---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/11/17: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:48 AM - Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England) 2. 05:27 AM - Re: covering supplier? (mojavjoe@comcast.net) 3. 06:10 AM - Re: covering supplier? (Hoppy) 4. 07:24 AM - Re: covering supplier? (Bill Berle) 5. 07:27 AM - Re: covering supplier? (Bill Berle) 6. 07:48 AM - Re: covering supplier? (Hoppy) 7. 09:57 AM - Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England) 8. 11:13 AM - Re: covering supplier? (Hoppy) 9. 12:06 PM - Re: covering supplier? (mojavjoe@comcast.net) 10. 12:46 PM - Re: covering supplier? (John Hauck) 11. 01:34 PM - Re: covering supplier? (Stuart Harner) 12. 01:34 PM - Re: covering supplier? (Stuart Harner) 13. 03:03 PM - Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England) 14. 03:03 PM - Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:31 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? This is the reference I've used; he supplies links to other research that he did. http://wienerdogaero.com/Latex.php I'm not paranoid about occasional use of most chemicals, but something cleaner/safer will work just as well, and save a bit of money at the same time, I'll take it. But don't expect mine to look like the results he gets. :-) Charlie On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Bill Berle wrote: > > Do a little research, the latex may be heavier than some other systems. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and > for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 4/10/17, Charlie England wrote: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, April 10, 2017, 8:53 PM > > England > > Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, > then. > > My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric > guy) is willing to try Stewart > System glue, so I think we'll give that > a shot. That plus Wienerdog > Aero's Latex painting technique, & > we should be good to go. :-) > > Charlie > > On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted > by: Hoppy > > > > Haven't checked in a while..but > think A/C spruce can ship Poly Fiber > > chemicals with no haz material > charge...? Herb > > > > > > On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy > wrote: > >> --> Kolb-List message > posted by: Hoppy > >> > >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 > bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb > >> > >> > >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, > Charlie England wrote: > >>> Anyone using a covering > supplier that's better (cheaper, better > >>> service, etc) than A/C > Spruce? > >> > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:35 AM PST US From: mojavjoe@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Charlie Another tip, buy Fastbond NF Green on Amazon, it's the same adhesive as Stewart at half the price Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 11:53:23 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, then. My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric guy) is willing to try Stewart System glue, so I think we'll give that a shot. That plus Wienerdog Aero's Latex painting technique, & we should be good to go. :-) Charlie On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > Haven't checked in a while..but think A/C spruce can ship Poly Fiber > chemicals with no haz material charge...? Herb > > > On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: >> >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb >> >> >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: >>> Anyone using a covering supplier that's better (cheaper, better >>> service, etc) than A/C Spruce? >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? From: Hoppy Joe Wondering if Fastbond would work with the Acetone,MEK based Poly Fiber products? I still have a quart of Poly Tac...but might use it for my next project...Herb On 04/11/2017 07:27 AM, mojavjoe@comcast.net wrote: > Charlie > > Another tip, buy Fastbond NF Green on Amazon, it's the same adhesive > as Stewart at half the price > > Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *"Charlie England" > *To: *"kolb-list" > *Sent: *Monday, April 10, 2017 11:53:23 PM > *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? > > > Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, then. > > My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric guy) is willing to try Stewart > System glue, so I think we'll give that a shot. That plus Wienerdog > Aero's Latex painting technique, & we should be good to go. :-) > > Charlie > > On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > > > Haven't checked in a while..but think A/C spruce can ship Poly Fiber > > chemicals with no haz material charge...? Herb > > > > > > On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: > >> > >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb > >> > >> > >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: > >>> Anyone using a covering supplier that's better (cheaper, better > >>> service, etc) than A/C Spruce? > >> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirbsp; > -Matt Dralle, List Adm======== > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:30 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? On Tue, 4/11/17, wrote: "Fastbond NF Green -- half the price" YEAH, baby :) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:17 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? What about this price... :) https://www.evroberts.com/3m-24/fastbond-30-nf-green-1120/ Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 4/11/17, wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? To: "kolb-list" Date: Tuesday, April 11, 2017, 5:27 AM Charlie Another tip,buy Fastbond NF Green on Amazon, it's the same adhesive as Stewartat half the price Joe From: "Charlie England" To: "kolb-list" Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 11:53:23 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, then. My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric guy) is willing to try Stewart System glue, so I think we'll give that a shot. That plus Wienerdog Aero's Latex painting technique, & we should be good to go. :-) Charlie On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > Haven't checked in a while..but think A/C spruce can ship Poly Fiber > chemicals with no haz material charge...? Herb > > > On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: >> >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb >> >> >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: >>> Anyone using a covering supplier that's better (cheaper, better >>> service, etc) than A/C Spruce? >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adm======== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? From: