Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:01 PM - Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter. (Larry Cottrell)
2. 02:08 PM - Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter. (B Young)
3. 03:48 PM - Re: Wing Tip Spads (Richard Pike)
4. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Wing Tip Spads (John Hauck)
5. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Wing Tip Spads (Larry Cottrell)
6. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Wing Tip Spads (Larry Cottrell)
7. 05:11 PM - aileron spades (jimswan)
8. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Wing Tip Spads (John Hauck)
9. 06:04 PM - Re: Re: Wing Tip Spads (Rick Neilsen)
10. 06:36 PM - Spades. Check it out. This is not the first go on the subject (B Young)
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| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
You make a proper pair. :-) Apparently you both had fun! Good for you.
Larry and Karen
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com> wrote:
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
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| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
More fun than the kids! Thought people could put the name to a face.
Boyd
On Dec 26, 2016 2:04 PM, "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> wrote:
You make a proper pair. :-) Apparently you both had fun! Good for you.
Larry and Karen
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com> wrote:
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Been thinking about this for a couple of days and the more I think about it the
more it sounds like a good idea. IMO my solution to heavy ailerons via reducing
throw/leverage works quite well, (or it has for the last 15 years) but you
guys certainly do have a point - what if you can have your cake and eat it too?
And maybe we can?
One of the considerations on any Kolb is the aileron twisting force; you apply
torque to the inboard end, and by the time that torque gets to the tip, you have
a lot of pressure accumulating, and typically, the aileron tube will twist
enough that you are not getting full deflection at the tip. Typically spades are
placed at the mid point of the aileron, but then I notice that most aerobatic
aircraft have the aileron pushrod at midpoint, so what they are doing is modifying
a major piece of hardware to do two jobs, and that's cool, but that's
not our situation. So what if we put some small spades at the tip? To counteract
the twist of the aileron tube throughout it's length? And reduce stick pressure?
Since most of the (maybe all?) of the heavier Kolbs require aileron counterbalances,
I wondered if it might be possible to install small spades on the front
end of the counterbalance rod. I was told that this is a bad idea due to the vortex's
/ wash coming out from under the bottom of the wing and curling around
the tip.
What if you made stand off's to position the spade a couple inches away from the
wing tip? Maybe a gap of 3 or 4 inches between the tip and the spade? (I am
like; "Dude: we already have this sturdy rod coming out of the aileron spar, and
aligned with the wing chord; is there any way we can put it to good use other
than just around carrying dead weight?")
I have been trying to learn from what others have done - here is a good thread, worth the read it you are interested in spades, but not exactly what I am proposing: http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=3920
Since we all have Experimental aircraft, experimenting w/o getting hurt might be
fun & worth the trouble by making these great little airplanes even better.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464410#464410
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Reduce the cord, reduce the load.
Ever notice how much aileron deflection is required to fly a Kolb? Very
little.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Richard,
I think that I can safely speak for the rest of the guy's and that is if
you want to do the work, we will be glad to take advantage of it. :-)
As I mentioned earlier, I have cleaned up as many of the drag factors on my
plane that I can, so it flies a bit faster than Homer probably intended. To
counteract the extra force required to use the ailerons, I have gotten in
the habit of using my right knee to help with the turns. This causes a
cramp in my right butt cheek about 40 minutes into the flights. Under the
right circumstances, I could probably do without the cramp.
Thanks,
Larry
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
wrote:
>
> Been thinking about this for a couple of days and the more I think about
> it the more it sounds like a good idea. IMO my solution to heavy ailerons
> via reducing throw/leverage works quite well, (or it has for the last 15
> years) but you guys certainly do have a point - what if you can have your
> cake and eat it too? And maybe we can?
>
> One of the considerations on any Kolb is the aileron twisting force; you
> apply torque to the inboard end, and by the time that torque gets to the
> tip, you have a lot of pressure accumulating, and typically, the aileron
> tube will twist enough that you are not getting full deflection at the tip.
> Typically spades are placed at the mid point of the aileron, but then I
> notice that most aerobatic aircraft have the aileron pushrod at midpoint,
> so what they are doing is modifying a major piece of hardware to do two
> jobs, and that's cool, but that's not our situation. So what if we put some
> small spades at the tip? To counteract the twist of the aileron tube
> throughout it's length? And reduce stick pressure?
