Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:07 AM - Re: Re: covering supplier? (mojavjoe@comcast.net)
2. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England)
3. 09:05 AM - Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) info request (Charlie England)
4. 07:18 PM - Re: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) (Richard Pike)
5. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) (Bob Underwood)
6. 07:52 PM - bracing (pipercolt)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: covering supplier? |
Charlie
My two cents again; I used white Gripper but any good acrylic primmer will do and
you can tint it toward your top coat. As I'm painting scenes on my wings and
fuselage I can't do the sanding described by Wiener Dog so I'm spraying on a
high gloss clear coat. The product I've settled on is Rustolem acrylic gloss
clear.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 11:03:16 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: covering supplier?
Thanks, Peter.
For you guys who've used latex, did you stick with the Glidden Gripper
grey primer as shown on the Wienerdog Aero site, or something else? I
can get the white primer (and other brands) locally, but will have to
order the grey.
No polishing for me; I'll be happy if the paint stays on & prevents UV
damage.
Thanks,
Charlie
On 4/12/2017 7:57 AM, phcpilot wrote:
>
> Here are my experiences with Latex which include a re-paint over an auto finish,
re-cover of a fuselage and painting a stits type covering.
>
> The re-paint was on a fuselage which had some cracking and chipping of an older
auto finish from firewall back past trailing edge of a Rans S7. I sanded and
filled the crack/chip areas with poly filla (Yup) then had the hardware store
do a colour match of some exterior latex paint. Actually these days it is called
water based acrylic. Years ago you couldn't sand latex due to its rubbery
nature. Not so these days.
> The result looked great with sort of a low gloss dope type finish. I have kept
in touch with the owner of the plane because even I was skeptical of how long
it would last. It has been many years now and he is still happy.
>
> In addition to acrylic paints, you should also keep clear water base urethane
in mind. I recovered my homebuilt 170 fuselage (steel tube/fabric) and used clear
urethane as first fill coat on the fabric and then put tapes on with it.
It was great to work with. Also used the green hardware store water based contact
cement for glue.
>
> Then sprayed on gloss acylic latex for finish coats. A buddy who is a long time
dope and fabric guy was amazed at how great the tape seams and fill looked.
At that time the glossiest acrylic was about as dull as a dope finish but with
a lot fewer coats.
>
> Next I've done a complete S7 with acrylic using a cheap primer fill coat followed
by gloss colour coats. High gloss is not an attribute of acrylic unless you
want to do all that buffing but with a product from Home Hardware called Rust
coat the finish is the best I've seen. Yes if you need a mirror finish be prepared
to work but for a great looking dope or better than polytone, little sanding
is required.
>
> For years I followed the suggestion from one site to use an airless sprayer.
This was mistake, they put out way too much paint even with the fine nozzles.
An inexpensive $50 HVLP gun is just fine and with way less likelihood of runs.
> Peter
>
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: covering supplier? |
Thanks Joe; that's good news. I'll just use a good quality primer & quit
worrying about it. Will a gallon take care of both wings (the multiple
coats required)?
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 7:06 AM, <mojavjoe@comcast.net> wrote:
> Charlie
>
> My two cents again; I used white Gripper but any good acrylic primmer
> will do and you can tint it toward your top coat. As I'm painting scenes
> on my wings and fuselage I can't do the sanding described by Wiener Dog so
> I'm spraying on a high gloss clear coat. The product I've settled on is
> Rustolem acrylic gloss clear.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
> *To: *"kolb-list" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 12, 2017 11:03:16 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: covering supplier?
>
>
> Thanks, Peter.
>
> For you guys who've used latex, did you stick with the Glidden Gripper
> grey primer as shown on the Wienerdog Aero site, or something else? I
> can get the white primer (and other brands) locally, but will have to
> order the grey.
>
> No polishing for me; I'll be happy if the paint stays on & prevents UV
> damage.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
> On 4/12/2017 7:57 AM, phcpilot wrote:
> >
> > Here are my experiences with Latex which include a re-paint over an auto
> finish, re-cover of a fuselage and painting a stits type covering.
> >
> > The re-paint was on a fuselage which had some cracking and chipping of
> an older auto finish from firewall back past trailing edge of a Rans S7. I
> sanded and filled the crack/chip areas with poly filla (Yup) then had the
> hardware store do a colour match of some exterior latex paint. Actually
> these days it is called water based acrylic. Years ago you couldn't sand
> latex due to its rubbery nature. Not so these days.
> > The result looked great with sort of a low gloss dope type finish. I
> have kept in touch with the owner of the plane because even I was skeptical
> of how long it would last. It has been many years now and he is still happy.
> >
> > In addition to acrylic paints, you should also keep clear water base
> urethane in mind. I recovered my homebuilt 170 fuselage (steel tube/fabric)
> and used clear urethane as first fill coat on the fabric and then put tapes
> on with it. It was great to work with. Also used the green hardware store
> water based contact cement for glue.
> >
> > Then sprayed on gloss acylic latex for finish coats. A buddy who is a
> long time dope and fabric guy was amazed at how great the tape seams and
> fill looked. At that time the glossiest acrylic was about as dull as a dope
> finish but with a lot fewer coats.
