Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Roy Spangler)
2. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Jack Hart)
3. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Richard Girard)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Bill Berle)
5. 08:55 AM - Landing Gear Cables (John Hauck)
6. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (John Hauck)
7. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Jack Hart)
8. 06:26 PM - Re: Replacement tail rod...? (west1m)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad
landing
And prevent a gear collapse.
For what it=99s worth !
roy
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
> The duty of both steel and aluminum gear legs is to absorb landing
> stresses by flexing. Aluminum legs flex which is good but don't flex as f
ar
> before they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the landin
g
> loads to the plane where other not so evident damage might occur on a har
d
> landing. I don't think you would want brace any Kolb gear leg. There migh
t
> a benefit to dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel gea
r
> legs.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW PoweredMKIIIC
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear
>> legs with cables? Would it be worth trying?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --------
>> Kolb Mk III
>> Geo Metro 1.3L
>> Chattanooga
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly140.html
Jack B. Hart. FF004
Winchester, IN
----------------------------------------
From: "Roy Spangler" <roy.spangler@kirtland.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad lan
ding And prevent a gear collapse.
For what it's worth !
roy
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
The duty of both steel and aluminum gear legs is to absorb landing stresse
s by flexing. Aluminum legs flex which is good but don't flex as far before
they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the landing loads
to the plane where other not so evident damage might occur on a hard landin
g. I don't think you would want brace any Kolb gear leg. There might a bene
fit to dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel gear legs.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW PoweredMKIIIC
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear leg
s with cables? Would it be worth trying?
Thanks.
--------
Kolb Mk III
Geo Metro 1.3L
Chattanooga
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137
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Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
Roy, Where are you going to put these cables? The aluminum gear leg is
solid, where does the cable go? What size cable are you proposing? 3/32"
cable has a breaking strength of 960 lb. That's less than a 2G landing load
on a MK III. 1/8" cable has a breaking strength of 2000 lb which is less
than a 4G load and will most likely still break. 5/32" cable? Go as big as
3/16"? Now you're beginning to talk some serious weight.
In the late '70's some hang glider manufacturers began offering swaged 1/8"
cable (breaking strength 2,000 lb) hang straps instead of the 1" tubular
nylon strap. Much less drag was the claim. No one had any idea of the
loading on that cable, it just seemed like a good idea at the time. I don't
know how many pilots died when the cable snapped but an emergency message
was put into "Hang Gliding" magazine advising pilots to remove the cable
and manufacturers took it off the options list. It seems that a pilot
flying through the shear around a thermal could generate the necessary
loading to snap it. Whoda thunk that?
it's your airplane, do as you like, but do some testing to find out if it
would really work as you think. Also give some thought to how you inspect
and maintain them.
2 cents worth.
Rick Girard
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 9:22 AM, Roy Spangler <roy.spangler@kirtland.edu>
wrote:
> Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad
> landing
> And prevent a gear collapse.
>
> For what it=99s worth !
>
> roy
>
> On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The duty of both steel and aluminum gear legs is to absorb landing
>> stresses by flexing. Aluminum legs flex which is good but don't flex as
far
>> before they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the landi
ng
>> loads to the plane where other not so evident damage might occur on a ha
rd
>> landing. I don't think you would want brace any Kolb gear leg. There mig
ht
>> a benefit to dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel ge
ar
>> legs.
>>
>> Rick Neilsen
>> Redrive VW PoweredMKIIIC
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys,
>>>
>>> Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear
>>> legs with cables? Would it be worth trying?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Kolb Mk III
>>> Geo Metro 1.3L
>>> Chattanooga
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
>>> Navigator?Kolb-List
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>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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ion
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>>>
>>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
IMHO, and in accordance with what I have learned from engineers, the "spring gear"
(steel or aluminum) has the advantage that it is the most simple and lowest
parts count for a landing gear that can absorb any sort of impact. It also is
often the lowest drag of typical gear systems.
The spring gear is often not the lightest way to do it, and it is definitely not
the best at absorbing (mitigating) the impact of landing.
