on my
>> mind...!
>> You think like my Southern Baptist Minister...flew 20
>> years in
>> Tanzania...supporting the ministry over there...
>> I called him and he said pretty much the same....
>> May have missed your calling , John!
>> did you notice that the Warp prop stopped the engine
>> dead when the
>> plane went over....with no damage? Father....a
>> miracle?? :-) Herb
>> On 05/03/2016 04:50 PM,
>> John Hauck
>> wrote:
>> #yiv5329024951
>> #yiv5329024951 --
>> _filtered #yiv5329024951 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
>> _filtered #yiv5329024951 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
>> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
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>> 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
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>> 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
>> _filtered #yiv5329024951 {panose-1:3 15 7 2 3 3 2 2 2 4;}
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>> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
>> #yiv5329024951 pre
>> {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;color:black;}
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>> {font-family:Consolas;color:black;}
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>> #yiv5329024951
>> I
>> only have control over one person, me, and not
>> all the time.
>> Certainly
>> do not have control over anyone else.
>> If
>> I sell an airplane to an individual, I have no
>> responsibility or control of what he or she may
>> do with it.
>> Hope your customer does not harm or kill
>> himself. However,
>> if he does, you have no control over that. He
>> will not be
>> the first, nor will he be the last. Some folks
>> are built
>> that way.
>> The
>> man has been warned. What else can you do? I
>> don't know.
>> One
>> thing for sure, the airplane seems to fly well
>> and did not
>> fall out of the sky, nor did the engine
>> quit.
>> BTW:
>> I like the subject line. ;-)(
>> john
>> h
>> mkIII
>> Titus,
>> Alabama
>> From:
>> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Herb
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 4:24
>> PM
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow
>> what???
>> I am in
>> contact with another guy on the field who
>> witnessed the
>> accident and who did the test flight,sent me the
>> video, (do
>> not ask for it is restricted.) ...and he is
>> not
>> hopeful...!! And I am looking at emails that
>> have been
>> exchanged by several others who saw it...most are
>> discouraged... absolutely no instincts that are
>> necessary for
>> take off , let alone landing!
>> I sent the wife and kids ...widow/orphan
>> message...to him...
>> as thick as I could , no holds barred!!
>> I feel as if I am witnessing someone's
>> death in slow
>> motion... :-( Herb
>> On 05/03/2016
>> 03:25 PM, Larry Cottrell
>> wrote:
>> On Tue,
>> May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM,
>> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>> wrote:
>> -->
>> Kolb-List message posted by:
>> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>> Up shot...the new owner put it on its
>> back..and did
>> considerable damage which the club members
>> (a lot of
>> expertise in that club!!) have
>> repaired..to the extent
>> that the repair is hardly noticeable...
>> To be honest, after all that I have
>> heard,, it would
>> have been great if it was not fixable!!!
>> :-(
>> We have developed a plan to help save
>> this guy....
>> lets hope.... (wife and kids are last
>> resort!!) Herb
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> I'm
>> not sure what you are so
>> worried about. If the guy had it on its
>> back
>> already, he should be getting the
>> message, don't you
>> think? Nothing like a little personal up
>> close
>> experience to tell a guy what he does
>> and does not
>> know. Sounds like a great bunch of
>> guy's that would
>> help him put it back together. I am sure
>> that he
>> will now be open to suggestions.
>> Larry
>> --
>> The older I
>> get, the less
>> tolerant I am of those who
>> are
>> intolerant of
>> others.
>> If you forward this
>> email, or any part of it,
>> please remove
>> my email address before
>> sending.
>> --
>> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
>> Foster...Third red light and turn left.
>> --
>> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
>> red light and turn left.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and
> turn left.
>
>
>
Message 42
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Subject: | ground aerobatics... |
Seems that Herb cannot get anything right today...been that kind of
day....!! anyhow...the Test flight video of the Firefly(for those of
you who have been following this saga) was the second flight...The same
guy,experienced Kolb owner, flew a no video ,by the book first
flight...testing trim, stall so on...
Satisfied the strapped on the camera and did the you tube
flight....and the third flight was the owner flipping the plane on its
back.. private , non accessible video at this time..
clear as mud? Herb
On 05/03/2016 07:58 PM, pcking wrote:
>
>
> That the pilot flies sailplanes could explain what you see as extreme
> maneuvers in the video. A 45 degree bank is normal in a sailplane when
> you are trying to fly in the core of a thermal. A pullup to wings
> vertical is a fast way to reverse direction when you have flown out of
> the core. This pilot found himself in a plane with a crisp roll rate
> and enjoyed it.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herb" <Herbgh@nctc.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
>
>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Just in case...this vid shows the maiden flight of the Firefly...
