Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Ultrastar dihedral (Charlie England)
2. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Ultrastar dihedral (John Hauck)
3. 10:34 AM - regulator/Rec (Larry Cottrell)
4. 11:03 AM - Re: regulator/Rec (David Kulp)
5. 12:33 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Stuart Harner)
6. 01:11 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Larry Cottrell)
7. 02:32 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Rex Rodebush)
8. 04:41 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Herb)
9. 05:10 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (pcking)
10. 05:19 PM - Re: regulator/Rec (Herb)
11. 07:26 PM - Re: ground aerobatics... (UltrastarFlyer)
12. 07:32 PM - Re: ground aerobatics... (UltrastarFlyer)
13. 08:34 PM - Re: dead battery (Stuart Harner)
14. 11:44 PM - Re: Ultrastar dihedral (Bill Berle) (George Bearden)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Ultrastar dihedral |
Well, Crankpot, while there are numerous insults that beg to be thrown in
response to insulting posts, let's stick to technical answers.
The primary reason to modify an a/c that doesn't respond to rudder input
with roll, is to add at least some chance of survival if there is a failure
of roll control. That's why it's included in certification requirements for
type certificated a/c (unless they have specific missions that rule it
out).
Your a/c; your choice, if it's experimental or ultralite.
Charlie
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 8:49 PM, UltrastarFlyer <Crankpot@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You just repeated everything I said??? Are you a troll or just bored? And
> why would I modify a fine flying well proven aircraft so I flies like a toy
> radio control airplane? I can recommend some model airplane forums if you
> like.
>
>
> victorbravo(at)sbcglobal. wrote:
> > By adding a little bit of dihedral you will gain one or two advantages,
> at very little cost. Dihedral will make cruising flight a little more
> stable and less tiring. If for any reason you have a control system failure
> in the stick or yoke assembly, or a failure in the aileron control circuit,
> you can safely land the aircraft using yaw-roll coupling if you have a
> little bit of dihedral. This can even be used to control pitch attitude
> (very very loosely) like we used to do with the old "rudder only" R/C model
> airplanes. The old R/C rudder models (with a lot of dihedral) could perform
> full aerobatic routines.
> >
> > You will not have this capability with a flat wing.
> >
> > Bill Berle
> > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Mon, 8/1/16, UltrastarFlyer wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: Ultrastar dihedral
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Monday, August 1, 2016, 3:26 PM
> >
> >
> > "UltrastarFlyer"
> >
> > Hi,
> > I own and fly an Ultrastar regularly. These are my
> > observations.
> >
> > The aircraft has neutral roll stability. There is no
> > tendency for the aircraft to right itself when displaced
> > from level flight. The ailerons are quite effective and the
> > aircraft is easy to control.
> >
> > There is no yaw/roll coupling. Pressing on the rudder
> > generates zero roll, even full rudder. Again not a problem
> > unless a flight malfunction results in loss if ailerons. In
> > this scenario a bailout is necessary as control is lost.
> >
> > It's not a perfect aircraft but none are. The Ultrastar is
> > still a very fine strong reliable aircraft. Enjoy
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > --------
> > 1984 Kolb Ultrastar
> > Cuyuna ULII-02
> > Ultraprop
> > 252 lbs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459055#459055
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Forum -
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
> --------
> 1984 Kolb Ultrastar
> Cuyuna ULII-02
> Ultraprop
> 252 lbs
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459066#459066
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Ultrastar dihedral |
Kolbers:
Thought I had made a comment about Kolb dihedral recently, but
undoubtedly I didn't. I can't find it. Another senior moment.
Homer Kolb wanted to squeeze every bit of performance out of his
aircraft. He initially designed straight wings, no dihedral. His idea
of flying was right over the trees as slow as he could go, not as fast
as he could go. He wanted to stay in contact with the ground. The
Ultrastar had huge barn door ailerons to control roll right through
stall. All of Homer's designs have aileron authority below stall. Yep,
the ailerons work when the Kolb is mushing and isn't flying anymore.
