Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 PM - Re: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing (Dennis Rowe)
2. 02:49 PM - Re: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing (Bill Berle)
3. 02:58 PM - 912 install (brubakermal@yahoo.com)
4. 03:22 PM - Re: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing (John Hauck)
5. 03:51 PM - Re: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing |
If I understand this correctly, you mounted your oil cooler to the engine base
plate which is setting on Lord mounts, and also to the rear spar carry through?
Sounds sketchy at best, I'd let the oil hoses do the flexing and mount the cooler
to the airframe only, away from the shaking engine.
Dennis Rowe
Mk3 Rotax 670
> On Dec 12, 2016, at 6:50 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> If I had not lost my camera, there would be photos attached to this post :)
>
> I have more or less finalized the layout and design for mounting my HKS engine
on the Firestar. Thanks to two fellow EAA chapter members, I have the engine
mounting plate cut, shaped, de-burred, lightened, and semi-smoothed. The engine
mount plate is semi-permanently mounted on the Kolb airframe Lord mounts. Putting
the correct length bolts in and installing the self-lock nuts instead of
the "shop work" plain nuts is the last step.
>
> The 3/8" aluminum engine mount plate was designed with a "wing-shaped" extension
on the starboard forward corner to serve as the rear mounting for the oil
cooler. After much head-scratching and "staring at it", the final position of
the oi l cooler was determined, and a rear mounting bracket was fabricated from
three pieces of aerospace surplus 2024-T3 extruded angle and (8) AN470AD4 rivets.
Since the rear of the cooler is mounted on something that moves, the forward
mounting had to provide enough "compliance" movement on all three axes. The
forward mount is a standoff with a single central pivot bolt that is retained
through two rubber grommets. This standoff mount is attached to the spar carry-through
using modified rubber-padded Adel clamps. This flexible mount arrangement
prevents the oil cooler itself from flexing, keeps the front of the cooler
attached securely to the airframe, but allows movement in any direction and
rotational movement on the bolt axis.
>
> The oil cooler is about 1.5 x 4 x 13 inches, and mounts lengthwise just inboard
of the starboard wing root. The top surface of the cooler is flush with the
top of the wing. Ram air will be fed to the cooler from a scoop on the underside
of the center section wing cover, travel upwards through the cooler, and exit
into the lower pressure airflow above the wing. Because the cooler is located
a foot behind the thickest point of the airfoil the "low pressure" area above
the wing is not 100% ideal, but it will still be far lower ambient pressure
than the underside of the wing. In order to have more of a pressure drop across
the cooler, I would have needed to move the cooler forward near the wing leading
edge, and this would require a more complex and heavier cantilever mounting
system.
>
> The engine has been mounted onto the engine mount plate more or less permanently.
I went from 1 inch risers under the engine to 2 inch risers. I believe this
is how Larry C's engine is mounted. Because I didn't want to raise the engine
any higher, there was still a difficult interference problem with the aileron
torque tubes and the exhaust pipes. I decided to use the system shown recently
on the photographs that were posted on the List.... a Y shaped exhaust with
the pipes coming inboard from the cylinders, meeting under the engine, and
the main muffler or exhaust pipe traveling vertically down the rear of the steel
cage.
>
> The large (dry sump) oil tank was another vexing problem that was finally (FINALLY!)
resolved to my satisfaction after weeks of head-scratching. A small weldment
consisting of two "half-pipe" pieces of steel tube crossed at 90 degrees
will allow the tank to mount directly to the Kolb keel tube, keeping it out
of the fuel and baggage areas and keeping the oil lines shorter/lighter. This
weldment will use large screw type "hose clamps" to hold the tank to the mount,and
the mount to the airframe. The HKS installation manual specifies a limited
range of "height" where the oil tank can be mounted. Too high above the oil
pump and it will flood or drown the oil pump, too low will make the oil pump work
too hard to lift the oil out of the tank.
>
> While waiting for this oil tank mount to be "finish-welded", I have started on
designing and fabricating the ignition component mounting plate, which will
be Adel clamped to the keel tube and the port side steel spar carry-through structure.This
will keep the ignition coils, electronic controllers, etc.close to
the engine and keep it out of the fuel and baggage areas.
>
> The repairs to the cockpit longerons (bending them back straight), and the structural
doublers to the wing spar pin attach lugs have been completed. Only a
couple of squirts of Zinc Chromate on the spar root main doubler plates remain.
After that all of the crash damage will have been repaired.
>
> Progress is agonizingly slow. But I'm trying to do things right, and extra safe.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 12/12/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Sighting in Florida...well, kinda
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, December 12, 2016, 2:05 PM
>
> Wendy: Sorry to hear about
> Patrick. I wish him well and will keep him in my
> prayers. Patrick and I go back a long
> way. He flew with a radio that had flown to Alaska in
> my MKIII. We met at Monument Valley about 2008.
