---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/12/17: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - Re: covering supplier? (Lanny Lambdin) 2. 05:58 AM - Re: covering supplier? (phcpilot) 3. 06:55 AM - Polyester cloth (Richard Girard) 4. 07:30 AM - Re: Polyester cloth (John Hauck) 5. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England) 6. 12:30 PM - Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England) 7. 12:32 PM - Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England) 8. 02:33 PM - Re: Polyester cloth (Richard Pike) 9. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: Polyester cloth (Bill Berle) 10. 04:26 PM - ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery (Bill Berle) 11. 05:15 PM - Re: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery (Charlie England) 12. 05:35 PM - Re: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery (Larry Cottrell) 13. 07:24 PM - Re: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery (Jim Thomson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? From: Lanny Lambdin Hey, Guys, Just to add my 2 cents--I used the Stewart system on my second plane, after using Polyfiber on my first. It was a joy not dealing with MEK. The glue worked great, just be sure to wipe off the excess as you go. Two words of caution: 1-the filler/ uv block coating absorbs moisture and the finish colors "hate" water. The "how to" videos from the company on YouTube suggest using alcohol on the surface to get rid of finger prints before applying the color coats. I did so and when I started spraying color, it splotched and ran like I was spraying oil on water. I thought there must still be oil on the fabric, so I cleaned with alcohol Even more lavishly this time. After allowing to dry(I thought). Sprayed and same result. Called company and they told me that the surface was absorbing the water in the alcohol. Evidently the Eco fill (uv block and fabric filler) is hydrophilic, and the color coats hydrophobic! I had to use alcohol sparingly and dry all surfaces with time in the sun(when available and with heaters to stop the problem. 2-- make sure the paint is mixed to the exact viscosity and make sure your compressed can deliver continuous sufficient pressure. I had to really work not to get orange peel effect. My paint job looks great from 10 or 15' but up close there are areas of silky smooth finish and areas of slight orange peel. Good luck, Lanny Lambdin. P.S. On YouTube is a video- search for: Miss Sunshine Walkaround, to see the results on my plane. Sent from my iPad > On Apr 11, 2017, at 4:33 PM, Stuart Harner wrote: > > > I asked Malcom about this at OSH a few years back. He said the weight is almost identical. He can sure put a beautiful finish on fabric! > > This is the perfect system for those who: > Want to work without the "stink" > Save money. > Have more time than I do.... > > Stuart > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 12:21 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? > > > Do a little research, the latex may be heavier than some other systems. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 4/10/17, Charlie England wrote: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, April 10, 2017, 8:53 PM > > > Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, > then. > > My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric > guy) is willing to try Stewart > System glue, so I think we'll give that a shot. That plus Wienerdog Aero's Latex painting technique, & we should be good to go. :-) > > Charlie > >> On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: >> --> Kolb-List message posted > by: Hoppy >> >> Haven't checked in a while..but > think A/C spruce can ship Poly Fiber >> chemicals with no haz material > charge...? Herb >> >> >> On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy > wrote: >>> --> Kolb-List message > posted by: Hoppy >>> >>> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 > bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb >>> >>> >>> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, > Charlie England wrote: >>>> Anyone using a covering > supplier that's better (cheaper, better >>> service, etc) than A/C Spruce? >>> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses > by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > The Kolb-List Email Forum - > Navigator to browse > List Un/Subscription, > 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > via the Web Forums! > - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > Email List Wiki! > - List Contribution Web Site - > support! > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:51 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: covering supplier? From: "phcpilot" Here are my experiences with Latex which include a re-paint over an auto finish, re-cover of a fuselage and painting a stits type covering. The re-paint was on a fuselage which had some cracking and chipping of an older auto finish from firewall back past trailing edge of a Rans S7. I sanded and filled the crack/chip areas with poly filla (Yup) then had the hardware store do a colour match of some exterior latex paint. Actually these days it is called water based acrylic. Years ago you couldn't sand latex due to its rubbery nature. Not so these days. The result looked great with sort of a low gloss dope type finish. I have kept in touch with the owner of the plane because even I was skeptical of how long it would last. It has been many years now and he is still happy. In addition to acrylic paints, you should also keep