Homer didn't like the way the wings looked drooped when sitting on the
ground. He put 1" of dihedral measured at the outboard rib, for
aesthetic purposes, for the US and FS. The MKIII got 1.5". Not long
before Homer died, he rebuilt the factory Firestar that Dick Rahill
crashed at Oshkosh 1989. This was the 1985 Oshkosh Grand Champion
Ultralight. In 1985, there weren't any ultralights that performed like
the FS. During the rebuild Homer put 3" of dihedral in the wings. I
flew the FS after the rebuild, but only around the farm. Didn't even
think about the increased dihedral, so can't comment on any
improvements.
Experience flying a Kolb indicates Homer's designs don't need to be
redesigned to fly quite well.
Kolbs are not rudder, but aileron aircraft. If you lose ailerons you
lose the aircraft. They don't fly long without aileron control.
1985, I experienced total aileron loss on my Ultrastar. One of the
aileron bell cranks pulled the weld out of the upper torque tube.
Immediately went into aileron flutter (no counter balance weights back
then). Luckily, I was flying 75 MPH straight and level, but at 250 feet
AGL. Without hesitation, I deployed my Jim Handbury hand deployed
parachute. Half an oscillation later, the blink of an eye, and I was on
the ground without a scratch. Airspeed was a major contributing factor
in getting a full canopy before I hit the ground. Thanks, Jim.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
England
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ultrastar dihedral
Well, Crankpot, while there are numerous insults that beg to be thrown
in response to insulting posts, let's stick to technical answers.
The primary reason to modify an a/c that doesn't respond to rudder input
with roll, is to add at least some chance of survival if there is a
failure of roll control. That's why it's included in certification
requirements for type certificated a/c (unless they have specific
missions that rule it out).
Your a/c; your choice, if it's experimental or ultralite.
Charlie
Message 3
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Herb and other interested parties:
I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the reg/rec,
re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to the engine
started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found that the rec/reg
that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have one good one,
probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I have a brand new
one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/
Larry
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
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Subject: | Re: regulator/Rec |
Good to hear, Larry. I hate elusive problems like that!!
Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com
On August 2, 2016 1:40:36 PM Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> wrote:
> Herb and other interested parties:
>
> I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the reg/rec,
> re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to the engine
> started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found that the rec/reg
> that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have one good one,
> probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I have a brand new
> one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/
> Larry
>
> --
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
> others.*
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
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Good deal Larry!
Curious, did you find any corrosion or bad connections?
I humbly suggest a wee drop of ACF-50 on crimped wire ends and any place
there are dissimilar metals such as copper wire terminal and steel bolt.
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 12:32 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec
Herb and other interested parties:
I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the
reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to
the engine started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found
that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have
one good one, probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I
have a brand new one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
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Subject: | Re: regulator/Rec |
The HKS is extremely sensitive to grounding problems. I have always in the
past with Rotax engines only grounded to the frame. Not good enough for the
HKS. You need to ground to the battery. I believe that was my problem
although there was some resistance in some of the connections.
Larry
On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net> wrote:
> Good deal Larry!
>
>
> Curious, did you find any corrosion or bad connections?
>
>
> I humbly suggest a wee drop of ACF-50 on crimped wire ends and any place
> there are dissimilar metals such as copper wire terminal and steel bolt.
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 02, 2016 12:32 PM
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: regulator/Rec
>
>
> Herb and other interested parties:
>
>
> I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the reg/rec,
> re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to the engine
> started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found that the rec/reg
> that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have one good one,
> probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I have a brand new
> one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/
>
> Larry
>
>
> --
>
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
> others.*
>
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: regulator/Rec |
Bad grounding seems to occur all the time. I bought a "grounding block" from B&C.
It is a copper block with a large lug for the battery ground and welded on
tabs for all the component grounds. Works great. All ground connections in
one place.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459127#459127
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: regulator/Rec |
Good to hear.... sometimes a broad brush approach is necessary...
I spent 22 years in the computer business...early on...a computer fixer
for IBM.....Over time I found that a good solution to a tough problem
was to go and get a cup of coffee and relax...Seems as though clearing
the head allowed a quick fix once back on task...
