Kolb-List Digest Archive

Thu 02/22/18


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Roy Spangler)
     2. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Jack Hart)
     3. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Richard Girard)
     4. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Bill Berle)
     5. 08:55 AM - Landing Gear Cables  (John Hauck)
     6. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (John Hauck)
     7. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Replacement tail rod...? (Jack Hart)
     8. 06:26 PM - Re: Replacement tail rod...? (west1m)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:22:35 AM PST US
    From: Roy Spangler <roy.spangler@kirtland.edu>
    Subject: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
    Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad landing And prevent a gear collapse. For what it=99s worth ! roy On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote: > The duty of both steel and aluminum gear legs is to absorb landing > stresses by flexing. Aluminum legs flex which is good but don't flex as f ar > before they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the landin g > loads to the plane where other not so evident damage might occur on a har d > landing. I don't think you would want brace any Kolb gear leg. There migh t > a benefit to dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel gea r > legs. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW PoweredMKIIIC > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote: > >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear >> legs with cables? Would it be worth trying? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -------- >> Kolb Mk III >> Geo Metro 1.3L >> Chattanooga >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================== =========== >> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ >> Navigator?Kolb-List >> ======================== =========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ======================== =========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ======================== =========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi on >> ======================== =========== >> >> >> >> >


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:59:49 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
    http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly140.html Jack B. Hart. FF004 Winchester, IN ---------------------------------------- From: "Roy Spangler" <roy.spangler@kirtland.edu> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...? Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad lan ding And prevent a gear collapse. For what it's worth ! roy On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote: The duty of both steel and aluminum gear legs is to absorb landing stresse s by flexing. Aluminum legs flex which is good but don't flex as far before they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the landing loads to the plane where other not so evident damage might occur on a hard landin g. I don't think you would want brace any Kolb gear leg. There might a bene fit to dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel gear legs. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW PoweredMKIIIC On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote: Hi guys, Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear leg s with cables? Would it be worth trying? Thanks. -------- Kolb Mk III Geo Metro 1.3L Chattanooga Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?Kolb-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:03:28 AM PST US
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
    Roy, Where are you going to put these cables? The aluminum gear leg is solid, where does the cable go? What size cable are you proposing? 3/32" cable has a breaking strength of 960 lb. That's less than a 2G landing load on a MK III. 1/8" cable has a breaking strength of 2000 lb which is less than a 4G load and will most likely still break. 5/32" cable? Go as big as 3/16"? Now you're beginning to talk some serious weight. In the late '70's some hang glider manufacturers began offering swaged 1/8" cable (breaking strength 2,000 lb) hang straps instead of the 1" tubular nylon strap. Much less drag was the claim. No one had any idea of the loading on that cable, it just seemed like a good idea at the time. I don't know how many pilots died when the cable snapped but an emergency message was put into "Hang Gliding" magazine advising pilots to remove the cable and manufacturers took it off the options list. It seems that a pilot flying through the shear around a thermal could generate the necessary loading to snap it. Whoda thunk that? it's your airplane, do as you like, but do some testing to find out if it would really work as you think. Also give some thought to how you inspect and maintain them. 2 cents worth. Rick Girard <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 9:22 AM, Roy Spangler <roy.spangler@kirtland.edu> wrote: > Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad > landing > And prevent a gear collapse. > > For what it=99s worth ! > > roy > > On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The duty of both steel and aluminum gear legs is to absorb landing >> stresses by flexing. Aluminum legs flex which is good but don't flex as far >> before they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the landi ng >> loads to the plane where other not so evident damage might occur on a ha rd >> landing. I don't think you would want brace any Kolb gear leg. There mig ht >> a benefit to dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel ge ar >> legs. >> >> Rick Neilsen >> Redrive VW PoweredMKIIIC >> >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear >>> legs with cables? Would it be worth trying? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -------- >>> Kolb Mk III >>> Geo Metro 1.3L >>> Chattanooga >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478137#478137 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ >>> Navigator?Kolb-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:32:11 AM PST US
    From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
    IMHO, and in accordance with what I have learned from engineers, the "spring gear" (steel or aluminum) has the advantage that it is the most simple and lowest parts count for a landing gear that can absorb any sort of impact. It also is often the lowest drag of typical gear systems. The spring gear is often not the lightest way to do it, and it is definitely not the best at absorbing (mitigating) the impact of landing. To actually absorb and mitigate the impact of landing, there needs to be some way of changing how that energy is stored/expended after the first impact.That of course is where the oleo struts, hydraulic fluid, metered orfices, check valves, etc. etc. come into play on more complicated aircraft. The designer(s) and engineer(s) at Kolb made the obvious and correct choice of simplicity and lower cost rather than complexity and higher cost. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 2/22/18, Roy Spangler <roy.spangler@kirtland.edu> wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...? To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" <kolb-list@matronics.com> Date: Thursday, February 22, 2018, 7:22 AM Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad landingAnd prevent a gear collapse. For what its worth ! roy On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote: The duty of both steel and aluminum gear legs is to absorb landing stresses by flexing. Aluminum legs flex which is good but don't flex as far before they stay flexed. Restricting the flexing will transfer the landing loads to the plane where other not so evident damage might occur on a hard landing. I don't think you would want brace any Kolb gear leg. There might a benefit to dampen the spring back on some of the more springy steel gear legs. Rick NeilsenRedrive VW PoweredMKIIIC On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote: "Dan Breitigam" <dbrtgm@me.com> Hi guys, Regarding the gear leg comments; has anyone tried bracing aluminum gear legs with cables? Would it be worth trying? Thanks. -------- Kolb Mk III Geo Metro 1.3L Chattanooga Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/vi ewtopic.php?p=478137#478137 ===== ===== -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb- List ===== ===== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums. matronics.com ===== ===== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki. matronics.com ===== ===== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www. matronics.com/contribution ===== =====


