---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/03/16: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:23 AM - Re: Re: dead battery (Herb) 2. 05:30 AM - Firestar II partial kit (Herb) 3. 06:53 AM - Re: ground aerobatics... (Richard Pike) 4. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (Bill Berle) 5. 10:28 AM - Re: Firestar II partial kit (Bill Berle) 6. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (John Hauck) 7. 11:31 AM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (Bill Berle) 8. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (John Hauck) 9. 12:24 PM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (Charlie England) 10. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (Larry Cottrell) 11. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (Bill Berle) 12. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (william sullivan) 13. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: ground aerobatics... (K I) 14. 07:30 PM - big? (colin.scott.hudson@gmail.com) 15. 08:29 PM - Re: big? (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: dead battery From: Herb Yep....when I measured the voltage...it was around .6 volts...before I put a charger on it....so I knew it was dead...lead acid or Lithium....This particular battery is sold on Ebay and Amazon....160 bucks...there bouts...Labelled "Balistic". An equalizer is available that plugs into the battery to be used ever so often... Ha! The ad says that standard charging systems can be used... Herb On 08/02/2016 10:34 PM, Stuart Harner wrote: > > Herb, > > If I remember right, a Li battery cannot take being discharged below a > certain point. Big warnings on my cordless drill about not using it > until it stops but recharge it as soon as it slows down. > > Partial charging and repeated top off charges are fine. Also they > dont discharge when on the shelf like NiMH and Ni-Cads did. > > I would suspect the master switch left on is what killed your battery, > not your charging of it. On the flip side, I dont think it is wise to > use a charger designed for a lead-acid battery on an Li battery. > > Sorry for your loss, Li is nice until you have to replace it. L > > Stuart > > *From:*owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Herb > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 02, 2016 7:19 PM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: regulator/Rec > > A funny....guy who sold me the airplane(not to be mentioned) forgot > and left the master sw on....so I took the tiny little battery out of > its holder...noticing how light and puny it looked...never > thought...Lithium?? But it was....and I killed it...or maybe it died > over the couple of days it sat with the master sw on? 160 bucks > ....ouch!! gonna go with a sealed lead acid and a new, larger > holder...I am a bit surprised that a standard charging circuit for > lead acid batteries could reliably and safely charge a Lithium > product...Must have some electronics built into the battery? Herb > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar II partial kit From: Herb Bill What is missing in that kit? Herb -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:35 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... From: "Richard Pike" To Ultrastarflyer: I have noticed that you are fairly new to the list, and that you have several recent double posts - a second identical post a couple minutes after the first. This list server is often very slow to update. When you push the "Submit" button, go get a cup of coffee or find something else to do for a bit. It will eventually get posted. You don't need to get impatient and submit it again. Shalom -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Would you consider yourself to be a good person? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459157#459157 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:36 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... What's going on here, Crankpot? Did I take your parking spot at the grocery store, or did I steal your bike when we were kids or something? I'd like to understand what has made you irritated enough with me that you go back over two months (May 6) on this list, and find something that I wrote (in response to a completely different subject), and then try to lambaste me over it as if I was spreading false information. FIRST, let's address the inference that I am spreading false or misleading information, and harming innocent new pilots in the process: 91.303 may indeed say that "For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude..." and I accept that that definition of aerobatics exists in the FAR (or 14CFR nowdays). BUT... as you yourself pointed out... there is also ANOTHER definition of aerobatics that is directly relevant to what I had mentioned. Take a look at this description from EAA where they reference the FAR 91.307 aerobatics https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/parachutes-during-aerobatics I believe you will find that IN ADDITION to the one regulation you are hanging your argument on, another equally valid regulation mentions parachutes and aerobatics in reference to the 60 degrees of bank and 30 degrees of pitch that I had mentioned in my post. So, here is a way to validate your argument, and perhaps you can make me look like an idiot in the process... Have 10 instructors read BOTH of the FAR sections that have been referenced here. The one that says "... abrupt change..." and