Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:24 AM - Vgs on my mkiii classic (B Young)
2. 08:53 AM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (John Hauck)
3. 08:57 AM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (Charlie England)
4. 08:57 AM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (Larry Cottrell)
5. 09:23 AM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (John Hauck)
6. 09:57 AM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (B Young)
7. 10:01 AM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (Bill Berle)
8. 12:42 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (william sullivan)
9. 01:25 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (B Young)
10. 01:40 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (B Young)
11. 02:09 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (John Hauck)
12. 02:13 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (B Young)
13. 02:26 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (B Young)
14. 02:35 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (John Hauck)
15. 02:52 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (Charlie England)
16. 03:55 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (John Hauck)
17. 04:00 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (Bill Berle)
18. 04:33 PM - Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic (John Hauck)
19. 07:44 PM - Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll
speed VG's on.
I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.
On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing. Between the ribs I put on
2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at the
front . I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130 mm apart. So
going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm. and I just did the outboard 2/3
thirds of each wing.
All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs
At idle
No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36
20 deg flaps 34 to 32
40 deg flaps 30 to 30.
All speeds are IAS
With 4200 rpm on the engine
No flaps 36. To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27
20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25
40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24
Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance on
level ground.
With vgs
the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up compared to 3 point.
The stall break was 8.6 deg nose up
I really wish I had done this year's ago!
Boyd
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
As soon as the weather breaks I have a set to install on my MKIII.
Should have gotten them on last year, but other "stuff" took priority on
my time.
Share with us the difference between stall/break in ground effect
landing and at altitude please.
Also, did you use the two sided sticky foam to attach? and what was the
OAT at the time?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:23 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll
speed VG's on.
I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.
On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing. Between the ribs I put
on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at
the front . I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130 mm
apart. So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm. and I just did
the outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing.
All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs
At idle
No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36
20 deg flaps 34 to 32
40 deg flaps 30 to 30.
All speeds are IAS
With 4200 rpm on the engine
No flaps 36. To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27
20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25
40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24
Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance
on level ground.
With vgs
the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up compared to 3 point.
The stall break was 8.6 deg nose up
I really wish I had done this year's ago!
Boyd
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:22 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll
> speed VG's on.
>
> I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.
> On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing. Between the ribs I put
> on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at
> the front . I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130 mm
> apart. So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm. and I just did the
> outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing.
>
> All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs
>
> At idle
> No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36
> 20 deg flaps 34 to 32
> 40 deg flaps 30 to 30.
>
> All speeds are IAS
>
> With 4200 rpm on the engine
> No flaps 36. To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27
> 20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25
> 40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24
>
> Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance
> on level ground.
>
> With vgs
> the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up compared to 3 point.
> The stall break was 8.6 deg nose up
>
> I really wish I had done this year's ago!
>
> Boyd
>
Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change
with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall?
(Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.)
I know that Kolbs aren't really about the other end of the spectrum, but
did it affect top speed, or fuel burn at your normal cruise speed?
Thanks for sharing the info,
Charlie
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
I really wish I had done this year's ago!
Boyd
Well, some of you guys are really stubborn! :-)
Larry
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
No comment!
Well...yes, I do have a comment. When Homer Kolb rebuilt the 1985
Oshkosh Grand Champion Ultralight, a 1985 Firestar, he put a little more
dihedral in the wings and added VGs. I got to fly this aircraft that
year and again after the rebuild. Unfortunately, I was having a lot of
fun with a dual carb 503 on an original FS and forgot all about the
numbers and stuff like that. It was a sky rocket. Marcus Kolb is still
flying his Dad's FS.
Can't wait until I can say, "Gosh, I wish I had done this years ago!!!"
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
I really wish I had done this year's ago!
Boyd
Well, some of you guys are really stubborn! :-)
Larry
Message 6
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
I don't recall thumping in a landing since installing the vgs . I
generally do a wheel landing, not much change there. What has been
referred to kolb's quit ( the stall) used to be quite sudden. With the
out board two thirds covered in vgs the center stalls first. And starts to
let you down But because there is so much more nose up possible before the
wing tips stall you can still pull back, to a greater angle of attack. My
tail wheel will hit a long time before the wing stalls. When the tail
wheel hits there is a loss of incidence, the mains come down with no
tendency to bounce.
