Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:03 PM - Extended wing Firefly (mikemac)
2. 01:28 PM - Re: Extended wing Firefly (Bill Berle)
3. 01:46 PM - Re: Extended wing Firefly (mikemac)
4. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: Extended wing Firefly (Bill Berle)
5. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: Extended wing Firefly (John Hauck)
6. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Extended wing Firefly (John Hauck)
7. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Extended wing Firefly (Bill Berle)
8. 05:53 PM - Re: Extended wing Firefly (pcking)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Extended wing Firefly |
I was speaking to Brian Melborne yesterday, and expressed my wishes as to wanting
a Bush Kolb. I told him I want STOL as top priority. Rotax 447 or 503. I told
him top speed is not important, but slow flying Characteristics are. I just
like to boat around, low and slow. Anyhow, he said he has been flying a Firefly
with extended wings, and the wing is now undercambered. He said he weighs about
205 and with him in it, he said, and I quote,
"It stalls in the teens". I told him I am very interested in this and he sent me
a picture of it from when he was at Sun n Fun. It was set up as a tricycle gear
which I would not want, but he said making it a tail dragger is not a problem.
I realize this would not be 103 compliant, but I would then just go sport
pilot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457867#457867
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/untitled_765.png
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Extended wing Firefly |
Wow, that's cool !
Did he say that the "undercamber" is a new undercambered wing rib, or is it just
drooped ailerons on a standard Kolb wing ?
Did they have to enlarge the tail to compensate for the increased nose-down pitching
moment form the new airfoil?
Looks really interesting :)
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 7/7/16, mikemac <mmacpherson@homesale.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Extended wing Firefly
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, July 7, 2016, 1:02 PM
"mikemac" <mmacpherson@homesale.com>
I was speaking to Brian Melborne yesterday, and expressed my
wishes as to wanting a Bush Kolb. I told him I want STOL as
top priority. Rotax 447 or 503. I told him top speed is not
important, but slow flying Characteristics are. I just like
to boat around, low and slow. Anyhow, he said he has been
flying a Firefly with extended wings, and the wing is now
undercambered. He said he weighs about 205 and with him in
it, he said, and I quote,
"It stalls in the teens". I told him I am very interested in
this and he sent me a picture of it from when he was at Sun
n Fun. It was set up as a tricycle gear which I would not
want, but he said making it a tail dragger is not a problem.
I realize this would not be 103 compliant, but I would then
just go sport pilot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457867#457867
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/untitled_765.png
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Extended wing Firefly |
I am pretty sure he said undercambered wing. However I would suggest talking with
him, and from your other posts I know you have more design knowledge than me.
So, if you do talk with him, it would be great to post what you found out in
this thread.
I really lit up when Brian said with his weight it would stall in the teens. To
me, that is exactly what I want for slower landing, takeoffs etc. etc. I am not
a showboat pilot, just a pilot who like to boat around. Having the excellent
history of the Kolb, plus STOL, and now a very low stall speed has me jazzed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457874#457874
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Extended wing Firefly |
Remember that when you are doing STOL work, especially really slow STOL, having
full positive control over the airplane at those low speeds is even MORE important
than just the minimum speed. It's like having a hot rod car that goes really
fast but you can't keep it going in a straight line... you won't be able
to enjoy it. When you get down in the 25 MPH and below range, the air is very
soft and you do not have much "Grab" on the air. Your controls can flop around
back and forth but they don't make the airplane do whatever you asked it to do.
But the wind, and the turbulence,and the gusts are still there at full strength.
There are solutions and tricks that you can use to keep control of the plane slower
and slower, spoilers for roll control, VG's on the wings and tail, etc. But
there are many situations where the airplane can go slower than you can control
it, and you're playing with rattlesnakes at that point.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 7/7/16, mikemac <mmacpherson@homesale.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Extended wing Firefly
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, July 7, 2016, 1:45 PM
"mikemac" <mmacpherson@homesale.com>
I am pretty sure he said undercambered wing. However I would
suggest talking with him, and from your other posts I know
you have more design knowledge than me. So, if you do talk
with him, it would be great to post what you found out in
this thread.