Hoppy Guess we need to get together on a quantity buy...:-) I will take a quart with free shipping....:-) Herb On 04/11/2017 09:23 AM, Bill Berle wrote: > > What about this price... :) > > https://www.evroberts.com/3m-24/fastbond-30-nf-green-1120/ > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 4/11/17, wrote: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? > To: "kolb-list" > Date: Tuesday, April 11, 2017, 5:27 AM > > Charlie > > Another tip, buy Fastbond NF Green on > Amazon, it's the same adhesive as Stewart at half > the price > > Joe > > From: > "Charlie England" > > To: "kolb-list" > > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 11:53:23 PM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? > > > > Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, then. > > My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric guy) is > willing to try Stewart > System glue, so I think we'll give that a shot. That > plus Wienerdog > Aero's Latex painting technique, & we should be good > to go. :-) > > Charlie > > On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > > > > Haven't checked in a while..but think A/C spruce > can ship Poly Fiber > > chemicals with no haz material charge...? Herb > > > > > > On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > >> > >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or > 2.6. Herb > >> > >> > >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: > >>> Anyone using a covering supplier that's > better (cheaper, better > >>> service, etc) than A/C Spruce? > >> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirbsp; > -Matt > Dralle, List Adm======== > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:56 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Hey Herb, Looks like I might need to rethink that. Are you talking about this: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/fabric/peelply3.php vs this: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/fabric/polyfiberuncertified.php ? The peel ply doesn't have any thread count or strength specs on the Spruce site, so I can't directly compare. Measurements indicate that I can half-wrap the wing with a 5' width of the peel ply, so the extra foot of Polyfiber would just get cut away, anyway. Thanks, Charlie On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 10:17 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Thanks; I've heard of using regular polyester fabric. But at roughly a $3 > price delta, it's only a $40 spread for all the fabric I'll need. > > On 4/10/2017 9:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: > >> >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb >> >> >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: >> >>> Anyone using a covering supplier that's better (cheaper, better service, >>> etc) than A/C Spruce? >>> >> >> > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? From: Hoppy the heavier fabric is much easier to work with imho.. 2.7 peel ply...just need to be careful tautening the fabric on the wings.. Interestingly...the older Challengers had no bottom rib runners...and the fabric just layed across the front and real spar.. root rib to wing tip!! a real flap in the breeze...I can imagine hitting a duck and having a real problem...not so much with a Kolb...Herb On 04/11/2017 11:57 AM, Charlie England wrote: > Hey Herb, > > Looks like I might need to rethink that. Are you talking about this: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/fabric/peelply3.php > vs this: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/fabric/polyfiberuncertified.php > > ? > > The peel ply doesn't have any thread count or strength specs on the > Spruce site, so I can't directly compare. Measurements indicate that I > can half-wrap the wing with a 5' width of the peel ply, so the extra > foot of Polyfiber would just get cut away, anyway. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > > On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 10:17 PM, Charlie England > > wrote: > > Thanks; I've heard of using regular polyester fabric. But at > roughly a $3 price delta, it's only a $40 spread for all the > fabric I'll need. > > On 4/10/2017 9:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > > > > Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb > > > On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > Anyone using a covering supplier that's better (cheaper, > better service, etc) than A/C Spruce? > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:07 PM PST US From: mojavjoe@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Bill I 'm reusing a pair of wings. I've already recovered one wing using the Stewart system and painted it along the lines of Weiner Dog, except I'm painting art scenes on the wings so more paint than normal. Weighed recovered wing against wing with old poly fiber. The new wing only weighed 3 oz more Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Berle" Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 10:23:33 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? What about this price... :) https://www.evroberts.com/3m-24/fastbond-30-nf-green-1120/ Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 4/11/17, wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Charlie Another tip, buy Fastbond NF Green on Amazon, it's the same adhesive as Stewart at half the price Joe From: "Charlie England" Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 11:53:23 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, then. My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric guy) is willing to try Stewart System glue, so I think we'll give that a shot. That plus Wienerdog Aero's Latex painting technique, & we should be good to go. :-) Charlie On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > Haven't checked in a while..but think A/C spruce can ship Poly Fiber > chemicals with no haz material charge...? Herb > > > On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: >> >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb >> >> >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: >>> Anyone using a covering supplier that's better (cheaper, better >>> service, etc) than A/C Spruce? >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adm========= ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:33 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Kolbers: I have never been one to mix and match when it came to covering an aircraft. Always used the Stitts/Polyfiber process. I never forget the unforgiving environment us aviators play. Always sad when I think of Steve Whitman and his wife dying because of a covering mix and match mistake. Realize it cost more to use the Polyfiber process, but am also comfortable knowing it'll be there for a long time. My right wing and most of my tail section is 26 year old Stitts process. Left wing is 16 years old. