Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:44 AM - The Kolb Quit strikes again! (Bill Berle)
2. 05:28 AM - Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! (Richard Pike)
3. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! (Larry Cottrell)
4. 07:42 AM - Re: trailering a fire fly (phcpilot)
5. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! (Rick Neilsen)
6. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! (Hoppy)
7. 10:29 AM - Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! (George Helton)
8. 12:33 PM - Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! (james.vanlaak@gmail.com)
9. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump (Richard Girard)
10. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump (George Helton)
11. 06:24 PM - Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! (woody)
12. 08:15 PM - Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! (Bill Berle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
Well Kolbers I am completely humbled and embarrassed.
Because I got distracted by two or three (legitimately serious) things unrelated
to the actual landing, I fell victim to the Kolb Quit and damn near wrecked
Jimmy's new Mark 3 today.
I flew out to Camarillo in the 172 this morning early, and after some radio equipment
issues we were ready to go. Jimmy took off and we headed out away from
the ultralight strip. Immediately it was obvious to both of us that there was
a somewhat serious control problem. The control force on the ailerons was very
heavy, and it took two hands to roll the aircraft to the right. One hand, but
heavy, to make a left roll/turn.
I was given control of the aircraft, and experienced this first hand. The roll
rate to the right was atrocious and took both hands to accomplish. Pitch control
was heavier than I expected but easily controllable.Yaw control was well within
the "Reasonable" range.
Jimmy and I made two or three low passes over the ultralight strip, and I was given
the task of landing the airplane. The landing pattern at Camarillo UL strip
was very tricky and unsafe as far as I am concerned. In order to not fly over
a corporate aircraft facility and their outdoor fuel tanks, the base leg of
the pattern is flown extremely close in. Base leg is essentially over the approach
end of the strip. Left traffic only, at or below 300 AGL.
The first landing was safe, but bouncy. The Kolb Quit dropped us in from about
2 or 3 feet, to my complete surprise. We taxied back to his hangar andtried to
fix the aileron problem.
The second takeoff was made, and there was only a small improvement in controlling
the aircraft. It still required two hands to roll the aircraft to the right,
and this was needed turning a very close-in base leg, with a hard left turn
from base to final. Rolling out of this turn required a two handed right aileron
input with a very very slow and not positive result. At 50 feet AGL between
a large hangar and a tree.
We made a couple of low passes,and Jimmy reminded me I was far too high and fast,
so we went around. On the last pass, he thought I was way too slow. I used
the speeds and and techniques I would use in a Taylorcraft, but I did not remember
the Kolb Quit. Pulling the throttle back to idle on short final, the airplane
landed very hard and seriously damaged the right main gear leg. The airplane
got out of hand and headed across the runway for a chain link fence. I applied
full power to get it away from the ground, but the high thrust line resulted
in us screaming across the runway at below fence height. Full back stick was
not getting us any higher than below fence height. We finall climbed over the
fence with very little room to spare.
Next time around one of the guys was standing in the middle of the runway waving
his arms. What could this be? finally looked out over to the right side of
the aircraft,a nd saw the right main wheel up at eye level. I knew instantly that
this was going to result in a "crash landing".
The next time around, I managed to keep it going faster, and put it on the remaining
wheel with no Kolb Quit, but it of course settled down on tht one wheel.....
and the other wingtip, and proceeded to groundloop and bend one of the wing
tips. Out of guilt and furious anger, I volunteered to fix the 2 outboard ribs
and fabric.
So my question of the Kolb List is... now that I have experienced the wrath of
the Kolb Quit, WHAT THE HELL CAUSES IT ???
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/27/17, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Pump
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Saturday, May 27, 2017, 12:19 PM
<west1m@hotmail.com>
Does anyone pump in series (or through)
their Mikuni fuel pump?
I ask as I had a wire break off my
regulator and eventually lost all power to gauges, EIS and
GPS before getting back to home field. It would have been a
much shorter flight with only the Facet pump.
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469643#469643
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
Obviously the airplane is seriously out of rig, but first we need more details:
What kind of MKIII is it? Classic? Extra?
Does it have flaps like the MKIII or like the Extra? At what angle were they deployed?
How many hours on the airplane and has this ever happened before?
How are the trim tabs set?
How many hours/approaches do you have in a MKIII?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469665#469665
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
Disclaimer follows. Having bent a few gear legs myself, the following
should not be offensive to anyone. It certainly is not intended to be.
