Kolb-List Digest Archive

Tue 08/02/16


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Ultrastar dihedral (Charlie England)
     2. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Ultrastar dihedral (John Hauck)
     3. 10:34 AM - regulator/Rec (Larry Cottrell)
     4. 11:03 AM - Re: regulator/Rec (David Kulp)
     5. 12:33 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Stuart Harner)
     6. 01:11 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Larry Cottrell)
     7. 02:32 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Rex Rodebush)
     8. 04:41 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Herb)
     9. 05:10 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (pcking)
    10. 05:19 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Herb)
    11. 07:26 PM - Re: ground aerobatics... (UltrastarFlyer)
    12. 07:32 PM - Re: ground aerobatics... (UltrastarFlyer)
    13. 08:34 PM - Re: dead battery (Stuart Harner)
    14. 11:44 PM - Re: Ultrastar dihedral (Bill Berle) (George Bearden)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:29:20 AM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Ultrastar dihedral
    Well, Crankpot, while there are numerous insults that beg to be thrown in response to insulting posts, let's stick to technical answers. The primary reason to modify an a/c that doesn't respond to rudder input with roll, is to add at least some chance of survival if there is a failure of roll control. That's why it's included in certification requirements for type certificated a/c (unless they have specific missions that rule it out). Your a/c; your choice, if it's experimental or ultralite. Charlie On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 8:49 PM, UltrastarFlyer <Crankpot@gmail.com> wrote: > > You just repeated everything I said??? Are you a troll or just bored? And > why would I modify a fine flying well proven aircraft so I flies like a toy > radio control airplane? I can recommend some model airplane forums if you > like. > > > victorbravo(at)sbcglobal. wrote: > > By adding a little bit of dihedral you will gain one or two advantages, > at very little cost. Dihedral will make cruising flight a little more > stable and less tiring. If for any reason you have a control system failure > in the stick or yoke assembly, or a failure in the aileron control circuit, > you can safely land the aircraft using yaw-roll coupling if you have a > little bit of dihedral. This can even be used to control pitch attitude > (very very loosely) like we used to do with the old "rudder only" R/C model > airplanes. The old R/C rudder models (with a lot of dihedral) could perform > full aerobatic routines. > > > > You will not have this capability with a flat wing. > > > > Bill Berle > > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and > for-profit entities > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 8/1/16, UltrastarFlyer wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: Ultrastar dihedral > > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > Date: Monday, August 1, 2016, 3:26 PM > > > > > > "UltrastarFlyer" > > > > Hi, > > I own and fly an Ultrastar regularly. These are my > > observations. > > > > The aircraft has neutral roll stability. There is no > > tendency for the aircraft to right itself when displaced > > from level flight. The ailerons are quite effective and the > > aircraft is easy to control. > > > > There is no yaw/roll coupling. Pressing on the rudder > > generates zero roll, even full rudder. Again not a problem > > unless a flight malfunction results in loss if ailerons. In > > this scenario a bailout is necessary as control is lost. > > > > It's not a perfect aircraft but none are. The Ultrastar is > > still a very fine strong reliable aircraft. Enjoy > > > > Bob > > > > -------- > > 1984 Kolb Ultrastar > > Cuyuna ULII-02 > > Ultraprop > > 252 lbs > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459055#459055 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forum - > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > -------- > 1984 Kolb Ultrastar > Cuyuna ULII-02 > Ultraprop > 252 lbs > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459066#459066 > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:10:40 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Ultrastar dihedral
    Kolbers: Thought I had made a comment about Kolb dihedral recently, but undoubtedly I didn't. I can't find it. Another senior moment. Homer Kolb wanted to squeeze every bit of performance out of his aircraft. He initially designed straight wings, no dihedral. His idea of flying was right over the trees as slow as he could go, not as fast as he could go. He wanted to stay in contact with the ground. The Ultrastar had huge barn door ailerons to control roll right through stall. All of Homer's designs have aileron authority below stall. Yep, the ailerons work when the Kolb is mushing and isn't flying anymore. Homer didn't like the way the wings looked drooped when sitting on the ground. He put 1" of dihedral measured at the outboard rib, for aesthetic purposes, for the US and FS. The MKIII got 1.5". Not long before Homer died, he rebuilt the factory Firestar that Dick Rahill crashed at Oshkosh 1989. This was the 1985 Oshkosh Grand Champion Ultralight. In 1985, there weren't any ultralights that performed like the FS. During the rebuild Homer put 3" of dihedral in the wings. I flew the FS after the rebuild, but only around the farm. Didn't even think about the increased dihedral, so can't comment on any improvements. Experience flying a Kolb indicates Homer's designs don't need to be redesigned to fly quite well. Kolbs are not rudder, but aileron aircraft. If you lose ailerons you lose the aircraft. They don't fly long without aileron control. 1985, I experienced total aileron loss on my Ultrastar. One of the aileron bell cranks pulled the weld out of the upper torque tube. Immediately went into aileron flutter (no counter balance weights back then). Luckily, I was flying 75 MPH straight and level, but at 250 feet AGL. Without hesitation, I deployed my Jim Handbury hand deployed parachute. Half an oscillation later, the blink of an eye, and I was on the ground without a scratch. Airspeed was a major contributing factor in getting a full canopy before I hit the ground. Thanks, Jim. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ultrastar dihedral Well, Crankpot, while there are numerous insults that beg to be thrown in response to insulting posts, let's stick to technical answers. The primary reason to modify an a/c that doesn't respond to rudder input with roll, is to add at least some chance of survival if there is a failure of roll control. That's why it's included in certification requirements for type certificated a/c (unless they have specific missions that rule it out). Your a/c; your choice, if it's experimental or ultralite. Charlie


