---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/02/17: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:10 AM - Re: : VG's: VG's (Peter Cowan) 2. 07:37 AM - Re: : VG's: VG's (racerjerry) 3. 10:02 AM - Re: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! (william sullivan) 4. 11:45 AM - Re: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! (Don G) 5. 02:45 PM - VGs Horizontal Stabilizer (John Hauck) 6. 04:49 PM - 503 mount (rayring) 7. 05:36 PM - Re: 503 mount (Larry Cottrell) 8. 05:42 PM - Re: 503 mount (John Hauck) 9. 06:56 PM - Re: : VG's: VG's (Richard Pike) 10. 07:28 PM - Kolb breakaway tailwheel (George Helton) 11. 08:24 PM - Re: : VG's: VG's (phcpilot) 12. 08:35 PM - Re: Kolb breakaway tailwheel (John Hauck) 13. 08:48 PM - Re: : VG's: VG's (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:21 AM PST US From: Peter Cowan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: : VG's: VG's Hello people. Could someone help me understand the concept of the tail stalling and how it is recognized? I've flown for many years in many different types (although not yet but soon in a Kolb) and admit I am confused. When the wing stalls, the nose drops. I have experienced this a few times. Apparently (and correctly since the tail's functions is to provide a downward force) when the tail stalls, the nose drops. How do I tell what the cause is of the nose drop? Please help me to get this. thanks Peter ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:10 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: : VG's: VG's From: "racerjerry" Try Google: "Tail Stall". >From what (little) I understand, tail stalls are usually due to ice accumulation on the elevator. Very hard pull in flaring for landing COULD cause a tail plane stall. Any condition that requires additional back pressure on the stick increases the likelihood of a tail stall. For example, some airplanes pitch down when flaps are extended, requiring additional back pressure (or trim). Extreme nose heavy condition (forward CG) will also increase this tendency. I hear that a wing stall is felt as a buffet through the entire airplane, while buffeting through the yoke is indicative of a tail stall. If tail stall is suspected, recover by DECREASING power, raising flaps and relaxing stick pressure. On a Kolb, as long as you do a proper weight & balance calculation (weigh with YOU in the airplane) to insure that the CG is within allowable limits, a tail stall should never be a problem. Jerry King -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467947#467947 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:10 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! Don- Nice hearing from you. Your video "Take a ride in the Flagfly" is a favorite, and should be watched by anyone who wants a Kolb. There ought to be a permanent link to it! Thank you! Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. do not archive -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 4/1/17, Don G wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Saturday, April 1, 2017, 9:11 PM "Don G" Greetings Kolbers, Long time no see! I just dropped Matronics to check the RV list, as I bought an RV9A last month. Not much action there so I thought I would sneek a peek at The Kolb List. Really great to see all the familiar names! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:12 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!! From: "Don G" Thanks Bill, Yea, My brother put that video up..cause I didnt know how. I dont even have a link that works for it an longer. That bird is why I am looking for another Kolb for local flights and just plain old enjoying altitude when I get a hour or so spare.. Ive owned alot of airplanes in my 40 years of aviating, and I miss that one the most! -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A RV9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467959#467959 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:06 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: VGs Horizontal Stabilizer Got the VGs on the horizontal stabilizers. Think I ended up with 31 or 32 on each side, 30mm spacing, 4" to the noses from the trailing edge of the horizontal stabilizers, per John Gilpin's, Stoll Speed, instructions. It was windy and rough when I flew an hour this afternoon. However, I did a lot of landings, and a handful of dead stick landings. The aircraft makes nice gentle landings despite my club fisted hand on the stick. I didn't have a problem with elevator stall prior to installation, but I do sense of improvement over what I had them installed. All in all, a safer more forgiving aircraft over an aircraft that was already safe and forgiving. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:09 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: 503 mount From: "rayring" would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic. Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring@windstream.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:25 PM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 503 mount Try Kolb Aircraft. Larry On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 5:48 PM, rayring wrote: > > would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic. > Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring@windstream.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965 > > -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:44 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 503 mount Kolb Aircraft has them. Kolb needs all the support we can give them. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayring Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 6:48 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 503 mount would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic. Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring@windstream.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: : VG's: VG's From: "Richard Pike" Regardless of the size of the passengers I have carried in my MKIII, I have never had an instance of having the tail stall and the nose drop, so I'm not sure that "tail stall" is the best way to describe what happens in a Kolb. So let me just tell you the before and after of what does happen: in a MKIII Classic, (and maybe the Xtra too? I dunnoe) all the useful load is ahead of the CG. So when you add a passenger, you need up elevator trim. Or aft stick. Or both. So far, so good. Now add in a bunch of flaps (and the MKIII has a BUNCH of flaps) and you have increased lift and drag, and also moved the center of lift further aft. The airplane is now effectively nose heavier. If you are a lad who has not missed many meals and you are taking Bubba for a ride, the tail is now working fairly hard to hold the nose up. Here is a prime example of how this plays out in real life: solo, I shoot an approach on a calm day, 30 degrees of flaps, at 45 indicated. No problem, with VG's on the wing the stall comes at 28 indicated. Now I put Bubba in there with me, or maybe even his little brother instead of Bubba, and I shoot an approach, under power, at 45 indicated. I am carrying 30 degrees of flaps. I am holding a certain amount of back stick, enough to keep the approach and sink rate constant. When I get down to about 2 feet off the strip, I pull back on the stick to flare, the elevators rise, and nothing happens. I maintain the same angle of attack that I had before. The elevators have nothing more to contribute. Now I gap seal the elevators to the stab and add VG's. This allows me to shoot the approach with Bubba and flaps and still be able to flare. Gap sealing the elevators to the stab and adding VG's allows the elevators to work a bit harder for a bit longer. Was the tail stalled w/o the gap seal and VG's? Probably not, it just wasn't able to be as effective. Anyway, that has been my experience, and as Beauford (Boy, I miss him!) used to say; worth what ya paid fer it. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467970#467970 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:28 PM PST US From: George Helton Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel assembly available f rom Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I knew that Firestar 1 tha t I was picking up from California and bring back home to Michigan had the o ld cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail rod which are prone to fai lure. This one failed the day after I unloaded the aircraft. I'll finish the project tomorrow with the installation of new rudder horn to tailwheel springs. You could also use some short compression type springs i f you'd prefer? George H. 14GDH gdhelton@gmail.com Mesick, Michigan Have a great day! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:47 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: : VG's: VG's From: "phcpilot" Thanks Richard. That sounds reasonable. Jerry I believe that icing on the tail thing was the only explanation I could locate last time I looked into this. Richard, what engine do you have and did you just tape the elevator gap? Peter Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467973#467973 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:24 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel The old tail wheel failed? not the new one? john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 9:25 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel assembly available from Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I knew that Firestar 1 that I was picking up from California and bring back home to Michigan had the old cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail rod which are prone to failure. This one failed the day after I unloaded the aircraft. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:40 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: : VG's: VG's From: "Richard Pike" The MKIII has a 582, B box, 2.58:1, 68" Ivoprop. I gap sealed the elevator to the stab with clear tape, be sure you put a narrow piece of tape on the wide tape down the middle to keep it from collecting dirt. And still plan to replace it every couple years; it gets nasty. Details here: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Vortex%20Generators.html -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. 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