---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/15/17: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 07:34 AM - Reminder (Matt Dralle) 1. 07:59 AM - Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy (Dan Breitigam) 2. 02:39 PM - Re: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy (Richard Pike) 3. 03:48 PM - Re: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy (Gary Aman) 4. 03:51 PM - Re: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy (Dan Breitigam) 5. 06:07 PM - Re: Wing support dolly (woody) 6. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy (Wayne Schneider) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:41 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Reminder Dear Listers, A quick reminder that November is the annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are covered solely through your Contributions during this time of the year. *Your* personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running for another great year! Use a credit card or your PayPal account here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by sending a personal check to: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:16 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy From: "Dan Breitigam" Hello all, I am getting ready to test fly my Mark III Xtra after restoration and new engine (1.3 liter Geo Metro 100 HP). Weight and balance shows it is barely in the envelope on the tail heavy side. Question 1: Is it safe to fly? Question 2: What arm do folks use for the distance to datum for pilot/passenger and 19 gal fuel tank? Question 3: Does anyone carry extra nose weight when flying solo? Thanx! Dan in Chattanooga Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475051#475051 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:38 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy From: "Richard Pike" As long as it is within the envelope, it is safe to fly, however, some of the questions you ask make me wonder how you calculated your weight and balance. (no offense, this is not an easy topic, and it is like using MS Windows: there are many ways to do one task) Check out this link: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html Scroll down until you get to the Gen-U-Wine Kolb MKIII W&B pages. The CG of people is determined at the belly button. (seriously) So your moment arm from that point to what you think is the center of weight of your gas tank is what you would use for the difference between full fuel/empty fuel, solo or 2 up, and all permutations of that particular equation. I do not carry nose weight, but if I lose another 30 pounds I will need it if I fly solo. (LOL) -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and Grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475081#475081 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:13 PM PST US From: Gary Aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy At 175# solo my mk3 is at the aft limit Fine in smooth air but when bumpy it wallows like passing over the wake of a boat then back to stable. I have about 40 # of shot in a plastic and denim bag and the Claw tie downs secured to rings on pass side floor which cures the handling. Fuel affects CG almost none Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Dan Breitigam wrote: > > all, ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:48 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy From: "Dan Breitigam" I checked out the link you recommended Richard but the shape of the tank I got from Bryan is not square like in the plans. It is triangular or more accurately a trapezoid shape. So the center of mass is not intuitive. Therefore I dont know how to determine the arm length to use in the formula which I have laid out in Excell. Of course I could weigh it with full fuel but I just wanted to calculate W&B with my Excell file. Thanx, Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475083#475083 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Wing support dolly From: "woody" I don't have plans, but I have a fine boom dolly that I put together a few years back. I don't have a picture available but will take some, along with measurements when I get over to my hanger, tomorrow I hope. 8) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475084#475084 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flying Mk 3 Xtra tail heavy From: Wayne Schneider You can calculate the arm of the fuel by weighing the plane twice. Once with it empty and again with full fuel. Below is a made up example. The result is that the fuel is at an arm of 13.36. I can send you an Excel spreadsheet to do this if you email me off line. Left Main Right Main Tail wheel Datum distance 9 9 195 Empty Weights 222.42 224.92 60.4 507.74 Total Empty Weight Empty Moment 2001.78 2024.28 11778 15804.06 Total Empty Moment 31.13 Empty Weight C.G. Full Fuel Weights 256 258 62 576 Total Weight Full Fuel Full Fuel Moment 2304 2322 12090 16716 Total Full Fuel Moment 29.02 Full Fuel C.G. Fuel Weight 68.2600000000001 Fuel Moment 911.940000000001 Fuel Arm 13.36 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.