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:34:38 AM PST US
    From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
    Subject: regulator/Rec
    Herb and other interested parties: I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to the engine started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have one good one, probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I have a brand new one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/ Larry -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.*


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:03:39 AM PST US
    From: David Kulp <undoctor@rcn.com>
    Subject: Re: regulator/Rec
    Good to hear, Larry. I hate elusive problems like that!! Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On August 2, 2016 1:40:36 PM Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> wrote: > Herb and other interested parties: > > I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the reg/rec, > re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to the engine > started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found that the rec/reg > that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have one good one, > probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I have a brand new > one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/ > Larry > > -- > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > others.* > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.*


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:33:12 PM PST US
    From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
    Subject: regulator/Rec
    Good deal Larry! Curious, did you find any corrosion or bad connections? I humbly suggest a wee drop of ACF-50 on crimped wire ends and any place there are dissimilar metals such as copper wire terminal and steel bolt. Stuart From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 12:32 PM Subject: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec Herb and other interested parties: I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to the engine started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have one good one, probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I have a brand new one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/ Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:11:20 PM PST US
    From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: regulator/Rec
    The HKS is extremely sensitive to grounding problems. I have always in the past with Rotax engines only grounded to the frame. Not good enough for the HKS. You need to ground to the battery. I believe that was my problem although there was some resistance in some of the connections. Larry On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net> wrote: > Good deal Larry! > > > Curious, did you find any corrosion or bad connections? > > > I humbly suggest a wee drop of ACF-50 on crimped wire ends and any place > there are dissimilar metals such as copper wire terminal and steel bolt. > > > Stuart > > > *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 02, 2016 12:32 PM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Kolb-List: regulator/Rec > > > Herb and other interested parties: > > > I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the reg/rec, > re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to the engine > started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found that the rec/reg > that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have one good one, > probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I have a brand new > one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/ > > Larry > > > -- > > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > others.* > > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.*


    Message 7


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    Time: 02:32:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: regulator/Rec
    From: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush@gmail.com>
    Bad grounding seems to occur all the time. I bought a "grounding block" from B&C. It is a copper block with a large lug for the battery ground and welded on tabs for all the component grounds. Works great. All ground connections in one place. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459127#459127


