Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:36 AM - slipping (kirk bellard)
2. 07:22 AM - Re: slipping (Ralph B)
3. 07:27 AM - Re: slipping (Richard Pike)
4. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: slipping (Larry Cottrell)
5. 07:38 AM - Re: slipping (John Hauck)
6. 08:56 AM - Kolb Mk2 drawings/manual (billyvray)
7. 02:49 PM - Re: slipping (kirk bellard)
8. 03:15 PM - Re: slipping (Bill Berle)
9. 04:58 PM - Re: slipping (Charlie England)
10. 06:28 PM - Re: slipping (John Hauck)
Message 1
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bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for vertical stabilizer
cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common are slips to much
torque for these planes,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477594#477594
Message 2
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kirk bellard wrote:
> bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for vertical stabilizer
cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common are slips to
much torque for these planes,
I performed slips all the time with both my Firestar and Kolbra. I did see a crack
where the cage bolts to the tail boom on the Firestar, but I'm not sure it
was due to slipping it. Nothing yet on the Kolbra.
--------
Ralph B
Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477596#477596
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More likely it cracked because of torque on the tailwheel during turns. There is
a simple fix: a brace made of 1/2" or 3/4" x 1/8" aluminum flat stock from Lowes
to brace the lower end of the tube.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and Grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477597#477597
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060499_medium_205.jpg
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If I understand correctly, your question was not about where the cage
attached, but the tail post that secures the tail wheel. If this is correct
then the cause for the crack is cured by a breakaway tail wheel.
Larry
On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:22 AM, Ralph B <rstar447@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> kirk bellard wrote:
> > bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for
> vertical stabilizer cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common
> are slips to much torque for these planes,
>
>
> I performed slips all the time with both my Firestar and Kolbra. I did see
> a crack where the cage bolts to the tail boom on the Firestar, but I'm not
> sure it was due to slipping it. Nothing yet on the Kolbra.
>
> --------
> Ralph B
>
> Kolb Kolbra 912uls
> N20386
> 550 hours
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477596#477596
>
>
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others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
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Message 5
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Doubt slips caused your problem. More like lateral stress experienced
during ground handling.
There is no lateral bracing for the tail post except where it is welded to
the tail boom ring.
My MKIII experienced this problem several times before a friend suggested
some external lateral bracing. Went that route in 2004. No more tail post
problems.
Let me see if I can find a photo of our modification. The attached photo
will give you an idea of what we did. Welded a strut on each side of the
lower tail post and tail boom ring.
Some Kolb owners have used bolts to attach aluminum or 4130 chromoly steel
strap instead of welding.
For some there is a misconception that the tail wires are "tail bracing
wires". I don't think they brace anything. Their main function is to space
the vertical and horizontal stabilizers.
These new struts do a good job of removing lateral slop and strengthening
the tail section.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk bellard
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 8:36 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: slipping
bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for vertical
stabilizer cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common are slips
to much torque for these planes,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477594#477594
Message 6
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Subject: | Kolb Mk2 drawings/manual |
I am looking for a set of drawings and info on the Kolb Twinstar
If anyone has a set I would like to copy them and digitize them for my own use.
If anyone on here has a set I would like to hear from you.
--------
Bill R
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477600#477600
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thanks for all the advise, the bracing looks like a good idea, but i do have the
break away tail wheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477609#477609
Message 8
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IMHO the tail wires on a Kolb are referred to correctly as bracing wires. They
brace the horizontal and vertical stabilizers against moving from air loads, control
surface movement loads, etc. The use of the term "bracing wires", or "wire
braced structure" goes way way back through the history of aircraft and then
back through ships, then back to bridge trusses. They perform the same p[hysical
function as "guy wires" on a tower or flagpole mast, but for some reason
"guy wires" never seems to have been used in aviation.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 1/26/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, January 26, 2018, 7:37 AM
Doubt slips caused your problem. More
like lateral stress experienced
during ground handling.
There is no lateral bracing for the
tail post except where it is welded to
the tail boom ring.
My MKIII experienced this problem
several times before a friend suggested
some external lateral bracing.
Went that route in 2004. No more tail post
problems.
Let me see if I can find a photo of our
modification. The attached photo
will give you an idea of what we
did. Welded a strut on each side of the
lower tail post and tail boom ring.
Some Kolb owners have used bolts to
attach aluminum or 4130 chromoly steel
strap instead of welding.
For some there is a misconception that
the tail wires are "tail bracing
wires". I don't think they brace
anything. Their main function is to space
the vertical and horizontal
stabilizers.
