Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:48 AM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (B Young)
2. 08:18 AM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Ralph B)
3. 08:18 AM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Stuart Harner)
4. 10:04 AM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (B Young)
5. 12:55 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Ralph B)
6. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Bill Berle)
7. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (John Hauck)
8. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Bill Berle)
9. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (John Hauck)
10. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Bill Berle)
11. 04:22 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Bill Berle)
12. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Rick Neilsen)
13. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Charlie England)
14. 07:40 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Rick Neilsen)
15. 07:46 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Richard Pike)
16. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (John Hauck)
17. 08:05 PM - Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic (Ralph B)
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
Kolbers,,,,,, I remember a few years back that someone mentioned that they
trimmed a Kolb by adjusting the thrust line of the engine by raising or
lowering the front or back of the motor mounts. I haven't found the
correct search term to find it in the archives... Is there anyone that is
still on the list who can shed some light?
Boyd mkiii Utah
On Jun 12, 2017 2:34 PM, "jonealjr" <jonealjr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> PLEASE HELP IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THIS :)
>
> I have a mark III classic w 912 uls Acting odd during taxi needs lots of
> left rudder to keep on the runway with tail on and off the ground and while
> flying needs lots of right stick to keep plane level. If you let go of the
> controls during straight and level flight the plane wants to roll to the
> left has anyone had similar experiences and or has anybody had any luck
> with adjusting engine mounts changing the thrust angle to help with aileron
> trim etc
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470012#470012
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
Here are pictures of the Kolb U-joint adjust for roll control. Put washers in on
top or bottom for whichever the way you want to correct the roll.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000+ hours
28 years flying it
Kolbra 912ULS
N20386
500 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470049#470049
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_u_joint__847.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_adjust__128.jpg
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Subject: | Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
Jack Hart has a lot of info about this on a Firefly.
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly56.html
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark
III clasic
Kolbers,,,,,, I remember a few years back that someone mentioned that
they trimmed a Kolb by adjusting the thrust line of the engine by
raising or lowering the front or back of the motor mounts. I haven't
found the correct search term to find it in the archives... Is there
anyone that is still on the list who can shed some light?
Boyd mkiii Utah
On Jun 12, 2017 2:34 PM, "jonealjr" <jonealjr@gmail.com> wrote:
PLEASE HELP IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THIS :)
I have a mark III classic w 912 uls Acting odd during taxi needs lots of
left rudder to keep on the runway with tail on and off the ground and
while flying needs lots of right stick to keep plane level. If you let
go of the controls during straight and level flight the plane wants to
roll to the left has anyone had similar experiences and or has anybody
had any luck with adjusting engine mounts changing the thrust angle to
help with aileron trim etc
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470012#470012
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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Subject: | Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
Stewart, thanks, that link was exactly what I was looking for...
Boyd Young
Do not archive.
On Jun 13, 2017 9:21 AM, "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net> wrote:
> Jack Hart has a lot of info about this on a Firefly.
>
>
> http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly56.html
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-
> server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *B Young
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2017 8:49 AM
> *To:* Kolb List
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me
> Mark III clasic
>
>
> Kolbers,,,,,, I remember a few years back that someone mentioned that
> they trimmed a Kolb by adjusting the thrust line of the engine by raising
> or lowering the front or back of the motor mounts. I haven't found the
> correct search term to find it in the archives... Is there anyone that is
> still on the list who can shed some light?
>
> Boyd mkiii Utah
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2017 2:34 PM, "jonealjr" <jonealjr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> PLEASE HELP IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THIS :)
>
> I have a mark III classic w 912 uls Acting odd during taxi needs lots of
> left rudder to keep on the runway with tail on and off the ground and while
> flying needs lots of right stick to keep plane level. If you let go of the
> controls during straight and level flight the plane wants to roll to the
> left has anyone had similar experiences and or has anybody had any luck
> with adjusting engine mounts changing the thrust angle to help with aileron
> trim etc
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470012#470012
>
>
> ===================================
> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
Along with the U-joints, there is also the offset fin. This was installed by the
builder and I don't see how I would do without it. I've also included a picture
of the adjustable rudder trim tab. Between the U-joints, offset fin, and rudder
trim tab, the Kolbra can fly hands off in calm air. For pitch trim, the
builder installed a motorized bungee windup to move the stick forward or aft.
It is controlled with a toggle switch for nose up or down trim.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470058#470058
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_tab__102.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/offset_4__316.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/offset_1__128.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III |
clasic
One or more Kolbers has pointed to the flaps as a possible reason for the problems
we had. This may be the problem... does the following make sense to the experienced
Kolbers??? :
Let's say that the airplane was not built perfectly straight, and it wanted to
roll one way (like many homebuilts).
One owner installed the "adjustable" U-joint on one side of the fuselage on this
aircraft, hoping to trim out the problem that way.
