Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:34 AM - Kolb Firestar and =?ISO-8859-1?Q?20=99?= container hangar - possible? (ave8ta)
2. 07:44 AM - Re: Kolb Firestar and =?ISO-8859-1?Q?20=99?= container hangar - possible? (Richard Pike)
3. 12:52 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar and =?ISO-8859-1?Q?20=99?= container hangar - possible? (ave8ta)
4. 06:23 PM - Re: Virb settings - Yet another video (George Helton)
5. 06:47 PM - Re: Virb settings - Yet another video (Larry Cottrell)
6. 09:30 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar and 20 ft. container hangar - possible? (Bill Berle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Kolb Firestar and =?ISO-8859-1?Q?20=99?= container hangar - |
possible?
Hi all,
I would like to purchase a FireStar II SS. Love the folding wing capabilities!
Can the Kolb FireStar II SS fit and be hangered inside a 20 container?
Where I live security is a real issue and she must be stored between flights in
a 20 Container. Comparing the dimensions of the container and FireStar II SS
we see a small problem with length :
Container Mark III
Conclusion
Height 74 (door) 64 fits
Width 76 (door) 610 fits
Length 195 interior length 222 -27
http://www.dimensionsinfo.com/20ft-container-size/
What are your thoughts please? Will angling her up let her fit ? Removing nose
or rudder? Any one flying from a 20' foot container?
Thanking you in advance.
Strength for today, Bright Hope for tomorrow
Yours Faithfully
Paul Dalley
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471341#471341
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Subject: | Re: Kolb Firestar and =?ISO-8859-1?Q?20=99?= container hangar |
- possible?
According to the Kolb web site, the FSII SS is 22' long. There is no point in removing
the nose cone because the rudder pedals & nose wheel will still be out
there. You might gain a few inches by making the front of the nose cone quick
detach.
You would need to shorten the wings a bit as well as make the rudder quick disconnect
because when folded, the wing tips typically come back to the end of the
rudder. The trailing edges of the elevators are still going to stick bak out
there though.
Search the archives for info on shortening the tail boom, several people have done
that in the past and were not real happy with the results, but I don't remember
the details, that is an old topic. It might be possible to shorten it just
a little, but from what I remember, not very much or things go wonky.
Maybe it would be easier to buy four 8' pieces of scrap steel 2' wide, cut one
end of the container off, weld in the 2' wide pieces of steel and make the container
longer? A decent welding shop ought to be able to knock that out in a day.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471342#471342
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Kolb Firestar and =?ISO-8859-1?Q?20=99?= container hangar |
- possible?
Good morning Richard.
Thank you for your detailed reply.
Your first hand knowledge is what was needed thank you.
Yes if the wings actually come all the way to the back of the rudder, then it looks
likes as you say the wings and the tail boom will both have to be shortened,
which is unfeasible.
I'm a kiwi pilot flying in the South Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu. Oh World
War Two fame as Bali High in the Tales of the South Pacific. Carry my fair share
of sick of dying and so many of these jungle villages are completely isolated.
THe last dead baby we carried was in a battered old suitcase and its heartbreaking.
Done some missionary flying up in PNG so on my days off want to help
and fly as much as I can. So with nurse girl friend we would like to do aerial
drops to the villages etc.
There is no infrastructure at all here and certainly no hangars at any of the airports
for airplanes. At times shipping containers reach the two ports - so a
20 foot container in the 'captial' and the northern 'town' where i am based and
one more sent out on the twice a year boat far north would give me three little
hangars across the nation.
Had considered modifying a container and will consider that. 40' containers cant
be carried by the local barge so that doesnt work either.
A folding wing Kolb that could live in a 20' container, purchased in its own portable
container would be greatly appreciated around the world . . .
Thank you again.
Strength for today, Bright hope for tomorrow
Yours Faithfully
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471349#471349
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Virb settings - Yet another video |
Well Larry, I received my virb elite yesterday. I took it out for a flight t
his morning. I mounted in the GoPro mount that's on my nose cone of my Fires
tar original. I used all of your settings. The camera works great,color, res
olution, etc. unfortunately it's weight is a lot more then the GoPro session
5. A half pound verses 2 oz. . Besides wind vibration I'm getting a lot of r
esonance vibrations thru the airframe especially at reduced or while reducin
g power. I was wondering how you mount your camera because your videos are s
o smooth and vibration free. I really like this camera. It's works well. Tha
nks, George
Have a great day!
> On Jul 28, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> wro
te:
>
> The settings that I use fits my needs best, and are as follows.
> video mode 1080P
> field of view- Ultra Zoom
> Loop- off
> Auto Record- When moving
> Digital Stabilizer- on
> Lens correction- check
>
> Of all the settings on the camera, the "Ultra Zoom" is the most important
and gets rid of the fish eye effect.
>
> I use Auto record simply because it makes its use "fool proof". I do have a
remote, but I am so ingenious that I can still screw it up. With a good Mic
ro SD card it will record up to about 6 hours, and none of us has that much r
ange. You can still activate the camera while the virb is recording with the
remote. The camera has Wifi, but its line of sight and not as reliable as a
real remote.
>
> If you want to see the G Metrix (Speed etc) you will have to use the editi
ng program that comes with the camera. It ( to me) seems to be a bit difficu
lt to use, but then I probably haven't invested the time to learn it. I make
a basic cut of what I want to show, then export it to a folder on my comput
er. I will then import it into Cyberlink editing program and finish it there
.
>
> If there is any way that I can help you with it don't hesitate to ask.
>
> Looking forward to some videos from you.
> Larry
>
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of oth
ers.
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addre
ss before sending.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Virb settings - Yet another video |
This is where mine is located. I have tried every where else and this is
the only place on my plane that gives me a decent video.
