---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/26/18: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:36 AM - slipping (kirk bellard) 2. 07:22 AM - Re: slipping (Ralph B) 3. 07:27 AM - Re: slipping (Richard Pike) 4. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: slipping (Larry Cottrell) 5. 07:38 AM - Re: slipping (John Hauck) 6. 08:56 AM - Kolb Mk2 drawings/manual (billyvray) 7. 02:49 PM - Re: slipping (kirk bellard) 8. 03:15 PM - Re: slipping (Bill Berle) 9. 04:58 PM - Re: slipping (Charlie England) 10. 06:28 PM - Re: slipping (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: slipping From: "kirk bellard" bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for vertical stabilizer cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common are slips to much torque for these planes, Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477594#477594 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:59 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: slipping From: "Ralph B" kirk bellard wrote: > bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for vertical stabilizer cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common are slips to much torque for these planes, I performed slips all the time with both my Firestar and Kolbra. I did see a crack where the cage bolts to the tail boom on the Firestar, but I'm not sure it was due to slipping it. Nothing yet on the Kolbra. -------- Ralph B Kolb Kolbra 912uls N20386 550 hours Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477596#477596 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:08 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: slipping From: "Richard Pike" More likely it cracked because of torque on the tailwheel during turns. There is a simple fix: a brace made of 1/2" or 3/4" x 1/8" aluminum flat stock from Lowes to brace the lower end of the tube. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and Grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477597#477597 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060500_medium_489.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060499_medium_205.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:44 AM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: slipping If I understand correctly, your question was not about where the cage attached, but the tail post that secures the tail wheel. If this is correct then the cause for the crack is cured by a breakaway tail wheel. Larry On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:22 AM, Ralph B wrote: > > > kirk bellard wrote: > > bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for > vertical stabilizer cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common > are slips to much torque for these planes, > > > I performed slips all the time with both my Firestar and Kolbra. I did see > a crack where the cage bolts to the tail boom on the Firestar, but I'm not > sure it was due to slipping it. Nothing yet on the Kolbra. > > -------- > Ralph B > > Kolb Kolbra 912uls > N20386 > 550 hours > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477596#477596 > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:23 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping Doubt slips caused your problem. More like lateral stress experienced during ground handling. There is no lateral bracing for the tail post except where it is welded to the tail boom ring. My MKIII experienced this problem several times before a friend suggested some external lateral bracing. Went that route in 2004. No more tail post problems. Let me see if I can find a photo of our modification. The attached photo will give you an idea of what we did. Welded a strut on each side of the lower tail post and tail boom ring. Some Kolb owners have used bolts to attach aluminum or 4130 chromoly steel strap instead of welding. For some there is a misconception that the tail wires are "tail bracing wires". I don't think they brace anything. Their main function is to space the vertical and horizontal stabilizers. These new struts do a good job of removing lateral slop and strengthening the tail section. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk bellard Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 8:36 AM Subject: Kolb-List: slipping bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for vertical stabilizer cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common are slips to much torque for these planes, Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477594#477594 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:03 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mk2 drawings/manual From: "billyvray" I am looking for a set of drawings and info on the Kolb Twinstar If anyone has a set I would like to copy them and digitize them for my own use. If anyone on here has a set I would like to hear from you. -------- Bill R Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477600#477600 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:05 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: slipping From: "kirk bellard" thanks for all the advise, the bracing looks like a good idea, but i do have the break away tail wheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477609#477609 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:10 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping IMHO the tail wires on a Kolb are referred to correctly as bracing wires. They brace the horizontal and vertical stabilizers against moving from air loads, control surface movement loads, etc. The use of the term "bracing wires", or "wire braced structure" goes way way back through the history of aircraft and then back through ships, then back to bridge trusses. They perform the same p[hysical function as "guy wires" on a tower or flagpole mast, but for some reason "guy wires" never seems to have been used in aviation. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1/26/18, John Hauck wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Friday, January 26, 2018, 7:37 AM Doubt slips caused your problem. More like lateral stress experienced during ground handling. There is no lateral bracing for the tail post except where it is welded to the tail boom ring. My MKIII experienced this problem several times before a friend suggested some external lateral bracing. Went that route in 2004. No more tail post problems. Let me see if I can find a photo of our modification. The attached photo will give you an idea of what we did. Welded a strut on each side of the lower tail post and tail boom ring. Some Kolb owners have used bolts to attach aluminum or 4130 chromoly steel strap instead of welding. For some there is a misconception that the tail wires are "tail bracing wires". I don't think they brace anything. Their main function is to space the vertical and horizontal stabilizers. These new struts do a good job of removing lateral slop and strengthening the tail section. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk bellard Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 8:36 AM To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: slipping "kirk bellard" bought 2006 mark 3 and often practiced slips, the steel tubing for vertical stabilizer cracked where it attaches to tail boom, is this common are slips to much torque for these planes, Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477594#477594 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: slipping From: Charlie England I'd have to agree with Bill on this one. I don't think you'd want to fly a Kolb with anything weaker than the recommended wire rope in those places. The tubing and cables combine to form a cable braced truss to form the tail, just as the old 'king post' style ultralites used to support the wing. You just get a 'twofer' in the tail, bracing the vertical to side loads with the same wires that brace the horizontal against vertical loads. Charlie On 1/26/2018 5:14 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > > IMHO the tail wires on a Kolb are referred to correctly as bracing wires. They brace the horizontal and vertical stabilizers against moving from air loads, control surface movement loads, etc. The use of the term "bracing wires", or "wire braced structure" goes way way back through the history of aircraft and then back through ships, then back to bridge trusses. They perform the same p[hysical function as "guy wires" on a tower or flagpole mast, but for some reason "guy wires" never seems to have been used in aviation. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 1/26/18, John Hauck wrote: > > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, January 26, 2018, 7:37 AM > > Doubt slips caused your problem. More > like lateral stress experienced > during ground handling. > > There is no lateral bracing for the > tail post except where it is welded to > the tail boom ring. > > My MKIII experienced this problem > several times before a friend suggested > some external lateral bracing. > Went that route in 2004. No more tail post > problems. > > Let me see if I can find a photo of our > modification. The attached photo > will give you an idea of what we > did. Welded a strut on each side of the > lower tail post and tail boom ring. > > Some Kolb owners have used bolts to > attach aluminum or 4130 chromoly steel > strap instead of welding. > > For some there is a misconception that > the tail wires are "tail bracing > wires". I don't think they brace > anything. Their main function is to space > the vertical and horizontal > stabilizers. > > These new struts do a good job of > removing lateral slop and strengthening > the tail section. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:27 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping My point was the wire bracing does nothing to brace the tail post from lateral loads. That's what we were talking about, a broken tail post. However, many Kolb owners feel the tail wires are actually bracing the tail post. A friend came up with the idea to brace the tail post after I experienced 3 or 4 tail post failures. The bracing worked. Tail wires on a Kolb keep the horizontal and vertical stabilizers equally spaced. That is their job. They don't brace the tail post. Spacing, bracing, you get the idea. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: slipping I'd have to agree with Bill on this one. I don't think you'd want to fly a Kolb with anything weaker than the recommended wire rope in those places. The tubing and cables combine to form a cable braced truss to form the tail, just as the old 'king post' style ultralites used to support the wing. You just get a 'twofer' in the tail, bracing the vertical to side loads with the same wires that brace the horizontal against vertical loads. Charlie On 1/26/2018 5:14 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > --> > > IMHO the tail wires on a Kolb are referred to correctly as bracing wires. They brace the horizontal and vertical stabilizers against moving from air loads, control surface movement loads, etc. The use of the term "bracing wires", or "wire braced structure" goes way way back through the history of aircraft and then back through ships, then back to bridge trusses. They perform the same p[hysical function as "guy wires" on a tower or flagpole mast, but for some reason "guy wires" never seems to have been used in aviation. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light > aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for > non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 1/26/18, John Hauck wrote: > > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: slipping > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, January 26, 2018, 7:37 AM > > Doubt slips caused your problem. More > like lateral stress experienced > during ground handling. > > There is no lateral bracing for the > tail post except where it is welded to > the tail boom ring. > > My MKIII experienced this problem > several times before a friend suggested > some external lateral bracing. > Went that route in 2004. No more tail post > problems. > > Let me see if I can find a photo of our > modification. The attached photo > will give you an idea of what we > did. Welded a strut on each side of the > lower tail post and tail boom ring. > > Some Kolb owners have used bolts to > attach aluminum or 4130 chromoly steel > strap instead of welding. > > For some there is a misconception that > the tail wires are "tail bracing > wires". I don't think they brace > anything. Their main function is to space > the vertical and horizontal > stabilizers. > > These new struts do a good job of > removing lateral slop and strengthening > the tail section. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.