The same owner, or perhaps a subsequent owner, tried to adjust one of the wing
flaps a little more up or down, still trying to solve the problem.
But because the flaps are hinged directly to the aileron torque tubes, adjusting
the flap will have an unfortunate side effect of inducing different forces on
the ailerons as well.
If one flap has been adjusted downward (attempt to trim airplane to fly straight),
then when the stick is moved in that direction the pilot has to use more force,
because the pilot is pushing that FLAP down into the airstream more than
he has to push the other flap.
Jimmy removed the adjustable U-joint and replaced it with the standard U-joint,
on advice from the factory. This may have also taken out HALF of the previous
corrective efforts to trim the airplane.
Does this make sense to any of you? Have any of you seen Kolbs where the owner
tried to adjust the flaps in order to correct a wing issue?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III |
clasic
If the aircraft was mine and I had all those problems, I'd start from scratch,
insure the aircraft was built correctly, had not been modified (especially the
control system), and everything was rigged as specified in the plans and instructions.
I would insure I was starting my journey from a standard beginning.
Once I got it back to standard configuration, then I would test fly it, insuring
I did the test flight alone, not with a passenger on board. If I wasn't an
experienced MKIII pilot, I'd find one that was to do my test flying. He would
know what to expect from the MKIII in flight.
If I still encountered the same problems, I'd put the standard (large) rudder trim
tab on temporarily. It can be attached with Gorilla Tape to test fly. Sometimes
the rudder trim tab will correct adverse roll problems, when your mind
is telling you that it is aileron or wing incidence problems.
Always change only one thing at a time. After each change, test fly to see what
that change has affected.
I would not change thrust line in any way, unless it has been modified. Then I
would change it back to what it should be per the instructions. The thrust lines
on Kolb aircraft, all models, are correct the way they were designed and
fabricated. Incorrect thrust lines would not affect the aircrafts flight characteristic
as described unless you mounted the engine backwards.
I would not try to trim the aircraft with flap(s).
Aileron trim tabs are effective for slight roll problems, not the problems you
all describe.
I test flew the latest model MKIII Extra. It demonstrated similar characteristics.
Wanted to fly straight if it was allowed to roll 10 to 15 degrees to the
right. Was a terrible, unnatural feeling. Took a Hell of a lot of left stick
to fly it straight and level, but was happy flying rolled right. This flight
was without a rudder trim tab. We installed the large rudder trim tab, test
flew, and the problem was gone. Hard for me to grasp, but it worked.
These are my thoughts and experiences. It is the way I would do it. I am not
recommending anyone else try this at home.
John h
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III
clasic
One or more Kolbers has pointed to the flaps as a possible reason for the problems
we had. This may be the problem... does the following make sense to the experienced
Kolbers??? :
Let's say that the airplane was not built perfectly straight, and it wanted to
roll one way (like many homebuilts).
One owner installed the "adjustable" U-joint on one side of the fuselage on this
aircraft, hoping to trim out the problem that way.
The same owner, or perhaps a subsequent owner, tried to adjust one of the wing
flaps a little more up or down, still trying to solve the problem.
But because the flaps are hinged directly to the aileron torque tubes, adjusting
the flap will have an unfortunate side effect of inducing different forces on
the ailerons as well.
If one flap has been adjusted downward (attempt to trim airplane to fly straight),
then when the stick is moved in that direction the pilot has to use more force,
because the pilot is pushing that FLAP down into the airstream more than
he has to push the other flap.
Jimmy removed the adjustable U-joint and replaced it with the standard U-joint,
on advice from the factory. This may have also taken out HALF of the previous
corrective efforts to trim the airplane.
Does this make sense to any of you? Have any of you seen Kolbs where the owner
tried to adjust the flaps in order to correct a wing issue?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark |
III clasic
John H thank you for your reply, but I am still left with a specific question:
If you were test flying someone's Mk 3 Classic, and you found that it was 2X or
3X as difficult to roll the aircraft to the right as opposed to rolling it the
left, and if the roll rate to the right was 1/2 as fast as the roll rate to
the left, what would you suspect as the cause of this condition?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/13/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark
III clasic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 3:18 PM
Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
If the aircraft was mine and I had all
those problems, I'd start from scratch, insure the aircraft
was built correctly, had not been modified (especially the
control system), and everything was rigged as specified in
the plans and instructions. I would insure I was
starting my journey from a standard beginning.
Once I got it back to standard
configuration, then I would test fly it, insuring I did the
test flight alone, not with a passenger on board. If I
wasn't an experienced MKIII pilot, I'd find one that was to
do my test flying. He would know what to expect from
the MKIII in flight.
If I still encountered the same
problems, I'd put the standard (large) rudder trim tab on
temporarily. It can be attached with Gorilla Tape to
test fly. Sometimes the rudder trim tab will correct
adverse roll problems, when your mind is telling you that it
is aileron or wing incidence problems.
