---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/13/17: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:07 AM - Re: Re: covering supplier? (mojavjoe@comcast.net) 2. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: covering supplier? (Charlie England) 3. 09:05 AM - Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) info request (Charlie England) 4. 07:18 PM - Re: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) (Richard Pike) 5. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) (Bob Underwood) 6. 07:52 PM - bracing (pipercolt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:15 AM PST US From: mojavjoe@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: covering supplier? Charlie My two cents again; I used white Gripper but any good acrylic primmer will do and you can tint it toward your top coat. As I'm painting scenes on my wings and fuselage I can't do the sanding described by Wiener Dog so I'm spraying on a high gloss clear coat. The product I've settled on is Rustolem acrylic gloss clear. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 11:03:16 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: covering supplier? Thanks, Peter. For you guys who've used latex, did you stick with the Glidden Gripper grey primer as shown on the Wienerdog Aero site, or something else? I can get the white primer (and other brands) locally, but will have to order the grey. No polishing for me; I'll be happy if the paint stays on & prevents UV damage. Thanks, Charlie On 4/12/2017 7:57 AM, phcpilot wrote: > > Here are my experiences with Latex which include a re-paint over an auto finish, re-cover of a fuselage and painting a stits type covering. > > The re-paint was on a fuselage which had some cracking and chipping of an older auto finish from firewall back past trailing edge of a Rans S7. I sanded and filled the crack/chip areas with poly filla (Yup) then had the hardware store do a colour match of some exterior latex paint. Actually these days it is called water based acrylic. Years ago you couldn't sand latex due to its rubbery nature. Not so these days. > The result looked great with sort of a low gloss dope type finish. I have kept in touch with the owner of the plane because even I was skeptical of how long it would last. It has been many years now and he is still happy. > > In addition to acrylic paints, you should also keep clear water base urethane in mind. I recovered my homebuilt 170 fuselage (steel tube/fabric) and used clear urethane as first fill coat on the fabric and then put tapes on with it. It was great to work with. Also used the green hardware store water based contact cement for glue. > > Then sprayed on gloss acylic latex for finish coats. A buddy who is a long time dope and fabric guy was amazed at how great the tape seams and fill looked. At that time the glossiest acrylic was about as dull as a dope finish but with a lot fewer coats. > > Next I've done a complete S7 with acrylic using a cheap primer fill coat followed by gloss colour coats. High gloss is not an attribute of acrylic unless you want to do all that buffing but with a product from Home Hardware called Rust coat the finish is the best I've seen. Yes if you need a mirror finish be prepared to work but for a great looking dope or better than polytone, little sanding is required. > > For years I followed the suggestion from one site to use an airless sprayer. This was mistake, they put out way too much paint even with the fine nozzles. An inexpensive $50 HVLP gun is just fine and with way less likelihood of runs. > Peter > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:45 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: covering supplier? Thanks Joe; that's good news. I'll just use a good quality primer & quit worrying about it. Will a gallon take care of both wings (the multiple coats required)? On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 7:06 AM, wrote: > Charlie > > My two cents again; I used white Gripper but any good acrylic primmer > will do and you can tint it toward your top coat. As I'm painting scenes > on my wings and fuselage I can't do the sanding described by Wiener Dog so > I'm spraying on a high gloss clear coat. The product I've settled on is > Rustolem acrylic gloss clear. > > Joe > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Charlie England" > *To: *"kolb-list" > *Sent: *Wednesday, April 12, 2017 11:03:16 AM > *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: covering supplier? > > > Thanks, Peter. > > For you guys who've used latex, did you stick with the Glidden Gripper > grey primer as shown on the Wienerdog Aero site, or something else? I > can get the white primer (and other brands) locally, but will have to > order the grey. > > No polishing for me; I'll be happy if the paint stays on & prevents UV > damage. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > On 4/12/2017 7:57 AM, phcpilot wrote: > > > > Here are my experiences with Latex which include a re-paint over an auto > finish, re-cover of a fuselage and painting a stits type covering. > > > > The re-paint was on a fuselage which had some cracking and chipping of > an older auto finish from firewall back past trailing edge of a Rans S7. I > sanded and filled the crack/chip areas with poly filla (Yup) then had the > hardware store do a colour match of some exterior latex paint. Actually > these days it is called water based acrylic. Years ago you couldn't sand > latex due to its rubbery nature. Not so these days. > > The result looked great with sort of a low gloss dope type finish. I > have kept in touch with the owner of the plane because even I was skeptical > of how long it would last. It has been many years now and he is still happy. > > > > In addition to acrylic paints, you should also keep clear water base > urethane in mind. I recovered my homebuilt 170 fuselage (steel tube/fabric) > and used clear urethane as first fill coat on the fabric and then put tapes > on with it. It was great to work with. Also used the green hardware store > water based contact cement for glue. > > > > Then sprayed on gloss acylic latex for finish coats. A buddy who is a > long time dope and fabric guy was amazed at how great the tape seams and > fill looked. At that time the glossiest acrylic was about as dull as a dope > finish but with a lot fewer coats. > > > > Next I've done a complete S7 with acrylic using a cheap primer fill coat > followed by gloss colour coats. High gloss is not an attribute