Herb
On 08/02/2016 12:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> Herb and other interested parties:
>
> I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the
> reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to
> the engine started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found
> that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I
> have one good one, probably the old one that I took off is good as
> well and I have a brand new one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/
> Larry
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant
> of others./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: regulator/Rec |
A cold boot didn't hurt either.
----- Original Message -----
From: Herb
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec
Good to hear.... sometimes a broad brush approach is necessary...
I spent 22 years in the computer business...early on...a computer
fixer for IBM.....Over time I found that a good solution to a tough
problem was to go and get a cup of coffee and relax...Seems as though
clearing the head allowed a quick fix once back on task...
Herb
On 08/02/2016 12:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
Herb and other interested parties:
I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the
reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the battery to
the engine started bolt, and all my problems went away. I even found
that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is still good. So now I have
one good one, probably the old one that I took off is good as well and I
have a brand new one on the way. I think I am fixed. :-/
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant
of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine
democracies give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: regulator/Rec |
A cold one is always the order of the day...after the durn puter is fixed!!
A funny....guy who sold me the airplane(not to be mentioned) forgot
and left the master sw on....so I took the tiny little battery out of
its holder...noticing how light and puny it looked...never
thought...Lithium?? But it was....and I killed it...or maybe it died
over the couple of days it sat with the master sw on? 160 bucks
....ouch!! gonna go with a sealed lead acid and a new, larger
holder...I am a bit surprised that a standard charging circuit for lead
acid batteries could reliably and safely charge a Lithium product...Must
have some electronics built into the battery? Herb
On 08/02/2016 07:18 PM, pcking wrote:
> A cold boot didn't hurt either.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Herb <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 02, 2016 7:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec
>
> Good to hear.... sometimes a broad brush approach is necessary...
>
> I spent 22 years in the computer business...early on...a computer
> fixer for IBM.....Over time I found that a good solution to a
> tough problem was to go and get a cup of coffee and relax...Seems
> as though clearing the head allowed a quick fix once back on task...
>
> Herb
>
>
> On 08/02/2016 12:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>> Herb and other interested parties:
>>
>> I finally redid all electrical connections from the engine to the
>> reg/rec, re-installed a new ground wire that runs from the
>> battery to the engine started bolt, and all my problems went
>> away. I even found that the rec/reg that I thought was trashed is
>> still good. So now I have one good one, probably the old one that
>> I took off is good as well and I have a brand new one on the way.
>> I think I am fixed. :-/
>> Larry
>>
>> --
>> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are
>> intolerant of others./
>> /
>> /
>> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my
>> email address before sending./
>
> --
> "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
>
> Aristotle
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: ground aerobatics... |
Boy here you go again... Not even close.
FAR 91.303
"...For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver
involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude,
or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight."
Maybe you were confused with the FAR that requires parachutes?
Just because you have a computer doesn't give you the right to fabricate or worse,
misquote regulations. Please consider there are many new pilots here that
are impressionable and unfortunately might take your nonsense as fact or law.
It's your responsibility to ONLY post fact. If you don't know then use words
like " I think" or "I don't know". To continue to do otherwise is disingenuous
and irresponsible.
Just sayin...
victorbravo(at)sbcglobal. wrote:
> By normal flight training standards, based on very old memories, a steep turn
is one that uses a bank angle 45 degrees or higher. 60 degrees is considered
the "steep turn" benchmark when you do FAA private pilot training (at least it
was in the 1970's when we had real pilot training).
>
>
>
>
> The FAA definition of "Aerobatics" is an excursion from level flight of more
than 30 degrees of pitch and 60 degrees of bank. But "aerobatic" maneuvers can
easily be done that exceed these numbers without putting any abnormal stress
or loads on the airplane... and are in reality not "dangerous" in any way. What
gets dangerous is when the pilot misjudges or mishandles the recovery from these
maneuvers, and can easily accidentally exceed the speed or G load limits
that the airframe can handle. THAT is the dangerous part, and THAT is why any
pilot with a brain in his head will get aerobatic or "upset recovery" training
before playing around with these kinds of maneuvers.
