Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (Richard Girard)
2. 06:46 AM - MkII....project... (herbgh)
3. 08:09 AM - Re: MkII....project... (George Helton)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: MkII....project... (SugarDad)
5. 09:00 AM - Re: MkII....project... (George Helton)
6. 09:50 AM - Re: MkII....project... (SugarDad)
7. 10:00 AM - Re: MkII....project... (Mark K)
8. 10:16 AM - Re: MkII....project... (B Young)
9. 10:27 AM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (Rex Rodebush)
10. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (Wayne Schneider)
11. 12:06 PM - Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (George Alexander)
12. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Quick build verses ready to fly (B Young)
13. 04:34 PM - Hirth 3002 (kenw)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Rex, You do not have to be an AI to do an annual on an experimental amateur
built aircraft, all it takes is an A & P ticket. You don't have to have ANY
ticket at all to modify, maintain, or repair an EAB, anyone can. Don't know
if this will change your thinking on building vs. buying but you at least
have the correct information.
Rick GIrard
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avg.com
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m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Even with a quick build you are still going to put in a fairly large
> amount of time building; and it's going to cost more.
>
> Building my Xtra was a great experience but I would never do it again.
> You can buy a good used homebuilt now for a fraction of the cost of the k
it
> alone. If I wanted another plane that's the way I would go. A major
> downside is that you will have to get an A&P or the previous builder to
> make modifications or do your annual to be legal.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476133#476133
>
>
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>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
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| Subject: | MkII....project... |
All
I have located a MkII project. My experience has been with MkIII,Fireflys and
a Slingshot..
Never flew the Slingshot and likely that was a good thing...:-)
Wondering what the experiences of the list are with the MkII ? I know it is
built with 5 inch tubes...and has the rib in common with the Firefly,Firestar...
It comes with no engine which suits me to a "T". since I have a low time 503
with C box. and of all things....a brand new 532 with electric start...
Could not believe the "new" part of the 532 but when I yanked the heads...no
carbon to be found...green dot on the pistons...Amazing!! Front and rear seals
and likely good to go..My MkIII had a 532 and the hours I put on it were a non
event... Crank and bearing rust would be a concern and would need inspecting...
The MkII would give me some trade bait for another Firefly or Firestar...which
is what I really want... Herb
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476205#476205
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: MkII....project... |
MKII was a great airplane in its day. I built one and flew the heck out of i
t for about 4 1/2 years back the early 90=99s. Handling was a bit slug
gish, but it was originally designed to be a trainer. I had a 503 single car
b which seemed adequate for flying in Southern California heat. I did a lot o
f thermalIng and high desert flying with it. I personally thought it a great
airplane . The MKIII was a much prettier unit and I=99m sure had stro
nger marketability as time has proven. The MKII was not very roomy. I was th
inking that with a little cage modification that it would have made a cool f
at man single seater. But, the original Firestar is not very roomy either, w
hich is what I still fly. I=99m not sure the MKII would be good tradin
g material these days though? Their age has be considered. That=99s ju
st my two cents worth. George
George Helton
1986 Firestar, 377 Rotax
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 7, 2017, at 9:45 AM, herbgh <herbgh@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
> All
> I have located a MkII project. My experience has been with MkIII,Firefly
s and a Slingshot..
>
> Never flew the Slingshot and likely that was a good thing...:-)
>
> Wondering what the experiences of the list are with the MkII ? I know i
t is built with 5 inch tubes...and has the rib in common with the Firefly,Fi
restar...
> It comes with no engine which suits me to a "T". since I have a low time 5
03 with C box. and of all things....a brand new 532 with electric start...
> Could not believe the "new" part of the 532 but when I yanked the heads..
.no carbon to be found...green dot on the pistons...Amazing!! Front and rear
seals and likely good to go..My MkIII had a 532 and the hours I put on it w
ere a non event... Crank and bearing rust would be a concern and would need i
nspecting...
> The MkII would give me some trade bait for another Firefly or Firestar.
..which is what I really want... Herb
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476205#476205
>
>
>
>
>
>
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=========
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: MkII....project... |
I was pretty good in my day too! :-) I think it would suit me at this
time...Seems that the market is thin for Fireflies and Firestars;
rebuilders and projects...kits...