clear water base urethane in mind. I recovered my homebuilt 170 fuselage (steel tube/fabric) and used clear urethane as first fill coat on the fabric and then put tapes on with it. It was great to work with. Also used the green hardware store water based contact cement for glue. Then sprayed on gloss acylic latex for finish coats. A buddy who is a long time dope and fabric guy was amazed at how great the tape seams and fill looked. At that time the glossiest acrylic was about as dull as a dope finish but with a lot fewer coats. Next I've done a complete S7 with acrylic using a cheap primer fill coat followed by gloss colour coats. High gloss is not an attribute of acrylic unless you want to do all that buffing but with a product from Home Hardware called Rust coat the finish is the best I've seen. Yes if you need a mirror finish be prepared to work but for a great looking dope or better than polytone, little sanding is required. For years I followed the suggestion from one site to use an airless sprayer. This was mistake, they put out way too much paint even with the fine nozzles. An inexpensive $50 HVLP gun is just fine and with way less likelihood of runs. Peter Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468328#468328 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:27 AM PST US From: Richard Girard Subject: Kolb-List: Polyester cloth To badly misquote Gertrude Stein, polyester is polyester is polyester. If you have the same weight fabric regardless of trade names (like Dacron for instance) and it's 100% polyester, its physical characteristics are going to be the same. Where you run into trouble is if any additives, called sizings, are put on the fabric. The first aircraft I covered was an Easyriser back in the mid seventies. Nitrate and butyrate dope over polyester dress sheathing. Worked great but I had to recover one wing and the kit didn't have any spare fabric so I went to the nearest fabric store with a sample. Which is where I learned about dress sheathing. I went home, covered the wing and finished it and moved on. Later I told a buddy this story when he was in need of fabric for his Catto wing project. He went to a different fabric store and the results were terrible. Which is where I learned about sizings. Seems that some manufacturers add a sizing containing silicone. Nothing sticks to it, which is great for slips and petty coats but not so much if you want to add further coatings on top of it. The same applies if you use it for peel ply. The silicone migrates to the composite and you're done for. That's the caveat you should beware of if you go shopping for polyester. Spruce and Wicks have peel ply that is sizing free, the same as Polyfiber, it just doesn't have the stamp. Rick Girard -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:59 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Polyester cloth I may have been given incorrect info many years ago. Never did the research on it. I was informed the difference between polyester Dacron for aircraft and for nurses' uniforms was: -Fabric for aircraft, both certified and uncertified was not preshrunk. -Fabric for uniforms/clothing was preshrunk. I was also told that a lubricate was applied to the threads of polyester Dacron during the weaving process to prevent the threads from burning. Threads are extremely small and weaving is extremely tight. I remember the problems I encountered with Stitts or Polyfiber HS90X. Very light weight, but loaded with lubricant. Unknown to me I started shooting dope and have never seen so many fish eyes. The fabric folks told me I needed to scrub the fabric with MEK prior to painting. This lightweight fabric was difficult to work with and vulnerable to punctures during covering. After that one time with HS90X I went back to D-103. The difference in weight was negligible but far greater durability. I can deal with a little extra weight, but I need durability. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 8:55 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Polyester cloth To badly misquote Gertrude Stein, polyester is polyester is polyester. If you have the same weight fabric regardless of trade names (like Dacron for instance) and it's 100% polyester, its physical characteristics are going to be the same. Where you run into trouble is if any additives, called sizings, are put on the fabric. The first aircraft I covered was an Easyriser back in the mid seventies. Nitrate and butyrate dope over polyester dress sheathing. Worked great but I had to recover one wing and the kit didn't have any spare fabric so I went to the nearest fabric store with a sample. Which is where I learned about dress sheathing. I went home, covered the wing and finished it and moved on. Later I told a buddy this story when he was in need of fabric for his Catto wing project. He went to a different fabric store and the results were terrible. Which is where I learned about sizings. Seems that some manufacturers add a sizing containing silicone. Nothing sticks to it, which is great for slips and petty coats but not so much if you want to add further coatings on top of it. The same applies if you use it for peel ply. The silicone migrates to the composite and you're done for. That's the caveat you should beware of if you go shopping for polyester. Spruce and Wicks have peel ply that is sizing free, the same as Polyfiber, it just doesn't have the stamp. Rick Girard -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: covering supplier? From: Charlie England Thanks, Peter. For you guys who've used latex, did you stick