Kolb quit, was originally I believe to have been first voiced as a
tongue in cheek admission of a regularly occurring miscalculation on
the "pilots" part. If you will notice the first and most often
admonition to new pilots to the Kolb world that the plane loses speed
very rapidly, compared to most of the planes that people regularly
fly. If you flare more than a couple of feet off the ground, you will
regularly find that you are behind the plane to an unrecoverable
degree.
What you experienced is pilot muscle memory for a different type of
aircraft. I believe that one of the axioms of life is that experience
comes from making mistakes. It still rankles however. Welcome to the
club.
Larry
On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 6:28 AM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Obviously the airplane is seriously out of rig, but first we need more details:
What kind of MKIII is it? Classic? Extra?
> Does it have flaps like the MKIII or like the Extra? At what angle were they
deployed?
> How many hours on the airplane and has this ever happened before?
> How are the trim tabs set?
> How many hours/approaches do you have in a MKIII?
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469665#469665
>
>
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: trailering a fire fly |
Would anyone have handy, the measurements for the foam covered plastic pipe tube
assembly people use to tie the stabs and fin together on a MKIII. I am not near
the plane right now.
Many thanks
Peter
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469668#469668
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
Bill
Larry is 100% right. It isn't Kolb quit it is pilot quit.
This happens much more to transitioning GA pilots. I was one and I had the
bent gear legs to prove it. Kolbs fly very well but they don't land like
the bigger heavier GA airplanes.
I will say this one more time and I'm sure it will be ignored again but
hear goes. Maintain some power on final. Enough power will make your Kolb
fly like your GA airplane. Cut the power after you touch down. You need to
do this at a GA airport where you have plenty of runway. Each landing after
reduce the power a bit I get reminded every time a take GA pilot for a
ride. I have had GA pilots clean their shorts, others complain I should
have warned them more, I even had one try to grab the stick. John H has the
right set up where he can remove the passenger side stick. Fly down within
inches of the ground then flair. These a unique wonderful STOL airplanes
that will bite if you stall them.
I once had my Kolb MKIIIC ailerons feel real heavy doing preflight control
check. Turned out I had recovered one flap without removing the hinges and
one very rainy night at Airventure the flap filled with water. I added some
forgotten weep holes and ten minutes later everything was better.
As usual worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Disclaimer follows. Having bent a few gear legs myself, the following
> should not be offensive to anyone. It certainly is not intended to be.
>
> Kolb quit, was originally I believe to have been first voiced as a
> tongue in cheek admission of a regularly occurring miscalculation on
> the "pilots" part. If you will notice the first and most often
> admonition to new pilots to the Kolb world that the plane loses speed
> very rapidly, compared to most of the planes that people regularly
> fly. If you flare more than a couple of feet off the ground, you will
> regularly find that you are behind the plane to an unrecoverable
> degree.
>
> What you experienced is pilot muscle memory for a different type of
> aircraft. I believe that one of the axioms of life is that experience
> comes from making mistakes. It still rankles however. Welcome to the
> club.
> Larry
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 6:28 AM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
> wrote:
> thegreybaron@charter.net>
> >
> > Obviously the airplane is seriously out of rig, but first we need more
> details: What kind of MKIII is it? Classic? Extra?
> > Does it have flaps like the MKIII or like the Extra? At what angle were
> they deployed?
> > How many hours on the airplane and has this ever happened before?
> > How are the trim tabs set?
> > How many hours/approaches do you have in a MKIII?
> >
> > --------
> > Richard Pike
> > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> > Kingsport, TN 3TN0
> >
> > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469665#469665
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
> others.
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
I think the discussion could be about the airfoil and the sharp stall .
Naturally flying the bird to the ground solves any problems...then
there are the unplanned landings...
My take on the airfoil is that it is a high lift one...with max
thickness well forward of most planes wings of the type..Max thickness
is well forward of the spar actually... and I think this causes the
narrow stall bucket...Separation occurs across a narrow area of the wing...
I think most high lift airfoils have leading edge slats..
Guessing that those little things that folks stick on the wings mitigate
the sharp stall? Herb
On 05/28/2017 10:53 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote:
> Bill
>
> Larry is 100% right. It isn't Kolb quit it is pilot quit.
>
> This happens much more to transitioning GA pilots. I was one and I had
> the bent gear legs to prove it. Kolbs fly very well but they don't
> land like the bigger heavier GA airplanes.