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:55:20 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Landing Gear Cables
    Seems to me attaching cables to the gear legs defeats the purpose of rod or tubular spring landing gear legs. Spring gear and large low pressure tires take a lot of load off the airframe experienced during hard landings. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roy Spangler Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...? Cables are a safety for a hard landing at worst they would lessen a bad landing And prevent a gear collapse. For what it=99s worth ! roy


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:15:49 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
    Jack H's cables will probably prevent spreading the main gear, but effectively kill the suspension. It has been proven over and over again, the 1" 7075 aluminum gear legs are inadequate for the FF, as well as the original Firestar. During taxi to take off for the first time in my FS, the 1" aluminum legs bent before I had a chance to fly. I have to admit my airstrip at that time was not the smoothest, but in my estimation should never have bent those little aluminum legs. To overcome that weakness we need suitable replacements that will perform satisfactorily. This will add weight and Jack H does not want to do that I am sure. I have never been a fan of wire bracing on Kolb main gear legs. Kolbs are prone to nose over because Homer Kolb designed them to carry most of their weight on the main gear and very little on the tail wheel. This gives them the great characteristic of very easy ground handling. Bad enough taxiing on high grass and weeds. Add wires and it is a guarantee you'll put it on its nose, like landing in soy beans. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hart Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 9:59 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...? http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly140.html Jack B. Hart. FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:42:53 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
    John, II don't understand your statement. I have pretty much flown from improved strips. The cables are designed to help in the case of a "plop" and do nothing to prevent the gear from flexing or bending front to back. If you drop a wheel into a hole, the leg will bend just as it would before the cable system was installed and protects the fuselage from being damaged. If I recall correctly, the whole works weighed a few ounces. I put up the previous jump to show that cables could be used to keep the gear from spreading, and that no modifications need to be made to the existing structures. $20 spent and the time required to fabricate parts seemed like a good trade off in comparison to straightening and/or installing new legs. http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly134.html In case you missed it, I put up the above jump so that you can view the analysis that was done to determine if adding cables would be beneficial. The calculations indicated the original leg would start to bend at 1.8 G in a level straight two wheel plop. With the cable system in place and assuming a plop hard enough to cause cable failure, the cable and gear leg system will withstand a 5.2 G plop. Jack B. Hart, FF004 Winchester, IN ---------------------------------------- From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 12:18 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Replacement tail rod...? Jack H's cables will probably prevent spreading the main gear, but effectively kill the suspension.


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:26:37 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Replacement tail rod...?
    From: "west1m" <west1m@hotmail.com>
    After bending a couple set of legs I went to Jacks wire bracing but added 4 chevy valve springs (2 per side) in the cables. This has been working well for my lack of gracefull landing talent. -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478207#478207




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