>
> The Kolb was of course not designed for aerobatics. It does not make any sense
to do intentional aerobatics in a Kolb. As mentioned by others, if you are going
to go out and do hard aerobatics on purpose then go rent a Citabria.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 5/6/16, flywithme wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: ground aerobatics...
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, May 6, 2016, 9:48 AM
>
>
> "flywithme"
>
> i see in some posts reference to the first pilot making a
> steep banking turn as being a dangerous maneuver in a kolb.
> is this really such a dangerous maneuver
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455928#455928
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
--------
1984 Kolb Ultrastar
Cuyuna ULII-02
Ultraprop
252 lbs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459136#459136
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: ground aerobatics... |
Boy here you go again... Not even close.
FAR 91.303
"...For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver
involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude,
or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight."
Maybe you were confused with the FAR that requires parachutes?
Just because you have a computer doesn't give you the right to fabricate or worse,
misquote regulations. Please consider there are many new pilots here that
are impressionable and unfortunately might take your nonsense as fact or law.
It's your responsibility to ONLY post fact. If you don't know then use words
like " I think" or "I don't know". To continue to do otherwise is disingenuous
and irresponsible.
Just sayin...
victorbravo(at)sbcglobal. wrote:
> By normal flight training standards, based on very old memories, a steep turn
is one that uses a bank angle 45 degrees or higher. 60 degrees is considered
the "steep turn" benchmark when you do FAA private pilot training (at least it
was in the 1970's when we had real pilot training).
>
>
>
>
> The FAA definition of "Aerobatics" is an excursion from level flight of more
than 30 degrees of pitch and 60 degrees of bank. But "aerobatic" maneuvers can
easily be done that exceed these numbers without putting any abnormal stress
or loads on the airplane... and are in reality not "dangerous" in any way. What
gets dangerous is when the pilot misjudges or mishandles the recovery from these
maneuvers, and can easily accidentally exceed the speed or G load limits
that the airframe can handle. THAT is the dangerous part, and THAT is why any
pilot with a brain in his head will get aerobatic or "upset recovery" training
before playing around with these kinds of maneuvers.
>
> The Kolb was of course not designed for aerobatics. It does not make any sense
to do intentional aerobatics in a Kolb. As mentioned by others, if you are going
to go out and do hard aerobatics on purpose then go rent a Citabria.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 5/6/16, flywithme wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: ground aerobatics...
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, May 6, 2016, 9:48 AM
>
>
> "flywithme"
>
> i see in some posts reference to the first pilot making a
> steep banking turn as being a dangerous maneuver in a kolb.
> is this really such a dangerous maneuver
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455928#455928
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
--------
1984 Kolb Ultrastar
Cuyuna ULII-02
Ultraprop
252 lbs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459137#459137
Message 13
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Subject: | RE: dead battery |
Herb,
If I remember right, a Li battery cannot take being discharged below a
certain point. Big warnings on my cordless drill about not using it
until it stops but recharge it as soon as it slows down.
Partial charging and repeated =9Ctop off=9D charges are
fine. Also they don=99t discharge when on the shelf like NiMH and
Ni-Cads did.
I would suspect the master switch left on is what killed your battery,
not your charging of it. On the flip side, I don=99t think it is
wise to use a charger designed for a lead-acid battery on an Li battery.
Sorry for your loss, Li is nice until you have to replace it. L
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec
A funny....guy who sold me the airplane(not to be mentioned) forgot
and left the master sw on....so I took the tiny little battery out of
its holder...noticing how light and puny it looked...never
thought...Lithium?? But it was....and I killed it...or maybe it died
over the couple of days it sat with the master sw on? 160 bucks
....ouch!! gonna go with a sealed lead acid and a new, larger
holder...I am a bit surprised that a standard charging circuit for lead
acid batteries could reliably and safely charge a Lithium product...Must
have some electronics built into the battery? Herb
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Ultrastar dihedral (Bill Berle) |
Thanks Bill Berle for your additional comments, highlighting for this
beginning pilot the relationship between dihedral and rudder function.
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