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:09 PM PST US From: "Stuart Harner" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: covering supplier? John, Nail, Head, direct hit! I think the latex system that Malcom has come up with is a good system and if I had the patience and skill to do all that wet sanding I might have gone that route. As much as I enjoyed building my Firefly, the goal was to fly! Don=99t mix processes and follow the instructions for the process you use. Stuart Do not archive From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 2:44 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Kolbers: I have never been one to mix and match when it came to covering an aircraft. Always used the Stitts/Polyfiber process. I never forget the unforgiving environment us aviators play. Always sad when I think of Steve Whitman and his wife dying because of a covering mix and match mistake. Realize it cost more to use the Polyfiber process, but am also comfortable knowing it'll be there for a long time. My right wing and most of my tail section is 26 year old Stitts process. Left wing is 16 years old. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:11 PM PST US From: "Stuart Harner" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: covering supplier? I asked Malcom about this at OSH a few years back. He said the weight is almost identical. He can sure put a beautiful finish on fabric! This is the perfect system for those who: Want to work without the "stink" Save money. Have more time than I do.... Stuart -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 12:21 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Do a little research, the latex may be heavier than some other systems. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 4/10/17, Charlie England wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, April 10, 2017, 8:53 PM Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, then. My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric guy) is willing to try Stewart System glue, so I think we'll give that a shot. That plus Wienerdog Aero's Latex painting technique, & we should be good to go. :-) Charlie On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Hoppy > > Haven't checked in a while..but think A/C spruce can ship Poly Fiber > chemicals with no haz material charge...? Herb > > > On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Hoppy >> >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb >> >> >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: >>> Anyone using a covering supplier that's better (cheaper, better >>> service, etc) than A/C Spruce? >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus The Kolb-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - via the Web Forums! - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - Email List Wiki! - List Contribution Web Site - support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:26 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? I appreciate the caution, and I'm not that prone to stray where no one's been before, either. I did order Poly brand cloth (polyester), and the Stewart System glue.Both the latex finishing technique, and the Stewart adhesive have been around for a long time, so I'm comfortable with those decisions. The Steve Whitman story, as I remember it, was that he switched from the old 'dope' and course weave fabric to the newer process. The story I heard was that the dope & course weave allowed you to position the fabric and then just apply dope to the outside, and it soaked through to the ribs. But the new, finer weave fabric & adhesive required applying the adhesive directly to the ribs, positioning the fabric, and then applying additional adhesive over the fabric, because the weave was too tight for the adhesive to easily soak through. Again, as I remember it, he mixed *techniques*; not the actual chemicals. By only applying the adhesive on the outside, only a minimal amount made it through to the ribs. Those with better memories, feel free to correct me if I'm mis-remembering. Charlie On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:43 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Kolbers: > > > I have never been one to mix and match when it came to covering an > aircraft. Always used the Stitts/Polyfiber process. > > > I never forget the unforgiving environment us aviators play. > > > Always sad when I think of Steve Whitman and his wife dying because of a > covering mix and match mistake. > > > Realize it cost more to use the Polyfiber process, but am also comfortable > knowing it'll be there for a long time. My right wing and most of my tail > section is 26 year old Stitts process. Left wing is 16 years old. > > > john h > > mkIII > > Titus, Alabama > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:28 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? I appreciate the caution, and I'm not that prone to stray where no one's been before, either. I did order Poly brand cloth (polyester), and the Stewart System glue.Both the latex finishing technique, and the Stewart adhesive have been around for a long time, so I'm comfortable with those decisions. The Steve Whitman story, as I remember it, was that he switched from the old 'dope' and course weave fabric to the newer process. The story I heard was that the dope & course weave allowed you to position the fabric and then just apply dope to the outside, and it soaked through to the ribs. But the new, finer weave fabric & adhesive required applying the adhesive directly to the ribs, positioning the fabric, and then applying additional adhesive over the fabric, because the weave was too tight for the adhesive to easily soak through. Again, as I remember it, he mixed *techniques*; not the actual chemicals. By only applying the adhesive on the outside, only a minimal amount made it through to the ribs. Those with better memories, feel free to correct me if I'm mis-remembering. Charlie On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:43 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Kolbers: > > > I have never been one to mix and match when it came to covering an > aircraft. Always used the Stitts/Polyfiber process. > > > I never forget the unforgiving environment us aviators play. > > > Always sad when I think of Steve Whitman and his wife dying because of a > covering mix and match mistake. > > > Realize it cost more to use the Polyfiber process, but am also comfortable > knowing it'll be there for a long time. My right wing and most of my tail > section is 26 year old Stitts process. Left wing is 16 years old. > > > john h > > mkIII > > Titus, Alabama > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.