Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:21 AM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (George Helton)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (Robert Lobdell)
3. 08:12 AM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (Rex Rodebush)
4. 09:58 AM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (George Alexander)
5. 10:14 AM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (william sullivan)
6. 11:31 AM - Re: Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (Charlie England)
7. 12:51 PM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (Stuart Harner)
8. 02:32 PM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Robert, as a word of encouragement. To my knowledge, none of us were =9C
builders=9D when we started our projects. One of the nice things about
building a Kolb is you don=99t need fortune to get started. I=99
ve built two and I paid for the kits as I needed them. Kolbs take some time t
o build, but it=99s a great experience. They don=99t require a l
ot of special tools. Just time and patience. When they=99re complete y
ou end up with a great little real airplane. I=99m still flying a Orig
inal Firestar (1986) that took me and a buddy almost 2 years to build. Stil
l flies great and I know what I=99m flying was well built.
George Helton
Firestar, 1986, 377 Rotax
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 5, 2017, at 9:32 PM, Robert Lobdell <robpen5557@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I=99m not a builder but I might be able to do a quick build if it is
nt to involved. I know nothing about building wings and covering. So, was r
eally thinking of used or ready to fly new. I know new is really expensive.
I figured even a firefly would cost close to 30k Then I would have to have
a trailer built. So, can I save a significant amount of money on the Quick
build over the ready to fly? Or should I just buy a used Kolb and forget e
ven trying to buy a new machine?
> Robert Lobdell
> Waskom, Texas
>
> Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first!
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Thanks. You George. That is good to. Know.
Robert
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first!
> On Dec 6, 2017, at 6:20 AM, George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Robert, as a word of encouragement. To my knowledge, none of us were builders
when we started our projects. One of the nice things about building a Kolb is
you dont need fortune to get started. Ive built two and I paid for the kits as
I needed them. Kolbs take some time to build, but its a great experience. They
dont require a lot of special tools. Just time and patience. When theyre complete
you end up with a great little real airplane. Im still flying a Original
Firestar (1986) that took me and a buddy almost 2 years to build. Still flies
great and I know what Im flying was well built.
> <image1.jpeg>
>
> George Helton
> Firestar, 1986, 377 Rotax
> 14GDH
> Mesick, Michigan
> gdhelton@gmail.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 9:32 PM, Robert Lobdell <robpen5557@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Im not a builder but I might be able to do a quick build if it isnt to involved.
I know nothing about building wings and covering. So, was really thinking
of used or ready to fly new. I know new is really expensive. I figured even
a firefly would cost close to 30k Then I would have to have a trailer built.
So, can I save a significant amount of money on the Quick build over the ready
to fly? Or should I just buy a used Kolb and forget even trying to buy a
new machine?
>> Robert Lobdell
>> Waskom, Texas
>>
>> Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first!
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Even with a quick build you are still going to put in a fairly large amount of
time building; and it's going to cost more.
Building my Xtra was a great experience but I would never do it again. You can
buy a good used homebuilt now for a fraction of the cost of the kit alone. If
I wanted another plane that's the way I would go. A major downside is that
you will have to get an A&P or the previous builder to make modifications or do
your annual to be legal.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476133#476133
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Rex Rodebush wrote:
> , , , , S N I P , , ,
>
> You can buy a good used homebuilt now for a fraction of the cost of the kit alone.
If I wanted another plane that's the way I would go. A major downside
is that you will have to get an A&P or the previous builder to make modifications
or do your annual to be legal.
Unless you are fortunate enough to find an Experimental - Light Sport Aircraft,
(E-LSA). In that case, you can take a 16 hour course, for a few hundred dollars,
and do it yourself.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476181#476181
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Robert- The single most important thing about building, or doing a re-build,
is to have enough room to do it. Very little is needed in terms of tools. Mostly
a drill, a rivet gun, and a tape measure. Scissors! Cheap paint brushes!
And lots of ventilation when you do the covering. The big thing is to be meticulous,
and expect to make mistakes.
Also, are you going ultralight (Part 103), LSA, or a little heavier?
I'd locate some local Kolb owners, so you can see up close what they look like,
and how they are built. last I knew, several Kolb builders had great web sites
about the building and modifications of their Kolbs. Jack Hart had a great
site, for super ultralight Firefly construction.
Bill Sullivan
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 12/5/17, Robert Lobdell <robpen5557@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Quick build verses ready to fly
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 9:32 PM
Lobdell <robpen5557@gmail.com>
Im not a builder but I might be able
to do a quick build if it isnt to involved. I know
nothing about building wings and covering. So, was
really thinking of used or ready to fly new. I know
new is really expensive. I figured even a firefly
would cost close to 30k Then I would have to have a trailer
built. So, can I save a significant amount of money on
the Quick build over the ready to fly? Or should I
just buy a used Kolb and forget even trying to buy a new
machine?
Robert Lobdell
Waskom, Texas
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Small but significant correction to that. While you do need the
signature of either the "repairman's certificate" holder or an A&P for
the annual condition inspection, anyone, even a monkey or a random stray
dog, can do any and all maintenance/repairs/modifications. As long as
the dog can make his mark in the log book to sign off the work (or you
can make yours, if you hire the dog), it's legal.