I have a pitot tube right through the front of the pod. I think I got it
from LEAF and the original attraction is that the pitot tube can be
removed. I had one bent at a airshow. By someones spoiled kid of course, so
I got this one. The shorter you can keep the connections and extensions the
firmer the mount.
The other spot would be on the fold hard point on the wing. You can record
right side up or upside down in the settings, just no in between.
The mount is set up for a drift camera now, you would have to secure the
cradle rather than the screw in. If you are fond of selfies the wing would
be the way to go. :-)
Larry
On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 7:22 PM, George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well Larry, I received my virb elite yesterday. I took it out for a flight
> this morning. I mounted in the GoPro mount that's on my nose cone of my
> Firestar original. I used all of your settings. The camera works
> great,color, resolution, etc. unfortunately it's weight is a lot more then
> the GoPro session5. A half pound verses 2 oz. . Besides wind vibration I'm
> getting a lot of resonance vibrations thru the airframe especially at
> reduced or while reducing power. I was wondering how you mount your camera
> because your videos are so smooth and vibration free. I really like this
> camera. It's works well. Thanks, George
>
> Have a great day!
>
> On Jul 28, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> The settings that I use fits my needs best, and are as follows.
> video mode 1080P
> field of view- Ultra Zoom
> Loop- off
> Auto Record- When moving
> Digital Stabilizer- on
> Lens correction- check
>
> Of all the settings on the camera, the "Ultra Zoom" is the most important
> and gets rid of the fish eye effect.
>
> I use Auto record simply because it makes its use "fool proof". I do have
> a remote, but I am so ingenious that I can still screw it up. With a good
> Micro SD card it will record up to about 6 hours, and none of us has that
> much range. You can still activate the camera while the virb is recording
> with the remote. The camera has Wifi, but its line of sight and not as
> reliable as a real remote.
>
> If you want to see the G Metrix (Speed etc) you will have to use the
> editing program that comes with the camera. It ( to me) seems to be a bit
> difficult to use, but then I probably haven't invested the time to learn
> it. I make a basic cut of what I want to show, then export it to a folder
> on my computer. I will then import it into Cyberlink editing program and
> finish it there.
>
> If there is any way that I can help you with it don't hesitate to ask.
>
> Looking forward to some videos from you.
> Larry
>
> --
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
> others.*
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Kolb Firestar and 20 ft. container hangar - possible? |
The main parameter for the flight characteristics being discussed is called "Tail
Volume". This is expressed as area times moment arm, where area is the square
footage area of the tail surface in question, and moment arm is the distance
between the aircrft center pf gravity and the center of the square footage "area"
of the tail.
It's like a child's "teeter totter": You can have a heavier person that is close
to the pivot point,a nd a ligh ter person that is further away form the pivot
point,a nd it can still balance.
So ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL, on a "NORMAL" aircraft, if you need to shorten the tail
then you can increase the size (area) of the tail and still achioeve the same
"Tail Volume".
Let's say that your fin and rudder together add up to ten square feet (no idea
if this is what the Kolb fin/rudder area is), and the center of this area is 13
feet from the aircraft's center of gravity (I think the Kolb tailbooms are 13
feet long). The "Tail Volume" of this is a value of 130.
If you needed o shorten the tailboom length down to 10 feet (to fit in your container),
then in order to achieve the same tail volume (and flight characteristics)
you need to increase the size of the fin and rudder until the area is 13
square feet. In THEORY, and according to the textbooks, the airplane SHOULD fly
exactly the same as it did with the old tail.
Now there are exceptions tot his "theory" and a whole l ot of other things that
can affect the actual result. On a Kolb side by side aircraft, the wide fuselage
and all those sharp awkward angles behind the widest point, will almost certainly
create a bunch of separated and jumbled upa irflow behind it. So if you
go really short on the tailboom, like 7 or 8 feet, you will probably have a
strange or unsafe flying airplane no matter how large you make the tail.
But shortening a 13 foot tailboom down to 11.5 or 12 feet will PROBABLY be just
fine if you increase the size of the tail to the corresponding correct area.
Before you take a hacksaw to a Kolb tailboom, PLEASE check with a REAL trained
aerodynamics guy who can figure out all these numbers, and verify or disprove
what I said about the tail volume.
Shortening the wings slightly is a l ot easier and a lot lower risk. There are
several factory versions of the Kolb with shorter wingspans (and shorter tails)
than the Firestar, and those aircraft have been shown to fl y well, safely,
etc.
Essentially, If you only need to make the airplane a foot or less shorter to fit
in the container, then I believe you can consult with a proper trained aero
guy, increase the fin/rudder and stabilizer/elevator areas by a small amount,
shorten the tailboom, make smaller wingtips,a nd have a safe and reasonable airplane.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 7/29/17, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar and 20 container hangar - possible?
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Saturday, July 29, 2017, 7:44 AM
Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
According to the Kolb web site, the
FSII SS is 22' long. There is no point in removing the nose
cone because the rudder pedals & nose wheel will still
be out there. You might gain a few inches by making the
front of the nose cone quick detach.
You would need to shorten the wings a
bit as well as make the rudder quick disconnect because when
folded, the wing tips typically come back to the end of the
rudder. The trailing edges of the elevators are still going
to stick bak out there though.
Search the archives for info on
shortening the tail boom, several people have done that in
the past and were not real happy with the results, but I
don't remember the details, that is an old topic. It might
be possible to shorten it just a little, but from what I
remember, not very much or things go wonky.
Maybe it would be easier to buy four 8'
pieces of scrap steel 2' wide, cut one end of the container
off, weld in the 2' wide pieces of steel and make the
container longer? A decent welding shop ought to be able to
knock that out in a day.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is
wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471342#471342
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