> >
> > Next I've done a complete S7 with acrylic using a cheap primer fill coat
> followed by gloss colour coats. High gloss is not an attribute of acrylic
> unless you want to do all that buffing but with a product from Home
> Hardware called Rust coat the finish is the best I've seen. Yes if you need
> a mirror finish be prepared to work but for a great looking dope or better
> than polytone, little sanding is required.
> >
> > For years I followed the suggestion from one site to use an airless
> sprayer. This was mistake, they put out way too much paint even with the
> fine nozzles. An inexpensive $50 HVLP gun is just fine and with way less
> likelihood of runs.
> > Peter
> >
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus softwarebsp;
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> ====
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) |
info request
John,
You mentioned leading edge bracing. This is all I see in the Twinstar I'm
restoring. There's nothing along the rest of the leading edge that
triangulates/ braces the leading edge.
Would you consider this adequate? It's easy to add now, with the cover
coming off.
Thanks,
Charlie
Thanks, John. I wasn't sure about how rugged the tubes would be when
driving out mandrels, etc. I use similar tricks on the heavier
experimentals I've owned. I've got a spring loaded center punch that I
ground to a flat nosed, straight shaft, & use it to punch out driven rivets
after drilling the heads. I also use small, flush cutting 'dykes'
(diagonal wire cutters) to grab pop rivet heads
On 4/9/2017 5:58 PM, John Hauck wrote:
<jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Charlie E/Kolbers:
I have recovered a bunch of them. All that I tore up and a few I didn't.
Drilling rivets can be accomplished once you have the mandrels
removed. It takes a 1/16" punch, or you can use a pulled mandrel,
grind the end flat, hold with vise grips, and knock out with a hammer.
The rivet needs to be held to prevent spinning. I grind a V in the
end of a hack saw blade with sharp beveled edges. Use that to push up
under the rivet to lock it in place while drilling.
4130 airframes should be tube sealed when fabricated. 99% of Kolbs
probably have never been tube sealed. Their builders probably never
heard of tube sealing. 4130 rusts from inside out if not sealed.
That would worry me with an old fuselage, especially a Twinstar. I
can't remember exactly what the fuselage looks like other that the
root tube that seats and stuff are attached to. This I would make
sure is rust free on the inside.
I helped Brother Jim rebuild Adriel Heisey's Twinstar, Navajo Nation
pilot that shot aerial photos published in Nat Geo and other pubs,
that he crashed in a wind storm. It was frightening when we started
cutting tubing. Most were rusted well beyond serviceability. Here
are photos of his Twinstar:
https://uanews.arizona.edu/story/aerial-photos-of-archaeological-sites-on-exhibit-at-state-museum
I don't recall anyone flying a free air cooled Rotax on a Kolb
successfully. Yours may be an exception.
Don't know of any published updates for the Twinstar. It was not a
popular model and kits only produced a couple years.
Strong lateral bracing of the leading edge of the wing is extremely
important to me. Poor/weak lateral bracing can lead to leading edge
failure. This causes the Kolb to stop flying immediately.
Lower tail post bracing makes it last longer.
I don't know a whole lot about the Twinstar. The one Kolb model I never flew.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 4:33 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Twinstar (original version) info request
<ceengland7@gmail.com> <ceengland7@gmail.com>
OK, now that I've got that short nose Kolb bit out of my system....
I'm now the proud owner of an N-numbered early Kolb Twinstar
(restoration project). IIRC, its serial number is in the low 20's
range.
A little rusty, but we've peeled the fabric on one wing & the aluminum
seems to be in good shape, with very little corrosion, considering
that it spent its entire past life in central FL.
This one's got a Rotax 503 (converted from single to dual carbs, and
to free air cooling) that seems to be in great shape. The previous
owner is a close friend who was the builder. I trust what he tells
me, and he says that it always cooled fine running it free-air with
some added ducting.
I'll be replacing hardware, 'soft' parts, etc, but don't intend on
doing a showplane restoration; just a safe, nice flying 'after supper'
flyer.
I've got the plans for the plane, but I'm hoping that you experienced
Kolbers can share any suggested mods to these early models, that will
make them safer/more durable/etc. Is there a published list of any/all
service bulletins or recommended updates? For instance, I've seen the
advice to add braces to the tailspring stinger. And I know that the
later Twinstars have mass balances on at least some of the control
surfaces; is it recommended to add them to the early models? This one
does not have any mass balances anywhere.
Who's recovered one? Any issues when you drilled out the rivets to
remove the ailerons, etc for recovering?
Any advice will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Charlie
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Subject: | Re: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) |
I'm not John, but if you scroll down to page 21 in the MKIII Yellow Book, you will
see what Kolb though to be a very useful reinforcement.
http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468375#468375
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Subject: | Re: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original |
version)
Good Evening
I built 2 new wings for my MK111. I did not run the reinforcing tape betwee
n the=C2- ribs forward of the spar. Was I suppose to?. I did run the tape
between each rib about half way back of the spar.ThanksBob
On Thursday, April 13, 2017 10:23 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charte
r.net> wrote:
I'm not John, but if you scroll down to page 21 in the MKIII Yellow Book, y
ou will see what Kolb though to be a very useful reinforcement.
http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468375#468375
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 6
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I built 2 new wings for my MK111. I did not run reinforcing tape between each rib
forward of the spar. Was I suppose to? I did run the tape between each rib
about half way back from the spar.
Thanks
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468378#468378
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