the one that says "... a bank exceeding 60 degrees..." Ask these instructors if they think the FAA considers over 60 degrees of bank an aerobatic maneuver or not. If the majority of those instructors say "No, a bank of over 60 degrees or pitch angle over 30 degrees is not an aerobatic maneuver", then I'm an idiot and my opinion posted on this list back in May was wrong. Now, back to the larger problem. Have the guts to explain exactly what it is that I have done, said, written, or thought that has made you dislike me enough to have tried to skewer me on this list when I have not done any such thing to you. Is it the color of my skin, my religion, my politics? Have we met someplace before and I was a jackass to you? You have every right to like or dislike me at your discretion, but just as pilots have a responsibility to not spread BS you have a responsibility to stand behind your statements and/or your dislike for me. Bill Berle Kolb Firestar 2 Cessna 172 Los Angeles -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/2/16, UltrastarFlyer wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2016, 7:26 PM "UltrastarFlyer" Boy here you go again... Not even close. FAR 91.303 "...For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight." Maybe you were confused with the FAR that requires parachutes? Just because you have a computer doesn't give you the right to fabricate or worse, misquote regulations. Please consider there are many new pilots here that are impressionable and unfortunately might take your nonsense as fact or law. It's your responsibility to ONLY post fact. If you don't know then use words like " I think" or "I don't know". To continue to do otherwise is disingenuous and irresponsible. Just sayin... victorbravo(at)sbcglobal. wrote: > By normal flight training standards, based on very old memories, a steep turn is one that uses a bank angle 45 degrees or higher. 60 degrees is considered the "steep turn" benchmark when you do FAA private pilot training (at least it was in the 1970's when we had real pilot training). > > > > > The FAA definition of "Aerobatics" is an excursion from level flight of more than 30 degrees of pitch and 60 degrees of bank. But "aerobatic" maneuvers can easily be done that exceed these numbers without putting any abnormal stress or loads on the airplane... and are in reality not "dangerous" in any way. What gets dangerous is when the pilot misjudges or mishandles the recovery from these maneuvers, and can easily accidentally exceed the speed or G load limits that the airframe can handle. THAT is the dangerous part, and THAT is why any pilot with a brain in his head will get aerobatic or "upset recovery" training before playing around with these kinds of maneuvers. > > The Kolb was of course not designed for aerobatics. It does not make any sense to do intentional aerobatics in a Kolb. As mentioned by others, if you are going to go out and do hard aerobatics on purpose then go rent a Citabria. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 5/6/16, flywithme wrote: > > Subject: Re: ground aerobatics... > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, May 6, 2016, 9:48 AM > > > "flywithme" > > i see in some posts reference to the first pilot making a > steep banking turn as being a dangerous maneuver in a kolb. > is this really such a dangerous maneuver > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455928#455928 > > > > > > > > Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. -------- 1984 Kolb Ultrastar Cuyuna ULII-02 Ultraprop 252 lbs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459136#459136 Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:10 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar II partial kit Herb Bill What is missing in that kit? Herb Here is the link to the full listing and photos: http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/sale-wanted/25677-kolb-firestar-2-airframe-kit.html Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8/3/16, Herb wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar II partial kit To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Wednesday, August 3, 2016, 5:30 AM -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:41 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... Why don't you two take your differences back copy. I'm not interested and pretty sure no one else is. If there are those on the List that are interested, they can join you all back copy also. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/2/16, UltrastarFlyer wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2016, 7:26 PM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:46 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... John H and Kolbers, I have no quarrel or difference with this person. Don't even know how he is. I have no idea what I did that made him upset, and I will apologize if I owe one. But instead of offline or back copy, he more or less called my integrity into question here on the main list. The only thing I have done is address his challenges directly, and to be honest I used some amount of restraint. 1) Perhaps the Kolb list participants who have read both of these exchanges between he and I can comment on whether they think my responses have been appropriate or not, and whether it is Crankpot or myself that needs some more dual instruction. 