Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:21 AM - Re: Firefly aileron throw (Richard Pike)
2. 09:05 AM - Re: Firefly aileron throw (Rick Neilsen)
3. 09:32 AM - Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Dan Breitigam)
4. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Rick Neilsen)
5. 11:20 AM - Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Dan Breitigam)
6. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Firefly aileron throw (John Hauck)
7. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (John Hauck)
8. 04:52 PM - Re: Firefly aileron throw (Richard Pike)
9. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Firefly aileron throw (John Hauck)
10. 06:09 PM - Re: Firefly aileron throw (Richard Pike)
11. 06:33 PM - Re: Firefly aileron throw (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly aileron throw |
Landing Sunday afternoon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUHziWQw3Qo&feature=youtu.be
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478133#478133
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly aileron throw |
I'm a long time flyer of a MKIIIC. I have gotten used to the heavy
ailerons. Here are a few thoughts that haven't be discussed. At slow speeds
near the ground you need all the control you can get hold of. I used to
have a narrow strip cut out of my woods. On more than one occasion I hit
the stops on my stock ailerons and once I hit the stops both ways. My Kolb
doesn't have a neck snapping roll rate but when I'm slow and near the
ground and an unexpected wind gust hits it is nice to know I can keep my
wing tips from hitting the ground. When at cruise speeds my ailerons are
heavy and keep me from over stressing the wing.
I will never make that change to my airplane.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
wrote:
>
> As most of you long time listers know, I have long been an advocate of
> reducing Kolb aileron deflection for a more pleasant flying experience,
> because in their stock form, Kolbs have a LOT of aileron deflection. Did it
> many years ago on my MKIII, which I documented here:
> http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/pg7.htm
>
> This afternoon was an excellent day for flying, 60 degrees and no wind, so
> I went one richer on the main jet from last week and went flying. Still not
> quite perfect, but a lot less pipiness than before. Now instead of a 700
> rpm range of foolishness, we only have a 300 rpm range where the 277
> doesn't want to stay put. Still thinking that after it gets fully broken in
> it might settle down.
>
> Then Dave & I modified the aileron bellcrank, moved the pushrods in as far
> as practical, readjusted their length and flew it again. WOW! Talk about
> light on the controls - she is now a dancer! At higher speeds, you can see
> and feel the ailerons twisting to less than full throw, yet it cranks and
> banks just like it did before. (And why wouldn't it? Air loads limit
> maximum deflection; so no matter how much throw you build in with your
> bellcrank moment arms/lengths, the ailerons are still only going to deflect
> just so far.)
>
> At lower speeds, the aileron tubes quit their torque twisting, you get
> full throw of aileron deflection, excellent response, and in both cases,
> the amount of pressure involved at the stick is MUCH less than before.
>
> Bear in mind that this is just one flight, and not a couple hours of both
> Dave & I wringing it out and taking notes, but initial results are
> extremely positive. And, as always, we can easily put it back like it was.
>
> Note in the pictures that you can see how far the lower lever point has
> been moved in from stock, (out at the end) and also the amount of aileron
> travel still available after the mod. Substantial.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and Grace really is
> amazing.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478092#478092
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060517_medium_102.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060518_medium_256.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060519_medium_587.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060520_medium_130.jpg
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
Hi guys,
Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear legs with
cables? Would it be worth trying?
Thanks.
--------
Kolb Mk III
Geo Metro 1.3L
Chattanooga
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
The duty of both steel and aluminum gear legs is to absorb landing stresses
by flexing. Aluminum legs flex which is good but don't flex as far before
they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the landing loads
to the plane where other not so evident damage might occur on a hard
landing. I don't think you would want brace any Kolb gear leg. There might
a benefit to dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel gear
legs.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW PoweredMKIIIC
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear
> legs with cables? Would it be worth trying?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --------
> Kolb Mk III
> Geo Metro 1.3L
> Chattanooga
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
I see your point Rick. Perhaps it would work with big fat soft tundra tires.
--------
Dan Breitigam
Kolb Mk III Xtra
Geo Metro 1.3L
Chattanooga
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478145#478145
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly aileron throw |
I've been right there before.
Those are big wings on that little Fire Fly.
Check out the Fire Fly video following Richard P's Fire Fly.
john h
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:21 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly aileron throw
--> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
Landing Sunday afternoon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUHziWQw3Qo&feature=youtu.be
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is
amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478133#478133
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
Wouldn't that be defeating the purpose and one of the major benefits of the
spring gear, aluminum or steel?
As an aside, folks would think you were flying a Challenger. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Breitigam
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
Hi guys,
Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear legs
with cables? Would it be worth trying?
Thanks.
--------
Kolb Mk III
Geo Metro 1.3L
Chattanooga
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly aileron throw |
John Hauck wrote:
> I've been right there before. Those are big wings on that little Fire Fly. Check
out the Fire Fly video following Richard P's Fire Fly.
> john h
> Titus, Alabama
> --
Paste me a link John, Youtube is giving me every sort of irrelevant thing except
stuff related to Kolb Firefly's.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478155#478155
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly aileron throw |
Tweren't nuth'n.
Bunch of YT vids of Fire Fly Airlines out of Malaysia.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 6:52 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly aileron throw
--> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
John Hauck wrote:
> I've been right there before. Those are big wings on that little Fire Fly.
Check out the Fire Fly video following Richard P's Fire Fly.
> john h
> Titus, Alabama
> --
Paste me a link John, Youtube is giving me every sort of irrelevant thing
except stuff related to Kolb Firefly's.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is
amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478155#478155
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly aileron throw |
John Hauck wrote:
> Tweren't nuth'n. Bunch of YT vids of Fire Fly Airlines out of Malaysia.
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
> --
Oh, THOSE! LOL! Had me goin' there for a while... trying to figure out what I wasn't
seeing...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478159#478159
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly aileron throw |
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com wrote:
> I'm a long time flyer of a MKIIIC. I have gotten used to the heavy ailerons.
Here are a few thoughts that haven't be discussed. At slow speeds near the ground
you need all the control you can get hold of. I used to have a narrow strip
cut out of my woods. On more than one occasion I hit the stops on my stock ailerons
and once I hit the stops both ways. My Kolb doesn't have a neck snapping
roll rate but when I'm slow and near the ground and an unexpected wind gust
hits it is nice to know I can keep my wing tips from hitting the ground. When
at cruise speeds my ailerons are heavy and keep me from over stressing the wing.
>
>
> I will never make that change to my airplane.
>
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
Good on ya Rick, I respect how you configure your airplane. Each of us has to do
as we think best.
OTOH, because of the way that high speed airflow loads up the ailerons, (and I
have not compared the aileron tube diameter/wall thickness of the MKIII ailerons
with the FF/Original FS) nothing you change or leave alone in the specific
area under discussion will cause the ailerons to deflect enough to overstress
the wing. The aileron tube will twist under applied force as airspeed goes up,
and maximum aileron deflection relative to stick throw decreases as a function
of increased airspeed.
Which was one of my premises: at high speeds the ailerons are not going to move
much anyway regardless of how much the bellcrank is trying to move them. And
yes; at low speeds the ailerons with the stock setup will move more, and if you
think you need that, by all means keep it.
It would be interesting to mount a video camera on the rear cage below the trailing
edge looking toward the wing tip to be able to show actual aileron deflection
at full throw at different airspeeds.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478160#478160
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