>
> Since most of the (maybe all?) of the heavier Kolbs require aileron
> counterbalances, I wondered if it might be possible to install small spades
> on the front end of the counterbalance rod. I was told that this is a bad
> idea due to the vortex's / wash coming out from under the bottom of the
> wing and curling around the tip.
>
> What if you made stand off's to position the spade a couple inches away
> from the wing tip? Maybe a gap of 3 or 4 inches between the tip and the
> spade? (I am like; "Dude: we already have this sturdy rod coming out of the
> aileron spar, and aligned with the wing chord; is there any way we can put
> it to good use other than just around carrying dead weight?")
>
> I have been trying to learn from what others have done - here is a good
> thread, worth the read it you are interested in spades, but not exactly
> what I am proposing: http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=3920
>
> Since we all have Experimental aircraft, experimenting w/o getting hurt
> might be fun & worth the trouble by making these great little airplanes
> even better.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464410#464410
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
I personally am too lazy to build new ailerons. You should know that by
now. :-)\
Larry
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:37 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Reduce the cord, reduce the load.
>
> Ever notice how much aileron deflection is required to fly a Kolb? Very
> little.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 7
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The Firestar ll that I purchased several years ago had aileron spades that could
be detached from the aileron and that was the case when I looked at the plane....the
owner showed them to me ..they were I thought quite big and I thought
to myself that it made no sense to put such things on the ailerons and put all
that pressure on the hinges...so I left them thereat that time I am not sure
I knew what aileron spades were.....the seller was the 2nd owner of the plane.....later
on I talked with the builder of the plane and he said the spades worked
excellent and that I should have taken them.....after speaking with him
I came away thinking he might know what he was talking about...Note: the brackets
are still on the ailerons and I think they are in the middle....
--------
Jim Swan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464414#464414
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Hopefully, you won't have to build new ailerons for any reason. Me
either. My ailerons work just fine. Don't have the roll rate of an
Extra 300, but it isn't an Extra 300. It is a big old MKIII that hauls
whatever I can cram in it, from here to wherever I point the nose, and
back. If I had wanted a snappy airplane I would have built a Pitts.
Happy New Year everyone!
T-shirt and shorts at hauck's holler. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Tip Spads
I personally am too lazy to build new ailerons. You should know that by
now. :-)\
Larry
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Richard/All
That's a great idea. Just so happens I saw somewhere (Airventure?) where
someone did something like that on their Kolb. Anyone out there know
anything about it? Did it work at all, cause problems?????
Brian are you listening?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
wrote:
>
> Been thinking about this for a couple of days and the more I think about
> it the more it sounds like a good idea. IMO my solution to heavy ailerons
> via reducing throw/leverage works quite well, (or it has for the last 15
> years) but you guys certainly do have a point - what if you can have your
> cake and eat it too? And maybe we can?
>
> One of the considerations on any Kolb is the aileron twisting force; you
> apply torque to the inboard end, and by the time that torque gets to the
> tip, you have a lot of pressure accumulating, and typically, the aileron
> tube will twist enough that you are not getting full deflection at the tip.
> Typically spades are placed at the mid point of the aileron, but then I
> notice that most aerobatic aircraft have the aileron pushrod at midpoint,
> so what they are doing is modifying a major piece of hardware to do two
> jobs, and that's cool, but that's not our situation. So what if we put some
> small spades at the tip? To counteract the twist of the aileron tube
> throughout it's length? And reduce stick pressure?
>
> Since most of the (maybe all?) of the heavier Kolbs require aileron
> counterbalances, I wondered if it might be possible to install small spades
> on the front end of the counterbalance rod. I was told that this is a bad
> idea due to the vortex's / wash coming out from under the bottom of the
> wing and curling around the tip.
>
> What if you made stand off's to position the spade a couple inches away
> from the wing tip? Maybe a gap of 3 or 4 inches between the tip and the
> spade? (I am like; "Dude: we already have this sturdy rod coming out of the
> aileron spar, and aligned with the wing chord; is there any way we can put
> it to good use other than just around carrying dead weight?")
>
> I have been trying to learn from what others have done - here is a good
> thread, worth the read it you are interested in spades, but not exactly
> what I am proposing: http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=3920
>
> Since we all have Experimental aircraft, experimenting w/o getting hurt
> might be fun & worth the trouble by making these great little airplanes
> even better.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464410#464410
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Spades. Check it out. This is not the first go on the subject |
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=45270&highlight=spades
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