Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:07 AM - Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (Dan Breitigam)
2. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (John Hauck)
3. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (Rick Neilsen)
4. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (Larry Cottrell)
5. 11:52 AM - Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (Richard Pike)
6. 12:56 PM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (B Young)
7. 01:56 PM - Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (Dan Breitigam)
8. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) (Bill Berle)
9. 03:14 PM - Re: Hirth 3002 (kenw)
10. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: Hirth 3002 (SugarDad)
11. 07:22 PM - Re: Re: Hirth 3002 (George Helton)
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Subject: | Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) |
So do you guys think the aluminum gear legs on my Mk III Xtra will fail? To gain
a little height I inserted them so they are 4 inches out from what the plans
say. Nervous about that. Havent flown this restoration project yet.
Thanks!
Dan in Chattanooga
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476242#476242
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Subject: | Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) |
There is a reason the plans call for inserting gear legs all the way into the gear
leg sockets. That is so the load will be carried by the entire socket.
By not inserting the gear leg all the way into the socket, a stress point is established
at the end of the gear leg, a shearing effect.
Early Firestar plans called for centering the end of the gear leg at the mid-point
of the gear leg socket. When I crashed my FS on Grand Island, NY, summer
of 1988, I sheared the gear leg socket right at the end of the gear leg. On rebuild
we started inserting the gear leg until it was seated all the way in the
socket.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Breitigam
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 7:07 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question)
So do you guys think the aluminum gear legs on my Mk III Xtra will fail? To gain
a little height I inserted them so they are 4 inches out from what the plans
say. Nervous about that. Havent flown this restoration project yet.
Thanks!
Dan in Chattanooga
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476242#476242
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Subject: | Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) |
Dan
The aluminium gear legs are good and will protect your plane from damage
from learning pilots up to a point. These legs don't spring and launch you
back in the air like the steel legs which is good but they do bend. They
also if installed like they were intended keep you on the ground till you
have good flying air speed. By extending the gear legs you have become the
test pilot. I do have a bit of concern for bending the steel tube in the
fuselage that the aluminium gear slide into (landing gear socket) on a hard
landing. Let us know how it works out.
I have the old style version 1.2 solid steel highly tapered very springy
gear legs. They float over the roughest ground but are always waiting to
spring me into the air with little airspeed from a botch landing.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
>
> So do you guys think the aluminum gear legs on my Mk III Xtra will fail?
> To gain a little height I inserted them so they are 4 inches out from wha
t
> the plans say. Nervous about that. Haven=99t flown this restoration
project
> yet.
>
> Thanks!
> Dan in Chattanooga
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476242#476242
>
>
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Subject: | Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) |
See John's reply about the inserted length. As for the aluminum legs- if
you are a very careful, skilled pilot who doesn't push the boundary's of
you or your planes abilities, and stay on the airport tarmac, you can
probably do quite well with the Alum legs. If you fly like I do, then you
probably should consider steel. I have had three misfortunes with alum
legs. All self inflicted you understand.
Larry
On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
>
> So do you guys think the aluminum gear legs on my Mk III Xtra will fail?
> To gain a little height I inserted them so they are 4 inches out from wha
t
> the plans say. Nervous about that. Haven=99t flown this restoration
project
> yet.
>
> Thanks!
> Dan in Chattanooga
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476242#476242
>
>
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--
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Subject: | Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) |
RoHam wrote:
> A buddy of mine is trying this setup for off airport operation. Too much fabrication
for me, but I like it. ...Bob
I do not like it. The spreader bar attaches to the New Extension well below the
longeron and the original gear leg socket. Picture the side loads if you ever
get that thing crossed up, or even worse, in a ground loop.
For example, you touch down while fighting a strong right crosswind, and maybe
the nose swings right and the tail goes left. You begin a ground loop to the right.
With the normal gear, not a big deal. With this arrangement, the gear loads
are transferred to the spreader bar, with the associated loads trying to
pull the left New Extension under the belly, and push the right side New Extension
up toward the underside of the wing.
I say this because this is very similar to how Jessie Anglin (mis) designed the
spreader bar attachment brackets on the Anglin J-6 Karatoo - which kit I built
- and which damaged the gear twice on a couple of landings where I got it sideways
a bit, and then one day I was doing a touch and go and the left brake locked
up. (My bad. The return valve in the master cylinder was not set properly)
The airplane did a high speed ground loop to the left, the right main gear
ended up under the left gear, the left main gear was up against the left wing
strut. Check the pictures... Not a smiley face day.