2) If the members of this list and/or the forum administrator feel that Crankpot was within his rights and privileges to fire a shot across my bow, but I am not within my rights or privileges to fire back, then let me know that too, and I will "govern myself accordingly" to quote another famous aviation internet forum. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8/3/16, John Hauck wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Wednesday, August 3, 2016, 10:53 AM "John Hauck" Why don't you two take your differences back copy. I'm not interested and pretty sure no one else is. If there are those on the List that are interested, they can join you all back copy also. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 12:24 PM To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/2/16, UltrastarFlyer wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2016, 7:26 PM Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:05 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... Why don't you knock this crap off. I am respectfully asking you and your buddy to play this game somewhere else besides the Kolb List. I'm too old to waste my time deleting this crap. I may be the only one that does not appreciate the conflict between you two, but I am expressing my request. This is a List for building and flying Kolb aircraft. This is not the place to settle pissing contests. john h - Never gotten above the rank of member in 18.5 years. Wonder why? mkIII Titus, Alabama 1) Perhaps the Kolb list participants who have read both of these exchanges between he and I can comment on whether they think my responses have been appropriate or not, and whether it is Crankpot or myself that needs some more dual instruction. 2) If the members of this list and/or the forum administrator feel that Crankpot was within his rights and privileges to fire a shot across my bow, but I am not within my rights or privileges to fire back, then let me know that too, and I will "govern myself accordingly" to quote another famous aviation internet forum. Bill Berle ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... From: Charlie England Well, to start, you could set a good example by voicing your complaints privately to both individuals, instead of posting it to the entire list. ;-) This is a more or less open list. If you don't like an open format, you could start a closed, censored forum like those of us who fly RV's are forced to live with on VAF. While you might prefer that format, those of us who enjoy thinking for ourselves and being able to speak our thoughts prefer the more open format we have here. Bill, I can totally understand & support your need to respond to Crankpot, but I'm reminded of the old saw about getting in the mud with a pig. Charlie On 8/3/2016 2:09 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Why don't you knock this crap off. > > I am respectfully asking you and your buddy to play this game somewhere else besides the Kolb List. > > I'm too old to waste my time deleting this crap. > > I may be the only one that does not appreciate the conflict between you two, but I am expressing my request. > > This is a List for building and flying Kolb aircraft. This is not the place to settle pissing contests. > > john h - Never gotten above the rank of member in 18.5 years. Wonder why? > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > > 1) Perhaps the Kolb list participants who have read both of these exchanges between he and I can comment on whether they think my responses have been appropriate or not, and whether it is Crankpot or myself that needs some more dual instruction. > > 2) If the members of this list and/or the forum administrator feel that Crankpot was within his rights and privileges to fire a shot across my bow, but I am not within my rights or privileges to fire back, then let me know that too, and I will "govern myself accordingly" to quote another famous aviation internet forum. > > Bill Berle > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:59 PM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... I second that emotion, all in favor- say aye! Larry On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 1:09 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Why don't you knock this crap off. > > I am respectfully asking you and your buddy to play this game somewhere > else besides the Kolb List. > > I'm too old to waste my time deleting this crap. > > I may be the only one that does not appreciate the conflict between you > two, but I am expressing my request. > > This is a List for building and flying Kolb aircraft. This is not the > place to settle pissing contests. > > john h - Never gotten above the rank of member in 18.5 years. Wonder why? > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > 1) Perhaps the Kolb list participants who have read both of these > exchanges between he and I can comment on whether they think my responses > have been appropriate or not, and whether it is Crankpot or myself that > needs some more dual instruction. > > 2) If the members of this list and/or the forum administrator feel that > Crankpot was within his rights and privileges to fire a shot across my bow, > but I am not within my rights or privileges to fire back, then let me know > that too, and I will "govern myself accordingly" to quote another famous > aviation internet forum. > > Bill Berle > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:30 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... I have sent an e-mail asking the forum owner/administrator for his opinion on this