Always change only one thing at a
time. After each change, test fly to see what that
change has affected.
I would not change thrust line in any
way, unless it has been modified. Then I would change
it back to what it should be per the instructions. The
thrust lines on Kolb aircraft, all models, are correct the
way they were designed and fabricated. Incorrect
thrust lines would not affect the aircrafts flight
characteristic as described unless you mounted the engine
backwards.
I would not try to trim the aircraft
with flap(s).
Aileron trim tabs are effective for
slight roll problems, not the problems you all describe.
I test flew the latest model MKIII
Extra. It demonstrated similar characteristics.
Wanted to fly straight if it was allowed to roll 10 to 15
degrees to the right. Was a terrible, unnatural
feeling. Took a Hell of a lot of left stick to fly it
straight and level, but was happy flying rolled right.
This flight was without a rudder trim tab. We
installed the large rudder trim tab, test flew, and the
problem was gone. Hard for me to grasp, but it
worked.
These are my thoughts and
experiences. It is the way I would do it. I am
not recommending anyone else try this at home.
John h
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:00 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
One or more Kolbers has pointed to the
flaps as a possible reason for the problems we had. This may
be the problem... does the following make sense to the
experienced Kolbers??? :
Let's say that the airplane was not
built perfectly straight, and it wanted to roll one way
(like many homebuilts).
One owner installed the "adjustable"
U-joint on one side of the fuselage on this aircraft, hoping
to trim out the problem that way.
The same owner, or perhaps a subsequent
owner, tried to adjust one of the wing flaps a little more
up or down, still trying to solve the problem.
But because the flaps are hinged
directly to the aileron torque tubes, adjusting the flap
will have an unfortunate side effect of inducing different
forces on the ailerons as well.
If one flap has been adjusted downward
(attempt to trim airplane to fly straight), then when the
stick is moved in that direction the pilot has to use more
force, because the pilot is pushing that FLAP down into the
airstream more than he has to push the other flap.
Jimmy removed the adjustable U-joint
and replaced it with the standard U-joint, on advice from
the factory. This may have also taken out HALF of the
previous corrective efforts to trim the airplane.
Does this make sense to any of you?
Have any of you seen Kolbs where the owner tried to adjust
the flaps in order to correct a wing issue?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety
& performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net -
winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark |
III clasic
In my experience it was lack of an adequate trim tab, if all else was rigged to
specs and the control system had not been changed or modified.
The aircraft I was flying was much easier to roll right than left.
John h
mkIII
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III
clasic
John H thank you for your reply, but I am still left with a specific question:
If you were test flying someone's Mk 3 Classic, and you found that it was 2X or
3X as difficult to roll the aircraft to the right as opposed to rolling it the
left, and if the roll rate to the right was 1/2 as fast as the roll rate to
the left, what would you suspect as the cause of this condition?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/13/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark
III clasic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 3:18 PM
Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
If the aircraft was mine and I had all
those problems, I'd start from scratch, insure the aircraft was built correctly,
had not been modified (especially the control system), and everything was
rigged as specified in the plans and instructions. I would insure I was starting
my journey from a standard beginning.
Once I got it back to standard
configuration, then I would test fly it, insuring I did the test flight alone,
not with a passenger on board. If I wasn't an experienced MKIII pilot, I'd
find one that was to do my test flying. He would know what to expect from
the MKIII in flight.
If I still encountered the same
problems, I'd put the standard (large) rudder trim tab on temporarily. It can
be attached with Gorilla Tape to test fly. Sometimes the rudder trim tab will
correct adverse roll problems, when your mind is telling you that it is
aileron or wing incidence problems.
Always change only one thing at a
time. After each change, test fly to see what that change has affected.
I would not change thrust line in any
way, unless it has been modified. Then I would change it back to what it should
be per the instructions. The thrust lines on Kolb aircraft, all models,
are correct the way they were designed and fabricated. Incorrect thrust lines
would not affect the aircrafts flight characteristic as described unless you
mounted the engine backwards.
I would not try to trim the aircraft
with flap(s).
Aileron trim tabs are effective for
slight roll problems, not the problems you all describe.
I test flew the latest model MKIII
Extra. It demonstrated similar characteristics. Wanted to fly straight if it
was allowed to roll 10 to 15 degrees to the right. Was a terrible, unnatural
feeling. Took a Hell of a lot of left stick to fly it straight and level,
but was happy flying rolled right. This flight was without a rudder trim tab.
We installed the large rudder trim tab, test flew, and the problem was gone.
Hard for me to grasp, but it worked.
These are my thoughts and
experiences. It is the way I would do it. I am not recommending anyone else
try this at home.
John h
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:00 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
One or more Kolbers has pointed to the
flaps as a possible reason for the problems we had. This may be the problem...
does the following make sense to the experienced Kolbers??? :
Let's say that the airplane was not
built perfectly straight, and it wanted to roll one way (like many homebuilts).