Got an engineer friend to look at the plans and how it was originally built, and
his response was "Well, no damm wonder..." He redesigned it to get everything
aligned, I spent the winter rebuilding it, and the next time it ground looped,
it was a non-event. (aside from the laughs of the watchers)
The attachment points for the spreader bar need to be in alignment with the lower
longeron so that they cannot exert any twisting moment to anything. The loads
need to be transmitted directly.
Looking at the picture, the attach points for the spreader bar need to be in line
between the clevis pin hole for the lift strut and the opposite axle shock
strut point attach to make it non-twisty, which means brackets welded to the lower
cross bar of the landing gear A-Frame about an inch or so inside the longeron
and tied into the main landing gear tube.
And for Dan; the reason those gear legs are supposed to go all the way up to the
top as far as possible - if you drop it in hard enough, the gear legs will kink
the tube they are inserted in. The early Firestars had legs that only went
a bit beyond the retaining bolt hole; after enough guys kinked that socket tube,
Kolb started making the gear legs longer. So if you have slid the gear legs
down about 4 inches, you can take a magic marker and put a mark on the side
of the tube where the gear leg tops out. When the day comes that you drop it in,
that is where the kink will be.
Sorry to be the list wet blanket, but that's how I see it.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and Grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476253#476253
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Subject: | Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) |
They will last till you have a hard landing, when they give way and bend
it should do so without damaging the cage, provided they are installed to
plans.
Boyd Young
On Dec 8, 2017 6:09 AM, "Dan Breitigam" <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
>
> So do you guys think the aluminum gear legs on my Mk III Xtra will fail?
> To gain a little height I inserted them so they are 4 inches out from wha
t
> the plans say. Nervous about that. Haven=99t flown this restoration
project
> yet.
>
> Thanks!
> Dan in Chattanooga
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476242#476242
>
>
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Message 7
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Subject: | Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) |
Thanks to those who spoke of the gear leg socket not holding up. I will heed that
advice and shove it in the rest of the way!
-Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476256#476256
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Subject: | Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question) |
I am definitely the LEAST "expert" on this group, but I have to agree that common
sense and basic engineering favors having the gear leg inserted further into
the socket.
More than one Kolb List participant has plenty of experience with this question,
and more than one has installed different gear, longer gear, switched between
aluminum and steel, etc. Their advice will be worth listening to.
In pursuit of the shortest possible takeoff roll, I installed a much longer gear
on my Firestar. But this has created significant extra risk, and I have to accept
that. I have not flown the aircraft yet, so I cannot provide any factual
information.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 12/8/17, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First Flights Completed! (gear leg question)
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, December 8, 2017, 1:55 PM
Breitigam" <dbrtgm@me.com>
Thanks to those who spoke of the gear
leg socket not holding up. I will heed that advice and
shove it in the rest of the way!
-Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476256#476256
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Message 9
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I received these pics & was searching for anyone using this engine.
--------
kenw
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476258#476258
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5553_210.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5553_138.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5550_323.jpg
Message 10
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Mike in Elkins W.VA. has a low time 912S ...Was for sale....304 692
0070 ...He has the MkIII on Barnstormers ...
I certainly would go in the 4 stroke direction if similar money...Herb
On 12/08/2017 05:14 PM, kenw wrote:
>
> I received these pics & was searching for anyone using this engine.
>
> --------
> kenw
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476258#476258
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5553_210.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5553_138.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5550_323.jpg
>
>
Message 11
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Nice pictures. Ive never run anything but Rotax engines. All 2 strokes. The only
failure Ive ever had was of my own doing.
The 377 on my Firestar is now 30 and still running great. Im now considering going
to the Hirth 2702 (40 hp )simply because Im tired of the constant Rotax parts
hassle. Rotax has gotten so expensive that the Hirth engines are looking
mighty attractive at $4700 with gearbox and dual CDI ignition. I wanted to get
an HKS, but Kolb seems to think that its to much power for the original Firestar.
Hirth is definitely priced right and appear to be of very high quality. It
a dilemma?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 8, 2017, at 7:08 PM, SugarDad <herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mike in Elkins W.VA. has a low time 912S ...Was for sale....304 692 0070 ...He
has the MkIII on Barnstormers ...
>
> I certainly would go in the 4 stroke direction if similar money...Herb
>
>
>> On 12/08/2017 05:14 PM, kenw wrote:
>>
>> I received these pics & was searching for anyone using this engine.
>>
>> --------
>> kenw
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476258#476258
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5553_210.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5553_138.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5550_323.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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