I installed them last fall before it got too cold. 50 to 60 deg. I used
the tape John gilpen sent. It is not a foam tape. Just sticky and rather
thin. When I get a credit card in the mail, it is attached to the paper
with sticky. You can rub it off and roll it into a ball between your
thumb and finger. Same stuff, just way thinner. I had visited with
Roger while out to Larry's,. He had a couple come off,. But in the stickys
defence. Roger said it pulled the paint with it. His thoughts were the
paint was put on too dry and did not melt into the under laying paint.
In 10 to 12 hours I've not had any failure. I've flown in probably 10 deg
to 70 deg air.
Before vgs my mkiii would stall with no tendency for a wing to drop. That
has not changed.
I've not been up with a passenger, so I can't offer any help with a more
forward cg or gross weight.
I've not been on a long enough trip to comment on fuel economy. If it has
slowed me down the amount has been so little I really could not tell.
Even if it is 2 mph,. A 4 hour trip will be extended by 8 min. I'm not
going to worry. A tiny change in wind will make a bigger difference.
I think the center wing is stalling first. Between the first nibble of a
stall and the break. I remain in very positive control.
Also I believe there is more difference in speeds with the engine at 4200
because imho in my humble opinion. The prop is helping to pull the air
across the wing at a more favorable angle.
If you put vgs across the entire wing I believe you would get better
numbers than mine, but I think I like the stall nibble,. As a warning.
Of anyone has questions feel free.
Boyd
On Jan 30, 2017 9:56 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> As soon as the weather breaks I have a set to install on my MKIII. Should
> have gotten them on last year, but other "stuff" took priority on my time.
>
>
> Share with us the difference between stall/break in ground effect landing
> and at altitude please.
>
>
> Also, did you use the two sided sticky foam to attach? and what was the
> OAT at the time?
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-
> server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *B Young
> *Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 10:23 AM
> *To:* Kolb List
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
>
>
> I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll
> speed VG's on.
>
> I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.
> On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing. Between the ribs I put
> on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at
> the front . I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130 mm
> apart. So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm. and I just did the
> outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing.
>
> All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs
>
> At idle
> No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36
> 20 deg flaps 34 to 32
> 40 deg flaps 30 to 30.
>
> All speeds are IAS
>
> With 4200 rpm on the engine
> No flaps 36. To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27
> 20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25
> 40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24
>
> Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance
> on level ground.
>
> With vgs
> the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up compared to 3 point.
> The stall break was 8.6 deg nose up
>
> I really wish I had done this year's ago!
>
> Boyd
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers show about the same general
type of improvements as the VG's are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts,
Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that adding VG's will make it
appropriate to use a longer landing gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36 inch gear legs. Perhaps
when you install the VG's you can determine/document whether this will allow
you to make use of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in TO
and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--
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| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom of the
horizontal stabilizer, or the top? Are you going to add more?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at
10:22 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com>
wrote:
I don't think I have shared the performance
numbers after I put my Stoll speed VG's on.
I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal
stabilizer.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Bill
The vgs were installed as per instructions.
Vgs on the stabilizer are installed on the bottom abt 4 inches in front of
the hinge line to the rudder. I may do a bit more testing once the
weather breaks.
Boyd
On Jan 30, 2017 1:49 PM, "william sullivan" <williamtsullivan@att.net>
wrote:
> williamtsullivan@att.net>
>
> Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom of
> the horizontal stabilizer, or the top? Are you going to add more?
>
> Bill Sullivan
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at
> 10:22 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> I don't think I have shared the performance
> numbers after I put my Stoll speed VG's on.
> I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal
> stabilizer.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Bill
Longer gear legs could be an improvement, but last fall a bunch of us
landed on a dry lake bed, walked back to an area where we could see
steam. Adjacent to that steam we stepped off a 700 ft section of lake
bed, went back the next day and used half of it. Density altitude
about 5000 ft or maybe a bit higher. With longer legs, to get that down
to 200 ft, guess there are places that may be an advantage.
Boyd
The stock mkiii came with 15 x 600 x 6 tires
I now have 800 x 6. With the once offered tapered steel gear.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Thanks, Boyd. Were those tests conducted with or without beard?
Appreciate the info. My MKIII doesn't fly quite like yours, but they
have the same wing and tail section. I plan to install VGs all the way
across the wing and under the horizontal stab. If I have enough I may
try some on the vertical stab, both sides, to see what it does to the
rudder.
I don't know if JG experimented with the vert stab or not.
Can't wait to say I wish I hadn't waited so long. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Bill
The vgs were installed as per instructions.