One owner installed the "adjustable"
U-joint on one side of the fuselage on this aircraft, hoping to trim out the
problem that way.
The same owner, or perhaps a subsequent owner, tried to adjust one of the wing
flaps a little more up or down, still trying to solve the problem.
But because the flaps are hinged
directly to the aileron torque tubes, adjusting the flap will have an unfortunate
side effect of inducing different forces on the ailerons as well.
If one flap has been adjusted downward
(attempt to trim airplane to fly straight), then when the stick is moved in that
direction the pilot has to use more force, because the pilot is pushing that
FLAP down into the airstream more than he has to push the other flap.
Jimmy removed the adjustable U-joint
and replaced it with the standard U-joint, on advice from the factory. This may
have also taken out HALF of the previous corrective efforts to trim the airplane.
Does this make sense to any of you?
Have any of you seen Kolbs where the owner tried to adjust the flaps in order
to correct a wing issue?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety
& performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark |
III clasic
That is very helpful, thank you for taking time to respond.
Over and above the potential causes and fixes for this, another thing I am getting
out of all this discussion is that significant aileron system issues (control
heaviness, asymmetrical loads and high required force) is not seen as being
rare or abnormal for a Kolb.
As a suggestion, I will advise Jimmy O'Neal to find the original Kolb rigging and
control setup specifications and start by making sure that this is all set
back to the factory specs. That way he will know where he is starting from.
I will also advise him to make a proper series of measurements to determine whether
there is a warp, twist, or other "big picture" issue with the aircraft.
As far as resolving the high force to actuate the aileron system, does anyone on
the Kolb list know whether the aerobatic style "spades" that were developed
for one Kolb actually solved this problem? It seems like a lot of effort and modification,
but I also know that these spades do work (on aerobatic aircraft
and for a different intended purpose).
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/13/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark
III clasic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 3:45 PM
Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
In my experience it was lack of an
adequate trim tab, if all else was rigged to specs and the
control system had not been changed or modified.
The aircraft I was flying was much
easier to roll right than left.
John h
mkIII
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 6:32 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
John H thank you for your reply, but I
am still left with a specific question:
If you were test flying someone's Mk 3
Classic, and you found that it was 2X or 3X as difficult to
roll the aircraft to the right as opposed to rolling it the
left, and if the roll rate to the right was 1/2 as fast as
the roll rate to the left, what would you suspect as the
cause of this condition?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety
& performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net -
winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/13/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 3:18 PM
"John
Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
If the aircraft was mine and I had
all
those problems, I'd start from
scratch, insure the aircraft was built correctly, had
not been modified (especially the control system), and
everything was rigged as specified in the plans and
instructions. I would insure I was starting my
journey from a standard beginning.
Once I got it back to standard
configuration, then I would test fly
it, insuring I did the test flight alone, not with a
passenger on board. If I wasn't an experienced
MKIII pilot, I'd find one that was to do my test
flying. He would know what to expect from the
MKIII in flight.
If I still encountered the same
problems, I'd put the standard (large)
rudder trim tab on temporarily. It can be
attached with Gorilla Tape to test fly.
Sometimes the rudder trim tab will correct adverse
roll problems, when your mind is telling you that it
is aileron or wing incidence problems.
Always change only one thing at a
time. After each change, test
fly to see what that change has affected.
I would not change thrust line in any
way, unless it has been
modified. Then I would change it back to what it
should be per the instructions. The thrust lines
on Kolb aircraft, all models, are correct the way they
were designed and fabricated. Incorrect thrust
lines would not affect the aircrafts flight
characteristic as described unless you mounted the
engine backwards.
I would not try to trim the aircraft
with flap(s).
Aileron trim tabs are effective for
slight roll problems, not the problems
you all describe.
I test flew the latest model MKIII
Extra. It demonstrated similar
characteristics. Wanted to fly straight if it was
allowed to roll 10 to 15 degrees to the right.
Was a terrible, unnatural feeling. Took a Hell
of a lot of left stick to fly it straight and level,
but was happy flying rolled right. This flight was
without a rudder trim tab. We installed the
large rudder trim tab, test flew, and the problem was
gone. Hard for me to grasp, but it worked.
These are my thoughts and
experiences. It is the way I
would do it. I am not recommending anyone else
try this at home.
John h
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:00 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
Flying characteristics of new to me
Mark III clasic
Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
One or more Kolbers has pointed to
the
flaps as a possible reason for the
problems we had. This may be the problem... does the
following make sense to the experienced Kolbers??? :
Let's say that the airplane was not
built perfectly straight, and it
wanted to roll one way (like many homebuilts).
One owner installed the "adjustable"
U-joint on one side of the fuselage on
this aircraft, hoping to trim out the problem that
way.
The same owner, or perhaps a
subsequent owner, tried to adjust one of the wing
flaps a little more up or down, still trying to solve
the problem.