To actually absorb and mitigate the impact of landing, there needs to be some way
of changing how that energy is stored/expended after the first impact.That
of course is where the oleo struts, hydraulic fluid, metered orfices, check valves,
etc. etc. come into play on more complicated aircraft.
The designer(s) and engineer(s) at Kolb made the obvious and correct choice of
simplicity and lower cost rather than complexity and higher cost.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/22/18, Roy Spangler <roy.spangler@kirtland.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, February 22, 2018, 7:22 AM
Cables are a safety for a hard
landing at worst they would lessen a bad landingAnd
prevent a gear collapse.
For what its worth !
roy
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com>
wrote:
The duty of both steel and aluminum
gear legs is to absorb landing stresses by flexing. Aluminum
legs flex which is good but don't flex as far before
they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the
landing loads to the plane where other not so evident damage
might occur on a hard landing. I don't think you would
want brace any Kolb gear leg. There might a benefit to
dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel
gear legs.
Rick NeilsenRedrive VW
PoweredMKIIIC
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018
at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com>
wrote:
"Dan Breitigam" <dbrtgm@me.com>
Hi guys,
Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing
aluminum gear legs with cables? Would it be worth trying?
Thanks.
--------
Kolb Mk III
Geo Metro 1.3L
Chattanooga
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/vi
ewtopic.php?p=478137#478137
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matronics.com/contribution
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Message 5
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Subject: | Landing Gear Cables |
Seems to me attaching cables to the gear legs defeats the purpose of
rod or tubular spring landing gear legs.
Spring gear and large low pressure tires take a lot of load off the
airframe experienced during hard landings.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roy Spangler
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad
landing
And prevent a gear collapse.
For what it=99s worth !
roy
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
Jack H's cables will probably prevent spreading the main gear, but
effectively kill the suspension.
It has been proven over and over again, the 1" 7075 aluminum gear legs are
inadequate for the FF, as well as the original Firestar. During taxi to
take off for the first time in my FS, the 1" aluminum legs bent before I had
a chance to fly. I have to admit my airstrip at that time was not the
smoothest, but in my estimation should never have bent those little aluminum
legs. To overcome that weakness we need suitable replacements that will
perform satisfactorily. This will add weight and Jack H does not want to do
that I am sure.
I have never been a fan of wire bracing on Kolb main gear legs. Kolbs are
prone to nose over because Homer Kolb designed them to carry most of their
weight on the main gear and very little on the tail wheel. This gives them
the great characteristic of very easy ground handling. Bad enough taxiing
on high grass and weeds. Add wires and it is a guarantee you'll put it on
its nose, like landing in soy beans. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hart
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly140.html
Jack B. Hart. FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
John,
II don't understand your statement. I have pretty much flown from
improved strips. The cables are designed to help in the case of a "plop"
and do nothing to prevent the gear from flexing or bending front to back.
If you drop a wheel into a hole, the leg will bend just as it would before
the cable system was installed and protects the fuselage from being
damaged. If I recall correctly, the whole works weighed a few ounces.
I put up the previous jump to show that cables could be used to keep the
gear from spreading, and that no modifications need to be made to the
existing structures. $20 spent and the time required to fabricate parts
seemed like a good trade off in comparison to straightening and/or
installing new legs.
http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly134.html
In case you missed it, I put up the above jump so that you can view the
analysis that was done to determine if adding cables would be beneficial.
The calculations indicated the original leg would start to bend at 1.8 G in
a level straight two wheel plop. With the cable system in place and
assuming a plop hard enough to cause cable failure, the cable and gear leg
system will withstand a 5.2 G plop.
Jack B. Hart, FF004
Winchester, IN
----------------------------------------
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
Jack H's cables will probably prevent spreading the main gear, but
effectively kill the suspension.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Replacement tail rod...? |
After bending a couple set of legs I went to Jacks wire bracing but added 4 chevy
valve springs (2 per side) in the cables. This has been working well for my
lack of gracefull landing talent.
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
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