Vgs on the stabilizer are installed on the bottom abt 4 inches in front
of the hinge line to the rudder. I may do a bit more testing once the
weather breaks.
Boyd
On Jan 30, 2017 1:49 PM, "william sullivan" <williamtsullivan@att.net>
wrote:
<williamtsullivan@att.net>
Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom
of the horizontal stabilizer, or the top? Are you going to add more?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at
10:22 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com>
wrote:
I don't think I have shared the performance
numbers after I put my Stoll speed VG's on.
I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal
stabilizer.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
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| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Boyd
Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change
with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall?
(Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.)
Charlie
*************
I've re read your question again and figure a better answer was needed.
While at 4200 rpm, and between the stall nibble and stall break, I still
had good aileron control. I think what is happening. There is an area
outside the prop arc with no vgs. The vgs start 2 to 3 feet outside the
arc. I believe that is the part of the wing that is stalling first. The
prop when at partial power ( due to its position and angle to the wing).
Pulls air across the top of the wing and prevents the far inboard area from
stalling. It is the inboard mid wing outside the prop arc and inside the
start of vgs that stalls first. Adding a few more vgs may eliminate some
of that. More vgs and testing needed. But I am not unhappy where I am. A
little loss of lift while in good control makes for an easy let down when
landing. Kind of like washout built into the wing. I just need to put in
my pilot hand book, to make the most of that benefit partial is needed.
Boyd
Message 13
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
John
I think on something like a short coupled Pitts vgs on the vertical may
help. The kolb has such a long moment arm to the tail I can't see any
benefit unless you were about to do a ground loop.
Boyd
Message 14
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Bill B/Kolbers:
Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS. Made a truly great deal of improvement
getting it in a good 3 pt stance.
Main reason I went with longer legs was:
-No brakes initially. Made some 4130 streamlined lift struts. Reduced the drag
so much I couldn't get slowed down enough to make safe landings on my 600 ft
grass strip with the FS in its original near level configuration. By going to
longer legs, a lot longer, I was able to turn up more of the bottom of the wing
to help slow me down on landing and roll out.
-Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because I could rotate much more
than the short legs.
-Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose off the ground and not
in that flat, squatty attitude.
I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would need a step stool to get
in and out of the airplane. As it is, I have to use the 8.00X6 tire to get
my butt over the longeron to get in the seat. Getting the bottom of the wing
turned up makes a lot of difference. When I am in good shape flying, that is
flying 3 or 4 times a week, or on a month or so long cross country, I touch down
as the needle is swinging through 30 mph. ASI is pretty close to being accurate.
I've landed in a plane's length or two with a good headwind. TO's are
also pretty rapid. Problem with TO's is power verses high pusher thrust line.
The more thrust applied the harder it is to get the airplane to break ground
so it can overcome the nose being pushed down so much. First TO after swapping
the 80 for a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I thought something was wrong
with the airplane because it wouldn't break ground at normal TO speed. Came
back on power a little and it popped right off.
I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this year, get back in the groove,
and possibly make another flight to the Rock House in SE Oregon. 2014 I
made a flight to MV and the Rock House at the ripe old age of 75. This September
would be nice to fly to the Rock House Flyin. I'll know more as the year
progresses, see how I feel and how I feel about taking on another transcontinental
flight. One way or the other I'll be at the Rock House Kolb Flyin if I have
to fly commercial. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers show about the same general
type of improvements as the VG's are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts,
Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that adding VG's will make it
appropriate to use a longer landing gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36 inch gear legs. Perhaps
when you install the VG's you can determine/document whether this will allow
you to make use of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in TO
and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 4:13 PM, B Young <byoungplumbing@gmail.com> wrote:
> Boyd
>
> Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change
> with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall?
> (Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.)
>
> Charlie
>
> *************
> I've re read your question again and figure a better answer was needed.
> While at 4200 rpm, and between the stall nibble and stall break, I still
> had good aileron control. I think what is happening. There is an area
> outside the prop arc with no vgs. The vgs start 2 to 3 feet outside the
> arc. I believe that is the part of the wing that is stalling first. The
> prop when at partial power ( due to its position and angle to the wing).
> Pulls air across the top of the wing and prevents the far inboard area from
> stalling. It is the inboard mid wing outside the prop arc and inside the
> start of vgs that stalls first. Adding a few more vgs may eliminate some
> of that. More vgs and testing needed. But I am not unhappy where I am. A
> little loss of lift while in good control makes for an easy let down when
> landing. Kind of like washout built into the wing. I just need to put in
> my pilot hand book, to make the most of that benefit partial is needed.