>
> I will say this one more time and I'm sure it will be ignored again
> but hear goes. Maintain some power on final. Enough power will make
> your Kolb fly like your GA airplane. Cut the power after you touch
> down. You need to do this at a GA airport where you have plenty of
> runway. Each landing after reduce the power a bit I get reminded every
> time a take GA pilot for a ride. I have had GA pilots clean their
> shorts, others complain I should have warned them more, I even had one
> try to grab the stick. John H has the right set up where he can remove
> the passenger side stick. Fly down within inches of the ground then
> flair. These a unique wonderful STOL airplanes that will bite if you
> stall them.
>
> I once had my Kolb MKIIIC ailerons feel real heavy doing preflight
> control check. Turned out I had recovered one flap without removing
> the hinges and one very rainy night at Airventure the flap filled with
> water. I added some forgotten weep holes and ten minutes later
> everything was better.
>
> As usual worth what you paid for it.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Larry Cottrell
> <lcottrell1020@gmail.com <mailto:lcottrell1020@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <lcottrell1020@gmail.com <mailto:lcottrell1020@gmail.com>>
>
> Disclaimer follows. Having bent a few gear legs myself, the following
> should not be offensive to anyone. It certainly is not intended to be.
>
> Kolb quit, was originally I believe to have been first voiced as a
> tongue in cheek admission of a regularly occurring miscalculation on
> the "pilots" part. If you will notice the first and most often
> admonition to new pilots to the Kolb world that the plane loses speed
> very rapidly, compared to most of the planes that people regularly
> fly. If you flare more than a couple of feet off the ground, you will
> regularly find that you are behind the plane to an unrecoverable
> degree.
>
> What you experienced is pilot muscle memory for a different type of
> aircraft. I believe that one of the axioms of life is that experience
> comes from making mistakes. It still rankles however. Welcome to the
> club.
> Larry
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 6:28 AM, Richard Pike
> <thegreybaron@charter.net <mailto:thegreybaron@charter.net>> wrote:
> <thegreybaron@charter.net <mailto:thegreybaron@charter.net>>
> >
> > Obviously the airplane is seriously out of rig, but first we
> need more details: What kind of MKIII is it? Classic? Extra?
> > Does it have flaps like the MKIII or like the Extra? At what
> angle were they deployed?
> > How many hours on the airplane and has this ever happened before?
> > How are the trim tabs set?
> > How many hours/approaches do you have in a MKIII?
> >
> > --------
> > Richard Pike
> > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> > Kingsport, TN 3TN0
> >
> > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469665#469665
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469665#469665>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are
> intolerant of others.
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.
> ============================
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
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> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
Homer Kolb had saying that I just love. He use to put in the plans instruction
manual.
On page 57 of my 1986 Firestar manual under " SOME HELPFUL TIPS AND REMINDERS "
"MORE IMPORTANT THEN ALL ELSE-KEEP UP YOUR AIRSPEED."
But here are the real pearls of Homer's wisdom that I have on my wall.
"KEEP THINE AIRSPEED LEST THE GROUND COME UP AND SMITE THEE."
There is no such thing as "Kolb Quit" it's called a STALL. If you stall a Kolb
2 or 3 feet in the air gravity takes over and you get to experience what a lot
of us have, bent landing gear. Like someone else said, "welcome to the club."
Sorry to here about your rough landing. The important thing is you're okay. George
H.
Have a great day!
> On May 28, 2017, at 4:44 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Well Kolbers I am completely humbled and embarrassed.
>
> Because I got distracted by two or three (legitimately serious) things unrelated
to the actual landing, I fell victim to the Kolb Quit and damn near wrecked
Jimmy's new Mark 3 today.
>
> I flew out to Camarillo in the 172 this morning early, and after some radio equipment
issues we were ready to go. Jimmy took off and we headed out away from
the ultralight strip. Immediately it was obvious to both of us that there was
a somewhat serious control problem. The control force on the ailerons was very
heavy, and it took two hands to roll the aircraft to the right. One hand, but
heavy, to make a left roll/turn.
>
> I was given control of the aircraft, and experienced this first hand. The roll
rate to the right was atrocious and took both hands to accomplish. Pitch control
was heavier than I expected but easily controllable.Yaw control was well
within the "Reasonable" range.
>
> Jimmy and I made two or three low passes over the ultralight strip, and I was
given the task of landing the airplane. The landing pattern at Camarillo UL strip
was very tricky and unsafe as far as I am concerned. In order to not fly
over a corporate aircraft facility and their outdoor fuel tanks, the base leg
of the pattern is flown extremely close in. Base leg is essentially over the
approach end of the strip. Left traffic only, at or below 300 AGL.