These new struts do a good job of
removing lateral slop and strengthening
the tail section.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of kirk bellard
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 8:36 AM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: slipping
"kirk bellard" <k.bellard@aol.com>
bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced
slips, the steel tubing for vertical
stabilizer cracked where it attaches to
tail boom, is this common are slips
to much torque for these planes,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477594#477594
Message 9
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I'd have to agree with Bill on this one. I don't think you'd want to fly
a Kolb with anything weaker than the recommended wire rope in those
places. The tubing and cables combine to form a cable braced truss to
form the tail, just as the old 'king post' style ultralites used to
support the wing. You just get a 'twofer' in the tail, bracing the
vertical to side loads with the same wires that brace the horizontal
against vertical loads.
Charlie
On 1/26/2018 5:14 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
> IMHO the tail wires on a Kolb are referred to correctly as bracing wires. They
brace the horizontal and vertical stabilizers against moving from air loads,
control surface movement loads, etc. The use of the term "bracing wires", or
"wire braced structure" goes way way back through the history of aircraft and
then back through ships, then back to bridge trusses. They perform the same p[hysical
function as "guy wires" on a tower or flagpole mast, but for some reason
"guy wires" never seems to have been used in aviation.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 1/26/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, January 26, 2018, 7:37 AM
>
> Doubt slips caused your problem. More
> like lateral stress experienced
> during ground handling.
>
> There is no lateral bracing for the
> tail post except where it is welded to
> the tail boom ring.
>
> My MKIII experienced this problem
> several times before a friend suggested
> some external lateral bracing.
> Went that route in 2004. No more tail post
> problems.
>
> Let me see if I can find a photo of our
> modification. The attached photo
> will give you an idea of what we
> did. Welded a strut on each side of the
> lower tail post and tail boom ring.
>
> Some Kolb owners have used bolts to
> attach aluminum or 4130 chromoly steel
> strap instead of welding.
>
> For some there is a misconception that
> the tail wires are "tail bracing
> wires". I don't think they brace
> anything. Their main function is to space
> the vertical and horizontal
> stabilizers.
>
> These new struts do a good job of
> removing lateral slop and strengthening
> the tail section.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
---
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Message 10
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My point was the wire bracing does nothing to brace the tail post from lateral
loads. That's what we were talking about, a broken tail post. However, many
Kolb owners feel the tail wires are actually bracing the tail post.
A friend came up with the idea to brace the tail post after I experienced 3 or
4 tail post failures. The bracing worked.
Tail wires on a Kolb keep the horizontal and vertical stabilizers equally spaced.
That is their job. They don't brace the tail post.
Spacing, bracing, you get the idea.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: slipping
I'd have to agree with Bill on this one. I don't think you'd want to fly a Kolb
with anything weaker than the recommended wire rope in those places. The tubing
and cables combine to form a cable braced truss to form the tail, just as the
old 'king post' style ultralites used to support the wing. You just get a 'twofer'
in the tail, bracing the vertical to side loads with the same wires that
brace the horizontal against vertical loads.
Charlie
On 1/26/2018 5:14 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
> --> <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
> IMHO the tail wires on a Kolb are referred to correctly as bracing wires. They
brace the horizontal and vertical stabilizers against moving from air loads,
control surface movement loads, etc. The use of the term "bracing wires", or
"wire braced structure" goes way way back through the history of aircraft and
then back through ships, then back to bridge trusses. They perform the same p[hysical
function as "guy wires" on a tower or flagpole mast, but for some reason
"guy wires" never seems to have been used in aviation.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light
> aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for
> non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 1/26/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, January 26, 2018, 7:37 AM
>
> Doubt slips caused your problem. More
> like lateral stress experienced
> during ground handling.
>
> There is no lateral bracing for the
> tail post except where it is welded to
> the tail boom ring.
>
> My MKIII experienced this problem
> several times before a friend suggested
> some external lateral bracing.
> Went that route in 2004. No more tail post
> problems.
>
> Let me see if I can find a photo of our
> modification. The attached photo
> will give you an idea of what we
> did. Welded a strut on each side of the
> lower tail post and tail boom ring.
>
> Some Kolb owners have used bolts to
> attach aluminum or 4130 chromoly steel
> strap instead of welding.
>
> For some there is a misconception that
> the tail wires are "tail bracing
> wires". I don't think they brace
> anything. Their main function is to space
> the vertical and horizontal
> stabilizers.
>
> These new struts do a good job of
> removing lateral slop and strengthening
> the tail section.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
---
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