> I have a photo of Patrick, John Williamson, and me, standing
> on the parking pad at MV airstrip. I found and
> attached the photo. I am going to miss
> Patrick's banter on the Kolb List. I know Larry
> Cottrell will miss Patrick's video/audio coaching.
> ;-) Take care my
> friend. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Patrick Ladd
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 10:38 AM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Sighting in
> Florida...well, kinda Dear JohnI
> have picked up your email on Pat's computer. I am
> sorry to tell you that Pat is terminally ill and is now in a
> nearby nursing home permanently.I
> am so sorry to be the bearer of such sad news. He has
> always enjoyed his association with the Kolb
> List.I would be grateful if you could
> circulate the list for me as I am unsure how to do
> this.Both Pat and I have fond memories
> of meeting you and the others in Monument Valley a few years
> ago.All the best to you
> allWendy
> Ladd
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing |
That's not quite correct Dennis, I mounted the rear of the oil cooler to the engine
mount plate, and the front of the oil cooler to the forward (main) spar carry-trough
tube. The front mount has rubber grommets and a pivot bolt, to prevent
the cooler from flexing, twisting, or bending. Essentially this design creates
a movable mount that is clamped to a fixed part of the airframe.
Tonight after work the oil tank mount gets finish-welded and hopefully painted,
and mounted to the airframe..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 12/15/16, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, December 15, 2016, 2:13 PM
Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
If I understand this correctly, you mounted your oil cooler
to the engine base plate which is setting on Lord mounts,
and also to the rear spar carry through?
Sounds sketchy at best, I'd let the oil hoses do the flexing
and mount the cooler to the airframe only, away from the
shaking engine.
Dennis Rowe
Mk3 Rotax 670
> On Dec 12, 2016, at 6:50 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
>
> If I had not lost my camera, there would be photos
attached to this post :)
>
> I have more or less finalized the layout and design for
mounting my HKS engine on the Firestar. Thanks to two fellow
EAA chapter members, I have the engine mounting plate cut,
shaped, de-burred, lightened, and semi-smoothed. The engine
mount plate is semi-permanently mounted on the Kolb airframe
Lord mounts. Putting the correct length bolts in and
installing the self-lock nuts instead of the "shop work"
plain nuts is the last step.
>
> The 3/8" aluminum engine mount plate was designed with
a "wing-shaped" extension on the starboard forward corner to
serve as the rear mounting for the oil cooler. After much
head-scratching and "staring at it", the final position of
the oi l cooler was determined, and a rear mounting bracket
was fabricated from three pieces of aerospace surplus
2024-T3 extruded angle and (8) AN470AD4 rivets. Since the
rear of the cooler is mounted on something that moves, the
forward mounting had to provide enough "compliance" movement
on all three axes. The forward mount is a standoff with a
single central pivot bolt that is retained through two
rubber grommets. This standoff mount is attached to the spar
carry-through using modified rubber-padded Adel clamps. This
flexible mount arrangement prevents the oil cooler itself
from flexing, keeps the front of the cooler attached
securely to the airframe, but allows movement in any
direction and rotational movement on the bolt axis.
>
> The oil cooler is about 1.5 x 4 x 13 inches, and mounts
lengthwise just inboard of the starboard wing root. The top
surface of the cooler is flush with the top of the wing. Ram
air will be fed to the cooler from a scoop on the underside
of the center section wing cover, travel upwards through the
cooler, and exit into the lower pressure airflow above the
wing. Because the cooler is located a foot behind the
thickest point of the airfoil the "low pressure" area above
the wing is not 100% ideal, but it will still be far lower
ambient pressure than the underside of the wing. In order to
have more of a pressure drop across the cooler, I would have
needed to move the cooler forward near the wing leading
edge, and this would require a more complex and heavier
cantilever mounting system.
>
> The engine has been mounted onto the engine mount plate
more or less permanently. I went from 1 inch risers
under the engine to 2 inch risers. I believe this is how
Larry C's engine is mounted. Because I didn't want to raise
the engine any higher, there was still a difficult
interference problem with the aileron torque tubes and the
exhaust pipes. I decided to use the system shown recently on
the photographs that were posted on the List.... a Y shaped
exhaust with the pipes coming inboard from the cylinders,
meeting under the engine, and the main muffler or exhaust
pipe traveling vertically down the rear of the steel cage.