But because the flaps are hinged
directly to the aileron torque tubes,
adjusting the flap will have an unfortunate side
effect of inducing different forces on the ailerons as
well.
If one flap has been adjusted
downward
(attempt to trim airplane to fly
straight), then when the stick is moved in that
direction the pilot has to use more force, because the
pilot is pushing that FLAP down into the airstream
more than he has to push the other flap.
Jimmy removed the adjustable U-joint
and replaced it with the standard
U-joint, on advice from the factory. This may have
also taken out HALF of the previous corrective efforts
to trim the airplane.
Does this make sense to any of you?
Have any of you seen Kolbs where the
owner tried to adjust the flaps in order to correct a
wing issue?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety
& performance upgrade for light
aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST
WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web
Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List
Admin.
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
Jimmy I am posting things on the Kolb e-mail list, but nobody seems to have a direct
answer for why the airplane rolls one way and not another.
I have three separate ideas for you to try, but I have not tested any of them.
First, Use a digital level, measuring at three or four places on each wing, to
make sure your airplane is not warped or built improperly. If one wing is twisted
only a few degrees, it will answer half of these problems immediately. Tape
or clamp the level onto a piece of aluminum angle or a straight edge that is
100% straight. Jack up the tailwheel until the airplane is level by their definition.
Measure at the root rib on each side, two ribs on each wing in the middle,
and the last tip rib. You are checking to see that ALL of these lines are
exactly the same.
Second, make 100% sure your airplane is rigged and adjusted to the factory specs.
Get this information from Bryan Melbourne if you don't already have it. Basically,
forget about anything that anyone else has done, and "zero out" the settings
to whatever Kolb says they are supposed to be.
Third, make a piece of tube or dowel that fits into or onto the control stick,
that allows you to have another 6 or 8 inches of leverage. This can be temporary,
but you definitely need to have more control avaiilable than you need to use.
Fourth, actually measure and record how much each aileron twists when you move
the stick and someone holds the tip of the aileron. What you are looking for is
one aileron being more flexible than the other, or one aileron having something
loose or cracked, etc.
At that time, after you have proven the wings are not twisted, and all four control
surfaces are where the factory says they should be,a nd nothing is weak or
cracked... THEN go test fly the aircraft again. Test it on the main runway,
before the control tower opens. Do short flights at 5 foot altitude, verify that
the airplane flies straight and that you have no "pull" or roll to the right
or left. You MUST prove to yourself (and your kids) that you have plenty of
aileron control authority to roll right and left equally, BEFORE you let yourself
get above 5 feet.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/12/17, jonealjr <jonealjr@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, June 12, 2017, 1:31 PM
"jonealjr" <jonealjr@gmail.com>
PLEASE HELP IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE
WITH THIS :)
I have a mark III classic w 912 uls
Acting odd during taxi needs lots of left rudder to keep on
the runway with tail on and off the ground and while flying
needs lots of right stick to keep plane level. If you let go
of the controls during straight and level flight the plane
wants to roll to the left has anyone had similar experiences
and or has anybody had any luck with adjusting engine mounts
changing the thrust angle to help with aileron trim etc
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470012#470012
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III |
clasic
Jimmy
I agree with John H make sure the plane is built to specifications first.
Bill
I disagree 100%. Kolb airplanes never have control issues if they are built
correctly. That being said they are built by builders of all skill levels.
So to say it in a more technical way, shit happens.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
> That is very helpful, thank you for taking time to respond.
>
> Over and above the potential causes and fixes for this, another thing I am
> getting out of all this discussion is that significant aileron system
> issues (control heaviness, asymmetrical loads and high required force) is
> not seen as being rare or abnormal for a Kolb.
>
> As a suggestion, I will advise Jimmy O'Neal to find the original Kolb
> rigging and control setup specifications and start by making sure that this
> is all set back to the factory specs. That way he will know where he is
> starting from.
>
> I will also advise him to make a proper series of measurements to
> determine whether there is a warp, twist, or other "big picture" issue with
> the aircraft.
>
> As far as resolving the high force to actuate the aileron system, does
> anyone on the Kolb list know whether the aerobatic style "spades" that were
> developed for one Kolb actually solved this problem? It seems like a lot of
> effort and modification, but I also know that these spades do work (on
> aerobatic aircraft and for a different intended purpose).
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 6/13/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me
> Mark III clasic
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 3:45 PM
>
> Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> In my experience it was lack of an
> adequate trim tab, if all else was rigged to specs and the
> control system had not been changed or modified.
>
> The aircraft I was flying was much
> easier to roll right than left.