I watched several vids on Youtube and decided as you that it would
make a good single seater with some mods... I know the pitfalls of
making mods....Turning the airbike wing from a full span aileron to an
outboard one with a torque tube actuation and counterbalances took as
much time as building the wing...!!
The seller is thinking trades and meeting me half way...all of which
is very positive this time of year...
I am correct that the wing is the same as the Firestar one and
two? Herb
On 12/07/2017 09:52 AM, George Helton wrote:
> MKII was a great airplane in its day. I built one and flew the heck out of it
for about 4 1/2 years back the early 90s. Handling was a bit sluggish, but it
was originally designed to be a trainer. I had a 503 single carb which seemed
adequate for flying in Southern California heat. I did a lot of thermalIng and
high desert flying with it. I personally thought it a great airplane . The MKIII
was a much prettier unit and Im sure had stronger marketability as time has
proven. The MKII was not very roomy. I was thinking that with a little cage
modification that it would have made a cool fat man single seater. But, the original
Firestar is not very roomy either, which is what I still fly. Im not sure
the MKII would be good trading material these days though? Their age has be
considered. Thats just my two cents worth. George
>
>
> George Helton
> 1986 Firestar, 377 Rotax
> 14GDH
> Mesick, Michigan
> gdhelton@gmail.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 9:45 AM, herbgh <herbgh@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> All
>> I have located a MkII project. My experience has been with MkIII,Fireflys
and a Slingshot..
>>
>> Never flew the Slingshot and likely that was a good thing...:-)
>>
>> Wondering what the experiences of the list are with the MkII ? I know it
is built with 5 inch tubes...and has the rib in common with the Firefly,Firestar...
>> It comes with no engine which suits me to a "T". since I have a low time 503
with C box. and of all things....a brand new 532 with electric start...
>> Could not believe the "new" part of the 532 but when I yanked the heads...no
carbon to be found...green dot on the pistons...Amazing!! Front and rear seals
and likely good to go..My MkIII had a 532 and the hours I put on it were a
non event... Crank and bearing rust would be a concern and would need inspecting...
>> The MkII would give me some trade bait for another Firefly or Firestar...which
is what I really want... Herb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476205#476205
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
>>
>>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: MkII....project... |
I can=99t say that Firestar 2 used the same ribs or not? The original
Firestar and Twinstar series which includes the MKII did. The only real diff
erence that I can remember was that the wing had two more ribs per side to a
ccommodate the larger wing span.
The modification I wanted to do was to add a tube either side of the center t
ubes in the cockpit . Remove to the tube between the seats. It would entail r
ecovering the main cage. I would have used the spaces between the new seatin
g area and sides as cool storage compartments. It might=99ve worked. G
eorge
George Helton
1986 Firestar, 377 Rotax
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 7, 2017, at 11:32 AM, SugarDad <herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> I was pretty good in my day too! :-) I think it would suit me at this t
ime...Seems that the market is thin for Fireflies and Firestars; rebuilders a
nd projects...kits...
>
> I watched several vids on Youtube and decided as you that it would make
a good single seater with some mods... I know the pitfalls of making mods..
..Turning the airbike wing from a full span aileron to an outboard one with a
torque tube actuation and counterbalances took as much time as building the
wing...!!
> The seller is thinking trades and meeting me half way...all of which is v
ery positive this time of year...
> I am correct that the wing is the same as the Firestar one and two? H
erb
>
>> On 12/07/2017 09:52 AM, George Helton wrote:
>> MKII was a great airplane in its day. I built one and flew the heck out o
f it for about 4 1/2 years back the early 90=99s. Handling was a bit s
luggish, but it was originally designed to be a trainer. I had a 503 single c
arb which seemed adequate for flying in Southern California heat. I did a lo
t of thermalIng and high desert flying with it. I personally thought it a gr
eat airplane . The MKIII was a much prettier unit and I=99m sure had s
tronger marketability as time has proven. The MKII was not very roomy. I was
thinking that with a little cage modification that it would have made a coo
l fat man single seater. But, the original Firestar is not very roomy either
, which is what I still fly. I=99m not sure the MKII would be good tra
ding material these days though? Their age has be considered. That=99s
just my two cents worth. George
>>
>>
>> George Helton
>> 1986 Firestar, 377 Rotax
>> 14GDH
>> Mesick, Michigan
>> gdhelton@gmail.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 9:45 AM, herbgh <herbgh@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All
>>>> I have located a MkII project. My experience has been with MkIII,Fire
flys and a Slingshot..
