---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/23/16: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:40 AM - Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (dirtracin) 2. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (Herb) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (Herb) 4. 07:15 AM - Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (dirtracin) 5. 07:20 AM - Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (dirtracin) 6. 07:32 AM - Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (dirtracin) 7. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (Herb) 8. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (Herb) 9. 08:02 AM - Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (dirtracin) 10. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (Herb) 11. 08:58 AM - Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (dirtracin) 12. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (william sullivan) 13. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (Richard Girard) 14. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (Richard Girard) 15. 04:24 PM - Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra (Rex Rodebush) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:26 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: "dirtracin" I got that info straight from my manual... I do have the 11th Mk3 Xtra.. So there maybe some differences from the newer models... I did set the wings at 3.4 last night which put me inline with the tab on the wing root but now the wing root is in contact with the flap tangs that stick out through the fuselage... And when I moved the wing outward to clear the flap tangs now the wing root tab that mounts to the fuselage is to far out to be pinned to the fuselage... Something is not right!.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461530#461530 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img008_162.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: Herb sounds like picture time...take some..and someone on the list will be able to help. Herb On 10/23/2016 07:40 AM, dirtracin wrote: > > I got that info straight from my manual... I do have the 11th Mk3 Xtra.. So there maybe some differences from the newer models... I did set the wings at 3.4 last night which put me inline with the tab on the wing root but now the wing root is in contact with the flap tangs that stick out through the fuselage... And when I moved the wing outward to clear the flap tangs now the wing root tab that mounts to the fuselage is to far out to be pinned to the fuselage... Something is not right!.. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461530#461530 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img008_162.jpg > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle "Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: Herb by the way...wondering if there is a difference between the MKIII C and the MkIII X root rib? Herb On 10/23/2016 07:40 AM, dirtracin wrote: > > I got that info straight from my manual... I do have the 11th Mk3 Xtra.. So there maybe some differences from the newer models... I did set the wings at 3.4 last night which put me inline with the tab on the wing root but now the wing root is in contact with the flap tangs that stick out through the fuselage... And when I moved the wing outward to clear the flap tangs now the wing root tab that mounts to the fuselage is to far out to be pinned to the fuselage... Something is not right!.. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461530#461530 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img008_162.jpg > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle "Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter... ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: "dirtracin" here are a few pics of what I'm dealing with... The wing is set at 3.4 degrees and is in contact with the flap tang/flange... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461535#461535 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/14716218_899158316881130_8794337127641064577_n_259.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: "dirtracin" here you can see the contact between the flap flange and the wing root when set at the 3.4 degrees... if I move the wing out then I dont have enough room to pin the wing root to the fuselage... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461536#461536 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/14724609_899158313547797_8819378937121285255_n_516.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/14721753_899158320214463_5055405320923361270_n_102.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:01 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: "dirtracin" there is an easy fix for this... If I'm doing this correctly... it looks like the flap rod that goes out to each side could be cut down a little and replaced... but I need to know what I'm doing is right before I go cutting stuff... I did do a search on incidence and it seems the older kolbs with the short landing gear used a different angle of incidence... ok I have the old version, but I have the newer longer curved landing gear... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461538#461538 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: Herb New Fuselage and old wings? The root ribs look different...? Herb On 10/23/2016 09:15 AM, dirtracin wrote: > > here are a few pics of what I'm dealing with... The wing is set at 3.4 degrees and is in contact with the flap tang/flange... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461535#461535 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/14716218_899158316881130_8794337127641064577_n_259.jpg > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle "Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter... ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: Herb Isn't that root rib mounting tab in the wrong location? Been a while and the one I rebuilt was a MkIII C.. Herb On 10/23/2016 09:20 AM, dirtracin wrote: > > here you can see the contact between the flap flange and the wing root when set at the 3.4 degrees... if I move the wing out then I dont have enough room to pin the wing root to the fuselage... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461536#461536 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/14724609_899158313547797_8819378937121285255_n_516.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/14721753_899158320214463_5055405320923361270_n_102.jpg > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle "Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter... ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: "dirtracin" It was bought as an unfinished kit... some of the parts were assembled when i bought it... at some point i think some of the parts where stored outdoors... the fuselage was pretty rusty before i had it powder coated so it looks newer than the wings... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461541#461541 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: Herb Looks as if all of the regular kolbers are off doing something else...? Naturally, Bryan at the factory would be glad to help.. I am wondering about the root rib more than anything at the moment...perhaps some pictures with a larger view might help...? Herb On 10/23/2016 10:02 AM, dirtracin wrote: > > It was bought as an unfinished kit... some of the parts were assembled when i bought it... at some point i think some of the parts where stored outdoors... the fuselage was pretty rusty before i had it powder coated so it looks newer than the wings... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461541#461541 > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle "Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:15 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: "dirtracin" lowering the wings has now created a new problem... the gap seal I have cannot work with the wings that low... the leading edge of the wing now sits lower than the upper windshield mount/bar... yet the gap seal I have the leading edge would have to be above the windshield mount/bar... I think I will just call Bryan tomorrow... thanks for responding... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461546#461546 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:26 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra The book says 1.4 degrees, and you say you set it at 3.4 degrees and it won't fit. Why the difference? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 10/23/16, dirtracin wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Sunday, October 23, 2016, 8:40 AM "dirtracin" I got that info straight from my manual... I do have the 11th Mk3 Xtra.. So there maybe some differences from the newer models... I did set the wings at 3.4 last night which put me inline with the tab on the wing root but now the wing root is in contact with the flap tangs that stick out through the fuselage... And when I moved the wing outward to clear the flap tangs now the wing root tab that mounts to the fuselage is to far out to be pinned to the fuselage... Something is not right!.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461530#461530 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img008_162.jpg Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:42 PM PST US From: Richard Girard Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra If it's an old 3X are the leading edges of the horizontal stabilizer set in the middle of the boom tube or near the top edge? The Mark 3C would have them set near the top edge and the early X's also used this setting. If you mix the "C" setting of the HS with the lower wing incidence of the "X" your airplane will not fly correctly. Rick On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 10:58 AM, dirtracin wrote: > > lowering the wings has now created a new problem... the gap seal I have > cannot work with the wings that low... the leading edge of the wing now > sits lower than the upper windshield mount/bar... yet the gap seal I have > the leading edge would have to be above the windshield mount/bar... I thi nk > I will just call Bryan tomorrow... thanks for responding... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461546#461546 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:21 PM PST US From: Richard Girard Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra Just realized I forgot about the gap cover. Yep, the "C" cover will not work with the "X" (latest) wing incidence setting. Attached are pictures of the one I made for the PfH. Rick PS Found the incidence numbers I used, although setting the motor mount at zero is a PITA, you end up the nose on the ground and the tail in the rafters. :-} 1) with motor mount set at level in BOTH directions, i.e.--0 degrees 2) boom tube should be -6.1 deg (mine was!!) 3) hor. stab should be -4.6 deg 4) dihedral should be 1.6 degrees per wing (I chose 2.7, because my diagonal struts were already made. When repositioning the wings to the new lower position, this has the effect of adding dihedral) 5) main wing should be +3.4 deg, but this has been revised to +2.8 deg After looking at the numbers I began to wonder if you aren't confusing the dihedral setting with the incidence setting. Just a thought. On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Richard Girard wrote : > Just realized I forgot about the gap cover. Yep, the "C" cover will not > work with the "X" (latest) wing incidence setting. Attached are pictures of > the one I made for the PfH. > > Rick > > PS Found the incidence numbers I used, although setting the motor mount a t > zero is a PITA, you end up the nose on the ground and the tail in the > rafters. :-} After looking at the numbers I began to wonder if you aren't > confusing the dihedral setting with the incidence setting. Just a thought .. > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Richard Girard > wrote: > >> If it's an old 3X are the leading edges of the horizontal stabilizer set >> in the middle of the boom tube or near the top edge? >> The Mark 3C would have them set near the top edge and the early X's also >> used this setting. If you mix the "C" setting of the HS with the lower w ing >> incidence of the "X" your airplane will not fly correctly. >> >> Rick >> >> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 10:58 AM, dirtracin wrote : >> >>> >>> lowering the wings has now created a new problem... the gap seal I have >>> cannot work with the wings that low... the leading edge of the wing now >>> sits lower than the upper windshield mount/bar... yet the gap seal I ha ve >>> the leading edge would have to be above the windshield mount/bar... I t hink >>> I will just call Bryan tomorrow... thanks for responding... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461546#461546 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. =9D Groucho >> Marx >> >> > > > -- > =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. =9D Groucho Marx > > > -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:54 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED HELP... Setting wing incidence on a Mk3 Xtra From: "Rex Rodebush" I have an Xtra that is the same vintage as yours (within 2 numbers). I ordered a MarkIII and then changed it when the Xtra came out. I called Brian in July, 2011 when I started final rigging. The numbers he gave me are very close to Rick's. At Motor mount of 0 degrees, wing is 3.4, boom is -6.1, horiz. stab is -4.8 (I have the larger horiz. stab.). I set my D.H. so the tips are about 2 1/4" high each side. I also have the longer heavy steel legs from Kolb. Be sure to take several readings and average them. Those numbers have worked great for me. I think the u-joints on the wing can be turned upside down and that also Kolb has make some a little different. I don't remember the details or exactly what I had to do to get his numbers. I do remember that it was a lot of hassle going back and forth. Change one thing and you affect everything else. You might call Brian if nothing seems to work. 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