>
> The first landing was safe, but bouncy. The Kolb Quit dropped us in from about
2 or 3 feet, to my complete surprise. We taxied back to his hangar andtried
to fix the aileron problem.
>
> The second takeoff was made, and there was only a small improvement in controlling
the aircraft. It still required two hands to roll the aircraft to the right,
and this was needed turning a very close-in base leg, with a hard left turn
from base to final. Rolling out of this turn required a two handed right aileron
input with a very very slow and not positive result. At 50 feet AGL between
a large hangar and a tree.
>
> We made a couple of low passes,and Jimmy reminded me I was far too high and fast,
so we went around. On the last pass, he thought I was way too slow. I used
the speeds and and techniques I would use in a Taylorcraft, but I did not remember
the Kolb Quit. Pulling the throttle back to idle on short final, the airplane
landed very hard and seriously damaged the right main gear leg. The airplane
got out of hand and headed across the runway for a chain link fence. I applied
full power to get it away from the ground, but the high thrust line resulted
in us screaming across the runway at below fence height. Full back stick
was not getting us any higher than below fence height. We finall climbed over
the fence with very little room to spare.
>
> Next time around one of the guys was standing in the middle of the runway waving
his arms. What could this be? finally looked out over to the right side of
the aircraft,a nd saw the right main wheel up at eye level. I knew instantly
that this was going to result in a "crash landing".
>
> The next time around, I managed to keep it going faster, and put it on the remaining
wheel with no Kolb Quit, but it of course settled down on tht one wheel.....
and the other wingtip, and proceeded to groundloop and bend one of the
wing tips. Out of guilt and furious anger, I volunteered to fix the 2 outboard
ribs and fabric.
>
> So my question of the Kolb List is... now that I have experienced the wrath of
the Kolb Quit, WHAT THE HELL CAUSES IT ???
>
>
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 5/27/17, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Pump
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, May 27, 2017, 12:19 PM
>
> <west1m@hotmail.com>
>
> Does anyone pump in series (or through)
> their Mikuni fuel pump?
> I ask as I had a wire break off my
> regulator and eventually lost all power to gauges, EIS and
> GPS before getting back to home field. It would have been a
> much shorter flight with only the Facet pump.
>
> --------
> West1m
> Hastings, MN
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469643#469643
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Kolb-List Email Forum -
> Navigator to browse
> List Un/Subscription,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> via the Web Forums!
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> Email List Wiki!
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> support!
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
I have been a member of this list for many years although I have only
contributed a few posts. Most of the time the group hits all of the
relevant points but there is one point here that I have not seen mentioned
and which I feel is important because I have had to compensate for it in
some of the many types I have flown over the years.
When we fly conventional airplanes we have a big nose and instrument panel
in front of us that offers an unmistakable reminder of where the nose is.
Many GA airplanes have the nose so high even in a gliding stall that you
would have to be asleep to miss the signal. But Kolbs do not have that big
nose and in fact the great visibility ahead is one of the things we all
love about the planes. But the lack of that big nose means that it is easy
for the nose attitude to be higher than we thought and the airspeed/energy
lower. So when you feel like you have a normal glide you may be on the
edge of a pre-stall mush and when you raise the nose just a big more you
suddenly find the bottom dropping out. On the other hand, the fact that
they have less kinetic energy and therefore slow down more quickly means
there is not as big a penalty for being a little fast on approach as long
as you do not force it onto the ground. I used to deadstick my Firestar 1
from time to time and probably used 50 on final just to be absolutely sure
I had energy for a smooth flair, but even so I doubt I ever used more than
500 feet of runway total.
If you are careful to control your energy with the proper airspeed you will
find the Kolbs are all very well mannered machines.
Jim
On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 1:28 PM, George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Homer Kolb had saying that I just love. He use to put in the plans
> instruction manual.
> On page 57 of my 1986 Firestar manual under " SOME HELPFUL TIPS AND
> REMINDERS "
> "MORE IMPORTANT THEN ALL ELSE-KEEP UP YOUR AIRSPEED."
> But here are the real pearls of Homer's wisdom that I have on my wall.
> "KEEP THINE AIRSPEED LEST THE GROUND COME UP AND SMITE THEE."
