Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:10 AM - Re: : VG's: VG's (Peter Cowan)
2. 07:37 AM - Re: : VG's: VG's (racerjerry)
3. 10:02 AM - Re: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! (william sullivan)
4. 11:45 AM - Re: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! (Don G)
5. 02:45 PM - VGs Horizontal Stabilizer (John Hauck)
6. 04:49 PM - 503 mount (rayring)
7. 05:36 PM - Re: 503 mount (Larry Cottrell)
8. 05:42 PM - Re: 503 mount (John Hauck)
9. 06:56 PM - Re: : VG's: VG's (Richard Pike)
10. 07:28 PM - Kolb breakaway tailwheel (George Helton)
11. 08:24 PM - Re: : VG's: VG's (phcpilot)
12. 08:35 PM - Re: Kolb breakaway tailwheel (John Hauck)
13. 08:48 PM - Re: : VG's: VG's (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: : VG's: VG's |
Hello people.
Could someone help me understand the concept of the tail stalling and how
it is recognized? I've flown for many years in many different types
(although not yet but soon in a Kolb) and admit I am confused.
When the wing stalls, the nose drops. I have experienced this a few times.
Apparently (and correctly since the tail's functions is to provide a
downward force) when the tail stalls, the nose drops.
How do I tell what the cause is of the nose drop?
Please help me to get this.
thanks
Peter
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: : VG's: VG's |
Try Google: "Tail Stall".
>From what (little) I understand, tail stalls are usually due to ice accumulation
on the elevator. Very hard pull in flaring for landing COULD cause a tail
plane stall. Any condition that requires additional back pressure on the stick
increases the likelihood of a tail stall. For example, some airplanes pitch
down when flaps are extended, requiring additional back pressure (or trim).
Extreme nose heavy condition (forward CG) will also increase this tendency.
I hear that a wing stall is felt as a buffet through the entire airplane, while
buffeting through the yoke is indicative of a tail stall.
If tail stall is suspected, recover by DECREASING power, raising flaps and relaxing
stick pressure.
On a Kolb, as long as you do a proper weight & balance calculation (weigh with
YOU in the airplane) to insure that the CG is within allowable limits, a tail
stall should never be a problem.
Jerry King
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467947#467947
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! |
Don- Nice hearing from you. Your video "Take a ride in the Flagfly" is a favorite,
and should be watched by anyone who wants a Kolb. There ought to be a
permanent link to it! Thank you!
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
do not archive
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 4/1/17, Don G <donghe@one-eleven.net> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!!
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Saturday, April 1, 2017, 9:11 PM
"Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Greetings Kolbers, Long time no see! I just dropped
Matronics to check the RV list, as I bought an RV9A last
month. Not much action there so I thought I would sneek a
peek at The Kolb List. Really great to see all the familiar
names!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! |
Thanks Bill,
Yea, My brother put that video up..cause I didnt know how. I dont even have a link
that works for it an longer.
That bird is why I am looking for another Kolb for local flights and just plain
old enjoying altitude when I get a hour or so spare.. Ive owned alot of airplanes
in my 40 years of aviating, and I miss that one the most!
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467959#467959
Message 5
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| Subject: | VGs Horizontal Stabilizer |
Got the VGs on the horizontal stabilizers. Think I ended up with 31 or 32
on each side, 30mm spacing, 4" to the noses from the trailing edge of the
horizontal stabilizers, per John Gilpin's, Stoll Speed, instructions.
It was windy and rough when I flew an hour this afternoon. However, I did a
lot of landings, and a handful of dead stick landings. The aircraft makes
nice gentle landings despite my club fisted hand on the stick. I didn't
have a problem with elevator stall prior to installation, but I do sense of
improvement over what I had them installed.
All in all, a safer more forgiving aircraft over an aircraft that was
already safe and forgiving.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 6
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would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic.
Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring@windstream.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965
Message 7
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Try Kolb Aircraft.
Larry
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 5:48 PM, rayring <rayring@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic.
> Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring@windstream.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965
>
>
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
Message 8
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Kolb Aircraft has them.
Kolb needs all the support we can give them.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayring
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 6:48 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: 503 mount
would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic.
Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring@windstream.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: : VG's: VG's |
Regardless of the size of the passengers I have carried in my MKIII, I have never
had an instance of having the tail stall and the nose drop, so I'm not sure
that "tail stall" is the best way to describe what happens in a Kolb.
So let me just tell you the before and after of what does happen: in a MKIII Classic,
(and maybe the Xtra too? I dunnoe) all the useful load is ahead of the
CG. So when you add a passenger, you need up elevator trim. Or aft stick. Or both.
So far, so good.
Now add in a bunch of flaps (and the MKIII has a BUNCH of flaps) and you have increased
lift and drag, and also moved the center of lift further aft. The airplane
is now effectively nose heavier. If you are a lad who has not missed many
meals and you are taking Bubba for a ride, the tail is now working fairly hard
to hold the nose up.
Here is a prime example of how this plays out in real life: solo, I shoot an approach
on a calm day, 30 degrees of flaps, at 45 indicated. No problem, with VG's
on the wing the stall comes at 28 indicated.
Now I put Bubba in there with me, or maybe even his little brother instead of Bubba,
and I shoot an approach, under power, at 45 indicated. I am carrying 30
degrees of flaps. I am holding a certain amount of back stick, enough to keep
the approach and sink rate constant. When I get down to about 2 feet off the strip,
I pull back on the stick to flare, the elevators rise, and nothing happens.
I maintain the same angle of attack that I had before. The elevators have
nothing more to contribute.
Now I gap seal the elevators to the stab and add VG's. This allows me to shoot
the approach with Bubba and flaps and still be able to flare. Gap sealing the
elevators to the stab and adding VG's allows the elevators to work a bit harder
for a bit longer.
Was the tail stalled w/o the gap seal and VG's? Probably not, it just wasn't able
to be as effective.
Anyway, that has been my experience, and as Beauford (Boy, I miss him!) used to
say; worth what ya paid fer it.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467970#467970
Message 10
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| Subject: | Kolb breakaway tailwheel |
I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel assembly available f
rom Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I knew that Firestar 1 tha
t I was picking up from California and bring back home to Michigan had the o
ld cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail rod which are prone to fai
lure. This one failed the day after I unloaded the aircraft.
I'll finish the project tomorrow with the installation of new rudder horn to
tailwheel springs. You could also use some short compression type springs i
f you'd prefer?
George H.
14GDH
gdhelton@gmail.com
Mesick, Michigan
Have a great day!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: : VG's: VG's |
Thanks Richard. That sounds reasonable.
Jerry I believe that icing on the tail thing was the only explanation I could locate
last time I looked into this.
Richard, what engine do you have and did you just tape the elevator gap?
Peter
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467973#467973
Message 12
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| Subject: | Kolb breakaway tailwheel |
The old tail wheel failed? not the new one?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 9:25 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel
I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel assembly available
from Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I knew that Firestar 1
that I was picking up from California and bring back home to Michigan had
the old cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail rod which are prone
to failure. This one failed the day after I unloaded the aircraft.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: : VG's: VG's |
The MKIII has a 582, B box, 2.58:1, 68" Ivoprop.
I gap sealed the elevator to the stab with clear tape, be sure you put a narrow
piece of tape on the wide tape down the middle to keep it from collecting dirt.
And still plan to replace it every couple years; it gets nasty.
Details here: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Vortex%20Generators.html
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467975#467975
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