apparent conflict. His opinion will carry the most weight with me. I'm pretty sure that my responses to Crankpot on these two discussion threads were more restrained than his original posts. Once again I'll offer an apology to anyone I accidentally offended, although I don't make a habit of allowing people to poke at me with impunity... especially when I was not the aggressor in either exchange. Bill Berle -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8/3/16, Larry Cottrell wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" Date: Wednesday, August 3, 2016, 12:41 PM I second that emotion, all in favor- say aye!Larry On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 1:09 PM, John Hauck wrote: "John Hauck" Why don't you knock this crap off. I am respectfully asking you and your buddy to play this game somewhere else besides the Kolb List. I'm too old to waste my time deleting this crap. I may be the only one that does not appreciate the conflict between you two, but I am expressing my request. This is a List for building and flying Kolb aircraft. This is not the place to settle pissing contests. john h - Never gotten above the rank of member in 18.5 years. Wonder why? mkIII Titus, Alabama 1) Perhaps the Kolb list participants who have read both of these exchanges between he and I can comment on whether they think my responses have been appropriate or not, and whether it is Crankpot or myself that needs some more dual instruction. 2) If the members of this list and/or the forum administrator feel that Crankpot was within his rights and privileges to fire a shot across my bow, but I am not within my rights or privileges to fire back, then let me know that too, and I will "govern myself accordingly" to quote another famous aviation internet forum. Bill Berle ========== -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ========== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com ========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:27 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... For all of the new people on the List, it is customary to delete previous info from a reply. Leave just enough so that the conversation can be followed. If you just make a comment without any future research content, please put "do not archive" in the message, so it doesn't clog the servers. do not archive Bill Sullivan Why don't you knock this crap off. This is a List for building and flying Kolb aircraft. This is not the place to settle pissing contests. john h - Never gotten above the rank of member in 18.5 years. Wonder why? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:47 PM PST US From: K I Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ground aerobatics... ? Aye! Sent from my iPhone On Aug 3, 2016, at 13:45, Larry Cottrell > wrote: I second that emotion, all in favor- say aye! Larry On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 1:09 PM, John Hauck > wrote: jhauck@elmore.rr.com>> Why don't you knock this crap off. I am respectfully asking you and your buddy to play this game somewhere els e besides the Kolb List. I'm too old to waste my time deleting this crap. I may be the only one that does not appreciate the conflict between you two , but I am expressing my request. This is a List for building and flying Kolb aircraft. This is not the plac e to settle pissing contests. john h - Never gotten above the rank of member in 18.5 years. Wonder why? mkIII Titus, Alabama to:victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>> 1) Perhaps the Kolb list participants who have read both of these exchanges between he and I can comment on whether they think my responses have been appropriate or not, and whether it is Crankpot or myself that needs some mo re dual instruction. 2) If the members of this list and/or the forum administrator feel that Cra nkpot was within his rights and privileges to fire a shot across my bow, bu t I am not within my rights or privileges to fire back, then let me know th at too, and I will "govern myself accordingly" to quote another famous avia tion internet forum. Bill Berle -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?Kolb-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of othe rs. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addres s before sending. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:26 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: big? From: colin.scott.hudson@gmail.com Unable to display full message. 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________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: big? From: "Richard Pike" colin.scott.hudson(at)gma wrote: > Unable to display full message. You will view it by pressing here (http://ea631da7d.0a915990f5c3b07e0699d87f.ba9e6ace0.msgs-ll.com/?vw=855830&zgoz=1470277796&rms=ea631da7d6d88afa7ec2f506ba152c7c&li=3&jq=3.8.8829&gcuc=n29fLv1fnKA0DT1uqUWiozywpl5wo20=&aomi5rgh=M21unJjhL29g&xxsk=s_173) > yili { display: none; font-face: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; } koba { font-size 0.828em; } Matronics error message: ea3371 (Wed Aug 3 22:29:56 2016) ATTN Matt Dralle: I think this is a phishing post, the link he posted sets off my Avast! anti virus. Perhaps this thread could be deleted? Do not archive -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Would you consider yourself to be a good person? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459192#459192 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.