> There is no such thing as "Kolb Quit" it's called a STALL. If you stall a
> Kolb 2 or 3 feet in the air gravity takes over and you get to experience
> what a lot of us have, bent landing gear. Like someone else said, "welcome
> to the club."
> Sorry to here about your rough landing. The important thing is you're
> okay. George H.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> > On May 28, 2017, at 4:44 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well Kolbers I am completely humbled and embarrassed.
> >
> > Because I got distracted by two or three (legitimately serious) things
> unrelated to the actual landing, I fell victim to the Kolb Quit and damn
> near wrecked Jimmy's new Mark 3 today.
> >
> > I flew out to Camarillo in the 172 this morning early, and after some
> radio equipment issues we were ready to go. Jimmy took off and we headed
> out away from the ultralight strip. Immediately it was obvious to both of
> us that there was a somewhat serious control problem. The control force on
> the ailerons was very heavy, and it took two hands to roll the aircraft to
> the right. One hand, but heavy, to make a left roll/turn.
> >
> > I was given control of the aircraft, and experienced this first hand.
> The roll rate to the right was atrocious and took both hands to accomplish.
> Pitch control was heavier than I expected but easily controllable.Yaw
> control was well within the "Reasonable" range.
> >
> > Jimmy and I made two or three low passes over the ultralight strip, and
> I was given the task of landing the airplane. The landing pattern at
> Camarillo UL strip was very tricky and unsafe as far as I am concerned. In
> order to not fly over a corporate aircraft facility and their outdoor fuel
> tanks, the base leg of the pattern is flown extremely close in. Base leg is
> essentially over the approach end of the strip. Left traffic only, at or
> below 300 AGL.
> >
> > The first landing was safe, but bouncy. The Kolb Quit dropped us in from
> about 2 or 3 feet, to my complete surprise. We taxied back to his hangar
> andtried to fix the aileron problem.
> >
> > The second takeoff was made, and there was only a small improvement in
> controlling the aircraft. It still required two hands to roll the aircraft
> to the right, and this was needed turning a very close-in base leg, with a
> hard left turn from base to final. Rolling out of this turn required a two
> handed right aileron input with a very very slow and not positive result.
> At 50 feet AGL between a large hangar and a tree.
> >
> > We made a couple of low passes,and Jimmy reminded me I was far too high
> and fast, so we went around. On the last pass, he thought I was way too
> slow. I used the speeds and and techniques I would use in a Taylorcraft,
> but I did not remember the Kolb Quit. Pulling the throttle back to idle on
> short final, the airplane landed very hard and seriously damaged the right
> main gear leg. The airplane got out of hand and headed across the runway
> for a chain link fence. I applied full power to get it away from the
> ground, but the high thrust line resulted in us screaming across the runway
> at below fence height. Full back stick was not getting us any higher than
> below fence height. We finall climbed over the fence with very little room
> to spare.
> >
> > Next time around one of the guys was standing in the middle of the
> runway waving his arms. What could this be? finally looked out over to the
> right side of the aircraft,a nd saw the right main wheel up at eye level. I
> knew instantly that this was going to result in a "crash landing".
> >
> > The next time around, I managed to keep it going faster, and put it on
> the remaining wheel with no Kolb Quit, but it of course settled down on tht
> one wheel..... and the other wingtip, and proceeded to groundloop and bend
> one of the wing tips. Out of guilt and furious anger, I volunteered to fix
> the 2 outboard ribs and fabric.
> >
> > So my question of the Kolb List is... now that I have experienced the
> wrath of the Kolb Quit, WHAT THE HELL CAUSES IT ???
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Berle
> > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Sat, 5/27/17, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Pump
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Saturday, May 27, 2017, 12:19 PM
> >
> > <west1m@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Does anyone pump in series (or through)
> > their Mikuni fuel pump?
> > I ask as I had a wire break off my
> > regulator and eventually lost all power to gauges, EIS and
> > GPS before getting back to home field. It would have been a
> > much shorter flight with only the Facet pump.
> >
> > --------
> > West1m
> > Hastings, MN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469643#469643
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Kolb-List Email Forum -
> > Navigator to browse
> > List Un/Subscription,
> > 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > via the Web Forums!
> > - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> > Email List Wiki!
> > - List Contribution Web Site -
> > support!
> >
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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George, Congrats on the return to flight. Always good to hear that another
Kolb is back in the air.
I ran a Facet on my Mk III above the tanks, probably 20 inches of lift and
never a problem. Just replumbed the fuel system on my HKS powered trike. A
Facet in series with a Mikuni DF52. Flight tested it with a five minute
climb at full power with the Facet off. The little HKS never missed a beat.