with the Glidden Gripper grey primer as shown on the Wienerdog Aero site, or something else? I can get the white primer (and other brands) locally, but will have to order the grey. No polishing for me; I'll be happy if the paint stays on & prevents UV damage. Thanks, Charlie On 4/12/2017 7:57 AM, phcpilot wrote: > > Here are my experiences with Latex which include a re-paint over an auto finish, re-cover of a fuselage and painting a stits type covering. > > The re-paint was on a fuselage which had some cracking and chipping of an older auto finish from firewall back past trailing edge of a Rans S7. I sanded and filled the crack/chip areas with poly filla (Yup) then had the hardware store do a colour match of some exterior latex paint. Actually these days it is called water based acrylic. Years ago you couldn't sand latex due to its rubbery nature. Not so these days. > The result looked great with sort of a low gloss dope type finish. I have kept in touch with the owner of the plane because even I was skeptical of how long it would last. It has been many years now and he is still happy. > > In addition to acrylic paints, you should also keep clear water base urethane in mind. I recovered my homebuilt 170 fuselage (steel tube/fabric) and used clear urethane as first fill coat on the fabric and then put tapes on with it. It was great to work with. Also used the green hardware store water based contact cement for glue. > > Then sprayed on gloss acylic latex for finish coats. A buddy who is a long time dope and fabric guy was amazed at how great the tape seams and fill looked. At that time the glossiest acrylic was about as dull as a dope finish but with a lot fewer coats. > > Next I've done a complete S7 with acrylic using a cheap primer fill coat followed by gloss colour coats. High gloss is not an attribute of acrylic unless you want to do all that buffing but with a product from Home Hardware called Rust coat the finish is the best I've seen. Yes if you need a mirror finish be prepared to work but for a great looking dope or better than polytone, little sanding is required. > > For years I followed the suggestion from one site to use an airless sprayer. This was mistake, they put out way too much paint even with the fine nozzles. An inexpensive $50 HVLP gun is just fine and with way less likelihood of runs. > Peter > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:02 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? Hi Joe, Has anyone verified that it's actually the same stuff? It might look, smell, feel, even taste the same, but the TDS for Fastbond reads like plain old contact cement. No mention of using heat to activate it, as described by Stewart. It wouldn't surprise me if it is the same stuff, but I'd like to *know* it's the same stuff. Thanks, Charlie On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 7:27 AM, wrote: > Charlie > > Another tip, buy Fastbond NF Green on Amazon, it's the same adhesive as > Stewart at half the price > > Joe > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Charlie England" > *To: *"kolb-list" > *Sent: *Monday, April 10, 2017 11:53:23 PM > *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? > > > Sounds like Spruce is the go-to place, then. > > My fabric guy (yeah, I've got a fabric guy) is willing to try Stewart > System glue, so I think we'll give that a shot. That plus Wienerdog > Aero's Latex painting technique, & we should be good to go. :-) > > Charlie > > On 4/10/2017 9:15 PM, Hoppy wrote: > > > > Haven't checked in a while..but think A/C spruce can ship Poly Fiber > > chemicals with no haz material charge...? Herb > > > > > > On 04/10/2017 09:10 PM, Hoppy wrote: > >> > >> Yep..Peel ply... around 5 bucks a yard...1.7 or 2.6. Herb > >> > >> > >> On 04/10/2017 06:45 PM, Charlie England wrote: > >>> Anyone using a covering supplier that's better (cheaper, better > >>> service, etc) than A/C Spruce? > >> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirbsp; > -Matt Dralle, List Adm======== > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:02 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: covering supplier? On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 8:15 PM, wrote: > Charlie > > Use the covering that A/C Spruce refers to as peel ply. > > Joe > I almost ordered it, but it's only 5' wide & I wasn't sure if that would have enough 'wrap' to do one side of a wing. If I do this sort of thing again, I'll certainly give it a try. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:54 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Polyester cloth From: "Richard Pike" Thanks Rick - good memories. I also recovered an Easy Riser with polyester dress sheath, guess I got lucky. I was so ignorant I didn't know you were supposed to use heat to shrink it; I treated it like a big model airplane and used enough clothespins, small weights and clamps that it was basically pretty tight once the glue dried. Then I brushed a couple coats of nitrate dope on it and it shrank up just like brushing Aero-Gloss on silk. Bought it used from Glen Rinck (who is on the FB U/L list) but since he was heavier than I was, if I hit a thermal under power and the seat unweighted, it would pitch over. Pretty scary. Called Chuck Slusarczyk and told him what I was doing and he gave me all the proper angles and measurements to rig the engine position/thrust line so it wouldn't kill me. From then on it flew just as stable as you could ask for. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468350#468350 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:18 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Polyester cloth I really miss Chuck Slusarczyk. Never got to fly with him, and I wasn't around the scene in the early UL days, but I met him through the old "usenet" internet forums, and then met him in person once or twice. Great guy, big heart. A model airplane builder and free flighter to boot :) Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 4/12/17, Richard Pike wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Polyester cloth To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2017, 2:33 PM Pike" Thanks Rick - good memories. I also recovered an Easy Riser with polyester dress sheath, guess I got lucky. I was so ignorant I didn't know you were supposed to use heat to shrink it; I treated it like a big model airplane and used enough clothespins, small weights and clamps that it was basically pretty tight once the glue dried. Then I brushed a couple coats of nitrate dope on it and it shrank up just like brushing Aero-Gloss on silk. Bought it used from Glen Rinck (who is on the FB U/L list) but since he was heavier than I was, if I hit a thermal under power and the seat unweighted, it would pitch over. Pretty scary. Called Chuck Slusarczyk and told him what I was doing and he gave me all the proper angles and measurements to rig the engine position/thrust line so it wouldn't kill me. From then on it flew just as stable as you could ask for. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468350#468350 The Kolb-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - via the Web Forums! - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - Email List Wiki! - List Contribution Web Site - support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:08 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Kolb-List: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery Well Kolbers, it's like this... My Firestar has Azusa Tri-Star 6 inch aluminum wheels on it. I want to keep the Azusa wheels because I can change a tire out in the field without having to have a big hydraulic tire changing machine (and Mariachi music in the background). I just bought a beautiful set of Tracy O'Brien hydraulic brakes for it. I want to use the Desser Tire Co.'s new 21 inch 8.00 x 6 "oversize tundra" tires. With the long gear legs and the big tires, I'll need an oxygen bottle to climb into the seat :) Boyd was kind enough to relate a story to me, about these tires not seating correctly on the wheel. Apparently he had a set of these tires that he could spin by hand on the wheel. That ain't right in my book either. So I called Desser tire Co. I asked the guy whether these tires should spin on the wheel. He said yes they do spin until you put air in them, and then you can't spin them. But this does NOT match my experience with putting wheels and tires together on my Cessna 172. Then I said I was putting these tires on Azusa wheels. He called me back 30 minutes later, said he went and checked with someone in the engineering department, and that yes they did have problems with Azusa wheels because they were too "flimsy". I asked what that had to do with their tire fitting on a 6 inch wheel. He said that the Azusa wheels were "not built to spec" and that's why they had problems. Put these tires on Matco wheels and there's no problem. That still didn't sound completely legit to me. Thousands of ultralights and light airplanes have flown on Azusa wheels for many years. And other "6 inch" tires seem to work just fine. So now I'm confused (again???) as to whether the Desser tires are the problem or the Azusa wheels are the problem. Question 1 - Have other Kolbers with Azusa wheels had problems with the wheels not "seating" on the tires, and hav ing the tires spin under braking? Question 2 - Has anyone had problems with the Desser 21-8.00 x 6 oversize tundra tires on any other TWO-PIECE wheels? Question 3 - Is there a known, good, light weight, off-road alternative tire to the Desser 21 inch tire for someone who wants large diameter tires? I have read on the Kolb list months ago about how SOME of the Carlisle tires are way out of balance, and how some golf cart tires work well and some don't, etc. After the money I invested in the O'Brien brakes,a nd the money I would have to spend to get different wheels and axles... I would PREFER to keep the Azusa wheels I have. With ALL due respect to those selling or flying with one piece wheels I am NOT interested in one piece "spun" wheels. There are no tire shops at the places where I plan to land my Kolb :) Anyone with experience or knowledge on this particular problem using Azusa wheels , I'm all ears! Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 4/12/17, Richard Pike wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Polyester cloth To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2017, 2:33 PM Pike" Thanks Rick - good memories. I also recovered an Easy Riser with polyester dress sheath, guess I got lucky. I was so ignorant I didn't know you were supposed to use heat to shrink it; I treated it like a big model airplane and used enough clothespins, small weights and clamps that it was basically pretty tight once the glue dried. Then I brushed a couple coats of nitrate dope on it and it shrank up just like brushing Aero-Gloss on silk. Bought it used from Glen Rinck (who is on the FB U/L list) but since he was heavier than I was, if I hit a thermal under power and the seat unweighted, it would pitch over. Pretty scary. Called Chuck Slusarczyk and told him what I was doing and he gave me all the proper angles and measurements to rig the engine position/thrust line so it wouldn't kill me. From then on it flew just as stable as you could ask for. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468350#468350 The Kolb-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - via the Web Forums! - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - Email List Wiki! - List Contribution Web Site - support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery From: Charlie England Hi Bill, I can't directly address your specific components, but in 'off-roading' (both automotive and aircraft), it's fairly common to run screws through the rims into the beads of the tires. When running very low pressures, it is possible to spin the tire on the rim, or even unseat the bead, if there's significant side load on the tire. I've even done it in a golf cart, when I got lazy & let the tire pressure get too low. Charlie On 4/12/2017 6:25 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > > Well Kolbers, it's like this... > > My Firestar has Azusa Tri-Star 6 inch aluminum wheels on it. I want to keep the Azusa wheels because I can change a tire out in the field without having to have a big hydraulic tire changing machine (and Mariachi music in the background). > > I just bought a beautiful set of Tracy O'Brien hydraulic brakes for it. I want to use the Desser Tire Co.'s new 21 inch 8.00 x 6 "oversize tundra" tires. With the long gear legs and the big tires, I'll need an oxygen bottle to climb into the seat :) > > Boyd was kind enough to relate a story to me, about these tires not seating correctly on the wheel. Apparently he had a set of these tires that he could spin by hand on the wheel. That ain't right in my book either. > > So I called Desser tire Co. I asked the guy whether these tires should spin on the wheel. He said yes they do spin until you put air in them, and then you can't spin them. But this does NOT match my experience with putting wheels and tires together on my Cessna 172. Then I said I was putting these tires on Azusa wheels. He called me back 30 minutes later, said he went and checked with someone in the engineering department, and that yes they did have problems with Azusa wheels because they were too "flimsy". I asked what that had to do with their tire fitting on a 6 inch wheel. He said that the Azusa wheels were "not built to spec" and that's why they had problems. Put these tires on Matco wheels and there's no problem. > > That still didn't sound completely legit to me. Thousands of ultralights and light airplanes have flown on Azusa wheels for many years. And other "6 inch" tires seem to work just fine. > > So now I'm confused (again???) as to whether the Desser tires are the problem or the Azusa wheels are the problem. > > Question 1 - Have other Kolbers with Azusa wheels had problems with the wheels not "seating" on the tires, and hav ing the tires spin under braking? > > Question 2 - Has anyone had problems with the Desser 21-8.00 x 6 oversize tundra tires on any other TWO-PIECE wheels? > > Question 3 - Is there a known, good, light weight, off-road alternative tire to the Desser 21 inch tire for someone who wants large diameter tires? I have read on the Kolb list months ago about how SOME of the Carlisle tires are way out of balance, and how some golf cart tires work well and some don't, etc. > > After the money I invested in the O'Brien brakes,a nd the money I would have to spend to get different wheels and axles... I would PREFER to keep the Azusa wheels I have. > > With ALL due respect to those selling or flying with one piece wheels I am NOT interested in one piece "spun" wheels. There are no tire shops at the places where I plan to land my Kolb :) > > Anyone with experience or knowledge on this particular problem using Azusa wheels , I'm all ears! > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 4/12/17, Richard Pike wrote: > > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Polyester cloth > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2017, 2:33 PM > > Pike" > > Thanks Rick - good memories. I also > recovered an Easy Riser with polyester dress sheath, guess I > got lucky. I was so ignorant I didn't know you were supposed > to use heat to shrink it; I treated it like a big model > airplane and used enough clothespins, small weights and > clamps that it was basically pretty tight once the glue > dried. Then I brushed a couple coats of nitrate dope on it > and it shrank up just like brushing Aero-Gloss on silk. > > Bought it used from Glen Rinck (who is > on the FB U/L list) but since he was heavier than I was, if > I hit a thermal under power and the seat unweighted, it > would pitch over. Pretty scary. Called Chuck Slusarczyk and > told him what I was doing and he gave me all the proper > angles and measurements to rig the engine position/thrust > line so it wouldn't kill me. From then on it flew just as > stable as you could ask for. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:45 PM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery I too have the new tundra tires waiting to be mounted, but what I am waiting on is a new set of rims from Matco. I currently have Matco hyd. brakes on the plane, and thought that I would keep my current 800X6 tires in reserve for a reason that escapes me at the moment. So I popped for the new "heavier" spun Matco wheels, that are on back order, for about three weeks now.. I have the 5 inch O'Brian mech brakes that I had set up with hand brakes prior to changing to the Hydraulic ones. For what it is worth I think the hand brakes are better. No much, but a hell of a lot less hassle. I tried to run the 800x6 tires with fairly low air pressure - 6-8 lbs, and spun a tire, shearing off the air nipple. So I got some tire screws and drilled 6 holes in the rims both sides and screwed the rims to the tire. 6 per side. It worked fine. I just went out and took an Azuza rim apart and stuck it in the Tundra 850x6 tire. If you push it so that the ribs that you can see on the rim engage, it does snap in and you cannot "easily" turn it. I do not trust it to not spin however, so if I use these rims again, I will screw them to the tire. If I do decide to wait for Matco to finally produce the rims that I have already paid for, I will also screw them to the rim as well rather than take a chance on spinning them. The attachments are of the 800x6 air tracks with 6 lbs of air and screws. The other is of the "ribs" in an Azuza rim that is apparently designed to keep the tire from spinning. The screws are from JEGs and are designated for the purpose of screwing the tire to the rim. Therefore they cost a lot more than a regular sheet metal 3/4 in screw. The holes in the rim are small enough for the screw to cut threads. Just in case you decide to go with the regular screws. You get to make your own decision. Larry On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Bill Berle wro te: > > So I called Desser tire Co. I asked the guy whether these tires should sp in on the wheel. He said yes they do spin until you put air in them, and th en you can't spin them. But this does NOT match my experience with putting wheels and tires together on my Cessna 172. Then I said I was putting thes e tires on Azusa wheels. He called me back 30 minutes later, said he went a nd checked with someone in the engineering department, and that yes they di d have problems with Azusa wheels because they were too "flimsy". I asked w hat that had to do with their tire fitting on a 6 inch wheel. He said that the Azusa wheels were "not built to spec" and that's why they had problems. Put these tires on Matco wheels and there's no problem. -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of othe rs. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:49 PM PST US From: Jim Thomson Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery Bill I read your discussion regarding Tundra tires. My thoughts are that light aircraft tires need to be tubeless. The advantage is one can run low tire pressure and not rip the valve stem out of the tube accelerating the tire and wheel upon landing. To my knowledge no tubeless system exist, and this is an opportunity for an enterprising individual to design and market a tubeless system. I fly a Kolb Mk3/ Rotax 582 Jim On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > I too have the new tundra tires waiting to be mounted, but what I am > waiting on is a new set of rims from Matco. I currently have Matco > hyd. brakes on the plane, and thought that I would keep my current > 800X6 tires in reserve for a reason that escapes me at the moment. So > I popped for the new "heavier" spun Matco wheels, that are on back > order, for about three weeks now.. > > I have the 5 inch O'Brian mech brakes that I had set up with hand > brakes prior to changing to the Hydraulic ones. For what it is worth I > think the hand brakes are better. No much, but a hell of a lot less > hassle. > > I tried to run the 800x6 tires with fairly low air pressure - 6-8 lbs, > and spun a tire, shearing off the air nipple. So I got some tire > screws and drilled 6 holes in the rims both sides and screwed the rims > to the tire. 6 per side. It worked fine. > > I just went out and took an Azuza rim apart and stuck it in the Tundra > 850x6 tire. If you push it so that the ribs that you can see on the > rim engage, it does snap in and you cannot "easily" turn it. I do not > trust it to not spin however, so if I use these rims again, I will > screw them to the tire. If I do decide to wait for Matco to finally > produce the rims that I have already paid for, I will also screw them > to the rim as well rather than take a chance on spinning them. > > The attachments are of the 800x6 air tracks with 6 lbs of air and screws. > > The other is of the "ribs" in an Azuza rim that is apparently designed > to keep the tire from spinning. > > The screws are from JEGs and are designated for the purpose of > screwing the tire to the rim. Therefore they cost a lot more than a > regular sheet metal 3/4 in screw. The holes in the rim are small > enough for the screw to cut threads. Just in case you decide to go > with the regular screws. > > You get to make your own decision. > Larry > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Bill Berle > wrote: > > > > So I called Desser tire Co. I asked the guy whether these tires should > spin on the wheel. He said yes they do spin until you put air in them, and > then you can't spin them. But this does NOT match my experience with > putting wheels and tires together on my Cessna 172. Then I said I was > putting these tires on Azusa wheels. He called me back 30 minutes later, > said he went and checked with someone in the engineering department, and > that yes they did have problems with Azusa wheels because they were too > "flimsy". I asked what that had to do with their tire fitting on a 6 inch > wheel. He said that the Azusa wheels were "not built to spec" and that's > why they had problems. Put these tires on Matco wheels and there's no > problem. > > > -- > The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > others. > > If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.