I really lit up when Brian said with his weight it would
stall in the teens. To me, that is exactly what I want for
slower landing, takeoffs etc. etc. I am not a showboat
pilot, just a pilot who like to boat around. Having the
excellent history of the Kolb, plus STOL, and now a very low
stall speed has me jazzed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457874#457874
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Extended wing Firefly |
The straight bottom standard Kolb wing has camber as soon as it loaded in
flight because the fabric stretches. How much it stretches has a lot to do
with how much you shrink the fabric.
Bryan Melborn 's new wing rib is cambered.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikemac
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 3:46 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Extended wing Firefly
I am pretty sure he said undercambered wing. However I would suggest talking
with him, and from your other posts I know you have more design knowledge
than me. So, if you do talk with him, it would be great to post what you
found out in this thread.
I really lit up when Brian said with his weight it would stall in the teens.
To me, that is exactly what I want for slower landing, takeoffs etc. etc. I
am not a showboat pilot, just a pilot who like to boat around. Having the
excellent history of the Kolb, plus STOL, and now a very low stall speed has
me jazzed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457874#457874
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Extended wing Firefly |
>From personal experience, the US and original FS are extremely controllable at
speeds down to 25 mph measured with a Winter venturi activated ASI. That is
why Homer Kolb designed oversized barn door full span ailerons and empennage capable
of control at extra slow airspeed.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Extended wing Firefly
Remember that when you are doing STOL work, especially really slow STOL, having
full positive control over the airplane at those low speeds is even MORE important
than just the minimum speed. It's like having a hot rod car that goes really
fast but you can't keep it going in a straight line... you won't be able
to enjoy it. When you get down in the 25 MPH and below range, the air is very
soft and you do not have much "Grab" on the air. Your controls can flop around
back and forth but they don't make the airplane do whatever you asked it to do.
But the wind, and the turbulence,and the gusts are still there at full strength.
There are solutions and tricks that you can use to keep control of the plane slower
and slower, spoilers for roll control, VG's on the wings and tail, etc. But
there are many situations where the airplane can go slower than you can control
it, and you're playing with rattlesnakes at that point.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 7/7/16, mikemac <mmacpherson@homesale.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Extended wing Firefly
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, July 7, 2016, 1:45 PM
"mikemac" <mmacpherson@homesale.com>
I am pretty sure he said undercambered wing. However I would suggest talking
with him, and from your other posts I know you have more design knowledge than
me. So, if you do talk with him, it would be great to post what you found out
in this thread.
I really lit up when Brian said with his weight it would stall in the teens.
To me, that is exactly what I want for slower landing, takeoffs etc. etc. I am
not a showboat pilot, just a pilot who like to boat around. Having the excellent
history of the Kolb, plus STOL, and now a very low stall speed has me
jazzed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457874#457874
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Extended wing Firefly |
Wow, that's interesting, a new wing design. Interested to see if he enlarged the
tail, or whether it was necessary or not.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 7/7/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Extended wing Firefly
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, July 7, 2016, 3:35 PM
"John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
The straight bottom standard Kolb wing has camber as soon as
it loaded in
flight because the fabric stretches. How much it
stretches has a lot to do
with how much you shrink the fabric.
Bryan Melborn 's new wing rib is cambered.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of mikemac
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 3:46 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Extended wing Firefly
I am pretty sure he said undercambered wing. However I would
suggest talking
with him, and from your other posts I know you have more
design knowledge
than me. So, if you do talk with him, it would be great to
post what you
found out in this thread.
I really lit up when Brian said with his weight it would
stall in the teens.
To me, that is exactly what I want for slower landing,
takeoffs etc. etc. I
am not a showboat pilot, just a pilot who like to boat
around. Having the
excellent history of the Kolb, plus STOL, and now a very low
stall speed has
me jazzed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457874#457874
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Extended wing Firefly |
Kolb has a new motorglider.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Berle" <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Extended wing Firefly
>
> Wow, that's cool !
>
> Did he say that the "undercamber" is a new undercambered wing rib, or is
> it just drooped ailerons on a standard Kolb wing ?
>
> Did they have to enlarge the tail to compensate for the increased
> nose-down pitching moment form the new airfoil?
>
> Looks really interesting :)
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit
> entities
>
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