Total lift for the Mikuni about 26 inches.
Safe flying,
Rick
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 8:56 PM, George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for asking the same question that I had about still using the puls
e
> pump along with the facet electric pump. I like redundancy when it comes
to
> aircraft fuel systems. And thanks all the good information that was
> generated.
> I ordered a new rectifier/ regulator, 24V 22000uf capacitor and a 40104
> fuel pump last week and am waiting for everything to come. I'm going to r
un
> some lift tests before mounting the new pump simply because I would like
to
> mount the facet pump above my fuel tank if it lifts sufficiently? Time wi
ll
> tell?
> Oh yeah guys I flew my restored Firestar (original) yesterday! It was its
> first flight in 28 years and it was sweet.
>
>
> George H.
> Firestar #FS100
> Mesick, Michigan
> gdhelton@gmail.com
>
> Have a great day!
>
> > On May 27, 2017, at 3:19 PM, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Does anyone pump in series (or through) their Mikuni fuel pump?
> > I ask as I had a wire break off my regulator and eventually lost all
> power to gauges, EIS and GPS before getting back to home field. It would
> have been a much shorter flight with only the Facet pump.
> >
> > --------
> > West1m
> > Hastings, MN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469643#469643
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ========================
===========
> ========================
===========
> ========================
===========
> ========================
===========
> ========================
===========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
Message 10
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Thanks, Rick! I was amazed on how well the little bird flew. It's good to ba
ck in a Kolb. Hopefully the weather up here in northern Michigan will finall
y decide to stop raining and give us fair winds and blue skies.
George H.
Firestar, #FS100
14GDH
Mesick, Mi.
gdhelton@gmail.com
Have a great day!
> On May 28, 2017, at 8:36 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> George, Congrats on the return to flight. Always good to hear that another
Kolb is back in the air.
> I ran a Facet on my Mk III above the tanks, probably 20 inches of lift and
never a problem. Just replumbed the fuel system on my HKS powered trike. A
Facet in series with a Mikuni DF52. Flight tested it with a five minute clim
b at full power with the Facet off. The little HKS never missed a beat. Tota
l lift for the Mikuni about 26 inches.
> Safe flying,
> Rick
>
>> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 8:56 PM, George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> wrote
:
>> Thanks for asking the same question that I had about still using the puls
e pump along with the facet electric pump. I like redundancy when it comes t
o aircraft fuel systems. And thanks all the good information that was genera
ted.
>> I ordered a new rectifier/ regulator, 24V 22000uf capacitor and a 40104 f
uel pump last week and am waiting for everything to come. I'm going to run s
ome lift tests before mounting the new pump simply because I would like to m
ount the facet pump above my fuel tank if it lifts sufficiently? Time will t
ell?
>> Oh yeah guys I flew my restored Firestar (original) yesterday! It was its
first flight in 28 years and it was sweet.
>>
>>
>> George H.
>> Firestar #FS100
>> Mesick, Michigan
>> gdhelton@gmail.com
>>
>> Have a great day!
>>
>> > On May 27, 2017, at 3:19 PM, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Does anyone pump in series (or through) their Mikuni fuel pump?
>> > I ask as I had a wire break off my regulator and eventually lost all po
wer to gauges, EIS and GPS before getting back to home field. It would have b
een a much shorter flight with only the Facet pump.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > West1m
>> > Hastings, MN
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469643#469643
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ==========
>> ==========
>> ==========
>> ==========
>> ==========
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
Those "little sticky things" that you put on your wings and tail go a long ways
towards keeping the gear-legs straight [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469677#469677
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb Quit strikes again! |
Thank you all for your input and advice. There was a bit more to the story than
I put in my late-night original post. But what is done is done.
I offered to repair the damaged wing and fabric of the aircraft and am in the process
of doing so. The aircraft owner has ordered new landing gear legs, and
has good resources to repair the steel landing gear receptacle tube in the fuselage.
I believe
Although there were many different contributing factors, and there is blame enough
to go around between everyone, the one thing that really should have not been
a part of this is that the required landing pattern to use the Camarillo UL
strip created a situaiton where a lot of safer, or more cautious choices could
have been made but weren't.
The cause of the aircraft not having solid 3 axis control authority is still unknown.
To answer a Kolb List question posted, this is a Mark 3 Classic, with flaps. The
flaps were not used AT ANY TIME during these flights.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
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