>>>>
>>>> Never flew the Slingshot and likely that was a good thing...:-)
>>>>
>>>> Wondering what the experiences of the list are with the MkII ? I kn
ow it is built with 5 inch tubes...and has the rib in common with the Firefl
y,Firestar...
>>>> It comes with no engine which suits me to a "T". since I have a low ti
me 503 with C box. and of all things....a brand new 532 with electric start.
..
>>>> Could not believe the "new" part of the 532 but when I yanked the head
s...no carbon to be found...green dot on the pistons...Amazing!! Front and r
ear seals and likely good to go..My MkIII had a 532 and the hours I put on i
t were a non event... Crank and bearing rust would be a concern and would ne
ed inspecting...
>>>> The MkII would give me some trade bait for another Firefly or Firest
ar...which is what I really want... Herb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476205#476205
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ========================
===========
>>> ========================
===========
>>> ========================
===========
>>> ========================
===========
>>> ========================
===========
>>>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: MkII....project... |
I know that the Ultrastar rib is the same...so likely all are the same
til the 6 inch spar...of the MkIII,Kolbra and Slingshot...
By the way...wondering if anyone has tried the cub airfoil or the
Modified airfoil of the N3 Pup/J3 Kitten or Carlson Sparrow on a
Kolb...Mary Carlson can sell you spars and ribs for about the same as
two spar tubes.. More work however with drag and anti drag wires and
cross bracing... My N3 pup was the best flyer of all of my birds.. It
is sitting in a house trailer , behind my tobacco barn...waiting for the
mood to strike.. and for me to add a t hangar onto the barn :-)
Interesting that one fellow that I communicated with used a Firestar
wing on his airbike...Herb
by the way...Mary will sell you her business...will make you a
millionaire if you start with two and spend it down to one...:-)
On 12/07/2017 10:59 AM, George Helton wrote:
> I cant say that Firestar 2 used the same ribs or not? The original
> Firestar and Twinstar series which includes the MKII did. The only
> real difference that I can remember was that the wing had two more
> ribs per side to accommodate the larger wing span.
> The modification I wanted to do was to add a tube either side of the
> center tubes in the cockpit . Remove to the tube between the seats. It
> would entail recovering the main cage. I would have used the spaces
> between the new seating area and sides as cool storage compartments.
> It mightve worked. George
>
> George Helton
> 1986 Firestar, 377 Rotax
> 14GDH
> Mesick, Michigan
> gdhelton@gmail.com <mailto:gdhelton@gmail.com>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 7, 2017, at 11:32 AM, SugarDad <herbgh@nctc.com
> <mailto:herbgh@nctc.com>> wrote:
>
>> I was pretty good in my day too! :-) I think it would suit me at
>> this time...Seems that the market is thin for Fireflies and
>> Firestars; rebuilders and projects...kits...
>>
>> I watched several vids on Youtube and decided as you that it would
>> make a good single seater with some mods... I know the pitfalls of
>> making mods....Turning the airbike wing from a full span aileron to
>> an outboard one with a torque tube actuation and counterbalances took
>> as much time as building the wing...!!
>>
>> The seller is thinking trades and meeting me half way...all of
>> which is very positive this time of year...
>>
>> I am correct that the wing is the same as the Firestar one and
>> two? Herb
>>
>>
>> On 12/07/2017 09:52 AM, George Helton wrote:
>>> MKII was a great airplane in its day. I built one and flew the heck out of
it for about 4 1/2 years back the early 90s. Handling was a bit sluggish, but
it was originally designed to be a trainer. I had a 503 single carb which seemed
adequate for flying in Southern California heat. I did a lot of thermalIng
and high desert flying with it. I personally thought it a great airplane . The
MKIII was a much prettier unit and Im sure had stronger marketability as time
has proven. The MKII was not very roomy. I was thinking that with a little cage
modification that it would have made a cool fat man single seater. But, the
original Firestar is not very roomy either, which is what I still fly. Im not
sure the MKII would be good trading material these days though? Their age has
be considered. Thats just my two cents worth. George
>>>
>>>
>>> George Helton
>>> 1986 Firestar, 377 Rotax
>>> 14GDH
>>> Mesick, Michigan
>>> gdhelton@gmail.com
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 9:45 AM, herbgh<herbgh@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All
>>>> I have located a MkII project. My experience has been with MkIII,Fireflys
and a Slingshot..