>
> Boyd
>
Ahh, yes; that makes sense. It seemed likely that accelerated airflow due
to the prop would keep the center section flying longer; that's what
prompted my question about control in stalled condition. If you've got a
section of wing inboard of the ailerons but outboard of the prop arc,
without the VGs, that would let you keep a more desirable stall. Might get
really interesting if you put 'em all the way across. :-)
Charlie
Message 16
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Charlie E/Kolbers:
One of the reason Homer designed such large ailerons was roll control in
the mush/stall.
All the Kolb models I have flown have the capability of getting into a
mush/stall with the stick full aft in a near level flying attitude with
complete roll control. I think this is something that gets low time
pilots in Kolbs into trouble. They get into a mush/stall and think they
are still flying when they are falling out of the sky and arrive at
Mother Earth with a smack. If the aircraft is kept level, the
mush/stall is a survivable crash. I have seen this happen on several
occasions, both times in US. Yes, I was an eye witness on the ground at
the time. One was my old buddy, Ed (RIP), and the other was a fella in
my US. ;-( I forget what the rate of decent is in my MKIII in a full
mush/stall. The rate of decent of an old (my era) T-10 parachute was 18
FPS, which is 1080 FPM. I'm going to have to go flying to remember what
the rate of decent was in a full mush/stall. I'm thinking 1500 to 2000
FPM. FS and single Kolbs would be less. MKIII falls a lot faster.
Most Kolbs will also climb, full throttle, stick full aft, prop going
into and out of cavitation, and still climbing.
These are some of the reasons I enjoy flying Kolbs. They have been my
aircraft of choice, capable of satisfying my many aviating desires.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Boyd
Ahh, yes; that makes sense. It seemed likely that accelerated airflow
due to the prop would keep the center section flying longer; that's what
prompted my question about control in stalled condition. If you've got a
section of wing inboard of the ailerons but outboard of the prop arc,
without the VGs, that would let you keep a more desirable stall. Might
get really interesting if you put 'em all the way across. :-)
Charlie
Message 17
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
John H please remember what was told to me by the great Ray Cote, who was once
the most successful airplane racer of them all in total number of wins. At my
very first race pilot briefing, the crafty old champion (and former Corsair pilot)
looked at me and said "Hey kid, Remember this... old age and treachery will
overcome youth and skill !" Mr. Cote then proceeded to pass me on the race
course like I was standing still :)
So for whatever the opinion of one of us weird Hollywood people is worth... Go
for it and make that XC trip at age 75. Heck, make a Kolb XC trip down to Tierra
del Fuego in Argentina at 80 !
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 2:35 PM
"John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Bill B/Kolbers:
Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS. Made a truly
great deal of improvement getting it in a good 3 pt stance.
Main reason I went with longer legs was:
-No brakes initially. Made some 4130 streamlined lift
struts. Reduced the drag so much I couldn't get slowed
down enough to make safe landings on my 600 ft grass strip
with the FS in its original near level configuration.
By going to longer legs, a lot longer, I was able to turn up
more of the bottom of the wing to help slow me down on
landing and roll out.
-Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because I
could rotate much more than the short legs.
-Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose off
the ground and not in that flat, squatty attitude.
I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would need
a step stool to get in and out of the airplane. As it
is, I have to use the 8.00X6 tire to get my butt over the
longeron to get in the seat. Getting the bottom of the
wing turned up makes a lot of difference. When I am in
good shape flying, that is flying 3 or 4 times a week, or on
a month or so long cross country, I touch down as the needle
is swinging through 30 mph. ASI is pretty close to
being accurate. I've landed in a plane's length or two
with a good headwind. TO's are also pretty
rapid. Problem with TO's is power verses high pusher
thrust line. The more thrust applied the harder it is
to get the airplane to break ground so it can overcome the
nose being pushed down so much. First TO after
swapping the 80 for a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I
thought something was wrong with the airplane because it
wouldn't break ground at normal TO speed. Came back on
power a little and it popped right off.
I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this year,
get back in the groove, and possibly make another flight to
the Rock House in SE Oregon. 2014 I made a flight to
MV and the Rock House at the ripe old age of 75. This
September would be nice to fly to the Rock House
Flyin. I'll know more as the year progresses, see how
I feel and how I feel about taking on another
transcontinental flight. One way or the other I'll be
at the Rock House Kolb Flyin if I have to fly
commercial. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 12:02 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers
show about the same general type of improvements as the VG's
are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts, Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that
adding VG's will make it appropriate to use a longer landing
gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36
inch gear legs. Perhaps when you install the VG's you can
determine/document whether this will allow you to make use
of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in TO
and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities
--
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Bill B/Kolbers:
I did do the flight to the Rock House at 75, three years ago. Now I'm contemplating
doing it at 78. Of course, contemplating is a long ways from doing.
