---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/29/17: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:35 AM - First Flights Completed! (RoHam) 2. 09:42 AM - Re: First Flights Completed! (B Young) 3. 10:24 AM - Re: First Flights Completed! (william sullivan) 4. 10:52 AM - Re: First Flights Completed! (Richard Pike) 5. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (Charlie England) 6. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (jpfitt) 7. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (John Hauck) 8. 01:48 PM - FW: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (John Hauck) 9. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (jpfitt) 10. 02:16 PM - Twinstar MKII (Mark K) 11. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (John Hauck) 12. 03:05 PM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (John Hauck) 13. 03:36 PM - Re: FW: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (Charlie England) 14. 03:43 PM - Re: First Flights Completed! (Richard Girard) 15. 05:10 PM - Re: First Flights Completed! (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:15 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: First Flights Completed! From: "RoHam" Hi Everyone. Last weekend yielded the best weather I could have hoped for, warm,sunny and no winds to speak of. I took my FSII to nearby SFZ where from the Airport manager on down the line could not have been more friendly and welcoming. They set the stage for what was a great experience. I got things together, taxied out to the 5000' runway added power and off I went. I planned using 55mph for climbout and was amazed at how quicly it accelerated and climbed at that speed. Iflew around to get a feel for slow speed handling and found it stalled at 40mph dropping the right wing. Using flaps (yes my FSII has flaps) yeilded only slightly slower (38)stall with a more pronounced wing drop. Flaps were not used for remainder of flights. Landing approach was done at 55mph which setup a reasonable decent. Reaching around 50" I added power to arrest decent, with a flare around 10' settle to runway and BAM! right up on my nose. [Rolling Eyes] Lesson learned is make sure you put your size 10 heels in front of the heel brakes, not in front where comfort dictates. No real damage other than to pride and bent antena and road rash on cowl. As of yesterday I've put in 8 hrs of time with a mix of landings from dropping in and respectable. the gear may have suffer from some. Any way to straightren aluminum gear? Whats the options and possible vendors? ...Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473932#473932 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:53 AM PST US From: B Young Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flights Completed! ""Lesson learned is make sure you put your size 10 heels ! in front of the heel brakes, not in front where comfort dictates."" If your heals are hitting the brakes at the same time your toes are on the rudder pedals....... Here is an idea to think on,,,, only an idea.... If you shorten the rudder cables it should bring the top of the rudder pedals closer to you / or more over the top of the brakes. Now in order to hit the brakes you will have to pull your toes back towards you in order to reach the brakes with your heals... So if an event requires you need both, you won't have to lift your heals over the pedals waisting time... Or on the other side of things you could reposition the brakes further forward... Either way the geometry would be the same. The choice may depend on the legnth of your legs and which is more comfortable. Just think on it. Boyd Young On Oct 29, 2017 9:37 AM, "RoHam" wrote: > > Hi Everyone. > Last weekend yielded the best weather I could have hoped for, warm,sunny > and no winds to speak of. I took my FSII to nearby SFZ where from the > Airport manager on down the line could not have been more friendly and > welcoming. They set the stage for what was a great experience. I got things > together, taxied out to the 5000' runway added power and off I went. I > planned using 55mph for climbout and was amazed at how quicly it > accelerated and climbed at that speed. Iflew around to get a feel for slow > speed handling and found it stalled at 40mph dropping the right wing. Using > flaps (yes my FSII has flaps) yeilded only slightly slower (38)stall with a > more pronounced wing drop. Flaps were not used for remainder of flights. > Landing approach was done at 55mph which setup a reasonable decent. > Reaching around 50" I added power to arrest decent, with a flare around > 10' settle to runway and BAM! right up on my nose. [Rolling Eyes] Lesson > learned is make sure you put your size 10 heels ! > in front of the heel brakes, not in front where comfort dictates. No > real damage other than to pride and bent antena and road rash on cowl. As > of yesterday I've put in 8 hrs of time with a mix of landings from dropping > in and respectable. the gear may have suffer from some. Any way to > straightren aluminum gear? Whats the options and possible vendors? ...Bob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473932#473932 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:45 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flights Completed! The gear can be straightened. Most people use a cheap hydraulic press (Harbor Freight) or a home made jug with a hydraulic jack. Some guys get a set of spare legs from Kolb. Others have made steel legs, but if you are still learning, the aluminum ones put less shock on the airframe in case of a goof. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 10/29/17, RoHam wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: First Flights Completed! No real damage other than to pride and bent antena and road rash on cowl. As of yesterday I've put in 8 hrs of time with a mix of landings from dropping in and respectable. the gear may have suffer from some. Any way to straightren aluminum gear? Whats the options and possible vendors? ...Bob ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:12 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! From: "Richard Pike" Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.html In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can straighten it for about $20 if it is not badly bent. Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top set is from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I would consider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight bends and could easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. The bottom one is unbent. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473937#473937 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060418_medium_140.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) From: Charlie England Looking at Richard's pics of gear legs; has anyone ever made a set of steel legs that don't have any taper? In the RV-x world, the Harmon Rockets use titanium legs with no taper, but supposedly, titanium's flexing characteristics are different enough from steel that they can get away with no taper. Making an axle adapter to fit the fatter leg cross section wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm not sure about transferring extra impulse load directly into the gear sockets if using non-tapered gear. Thanks, Charlie On 10/29/2017 12:52 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. > https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.html > In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can straighten it for about $20 if it is not badly bent. > > Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top set is from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I would consider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight bends and could easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. The bottom one is unbent. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473937#473937 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060418_medium_140.jpg > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) From: jpfitt Hello to fellow Kolb owners. Name is John from Northern California, just completed a FS ll and have been reading all your great comments about building and flying for about 2 yrs. while finishing my project. I'll be asking for lots of advice. Listening in on the gear leg issue...I was wondering if any sort of bungee cord arrangement like those found on bush planes could absorb some hard landings, maybe a spring steel leg? ( Maybe steal the front shock struts off my wife's car) Sent from my iP > On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > > Looking at Richard's pics of gear legs; has anyone ever made a set of steel legs that don't have any taper? In the RV-x world, the Harmon Rockets use titanium legs with no taper, but supposedly, titanium's flexing characteristics are different enough from steel that they can get away with no taper. Making an axle adapter to fit the fatter leg cross section wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm not sure about transferring extra impulse load directly into the gear sockets if using non-tapered gear. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > >> On 10/29/2017 12:52 PM, Richard Pike wrote: >> >> Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. >> https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.html >> In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can straighten it for about $20 if it is not badly bent. >> >> Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top set is from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I would consider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight bends and could easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. The bottom one is unbent. >> >> -------- >> Richard Pike >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> >> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473937#473937 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060418_medium_140.jpg >> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:33 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) Yes, sir. We have been flying Kolbs off heat treated 4130 steel legs for more than 30 years. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jpfitt Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) Hello to fellow Kolb owners. Name is John from Northern California, just completed a FS ll and have been reading all your great comments about building and flying for about 2 yrs. while finishing my project. I'll be asking for lots of advice. Listening in on the gear leg issue...I was wondering if any sort of bungee cord arrangement like those found on bush planes could absorb some hard landings, maybe a spring steel leg? ( Maybe steal the front shock struts off my wife's car) Sent from my iP > On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > --> > > Looking at Richard's pics of gear legs; has anyone ever made a set of steel legs that don't have any taper? In the RV-x world, the Harmon Rockets use titanium legs with no taper, but supposedly, titanium's flexing characteristics are different enough from steel that they can get away with no taper. Making an axle adapter to fit the fatter leg cross section wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm not sure about transferring extra impulse load directly into the gear sockets if using non-tapered gear. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > >> On 10/29/2017 12:52 PM, Richard Pike wrote: >> --> >> >> Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. >> https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.html >> In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can straighten it for about $20 if it is not badly bent. >> >> Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top set is from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I would consider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight bends and could easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. The bottom one is unbent. >> >> -------- >> Richard Pike >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> >> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473937#473937 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060418_medium_140.jpg >> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:30 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: FW: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck [mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:39 PM Subject: FW: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) To answer Charlies's question, yes, there are a lot of straight 4130 Kolb g ear legs out there. My Brother Jim and I fabricated a set of non-tapered 4130 legs for my origi nal Firestar in 1987. That is all I have flown on since. In fact, we used parts of the FS legs to build legs for my current MKIII in 1991. Don't know of any other Kolbs with steel legs back then. Homer and Dennis were interested at the time. Just another trick Jim and John Hauck came up with. ;-) Old Kolb designed a tapered solid 4130 leg that was not near t he performer ours was/is. New Kolb came up with non-tapered legs with a be nd to get the nose of the Kolbs higher and in a better 3 point stance. John Bickham designed and built the first set of non-tapered 4130 legs with bend for his MKIII, before New Kolb copied his design, or should I say ca me up with legs just like John B's. ;-) Should be lots of info on the steel legs in the Kolb List Archives. I'll see if I can find a photo of the FS and MKIII legs and attach. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) Looking at Richard's pics of gear legs; has anyone ever made a set of steel legs that don't have any taper? In the RV-x world, the Harmon Rockets use titanium legs with no taper, but supposedly, titanium's flexing characteris tics are different enough from steel that they can get away with no taper. Making an axle adapter to fit the fatter leg cross section wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm not sure about transferring extra impulse load directl y into the gear sockets if using non-tapered gear. Thanks, Charlie On 10/29/2017 12:52 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > --> > > Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. > https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.html > In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can straighten i t for about $20 if it is not badly bent. > > Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top set is from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I would co nsider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight bends and co uld easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. The bottom one is u nbent. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473937#473937 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060418_medium_140.jpg > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) From: jpfitt ....So the aluminum legs will sooner or later become a lost cause? Sent from my iPad > On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:33 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Yes, sir. We have been flying Kolbs off heat treated 4130 steel legs for > more than 30 years. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jpfitt > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:58 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) > > > Hello to fellow Kolb owners. Name is John from Northern California, just > completed a FS ll and have been reading all your great comments about > building and flying for about 2 yrs. while finishing my project. I'll be > asking for lots of advice. > Listening in on the gear leg issue...I was wondering if any sort of bungee > cord arrangement like those found on bush planes could absorb some hard > landings, maybe a spring steel leg? ( Maybe steal the front shock struts off > my wife's car) > > Sent from my iP > >> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Charlie England > wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Looking at Richard's pics of gear legs; has anyone ever made a set of > steel legs that don't have any taper? In the RV-x world, the Harmon Rockets > use titanium legs with no taper, but supposedly, titanium's flexing > characteristics are different enough from steel that they can get away with > no taper. Making an axle adapter to fit the fatter leg cross section > wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm not sure about transferring extra > impulse load directly into the gear sockets if using non-tapered gear. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charlie >> >>> On 10/29/2017 12:52 PM, Richard Pike wrote: >>> --> >>> >>> Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. >>> https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.html >>> In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can straighten > it for about $20 if it is not badly bent. >>> >>> Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top set is > from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I would > consider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight bends and > could easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. The bottom one is > unbent. >>> >>> -------- >>> Richard Pike >>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >>> >>> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473937#473937 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Attachments: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060418_medium_140.jpg >>> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Twinstar MKII From: "Mark K" Good afternoon Kolbers. I have a Twinstar MKII that I am redoing and looking for some pointers on the aft cage tubing bending and fastening. I have scoured the build manual and plans and photo build manual and don't find any details on the shape to bend the tubing to. Riveting and gusseting is described but nothing on shaping. Any and all input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. -------- Mark Twinstar MKII Great Bend, PA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473945#473945 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:00 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) I think so. The reason we "lost" 7075 alum legs 30 years ago. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jpfitt Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) ....So the aluminum legs will sooner or later become a lost cause? Sent from my iPad > On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:33 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Yes, sir. We have been flying Kolbs off heat treated 4130 steel legs > for more than 30 years. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jpfitt > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:58 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg > question) > > > Hello to fellow Kolb owners. Name is John from Northern California, > just completed a FS ll and have been reading all your great comments > about building and flying for about 2 yrs. while finishing my project. > I'll be asking for lots of advice. > Listening in on the gear leg issue...I was wondering if any sort of > bungee cord arrangement like those found on bush planes could absorb > some hard landings, maybe a spring steel leg? ( Maybe steal the front > shock struts off my wife's car) > > Sent from my iP > >> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Charlie England > wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Looking at Richard's pics of gear legs; has anyone ever made a set of > steel legs that don't have any taper? In the RV-x world, the Harmon > Rockets use titanium legs with no taper, but supposedly, titanium's > flexing characteristics are different enough from steel that they can > get away with no taper. Making an axle adapter to fit the fatter leg > cross section wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm not sure about > transferring extra impulse load directly into the gear sockets if using non-tapered gear. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charlie >> >>> On 10/29/2017 12:52 PM, Richard Pike wrote: >>> --> >>> >>> Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. >>> https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.htm >>> l In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can >>> straighten > it for about $20 if it is not badly bent. >>> >>> Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top >>> set is > from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I > would consider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight > bends and could easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. > The bottom one is unbent. >>> >>> -------- >>> Richard Pike >>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >>> >>> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473937#473937 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Attachments: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060418_medium_140.jpg >>> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:18 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) I think so. The reason we "lost" 7075 alum legs 30 years ago. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jpfitt Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) ....So the aluminum legs will sooner or later become a lost cause? Sent from my iPad > On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:33 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Yes, sir. We have been flying Kolbs off heat treated 4130 steel legs > for more than 30 years. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jpfitt > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:58 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg > question) > > > Hello to fellow Kolb owners. Name is John from Northern California, > just completed a FS ll and have been reading all your great comments > about building and flying for about 2 yrs. while finishing my project. > I'll be asking for lots of advice. > Listening in on the gear leg issue...I was wondering if any sort of > bungee cord arrangement like those found on bush planes could absorb > some hard landings, maybe a spring steel leg? ( Maybe steal the front > shock struts off my wife's car) > > Sent from my iP > >> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Charlie England > wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Looking at Richard's pics of gear legs; has anyone ever made a set of > steel legs that don't have any taper? In the RV-x world, the Harmon > Rockets use titanium legs with no taper, but supposedly, titanium's > flexing characteristics are different enough from steel that they can > get away with no taper. Making an axle adapter to fit the fatter leg > cross section wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm not sure about > transferring extra impulse load directly into the gear sockets if using non-tapered gear. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charlie >> >>> On 10/29/2017 12:52 PM, Richard Pike wrote: >>> --> >>> >>> Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. >>> https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.htm >>> l In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can >>> straighten > it for about $20 if it is not badly bent. >>> >>> Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top >>> set is > from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I > would consider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight > bends and could easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. > The bottom one is unbent. >>> >>> -------- >>> Richard Pike >>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >>> >>> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473937#473937 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Attachments: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060418_medium_140.jpg >>> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: FW: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) From: Charlie England Thanks, John, for both the info & the pics. Getting the nose (& wing angle of attack) up is the primary reason I was asking. Much easier to fab a set of legs without taper. I even looked at just making them longer, but to get any height benefit, they'd need to be quite a bit longer on the old Mk I; the angle is fairly shallow compared to the pics you posted. BTW, any of you guys that are 'in the neighborhood' of Jackson MS next weekend are welcome to our annual Pumpkin Drop here at Slobovia Outernational (MS71). I sent a flyer to the list about a month ago, but if you missed it, just write me off-list for flying and/or driving directions. Early forecast is for rain, but we all know about forecasts. :-) Charlie ceengland7@gmail.com On 10/29/2017 3:46 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hauck [mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:39 PM > To: 'kolb-list@matronics.com' > Subject: FW: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) > > > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) > > To answer Charlies's question, yes, there are a lot of straight 4130 Kolb gear legs out there. > > My Brother Jim and I fabricated a set of non-tapered 4130 legs for my original Firestar in 1987. That is all I have flown on since. In fact, we used parts of the FS legs to build legs for my current MKIII in 1991. > > Don't know of any other Kolbs with steel legs back then. Homer and Dennis were interested at the time. Just another trick Jim and John Hauck came up with. ;-) Old Kolb designed a tapered solid 4130 leg that was not near the performer ours was/is. New Kolb came up with non-tapered legs with a bend to get the nose of the Kolbs higher and in a better 3 point stance. > > John Bickham designed and built the first set of non-tapered 4130 legs with bend for his MKIII, before New Kolb copied his design, or should I say came up with legs just like John B's. ;-) > > Should be lots of info on the steel legs in the Kolb List Archives. > > I'll see if I can find a photo of the FS and MKIII legs and attach. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 2:29 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) > > > Looking at Richard's pics of gear legs; has anyone ever made a set of steel legs that don't have any taper? In the RV-x world, the Harmon Rockets use titanium legs with no taper, but supposedly, titanium's flexing characteristics are different enough from steel that they can get away with no taper. Making an axle adapter to fit the fatter leg cross section wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm not sure about transferring extra impulse load directly into the gear sockets if using non-tapered gear. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > On 10/29/2017 12:52 PM, Richard Pike wrote: >> --> >> >> Wait until Harbor Freight puts this on sale, fix it yourself. >> https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.html >> In the meanwhile, take the leg to any machine shop, they can straighten it for about $20 if it is not badly bent. >> >> Attached is my collection of old Firestar/FSII gear legs. The top set is from the original Firestar from which we built the FF clone, and I would consider them un-straightenable. The next 3 down all have slight bends and could easily be fixed with a press in just a few minutes. The bottom one is unbent. >> >> -------- >> Richard Pike >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> >> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:44 PM PST US From: Richard Girard Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flights Completed! Bob, As Bill said, yes they can be straightened, but they will be a bit softer each time and thus easier to bend. Make some saddles out of PVC pipe to protect the leg from getting a ding when straightening and have at it with Mr. Hydraulic Press. When Travis was at Kolb he was the best at supplying answers to Kolb questions even though he didn't fly. I told him my problems with landings and his advice was to wheel it on at first rather than trying for a three point landing, When you can wheel it on consistently then start slowing it down a bit until you find the sweet spot where she just sets down on three and rolls out. It's like riding a bike; once you get it, you'll always be able to roll it right on every time. It just takes a little practice. Congratulations, sounds like you're having fun with your Kolb. I may be a little prejudiced but I think it's the best flying fun there is. Blue skies, Rick On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 12:23 PM, william sullivan wrote: > williamtsullivan@att.net> > > The gear can be straightened. Most people use a cheap hydraulic press > (Harbor Freight) or a home made jug with a hydraulic jack. Some guys get a > set of spare legs from Kolb. Others have made steel legs, but if you are > still learning, the aluminum ones put less shock on the airframe in case of > a goof. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, > Ct. > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 10/29/17, RoHam wrote: > > Subject: Kolb-List: First Flights Completed! > No real damage > other than to pride and bent antena and road rash on > cowl. As of yesterday I've put in 8 hrs of time with a mix > of landings from dropping in and respectable. the gear may > have suffer from some. Any way to straightren aluminum gear? > Whats the options and possible vendors? ...Bob > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flights Completed! From: Charlie England I've straightened the tapered steel legs from an RV-4 in a HF press using soft pine 2x4s as pads. One under the ram, and the leg resting across a pair of them. With the steel legs, the wood crushes enough to spread the point loads of the ram & support points. Charlie On 10/29/2017 5:42 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > Bob, As Bill said, yes they can be straightened, but they will be a > bit softer each time and thus easier to bend. Make some saddles out of > PVC pipe to protect the leg from getting a ding when straightening and > have at it with Mr. Hydraulic Press. > When Travis was at Kolb he was the best at supplying answers to Kolb > questions even though he didn't fly. I told him my problems with > landings and his advice was to wheel it on at first rather than trying > for a three point landing, When you can wheel it on consistently then > start slowing it down a bit until you find the sweet spot where she > just sets down on three and rolls out. It's like riding a bike; once > you get it, you'll always be able to roll it right on every time. It > just takes a little practice. > Congratulations, sounds like you're having fun with your Kolb. I may > be a little prejudiced but I think it's the best flying fun there is. > > Blue skies, > Rick > > > On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 12:23 PM, william sullivan > > wrote: > > > > > The gear can be straightened. Most people use a cheap hydraulic > press (Harbor Freight) or a home made jug with a hydraulic jack. > Some guys get a set of spare legs from Kolb. Others have made > steel legs, but if you are still learning, the aluminum ones put > less shock on the airframe in case of a goof. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 10/29/17, RoHam > wrote: > > Subject: Kolb-List: First Flights Completed! > No real damage > other than to pride and bent antena and road rash on > cowl. As of yesterday I've put in 8 hrs of time with a mix > of landings from dropping in and respectable. the gear may > have suffer from some. Any way to straightren aluminum gear? > Whats the options and possible vendors? ...Bob > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.