>>>>
>>>> Never flew the Slingshot and likely that was a good thing...:-)
>>>>
>>>> Wondering what the experiences of the list are with the MkII ? I know
it is built with 5 inch tubes...and has the rib in common with the Firefly,Firestar...
>>>> It comes with no engine which suits me to a "T". since I have a low time
503 with C box. and of all things....a brand new 532 with electric start...
>>>> Could not believe the "new" part of the 532 but when I yanked the heads...no
carbon to be found...green dot on the pistons...Amazing!! Front and rear
seals and likely good to go..My MkIII had a 532 and the hours I put on it were
a non event... Crank and bearing rust would be a concern and would need inspecting...
>>>> The MkII would give me some trade bait for another Firefly or Firestar...which
is what I really want... Herb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476205#476205
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ===================================
>>> ===================================
>>> ===================================
>>> ===================================
>>> ===================================
>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: MkII....project... |
Herb, I am working on a MKII project right now. Things are going fine. I have
been slow on getting progress on the rebuild but moving along now. I can't
wait to have it ready for next spring. There are several others I know from this
list that have had MKII's. All liked them. I have a 503 dual carb, dual
igntion setup for mine. Looking forward to hearing more about your project.
Mark
--------
Mark
Twinstar MKII
Great Bend, PA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476220#476220
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: MkII....project... |
I've thought for a long time that if I were to build another mk3 that I
would do a lot of research into a modification of the wing. What I would
like to know is what difference there would be if I raised the leading edge
a inch and a quarter to a inch and a half. I would keep the bottom of
the ribs flat from the rear spar to 7 inches + or - behind the leading
edge spar. Then a gradual curve up to the raised leading edge. Similar
to the wing profile of the pa18 super cub. What I would like to know is
the drag / lift profile vs angle of attack,,,, Find out if the changes
would affect speed, clime, and glide angles.
If anyone knows please share.
Boyd Young mk3 Utah
On Dec 7, 2017 10:52 AM, "SugarDad" <herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
> I know that the Ultrastar rib is the same...so likely all are the same
> til the 6 inch spar...of the MkIII,Kolbra and Slingshot...
>
> By the way...wondering if anyone has tried the cub airfoil or the
> Modified airfoil of the N3 Pup/J3 Kitten or Carlson Sparrow on a
> Kolb...Mary Carlson can sell you spars and ribs for about the same as tw
o
> spar tubes.. More work however with drag and anti drag wires and cross
> bracing... My N3 pup was the best flyer of all of my birds.. It is
> sitting in a house trailer , behind my tobacco barn...waiting for the moo
d
> to strike.. and for me to add a t hangar onto the barn :-)
>
> Interesting that one fellow that I communicated with used a Firestar
> wing on his airbike...Herb
>
> by the way...Mary will sell you her business...will make you a
> millionaire if you start with two and spend it down to one...:-)
>
>
> On 12/07/2017 10:59 AM, George Helton wrote:
>
> I can=99t say that Firestar 2 used the same ribs or not? The origin
al
> Firestar and Twinstar series which includes the MKII did. The only real
> difference that I can remember was that the wing had two more ribs per si
de
> to accommodate the larger wing span.
> The modification I wanted to do was to add a tube either side of the
> center tubes in the cockpit . Remove to the tube between the seats. It
> would entail recovering the main cage. I would have used the spaces betwe
en
> the new seating area and sides as cool storage compartments. It might
=99ve
> worked. George
>
> George Helton
> 1986 Firestar, 377 Rotax
> 14GDH
> Mesick, Michigan
> gdhelton@gmail.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 7, 2017, at 11:32 AM, SugarDad <herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> I was pretty good in my day too! :-) I think it would suit me at this
> time...Seems that the market is thin for Fireflies and Firestars;
> rebuilders and projects...kits...