I'll pass on Mexico and South America. Don't feel comfortable dealing with those
hoodlums. Hell, I have enough problems in CONUS, Canada, and Alaska.
john h
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 6:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
John H please remember what was told to me by the great Ray Cote, who was once
the most successful airplane racer of them all in total number of wins. At my
very first race pilot briefing, the crafty old champion (and former Corsair pilot)
looked at me and said "Hey kid, Remember this... old age and treachery will
overcome youth and skill !" Mr. Cote then proceeded to pass me on the race
course like I was standing still :)
So for whatever the opinion of one of us weird Hollywood people is worth... Go
for it and make that XC trip at age 75. Heck, make a Kolb XC trip down to Tierra
del Fuego in Argentina at 80 !
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 2:35 PM
"John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Bill B/Kolbers:
Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS. Made a truly great deal of improvement
getting it in a good 3 pt stance.
Main reason I went with longer legs was:
-No brakes initially. Made some 4130 streamlined lift struts. Reduced the drag
so much I couldn't get slowed down enough to make safe landings on my 600
ft grass strip with the FS in its original near level configuration. By going
to longer legs, a lot longer, I was able to turn up more of the bottom of
the wing to help slow me down on landing and roll out.
-Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because I could rotate much more
than the short legs.
-Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose off the ground and not
in that flat, squatty attitude.
I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would need a step stool to
get in and out of the airplane. As it is, I have to use the 8.00X6 tire to get
my butt over the longeron to get in the seat. Getting the bottom of the
wing turned up makes a lot of difference. When I am in good shape flying, that
is flying 3 or 4 times a week, or on a month or so long cross country, I touch
down as the needle is swinging through 30 mph. ASI is pretty close to
being accurate. I've landed in a plane's length or two with a good headwind.
TO's are also pretty rapid. Problem with TO's is power verses high pusher
thrust line. The more thrust applied the harder it is to get the airplane to
break ground so it can overcome the nose being pushed down so much. First
TO after swapping the 80 for a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I thought
something was wrong with the airplane because it wouldn't break ground at normal
TO speed. Came back on power a little and it popped right off.
I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this year, get back in the groove,
and possibly make another flight to the Rock House in SE Oregon. 2014
I made a flight to MV and the Rock House at the ripe old age of 75. This September
would be nice to fly to the Rock House Flyin. I'll know more as the
year progresses, see how I feel and how I feel about taking on another transcontinental
flight. One way or the other I'll be at the Rock House Kolb Flyin
if I have to fly commercial. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 12:02 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers show about the same
general type of improvements as the VG's are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts,
Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that adding VG's will make
it appropriate to use a longer landing gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36 inch gear legs. Perhaps
when you install the VG's you can determine/document whether this will allow
you to make use of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in
TO and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities
--
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
mojavjoe wrote:
> Richard;
>
> You wouldn't have had to trim your cable ends if you had used this little trick.
It's called spin welding, and it starts by rough cutting the wire cable
aprox. 6in. longer than needed, and then clamping vice grips at the point you
want the cable to end. Next chuck a drill set to its lowest speed setting to the
rigged end of the cable. Since wire cable can be wound clock wise or counter
clock wise set the drill to forward or reverse so the drill will tighten the
wire. Insure the vice grips will not move (put a brick on them or clamp in a
vice). Next heat the wire close to the vice grip jaws to red hot with a torch
slowly tighten the wire with the drill while pulling the drill away. The wire
will break with the ends fused. Sometimes there might be a wire end or two sticking
out of the weld but a file will take care of that.
>
>
Joe - You da Man! Spent today redoing the elevator and rudder control cables, and
despite my best efforts, could not get some of those old wires to go through
the nico sleeves. Remembered this post, and had my brother in law clamp one
side of the extra length of wire in one clamp, I held the other wire in a clamp
and used the torch to get the intervening piece of wire red hot. He twirled
it off, and it slipped through that nico slicker than whiz! Since it was a couple
inches from where we heated it to where we ended up cutting it off, the heat
was not an issue, so my previous misgivings were a non issue. Thank you! :D
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465592#465592
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