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:41:26 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: regulator/Rec
    From: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
    Good to hear.... sometimes a broad brush approach is necessary... I spent 22 years in the computer business...early on...a computer fixer for IBM.....Over time I found that a good solution to a tough problem was to go and get a cup of coffee and relax...Seems as though clearing the head allowed a quick fix once back on task... Herb On 08/02/2016 12:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > Herb and other interested parties: > > I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the > reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to > the engine started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found > that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I > have one good one, probably the old one that I took off is good as > well and I have a brand new one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/ > Larry > > -- > /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant > of others./ > / > / > /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending./ -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle


    Message 9


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    Time: 05:10:01 PM PST US
    From: "pcking" <pc.king@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: regulator/Rec
    A cold boot didn't hurt either. ----- Original Message ----- From: Herb To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 7:40 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec Good to hear.... sometimes a broad brush approach is necessary... I spent 22 years in the computer business...early on...a computer fixer for IBM.....Over time I found that a good solution to a tough problem was to go and get a cup of coffee and relax...Seems as though clearing the head allowed a quick fix once back on task... Herb On 08/02/2016 12:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: Herb and other interested parties: I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to the engine started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have one good one, probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I have a brand new one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/ Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:19:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: regulator/Rec
    From: Herb <Herbgh@nctc.com>
    A cold one is always the order of the day...after the durn puter is fixed!! A funny....guy who sold me the airplane(not to be mentioned) forgot and left the master sw on....so I took the tiny little battery out of its holder...noticing how light and puny it looked...never thought...Lithium?? But it was....and I killed it...or maybe it died over the couple of days it sat with the master sw on? 160 bucks ....ouch!! gonna go with a sealed lead acid and a new, larger holder...I am a bit surprised that a standard charging circuit for lead acid batteries could reliably and safely charge a Lithium product...Must have some electronics built into the battery? Herb On 08/02/2016 07:18 PM, pcking wrote: > A cold boot didn't hurt either. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Herb <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com> > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 02, 2016 7:40 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec > > Good to hear.... sometimes a broad brush approach is necessary... > > I spent 22 years in the computer business...early on...a computer > fixer for IBM.....Over time I found that a good solution to a > tough problem was to go and get a cup of coffee and relax...Seems > as though clearing the head allowed a quick fix once back on task... > > Herb > > > On 08/02/2016 12:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: >> Herb and other interested parties: >> >> I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the >> reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the >> battery to the engine started bolt, and all my problems went >> away. I even found that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is >> still good. So now I have one good one, probably the old one that >> I took off is good as well and I have a brand new one on the way. >> I think I am fixed. :-/ >> Larry >> >> -- >> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are >> intolerant of others./ >> / >> / >> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my >> email address before sending./ > > -- > "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." > > Aristotle > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:26:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: ground aerobatics...
    From: "UltrastarFlyer" <Crankpot@gmail.com>
    Boy here you go again... Not even close. FAR 91.303 "...For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight." Maybe you were confused with the FAR that requires parachutes? Just because you have a computer doesn't give you the right to fabricate or worse, misquote regulations. Please consider there are many new pilots here that are impressionable and unfortunately might take your nonsense as fact or law. It's your responsibility to ONLY post fact. If you don't know then use words like " I think" or "I don't know". To continue to do otherwise is disingenuous and irresponsible. Just sayin... victorbravo(at)sbcglobal. wrote: > By normal flight training standards, based on very old memories, a steep turn is one that uses a bank angle 45 degrees or higher. 60 degrees is considered the "steep turn" benchmark when you do FAA private pilot training (at least it was in the 1970's when we had real pilot training). > > > > > The FAA definition of "Aerobatics" is an excursion from level flight of more than 30 degrees of pitch and 60 degrees of bank. But "aerobatic" maneuvers can easily be done that exceed these numbers without putting any abnormal stress or loads on the airplane... and are in reality not "dangerous" in any way. What gets dangerous is when the pilot misjudges or mishandles the recovery from these maneuvers, and can easily accidentally exceed the speed or G load limits that the airframe can handle. THAT is the dangerous part, and THAT is why any pilot with a brain in his head will get aerobatic or "upset recovery" training before playing around with these kinds of maneuvers. > > The Kolb was of course not designed for aerobatics. It does not make any sense to do intentional aerobatics in a Kolb. As mentioned by others, if you are going to go out and do hard aerobatics on purpose then go rent a Citabria. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 5/6/16, flywithme wrote: > > Subject: Re: ground aerobatics... > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, May 6, 2016, 9:48 AM > > > "flywithme" > > i see in some posts reference to the first pilot making a > steep banking turn as being a dangerous maneuver in a kolb. > is this really such a dangerous maneuver > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455928#455928 > > > > > > > > Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. -------- 1984 Kolb Ultrastar Cuyuna ULII-02 Ultraprop 252 lbs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459136#459136