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY&feature=youtu.be
>>
>>
>> and viewing it again...I see nothing in the maneuvers that
>> alarm....he did a hands off...and I noticed a slight nose
>> down...which is good...he did some slow flight prior to landing and
>> some hot dogging of sorts for the audience ...which is not in my
>> repertoire but fine in our little birds... Makes me want to try
>> them though... :-) Ain't dead yet!! Herb
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/03/2016 05:59 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>>>
>>> Any English speaking people here?
>>>
>>> This may be the fourth or fifth time I've asked... what exactly
>>> happened that got everyone so !)$(% upset at the new owner of Herb's
>>> Firefly?
>>>
>>> Bill Berle
>>> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
>>> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
>>> for-profit entities
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Tue, 5/3/16, Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow what???
>>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 3:34 PM
>>> I have been so upset that subject line is the last thing
>>> on my
>>> mind...!
>>> You think like my Southern Baptist Minister...flew 20
>>> years in
>>> Tanzania...supporting the ministry over there...
>>> I called him and he said pretty much the same....
>>> May have missed your calling , John!
>>> did you notice that the Warp prop stopped the engine
>>> dead when the
>>> plane went over....with no damage? Father....a
>>> miracle?? :-) Herb
>>> On 05/03/2016 04:50 PM,
>>> John Hauck
>>> wrote:
>>> #yiv5329024951
>>> #yiv5329024951 --
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>>> #yiv5329024951 div.yiv5329024951WordSection1
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>>> #yiv5329024951
>>> I
>>> only have control over one person, me, and not
>>> all the time.
>>> Certainly
>>> do not have control over anyone else.
>>> If
>>> I sell an airplane to an individual, I have no
>>> responsibility or control of what he or she may
>>> do with it.
>>> Hope your customer does not harm or kill
>>> himself. However,
>>> if he does, you have no control over that. He
>>> will not be
>>> the first, nor will he be the last. Some folks
>>> are built
>>> that way.
>>> The
>>> man has been warned. What else can you do? I
>>> don't know.
>>> One
>>> thing for sure, the airplane seems to fly well
>>> and did not
>>> fall out of the sky, nor did the engine
>>> quit.
>>> BTW:
>>> I like the subject line. ;-)(
>>> john
>>> h
>>> mkIII
>>> Titus,
>>> Alabama
>>> From:
>>> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Herb
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 4:24
>>> PM
>>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snow
>>> what???
>>> I am in
>>> contact with another guy on the field who
>>> witnessed the
>>> accident and who did the test flight,sent me the
>>> video, (do
>>> not ask for it is restricted.) ...and he is
>>> not
>>> hopeful...!! And I am looking at emails that
>>> have been
>>> exchanged by several others who saw it...most are
>>> discouraged... absolutely no instincts that are
>>> necessary for
>>> take off , let alone landing!
>>> I sent the wife and kids ...widow/orphan
>>> message...to him...
>>> as thick as I could , no holds barred!!
>>> I feel as if I am witnessing someone's
>>> death in slow
>>> motion... :-( Herb
>>> On 05/03/2016
>>> 03:25 PM, Larry Cottrell
>>> wrote:
>>> On Tue,
>>> May 3, 2016 at 12:44 PM,
>>> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> -->
>>> Kolb-List message posted by:
>>> Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
>>> Up shot...the new owner put it on its
>>> back..and did
>>> considerable damage which the club members
>>> (a lot of
>>> expertise in that club!!) have
>>> repaired..to the extent
>>> that the repair is hardly noticeable...
>>> To be honest, after all that I have
>>> heard,, it would
>>> have been great if it was not fixable!!!
>>> :-(
>>> We have developed a plan to help save
>>> this guy....
>>> lets hope.... (wife and kids are last
>>> resort!!) Herb
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> I'm
>>> not sure what you are so
>>> worried about. If the guy had it on its
>>> back
>>> already, he should be getting the
>>> message, don't you
>>> think? Nothing like a little personal up
>>> close
>>> experience to tell a guy what he does
>>> and does not
>>> know. Sounds like a great bunch of
>>> guy's that would
>>> help him put it back together. I am sure
>>> that he
>>> will now be open to suggestions.
>>> Larry
>>> --
>>> The older I
>>> get, the less
>>> tolerant I am of those who
>>> are
>>> intolerant of
>>> others.
>>> If you forward this
>>> email, or any part of it,
>>> please remove
>>> my email address before
>>> sending.
>>> --
>>> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
>>> Foster...Third red light and turn left.
>>> --
>>> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third
>>> red light and turn left.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light
>> and turn left.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
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