>
> John h
> mkIII
> Fayetteville, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bill Berle
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 6:32 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
> Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
>
> Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
> John H thank you for your reply, but I
> am still left with a specific question:
>
> If you were test flying someone's Mk 3
> Classic, and you found that it was 2X or 3X as difficult to
> roll the aircraft to the right as opposed to rolling it the
> left, and if the roll rate to the right was 1/2 as fast as
> the roll rate to the left, what would you suspect as the
> cause of this condition?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety
> & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net -
> winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 6/13/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
> Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 3:18 PM
>
> "John
> Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> If the aircraft was mine and I had
> all
> those problems, I'd start from
> scratch, insure the aircraft was built correctly, had
> not been modified (especially the control system), and
> everything was rigged as specified in the plans and
> instructions. I would insure I was starting my
> journey from a standard beginning.
>
> Once I got it back to standard
> configuration, then I would test fly
> it, insuring I did the test flight alone, not with a
> passenger on board. If I wasn't an experienced
> MKIII pilot, I'd find one that was to do my test
> flying. He would know what to expect from the
> MKIII in flight.
>
> If I still encountered the same
> problems, I'd put the standard (large)
> rudder trim tab on temporarily. It can be
> attached with Gorilla Tape to test fly.
> Sometimes the rudder trim tab will correct adverse
> roll problems, when your mind is telling you that it
> is aileron or wing incidence problems.
>
> Always change only one thing at a
> time. After each change, test
> fly to see what that change has affected.
>
> I would not change thrust line in any
> way, unless it has been
> modified. Then I would change it back to what it
> should be per the instructions. The thrust lines
> on Kolb aircraft, all models, are correct the way they
> were designed and fabricated. Incorrect thrust
> lines would not affect the aircrafts flight
> characteristic as described unless you mounted the
> engine backwards.
>
> I would not try to trim the aircraft
> with flap(s).
>
> Aileron trim tabs are effective for
> slight roll problems, not the problems
> you all describe.
>
> I test flew the latest model MKIII
> Extra. It demonstrated similar
> characteristics. Wanted to fly straight if it was
> allowed to roll 10 to 15 degrees to the right.
> Was a terrible, unnatural feeling. Took a Hell
> of a lot of left stick to fly it straight and level,
> but was happy flying rolled right. This flight was
> without a rudder trim tab. We installed the
> large rudder trim tab, test flew, and the problem was
> gone. Hard for me to grasp, but it worked.
>
> These are my thoughts and
> experiences. It is the way I
> would do it. I am not recommending anyone else
> try this at home.
>
> John h
> Fayetteville, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bill Berle
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:00 PM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
> Flying characteristics of new to me
> Mark III clasic
>
> Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
> One or more Kolbers has pointed to
> the
> flaps as a possible reason for the
> problems we had. This may be the problem... does the
> following make sense to the experienced Kolbers??? :
>
> Let's say that the airplane was not
> built perfectly straight, and it
> wanted to roll one way (like many homebuilts).
>
> One owner installed the "adjustable"
> U-joint on one side of the fuselage on
> this aircraft, hoping to trim out the problem that
> way.
>
> The same owner, or perhaps a
> subsequent owner, tried to adjust one of the wing
> flaps a little more up or down, still trying to solve
> the problem.
>
> But because the flaps are hinged
> directly to the aileron torque tubes,
> adjusting the flap will have an unfortunate side
> effect of inducing different forces on the ailerons as
> well.
>
> If one flap has been adjusted
> downward
> (attempt to trim airplane to fly
> straight), then when the stick is moved in that
> direction the pilot has to use more force, because the
> pilot is pushing that FLAP down into the airstream
> more than he has to push the other flap.
>
> Jimmy removed the adjustable U-joint
> and replaced it with the standard
> U-joint, on advice from the factory. This may have
> also taken out HALF of the previous corrective efforts
> to trim the airplane.
>
> Does this make sense to any of you?
> Have any of you seen Kolbs where the
> owner tried to adjust the flaps in order to correct a
> wing issue?
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety
> & performance upgrade for light
> aircraft www.grantstar.net
> - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities
>
>
> The Kolb-List Email Forum -
> Navigator to browse
> List Un/Subscription,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB
> FORUMS -
> via the Web Forums!
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST
> WIKI -
> Email List Wiki!
> - List Contribution Web
> Site -
> support!
>
>
> -Matt Dralle, List
> Admin.
>
>
> The Kolb-List Email Forum -
> Navigator to browse
> List Un/Subscription,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> via the Web Forums!
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> Email List Wiki!
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> support!
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III |
clasic
On 6/13/2017 2:55 PM, Ralph B wrote:
>
> Along with the U-joints, there is also the offset fin. This was installed by
the builder and I don't see how I would do without it. I've also included a picture
of the adjustable rudder trim tab. Between the U-joints, offset fin, and
rudder trim tab, the Kolbra can fly hands off in calm air. For pitch trim, the
builder installed a motorized bungee windup to move the stick forward or aft.
It is controlled with a toggle switch for nose up or down trim.
>
> Ralph B
>
> --------
> Ralph B
>
> Kolb Kolbra 912uls
> N20386
> 550 hours
Clever ideas, but a couple of questions.