>
> I watched several vids on Youtube and decided as you that it would mak
e
> a good single seater with some mods... I know the pitfalls of making
> mods....Turning the airbike wing from a full span aileron to an outboard
> one with a torque tube actuation and counterbalances took as much time as
> building the wing...!!
>
> The seller is thinking trades and meeting me half way...all of which is
> very positive this time of year...
>
> I am correct that the wing is the same as the Firestar one and two?
> Herb
>
> On 12/07/2017 09:52 AM, George Helton wrote:
>
> MKII was a great airplane in its day. I built one and flew the heck out o
f it for about 4 1/2 years back the early 90=99s. Handling was a bit
sluggish, but it was originally designed to be a trainer. I had a 503 singl
e carb which seemed adequate for flying in Southern California heat. I did
a lot of thermalIng and high desert flying with it. I personally thought it
a great airplane . The MKIII was a much prettier unit and I=99m sure
had stronger marketability as time has proven. The MKII was not very roomy
. I was thinking that with a little cage modification that it would have ma
de a cool fat man single seater. But, the original Firestar is not very roo
my either, which is what I still fly. I=99m not sure the MKII would b
e good trading material these days though? Their age has be considered. Tha
t=99s just my two cents worth. George
>
>
> George Helton
> 1986 Firestar, 377 Rotax
> 14GDH
> Mesick, Michigan gdhelton@gmail.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2017, at 9:45 AM, herbgh <herbgh@juno.com> <herbgh@juno.com> wr
ote:
>
com>
>
> All
> I have located a MkII project. My experience has been with MkIII,Firefl
ys and a Slingshot..
>
> Never flew the Slingshot and likely that was a good thing...:-)
>
> Wondering what the experiences of the list are with the MkII ? I know
it is built with 5 inch tubes...and has the rib in common with the Firefly
,Firestar...
> It comes with no engine which suits me to a "T". since I have a low time
503 with C box. and of all things....a brand new 532 with electric start..
.
> Could not believe the "new" part of the 532 but when I yanked the heads.
..no carbon to be found...green dot on the pistons...Amazing!! Front and re
ar seals and likely good to go..My MkIII had a 532 and the hours I put on i
t were a non event... Crank and bearing rust would be a concern and would n
eed inspecting...
> The MkII would give me some trade bait for another Firefly or Firestar
...which is what I really want... Herb
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476205#476205
>
>
> ========================
===========
> ========================
===========
> ========================
===========
> ========================
===========
> ========================
===========
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Rick,
My understanding was that for an EAB the only people that can sign off on the yearly
inspection or 'annual" was the original builder (with a repairman certificate)
or an A&P. Am I wrong?
Rex
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476223#476223
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
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| Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
Radegast wrote:
> If you can register it as an ELSA, then you can take a 16 hour course and do
your own condition inspections.
>
>
> , S , N , I , P ,
>
>
My understanding of ELSA:
Is one of three kinds:
Previously unregistered "ultralight-like" vehicle that meets LSA specifications.
These aircraft were required to be registered before January 31, 2008. However,
the FAA issued exemptions which allowed the certification deadline to be extended
to January 31, 2010 for any "ultralights" that held FAR103 Exemptions
for training. The January 31, 2010 deadline is now past, so no other aircraft
(ultralights / experimentals) will be certificated under this provision.
A kit version of an S-LSA. Note that the January 31, 2008 deadline does not apply
here.
An S-LSA the owner elects to convert to E-LSA so he/she can make modifications
& perform maintenance. Note that the January 31, 2008 deadline does not apply
here.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
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| Subject: | Re: Quick build verses ready to fly |
To my understanding you are correct. And better referred to as a
condition inspection.
Do not archive
Boyd
On Dec 7, 2017 11:29 AM, "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush@gmail.com> wrote:
Rick,
My understanding was that for an EAB the only people that can sign off on
the yearly inspection or 'annual" was the original builder (with a
repairman certificate) or an A&P. Am I wrong?
Rex
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476223#476223
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are there any fellow Mark III Kolbers out there with a Hirth 3002 ?
--------
kenw
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476231#476231
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