of acrylic > unless you want to do all that buffing but with a product from Home > Hardware called Rust coat the finish is the best I've seen. Yes if you need > a mirror finish be prepared to work but for a great looking dope or better > than polytone, little sanding is required. > > > > For years I followed the suggestion from one site to use an airless > sprayer. This was mistake, they put out way too much paint even with the > fine nozzles. An inexpensive $50 HVLP gun is just fine and with way less > likelihood of runs. > > Peter > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus softwarebsp; > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > ==== > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:35 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Kolb-List: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) info request John, You mentioned leading edge bracing. This is all I see in the Twinstar I'm restoring. There's nothing along the rest of the leading edge that triangulates/ braces the leading edge. Would you consider this adequate? It's easy to add now, with the cover coming off. Thanks, Charlie Thanks, John. I wasn't sure about how rugged the tubes would be when driving out mandrels, etc. I use similar tricks on the heavier experimentals I've owned. I've got a spring loaded center punch that I ground to a flat nosed, straight shaft, & use it to punch out driven rivets after drilling the heads. I also use small, flush cutting 'dykes' (diagonal wire cutters) to grab pop rivet heads On 4/9/2017 5:58 PM, John Hauck wrote: Charlie E/Kolbers: I have recovered a bunch of them. All that I tore up and a few I didn't. Drilling rivets can be accomplished once you have the mandrels removed. It takes a 1/16" punch, or you can use a pulled mandrel, grind the end flat, hold with vise grips, and knock out with a hammer. The rivet needs to be held to prevent spinning. I grind a V in the end of a hack saw blade with sharp beveled edges. Use that to push up under the rivet to lock it in place while drilling. 4130 airframes should be tube sealed when fabricated. 99% of Kolbs probably have never been tube sealed. Their builders probably never heard of tube sealing. 4130 rusts from inside out if not sealed. That would worry me with an old fuselage, especially a Twinstar. I can't remember exactly what the fuselage looks like other that the root tube that seats and stuff are attached to. This I would make sure is rust free on the inside. I helped Brother Jim rebuild Adriel Heisey's Twinstar, Navajo Nation pilot that shot aerial photos published in Nat Geo and other pubs, that he crashed in a wind storm. It was frightening when we started cutting tubing. Most were rusted well beyond serviceability. Here are photos of his Twinstar: https://uanews.arizona.edu/story/aerial-photos-of-archaeological-sites-on-exhibit-at-state-museum I don't recall anyone flying a free air cooled Rotax on a Kolb successfully. Yours may be an exception. Don't know of any published updates for the Twinstar. It was not a popular model and kits only produced a couple years. Strong lateral bracing of the leading edge of the wing is extremely important to me. Poor/weak lateral bracing can lead to leading edge failure. This causes the Kolb to stop flying immediately. Lower tail post bracing makes it last longer. I don't know a whole lot about the Twinstar. The one Kolb model I never flew. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 4:33 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Twinstar (original version) info request OK, now that I've got that short nose Kolb bit out of my system.... I'm now the proud owner of an N-numbered early Kolb Twinstar (restoration project). IIRC, its serial number is in the low 20's range. A little rusty, but we've peeled the fabric on one wing & the aluminum seems to be in good shape, with very little corrosion, considering that it spent its entire past life in central FL. This one's got a Rotax 503 (converted from single to dual carbs, and to free air cooling) that seems to be in great shape. The previous owner is a close friend who was the builder. I trust what he tells me, and he says that it always cooled fine running it free-air with some added ducting. I'll be replacing hardware, 'soft' parts, etc, but don't intend on doing a showplane restoration; just a safe, nice flying 'after supper' flyer. I've got the plans for the plane, but I'm hoping that you experienced Kolbers can share any suggested mods to these early models, that will make them safer/more durable/etc. Is there a published list of any/all service bulletins or recommended updates? For instance, I've seen the advice to add braces to the tailspring stinger. And I know that the later Twinstars have mass balances on at least some of the control surfaces; is it recommended to add them to the early models? This one does not have any mass balances anywhere. Who's recovered one? Any issues when you drilled out the rivets to remove the ailerons, etc for recovering? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:02 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) From: "Richard Pike" I'm not John, but if you scroll down to page 21 in the MKIII Yellow Book, you will see what Kolb though to be a very useful reinforcement. http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468375#468375 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:31 PM PST US From: Bob Underwood Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Leading edge bracing; was: Kolb Twinstar (original version) Good Evening I built 2 new wings for my MK111. I did not run the reinforcing tape betwee n the=C2- ribs forward of the spar. Was I suppose to?. I did run the tape between each rib about half way back of the spar.ThanksBob On Thursday, April 13, 2017 10:23 PM, Richard Pike wrote: I'm not John, but if you scroll down to page 21 in the MKIII Yellow Book, y ou will see what Kolb though to be a very useful reinforcement. http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468375#468375 S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:32 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: bracing From: "pipercolt" I built 2 new wings for my MK111. I did not run reinforcing tape between each rib forward of the spar. Was I suppose to? I did run the tape between each rib about half way back from the spar. Thanks Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468378#468378 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.