1st, no safety wire on that turnbuckle?
2nd, what's to keep those little shackles on the horizontal stabs from
going overcenter & moving the leading edge up instead of down?
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
Jimmy
We don't know your airplane so we can only guess what maybe the problem.
You have our best suggestions..... Maybe it isn't the airplane?
Bill may have some good suggestions but do not follow the 5 foot
suggestion. Our Kolbs do not react well in this maneuver. I can't think of
a better way to bend a perfectly good Kolb.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 7:18 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
> Jimmy I am posting things on the Kolb e-mail list, but nobody seems to
> have a direct answer for why the airplane rolls one way and not another.
>
> I have three separate ideas for you to try, but I have not tested any of
> them.
>
> First, Use a digital level, measuring at three or four places on each
> wing, to make sure your airplane is not warped or built improperly. If one
> wing is twisted only a few degrees, it will answer half of these problems
> immediately. Tape or clamp the level onto a piece of aluminum angle or a
> straight edge that is 100% straight. Jack up the tailwheel until the
> airplane is level by their definition. Measure at the root rib on each
> side, two ribs on each wing in the middle, and the last tip rib. You are
> checking to see that ALL of these lines are exactly the same.
>
> Second, make 100% sure your airplane is rigged and adjusted to the factory
> specs. Get this information from Bryan Melbourne if you don't already have
> it. Basically, forget about anything that anyone else has done, and "zero
> out" the settings to whatever Kolb says they are supposed to be.
>
> Third, make a piece of tube or dowel that fits into or onto the control
> stick, that allows you to have another 6 or 8 inches of leverage. This can
> be temporary, but you definitely need to have more control avaiilable than
> you need to use.
>
> Fourth, actually measure and record how much each aileron twists when you
> move the stick and someone holds the tip of the aileron. What you are
> looking for is one aileron being more flexible than the other, or one
> aileron having something loose or cracked, etc.
>
> At that time, after you have proven the wings are not twisted, and all
> four control surfaces are where the factory says they should be,a nd
> nothing is weak or cracked... THEN go test fly the aircraft again. Test it
> on the main runway, before the control tower opens. Do short flights at 5
> foot altitude, verify that the airplane flies straight and that you have no
> "pull" or roll to the right or left. You MUST prove to yourself (and your
> kids) that you have plenty of aileron control authority to roll right and
> left equally, BEFORE you let yourself get above 5 feet.
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 6/12/17, jonealjr <jonealjr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III
> clasic
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, June 12, 2017, 1:31 PM
>
> "jonealjr" <jonealjr@gmail.com>
>
> PLEASE HELP IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE
> WITH THIS :)
>
> I have a mark III classic w 912 uls
> Acting odd during taxi needs lots of left rudder to keep on
> the runway with tail on and off the ground and while flying
> needs lots of right stick to keep plane level. If you let go
> of the controls during straight and level flight the plane
> wants to roll to the left has anyone had similar experiences
> and or has anybody had any luck with adjusting engine mounts
> changing the thrust angle to help with aileron trim etc
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470012#470012
>
>
> The Kolb-List Email Forum -
> Navigator to browse
> List Un/Subscription,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> via the Web Forums!
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> Email List Wiki!
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> support!
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
https://microsoft-powertoys-image-resizer.en.softonic.com/
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470077#470077
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark |
III clasic
Kolbs were not designed for aerobatics and fast roll rates at higher speeds.
Homer Kolb's idea of the epitome of flight was to fly slowly, just above the stall
and just above the tree tops, to be in contact with the ground. His requirement
was full aileron control right through the stall. In order to do this,
Kolbs have very large ailerons. The Ultrastars and Firestars had full span deep
cord ailerons just for that purpose. If one wants quick full aileron throw
he must slow down. The faster the airspeed the heavier the aileron. At higher
speeds, 80, 90, and higher, the MKIII is still very flyable, but you aren't
going to move the ailerons very much very quickly. If you want faster roll
rate, slow down.
If one is flying fast, gets into severe turbulence, and think they need a lot of
aileron input quickly, you ain't gonna get it. Slow down to a comfortable maneuvering
speed and your bird will do exactly what you tell it to. You cannot
be forceful. There is a lot of leverage in that control stick. If you force
it, something might bend or break.
At slower speeds my MKIII, and the other two Kolbs I built, will respond quite
readily to aileron input. One can easily get full aileron travel.
I once complained to Homer Kolb about the heavy ailerons. Homer told me to be
gentle and the airplane would do what I wanted it to do. A gentle pilot, in my
opinion, is a much better pilot than one that tries to force an airplane to
respond.
Again, my own opinion. Don't recommend anyone doing like I do, but it works for
me.
John h
mkIII
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 7:03 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III
clasic
That is very helpful, thank you for taking time to respond.
