---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/18/16: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Re: HKS Engine Installation (Bill Berle) 2. 01:52 AM - Re: HKS Engine Installation (Richard Girard) 3. 02:05 AM - Re: HKS Engine Installation (Richard Girard) 4. 05:43 AM - Re: HKS Engine Installation (Larry Cottrell) 5. 10:51 AM - Re: HKS Engine Installation (Bill Berle) 6. 12:53 PM - Fw: hks engine mounting (Larry Cottrell) 7. 12:53 PM - Re: HKS Engine Installation (Richard Pike) 8. 12:55 PM - hks engine mounting (Larry Cottrell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:25 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS Engine Installation Can Larry C, or Rick Girard, or anyone else who has an HKS engine on their Kolb tell me how they installed it in such a way that the exhaust pipes (where they come out of the cylinders) clears the aileron torque tubes when you fold or unfold the wings?? I am in the process of figuring out the engine mounting on my Firestar. There is a clear and obvious interference, and the only way I can see to completely avoid this interference is to raise the engine up about 6 inches from where it would normally sit on the mount plate. Also, can anyone on the Kolb list tell me if it is possible or permissible to reverse the cylinders on the HKS, so that the exhaust pipes are on the opposite side from the gearbox? The cylinders are not identical, meaning that there is a left and a right cylinder. But IF it is possible to reverse them (move the right cylinder to the left side of the engine and vice versa), that would also resolve the interference mentioned above. I know I can contact the engie importer and ask this, but since I'm sending this to the Kolb list I figured I'd ask here too. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 9/17/16, Larry Cottrell wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: video To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" Date: Saturday, September 17, 2016, 7:08 AM The group didn't get enough time to explore Mickey Basin, so we took off again to do a bit more exploring. The nice part about the area is that we can land our planes and spend as much time on foot as we can stand. The area was the site of an early ranch, and has the remains of a building on it. It was pretty primitive at best, and I would hope that the conditions were different from what they are today. I know for sure that I wouldn't want to live there full time. The feral horses are attracted to the area because there are quite a few seeps and springs. The house wasn't all that big, even when it was all standing, and was made of native stone and held together with mud from the lake. The western term for the place would have been a "Rawhide" outfit. Denoting that it was held together with hide and scraps. Apparently baling wire hadn't been invented yet. https://vimeo.com/183088265 password, owyheeflyer Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:00 AM PST US From: Richard Girard Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS Engine Installation Bill, I'm attaching the service manual for the HKS. Maybe you can use that to check about the cylinders. As for raising the engine, had something similar on the PfH, see photo, didn't work worth a darn on a mk 3X. Rick On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:34 AM, Bill Berle wrote: > > Can Larry C, or Rick Girard, or anyone else who has an HKS engine on thei r > Kolb tell me how they installed it in such a way that the exhaust pipes > (where they come out of the cylinders) clears the aileron torque tubes wh en > you fold or unfold the wings?? > > I am in the process of figuring out the engine mounting on my Firestar. > There is a clear and obvious interference, and the only way I can see to > completely avoid this interference is to raise the engine up about 6 inch es > from where it would normally sit on the mount plate. > > Also, can anyone on the Kolb list tell me if it is possible or permissibl e > to reverse the cylinders on the HKS, so that the exhaust pipes are on the > opposite side from the gearbox? The cylinders are not identical, meaning > that there is a left and a right cylinder. But IF it is possible to rever se > them (move the right cylinder to the left side of the engine and vice > versa), that would also resolve the interference mentioned above. I know I > can contact the engie importer and ask this, but since I'm sending this t o > the Kolb list I figured I'd ask here too. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and > for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 9/17/16, Larry Cottrell wrote: > > Subject: Kolb-List: video > To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" > Date: Saturday, September 17, 2016, 7:08 AM > > The group didn't > get enough time to explore Mickey Basin, so we took off > again to do a bit more exploring. The nice part about the > area is that we can land our planes and spend as much time > on foot as we can stand. The area was the site of an early > ranch, and has the remains of a building on it. It was > pretty primitive at best, and I would hope that the > conditions were different from what they are today. I know > for sure that I wouldn't want to live there full time. > The feral horses are attracted to the area because there are > quite a few seeps and springs. > The house wasn't all that big, even when it > was all standing, and was made of native stone and held > together with mud from the lake. The western term for the > place would have been a "Rawhide" outfit. Denoting > that it was held together with hide and scraps. Apparently > baling wire hadn't been invented yet. > https://vimeo.com/183088265 > password, owyheeflyer > Larry > > -- > The > older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are > intolerant of others. > If you forward this email, or any part of > it, please remove my email address before sending. > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:09 AM PST US From: Richard Girard Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS Engine Installation Bill, Did some looking and there's a photo of the engine case on the bottom of page 25 that shows that the cylinders aren't symmetrical on the mounting boss. You'd also have to have a new cam ground to get the valve timing correct. Rick On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 3:50 AM, Richard Girard wrote : > Bill, I'm attaching the service manual for the HKS. Maybe you can use tha t > to check about the cylinders. As for raising the engine, had something > similar on the PfH, see photo, didn't work worth a darn on a mk 3X. > > Rick > > On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:34 AM, Bill Berle > wrote: > >> >> Can Larry C, or Rick Girard, or anyone else who has an HKS engine on >> their Kolb tell me how they installed it in such a way that the exhaust >> pipes (where