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:32:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: ground aerobatics...
    From: "UltrastarFlyer" <Crankpot@gmail.com>
    Boy here you go again... Not even close. FAR 91.303 "...For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight." Maybe you were confused with the FAR that requires parachutes? Just because you have a computer doesn't give you the right to fabricate or worse, misquote regulations. Please consider there are many new pilots here that are impressionable and unfortunately might take your nonsense as fact or law. It's your responsibility to ONLY post fact. If you don't know then use words like " I think" or "I don't know". To continue to do otherwise is disingenuous and irresponsible. Just sayin... victorbravo(at)sbcglobal. wrote: > By normal flight training standards, based on very old memories, a steep turn is one that uses a bank angle 45 degrees or higher. 60 degrees is considered the "steep turn" benchmark when you do FAA private pilot training (at least it was in the 1970's when we had real pilot training). > > > > > The FAA definition of "Aerobatics" is an excursion from level flight of more than 30 degrees of pitch and 60 degrees of bank. But "aerobatic" maneuvers can easily be done that exceed these numbers without putting any abnormal stress or loads on the airplane... and are in reality not "dangerous" in any way. What gets dangerous is when the pilot misjudges or mishandles the recovery from these maneuvers, and can easily accidentally exceed the speed or G load limits that the airframe can handle. THAT is the dangerous part, and THAT is why any pilot with a brain in his head will get aerobatic or "upset recovery" training before playing around with these kinds of maneuvers. > > The Kolb was of course not designed for aerobatics. It does not make any sense to do intentional aerobatics in a Kolb. As mentioned by others, if you are going to go out and do hard aerobatics on purpose then go rent a Citabria. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 5/6/16, flywithme wrote: > > Subject: Re: ground aerobatics... > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, May 6, 2016, 9:48 AM > > > "flywithme" > > i see in some posts reference to the first pilot making a > steep banking turn as being a dangerous maneuver in a kolb. > is this really such a dangerous maneuver > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455928#455928 > > > > > > > > Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. -------- 1984 Kolb Ultrastar Cuyuna ULII-02 Ultraprop 252 lbs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459137#459137


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:34:34 PM PST US
    From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
    Subject: RE: dead battery
    Herb, If I remember right, a Li battery cannot take being discharged below a certain point. Big warnings on my cordless drill about not using it until it stops but recharge it as soon as it slows down. Partial charging and repeated =9Ctop off=9D charges are fine. Also they don=99t discharge when on the shelf like NiMH and Ni-Cads did. I would suspect the master switch left on is what killed your battery, not your charging of it. On the flip side, I don=99t think it is wise to use a charger designed for a lead-acid battery on an Li battery. Sorry for your loss, Li is nice until you have to replace it. L Stuart From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 7:19 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec A funny....guy who sold me the airplane(not to be mentioned) forgot and left the master sw on....so I took the tiny little battery out of its holder...noticing how light and puny it looked...never thought...Lithium?? But it was....and I killed it...or maybe it died over the couple of days it sat with the master sw on? 160 bucks ....ouch!! gonna go with a sealed lead acid and a new, larger holder...I am a bit surprised that a standard charging circuit for lead acid batteries could reliably and safely charge a Lithium product...Must have some electronics built into the battery? Herb


    Message 14


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    Time: 11:44:38 PM PST US
    From: "George Bearden" <gab16@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Ultrastar dihedral (Bill Berle)
    Thanks Bill Berle for your additional comments, highlighting for this beginning pilot the relationship between dihedral and rudder function.




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