>
> The large (dry sump) oil tank was another vexing
problem that was finally (FINALLY!) resolved to my
satisfaction after weeks of head-scratching. A small
weldment consisting of two "half-pipe" pieces of steel tube
crossed at 90 degrees will allow the tank to mount directly
to the Kolb keel tube, keeping it out of the fuel and
baggage areas and keeping the oil lines shorter/lighter.
This weldment will use large screw type "hose clamps" to
hold the tank to the mount,and the mount to the airframe.
The HKS installation manual specifies a limited range of
"height" where the oil tank can be mounted. Too high above
the oil pump and it will flood or drown the oil pump, too
low will make the oil pump work too hard to lift the oil out
of the tank.
>
> While waiting for this oil tank mount to be
"finish-welded", I have started on designing and fabricating
the ignition component mounting plate, which will be Adel
clamped to the keel tube and the port side steel spar
carry-through structure.This will keep the ignition coils,
electronic controllers, etc.close to the engine and keep it
out of the fuel and baggage areas.
>
> The repairs to the cockpit longerons (bending them back
straight), and the structural doublers to the wing spar pin
attach lugs have been completed. Only a couple of squirts of
Zinc Chromate on the spar root main doubler plates remain.
After that all of the crash damage will have been repaired.
>
> Progress is agonizingly slow. But I'm trying to do
things right, and extra safe.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 12/12/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Sighting in
Florida...well, kinda
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, December 12, 2016, 2:05 PM
>
> Wendy: Sorry to hear about
> Patrick. I wish him well and will keep him in my
> prayers. Patrick and I go back a long
> way. He flew with a radio that had flown to
Alaska in
> my MKIII. We met at Monument Valley about 2008.
> I have a photo of Patrick, John Williamson, and me,
standing
> on the parking pad at MV airstrip. I found and
> attached the photo. I am going to miss
> Patrick's banter on the Kolb List. I know Larry
> Cottrell will miss Patrick's video/audio coaching.
> ;-) Take care my
> friend. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf
> Of Patrick Ladd
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 10:38 AM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Sighting in
> Florida...well, kinda Dear JohnI
> have picked up your email on Pat's computer. I
am
> sorry to tell you that Pat is terminally ill and is now
in a
> nearby nursing home permanently.I
> am so sorry to be the bearer of such sad news. He
has
> always enjoyed his association with the Kolb
> List.I would be grateful if you could
> circulate the list for me as I am unsure how to do
> this.Both Pat and I have fond memories
> of meeting you and the others in Monument Valley a few
years
> ago.All the best to you
> allWendy
> Ladd
>
>
>
>
>
Lists This Month --
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Message 3
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I am making a list for a install of a 912. fuel lines .wiring plugs. coolen
t hoses .clamps . Im installing a Grand Rapids- EIS.- =0A=0ASent from Y
ahoo Mail on Android=0A=0A
Message 4
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Subject: | Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing |
Recommend mounting cooler to airframe with shock mounts. I used 4 each 582 radiator
shock mounts to hang my coolers, coolant and oil, piggy backed, from the
rear of the fuselage.
My experience mounting accessories to the engine resulted in severe vibration fatigue.
I have my doubts the way you are mounting your cooler, engine mount and rubber
grommets to the airframe.
If you decide to go that route, and I think you have, let us know how it works
out after a 100 hours or so.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Al
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing
That's not quite correct Dennis, I mounted the rear of the oil cooler to the engine
mount plate, and the front of the oil cooler to the forward (main) spar carry-trough
tube. The front mount has rubber grommets and a pivot bolt, to prevent
the cooler from flexing, twisting, or bending. Essentially this design creates
a movable mount that is clamped to a fixed part of the airframe.
Tonight after work the oil tank mount gets finish-welded and hopefully painted,
and mounted to the airframe..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 12/15/16, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, December 15, 2016, 2:13 PM
Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
If I understand this correctly, you mounted your oil cooler to the engine base
plate which is setting on Lord mounts, and also to the rear spar carry through?
Sounds sketchy at best, I'd let the oil hoses do the flexing and mount the cooler
to the airframe only, away from the shaking engine.
Dennis Rowe
Mk3 Rotax 670
> On Dec 12, 2016, at 6:50 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
plain nuts is the last step.
>
> The 3/8" aluminum engine mount plate was designed with a "wing-shaped" extension
on the starboard forward corner to serve as the rear mounting for the oil
cooler. After much head-scratching and "staring at it", the final position
of the oi l cooler was determined, and a rear mounting bracket was fabricated
from three pieces of aerospace surplus
2024-T3 extruded angle and (8) AN470AD4 rivets. Since the rear of the cooler
is mounted on something that moves, the forward mounting had to provide enough
"compliance" movement on all three axes. The forward mount is a standoff with
a single central pivot bolt that is retained through two rubber grommets.