Charlie
(no Holiday Inn last night, but repairing/maintaining/modifying
purchased homebuilts since 1992)
On 12/6/2017 10:11 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>
> Even with a quick build you are still going to put in a fairly large amount of
time building; and it's going to cost more.
>
> Building my Xtra was a great experience but I would never do it again. You can
buy a good used homebuilt now for a fraction of the cost of the kit alone.
If I wanted another plane that's the way I would go. A major downside is that
you will have to get an A&P or the previous builder to make modifications or
do your annual to be legal.
>
>
---
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Message 7
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Subject: | Quick build verses ready to fly |
Robert,
First question to ask yourself is what type of flying do you intend to do? That
will determine what size of Kolb you will want.
If you want to go the Part 103 route, the Firefly is for you. The factory will
do a ready to fly $$$$ (it will be built right and beautiful too). Next step down
to $$$ would be the quick build kit. Factory rigged and nearly ready to cover.
Then there is the next to lowest cost of the basic kit. Lowest cost is to
buy a used aircraft. These two have a wide price range depending on age, hours,
condition, etc.
My choice was a quick build Firefly. I had some experience with covering and painting
so that was not intimidating to me. Personal reasons for me were:
I like making things but was not too sure about working with aluminum tubing (turns
out it is easy)
I didn't want to put in the extra time to make all the parts, I wanted to get flying.
To me the price jump from basic kit to quick build was worth the time savings and
peace of mind with factory rigging. But the price jump from quick built to
ready to fly was not worth the extra $$ because I knew I could do the cover and
paint. And I like doing that kind of stuff.
I had a blast finishing the quick build kit. When I was done I had my own brand
new airplane (er, air vehicle - Part 103) that has virtually no regulations
on it. If something needs to be done, I don't have to look for someone else to
work on it. :)
If you like to make things and have more time than money, a kit is the way to go.
If you would rather fly than build you have to decide how much you are willing
to spend and then pick either a used flyable or a factory ready to fly.
If you are not in a hurry watching the used market will definitely save some cash.
When I decided to go with a Firefly there wasn't a used one listed anywhere.
Read through the archives on this list, you will learn a lot of stuff no matter
what you decide to do.
If you are interested in seeing what it took to do my quick build, have a look
here:
http://harnerfarm.net/serenity/serenity.html
If you get a chance to get to Oshkosh, you can learn all kinds of things in the
workshops, including covering. That might help you make a decision about building.
A trailer for storage is almost an afterthought. You can buy new or used that will
be almost ready to use. You can build one from the axles up, or do a conversion.
I bought a used 30' camper trailer and turned it into a toy hauler for
the Firefly. Same formula, skills/time/money.
Stuart
Im not a builder but I might be able
to do a quick build if it isnt to involved. I know nothing about building wings
and covering. So, was really thinking of used or ready to fly new. I know
new is really expensive. I figured even a firefly would cost close to 30k
Then I would have to have a trailer built. So, can I save a significant amount
of money on the Quick build over the ready to fly? Or should I just buy
a used Kolb and forget even trying to buy a new machine?
Robert Lobdell
Waskom, Texas
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Lots of good information on here, so I have only a little to add. Kolb wing, ailerons,
and tail feathers have to be the easiest and simplest aircraft structures
yet invented. When I bought my MKIII kit, the only quick build parts were
the ribs: pre-made.
Bought two used 36" interior doors, built a 14' long table out of 2x6's with the
doors as the tops, and lag bolts in the bottoms of the table legs so I could
keep it perfectly level. Made a full length shelf underneath to store stuff.
Make yourself a handfull of 1"x 2" wood blocks with holes through them, use phillips
head sheet metal screws to screw the blocks to the door over the full size
plans that you'll draw out for the tail pieces. Block all the tubes in place,
mark, cut to length. Lay them back over the plans between the locator blocks,
rivet the gussets on, turn it over, rinse, repeat. Tail is done. Seriously,
it really is that easy.
Wings? Slide the ribs onto that big spar with everything laying on that long table.
Measure, adjust, square it up, screw your little blocks down to keep the
ribs in position, secure the leading & trailing edges tight in place with bungee
straps. If the table is flat the wing will not be twisted. Start drilling
holes and sticking in the clecoes. (Man's best friend) Started working on the
first wing on my first day off, both of them were assembled when I went back to
work.
I was still working a 40 hour week when the MKIII kit arrived, 3 months later it
was on the gear in the driveway and several friends were helping me rig it so
we could drill the holes for the main spar clevis pins, and I'm not any better
of a builder than average. (I did have prior home building experience) Took
another 18 months to complete, but that's always the case: the last 10% of building
the airplane takes 90% of your time.
Do you like making stuff and are you handy with tools? Get a kit. Are you OCD and
a perfectionist? Get something already built and tweak it, otherwise you'll
spend years building when you could be flying.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and Grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476188#476188
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