Over and above the potential causes and fixes for this, another thing I am getting
out of all this discussion is that significant aileron system issues (control
heaviness, asymmetrical loads and high required force) is not seen as being
rare or abnormal for a Kolb.
As a suggestion, I will advise Jimmy O'Neal to find the original Kolb rigging and
control setup specifications and start by making sure that this is all set
back to the factory specs. That way he will know where he is starting from.
I will also advise him to make a proper series of measurements to determine whether
there is a warp, twist, or other "big picture" issue with the aircraft.
As far as resolving the high force to actuate the aileron system, does anyone on
the Kolb list know whether the aerobatic style "spades" that were developed
for one Kolb actually solved this problem? It seems like a lot of effort and modification,
but I also know that these spades do work (on aerobatic aircraft
and for a different intended purpose).
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/13/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark
III clasic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 3:45 PM
Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
In my experience it was lack of an
adequate trim tab, if all else was rigged to specs and the control system had
not been changed or modified.
The aircraft I was flying was much
easier to roll right than left.
John h
mkIII
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 6:32 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
John H thank you for your reply, but I
am still left with a specific question:
If you were test flying someone's Mk 3
Classic, and you found that it was 2X or 3X as difficult to roll the aircraft
to the right as opposed to rolling it the left, and if the roll rate to the
right was 1/2 as fast as the roll rate to the left, what would you suspect as
the cause of this condition?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety
& performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/13/17, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 3:18 PM
"John
Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
If the aircraft was mine and I had
all
those problems, I'd start from
scratch, insure the aircraft was built correctly, had not been modified (especially
the control system), and everything was rigged as specified in the
plans and instructions. I would insure I was starting my journey from a standard
beginning.
Once I got it back to standard
configuration, then I would test fly
it, insuring I did the test flight alone, not with a passenger on board. If
I wasn't an experienced MKIII pilot, I'd find one that was to do my test
flying. He would know what to expect from the MKIII in flight.
If I still encountered the same
problems, I'd put the standard (large) rudder trim tab on temporarily. It
can be attached with Gorilla Tape to test fly. Sometimes the rudder trim tab
will correct adverse roll problems, when your mind is telling you that it
is aileron or wing incidence problems.
Always change only one thing at a
time. After each change, test
fly to see what that change has affected.
I would not change thrust line in any
way, unless it has been
modified. Then I would change it back to what it should be per the instructions.
The thrust lines on Kolb aircraft, all models, are correct the way they
were designed and fabricated. Incorrect thrust lines would not affect
the aircrafts flight characteristic as described unless you mounted the engine
backwards.
I would not try to trim the aircraft
with flap(s).
Aileron trim tabs are effective for
slight roll problems, not the problems you all describe.
I test flew the latest model MKIII
Extra. It demonstrated similar
characteristics. Wanted to fly straight if it was allowed to roll 10 to 15
degrees to the right. Was a terrible, unnatural feeling. Took a Hell of a
lot of left stick to fly it straight and level, but was happy flying rolled
right. This flight was without a rudder trim tab. We installed the large
rudder trim tab, test flew, and the problem was gone. Hard for me to grasp,
but it worked.
These are my thoughts and
experiences. It is the way I
would do it. I am not recommending anyone else try this at home.
John h
Fayetteville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:00 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Strange
Flying characteristics of new to me
Mark III clasic
Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
One or more Kolbers has pointed to
the
flaps as a possible reason for the
problems we had. This may be the problem... does the following make sense to
the experienced Kolbers??? :
Let's say that the airplane was not
built perfectly straight, and it
wanted to roll one way (like many homebuilts).
One owner installed the "adjustable"
U-joint on one side of the fuselage on this aircraft, hoping to trim out the
problem that way.
The same owner, or perhaps a
subsequent owner, tried to adjust one of the wing flaps a little more up or
down, still trying to solve the problem.
But because the flaps are hinged
directly to the aileron torque tubes,
adjusting the flap will have an unfortunate side effect of inducing different
forces on the ailerons as well.
If one flap has been adjusted
downward
(attempt to trim airplane to fly
straight), then when the stick is moved in that direction the pilot has to use
more force, because the pilot is pushing that FLAP down into the airstream
more than he has to push the other flap.
Jimmy removed the adjustable U-joint
and replaced it with the standard
U-joint, on advice from the factory. This may have also taken out HALF of the
previous corrective efforts to trim the airplane.
Does this make sense to any of you?
Have any of you seen Kolbs where the
owner tried to adjust the flaps in order to correct a wing issue?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety
& performance upgrade for light
aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
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Subject: | Re: Strange Flying characteristics of new to me Mark III clasic |
Richard Pike wrote:
> https://microsoft-powertoys-image-resizer.en.softonic.com/
Richard, I have a picture re-sizer but it didn't change the actual picture size,
just the resolution. Matt should have a re-sizer built right into his program.
do not archive
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470080#470080
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