This standoff mount is attached to the spar carry-through using modified rubber-padded
Adel clamps. This flexible mount arrangement prevents the oil cooler
itself from flexing, keeps the front of the cooler attached securely to the
airframe, but allows movement in any direction and rotational movement on
the bolt axis.
>
> The oil cooler is about 1.5 x 4 x 13 inches, and mounts lengthwise just inboard
of the starboard wing root. The top surface of the cooler is flush with
the top of the wing. Ram air will be fed to the cooler from a scoop on the underside
of the center section wing cover, travel upwards through the cooler,
and exit into the lower pressure airflow above the wing. Because the cooler
is located a foot behind the thickest point of the airfoil the "low pressure"
area above the wing is not 100% ideal, but it will still be far lower ambient
pressure than the underside of the wing. In order to have more of a pressure
drop across the cooler, I would have needed to move the cooler forward near
the wing leading edge, and this would require a more complex and heavier cantilever
mounting system.
>
> The engine has been mounted onto the engine mount plate more or less permanently.
I went from 1 inch risers under the engine to 2 inch risers. I believe
this is how Larry C's engine is mounted. Because I didn't want to raise the
engine any higher, there was still a difficult interference problem with the
aileron torque tubes and the exhaust pipes. I decided to use the system shown
recently on the photographs that were posted on the List.... a Y shaped exhaust
with the pipes coming inboard from the cylinders, meeting under the engine,
and the main muffler or exhaust pipe traveling vertically down the rear
of the steel cage.
>
> The large (dry sump) oil tank was another vexing problem that was finally (FINALLY!)
resolved to my satisfaction after weeks of head-scratching. A small
weldment consisting of two "half-pipe" pieces of steel tube crossed at 90 degrees
will allow the tank to mount directly to the Kolb keel tube, keeping it
out of the fuel and baggage areas and keeping the oil lines shorter/lighter.
This weldment will use large screw type "hose clamps" to hold the tank to the
mount,and the mount to the airframe.
The HKS installation manual specifies a limited range of "height" where the oil
tank can be mounted. Too high above the oil pump and it will flood or drown
the oil pump, too low will make the oil pump work too hard to lift the oil
out of the tank.
>
> While waiting for this oil tank mount to be "finish-welded", I have started
on designing and fabricating the ignition component mounting plate, which will
be Adel clamped to the keel tube and the port side steel spar carry-through
structure.This will keep the ignition coils, electronic controllers, etc.close
to the engine and keep it out of the fuel and baggage areas.
>
> The repairs to the cockpit longerons (bending them back straight), and the
structural doublers to the wing spar pin attach lugs have been completed. Only
a couple of squirts of Zinc Chromate on the spar root main doubler plates remain.
After that all of the crash damage will have been repaired.
>
> Progress is agonizingly slow. But I'm trying to do things right, and extra
safe.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 12/12/16, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Sighting in Florida...well, kinda > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, December 12, 2016, 2:05 PM > > Wendy:
Sorry to hear about > Patrick. I wish him well and will keep him in my >
prayers. Patrick and I go back a long > way. He flew with a radio that had
flown to Alaska in > my MKIII. We met at Monument Valley about 2008.
> I have a photo of Patrick, John Williamson, and me, standing > on the parking
pad at MV airstrip. I found and > attached the photo. I am going to miss
> Patrick's banter on the Kolb List. I know Larry > Cottrell will miss Patrick's
video/audio coaching.
> ;-) Take care my
> friend. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf
> Of Patrick Ladd
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 10:38 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject:
Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Sighting in > Florida...well, kinda Dear JohnI
> have picked up your email on Pat's computer. I am > sorry to tell you
that Pat is terminally ill and is now in a > nearby nursing home permanently.I
> am so sorry to be the bearer of such sad news. He has > always enjoyed
his association with the Kolb > List.I would be grateful if you could > circulate
the list for me as I am unsure how to do > this.Both Pat and I have
fond memories > of meeting you and the others in Monument Valley a few years
> ago.All the best to you > allWendy > Ladd > > > > >
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
www.mypilotstore.com
www.mrrace.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Firestar 2 Progress, slow but continuing |
OK, your first post was 3 days ago and you still don't have any pictures and my
feeble mind is having trouble figuring out just exactly what it is you are doing.
Do we need to take up a collection and buy you a camera, so you can post pictures?
(Appropriately resized of course) [Rolling Eyes]
And I say this with a clear conscience, because I spent Monday and Tuesday finishing
up the brake disc mounts/spacers for the FF wheels, and yesterday I finished
welding up the aileron linkage and lower cage tubes, took pictures, and sent
them to my partner for his approval, and have already heard back.
C'mon you slacker, post some pictures! [Laughing]
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463959#463959
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