they come out of the cylinders) clears the aileron torque >> tubes when you fold or unfold the wings?? >> >> I am in the process of figuring out the engine mounting on my Firestar. >> There is a clear and obvious interference, and the only way I can see to >> completely avoid this interference is to raise the engine up about 6 inc hes >> from where it would normally sit on the mount plate. >> >> Also, can anyone on the Kolb list tell me if it is possible or >> permissible to reverse the cylinders on the HKS, so that the exhaust pip es >> are on the opposite side from the gearbox? The cylinders are not identic al, >> meaning that there is a left and a right cylinder. But IF it is possible to >> reverse them (move the right cylinder to the left side of the engine and >> vice versa), that would also resolve the interference mentioned above. I >> know I can contact the engie importer and ask this, but since I'm sendin g >> this to the Kolb list I figured I'd ask here too. >> >> Bill Berle >> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft >> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and >> for-profit entities >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Sat, 9/17/16, Larry Cottrell wrote: >> >> Subject: Kolb-List: video >> To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" >> Date: Saturday, September 17, 2016, 7:08 AM >> >> The group didn't >> get enough time to explore Mickey Basin, so we took off >> again to do a bit more exploring. The nice part about the >> area is that we can land our planes and spend as much time >> on foot as we can stand. The area was the site of an early >> ranch, and has the remains of a building on it. It was >> pretty primitive at best, and I would hope that the >> conditions were different from what they are today. I know >> for sure that I wouldn't want to live there full time. >> The feral horses are attracted to the area because there are >> quite a few seeps and springs. >> The house wasn't all that big, even when it >> was all standing, and was made of native stone and held >> together with mud from the lake. The western term for the >> place would have been a "Rawhide" outfit. Denoting >> that it was held together with hide and scraps. Apparently >> baling wire hadn't been invented yet. >> https://vimeo.com/183088265 >> password, owyheeflyer >> Larry >> >> -- >> The >> older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are >> intolerant of others. >> If you forward this email, or any part of >> it, please remove my email address before sending. >> >> >> >> =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. =9D Groucho Marx > > > -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:03 AM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS Engine Installation Mine will clear using the same mounting as for a 503. You just have to hold the ailerons at a certain attitude when you fold, and that is only on the right side. There are different exhaust configurations available, none that I felt moved to explore. You would not like mounting the engine higher than absolutely necessary. Larry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:16 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS Engine Installation Thank you Larry, I will try that before I start making any changes or modifications or work-arounds. I was indeed trying to keep the engine as low as possible, with the "gearbox low" engine configuration. It was already obvious to this old washed up model airplane builder that the thrust line being too high will cause problems with performance and handling ! But it is good to hear that my own instinct matched the actual real-world experience of Kolb flyers. I tried to look up anything in the archives that addressed this problem, and it seems thata a David Bigelow in hawaii had this same concern on his Firestar. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/18/16, Larry Cottrell wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS Engine Installation To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" Date: Sunday, September 18, 2016, 5:42 AM Mine will clear using the same mounting as for a 503. You just have to hold the ailerons at a certain attitude when you fold, and that is only on the right side. There are different exhaust configurations available, none that I felt moved to explore. You would not like mounting the engine higher than absolutely necessary.Larry ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:33 PM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Kolb-List: Fwd: hks engine mounting ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Larry Cottrell Subject: hks engine mounting Bill, Before you have to ask, I thought that I would share with you what I had to do to make mine work. The original plans and the way that I set mine up following directions on a mount for a Slingshot are much different than what I ended up with. Original had the muffler and oil cooler in a line on top of the wing and in front of the engine. That did not work because all that stuff blocked the engine head cooling. In fact I obtained after quite a bit of testing, the alum shrouds that cover the cylinder heads, from Jerry @Green Sky. I am not sure if there are any available or not but I have a flattened tracing of what it takes to build them if you need them. There is no way that I could find that would keep the engine cool enough to use without them. I ended up with the oil cooler on the back of the cage, and that has worked for me. The only thing that would make it any better would be an adjustable baffle that you could use to open and close for the different outside temps. I currently use Gorrilla tape. The only other thing worth mentioning is the flat piece of alum that I secured to the back of the muffler. That stopped some of the swirling that we associate with drag, giving me cleaner air to the cylinder heads and carbs. It also has the additional effect of adding about 7 MPH to the top speed. I am sure that you could clean up the installation if one actually thought about where to place every thing before installation rather than as an afterthought. -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:39 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HKS Engine Installation From: "Richard Pike" Not to hijack the thread - but why is that 582 in Rick's picture mounted up so high? To clear the starter? -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Would you consider yourself to be a good person? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460575#460575 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:11 PM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Kolb-List: hks engine mounting Here are the rest of the pictures. They were all in one message, but the list refused them, so I have halved them in two messages. Larry -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.