---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/02/18: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:48 AM - Fabric covering below engine.... (Nick Cassara) 2. 01:53 AM - Fabric covering below engine.... (Nick Cassara) 3. 02:57 AM - Fabric covering below engine.... (Nick Cassara) 4. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Balance Master (Charlie England) 5. 12:24 PM - Re: Balance Master (Richard Pike) 6. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: Balance Master (roger trombley) 7. 07:58 PM - Re: Balance Master (Richard Pike) 8. 08:44 PM - Re: Re: Balance Master (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:51 AM PST US From: Nick Cassara Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric covering below engine.... Kolbers, I am getting closer to putting fabric on my prototype Kolb Kolbra fuselage. I have looked a many Kolb pictures, but few give much of a view of how the fabric was laid over, or under, or around the engine mount tube. If you a reveling picture of how you laid your fabric, I would appreciate the view! Thanks, Nick Cassara Palmer, Alaska 607AK ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:17 AM PST US From: Nick Cassara Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric covering below engine.... Kolbers, I am getting closer to putting fabric on my prototype Kolb Kolbra fuselage. I have looked a many Kolb pictures, but few give much of a view of how the fabric was laid over, or under, or around the engine mount tube. If you a reveling picture of how you laid your fabric, I would appreciate the view! Thanks, Nick Cassara Palmer, Alaska 607AK ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:48 AM PST US From: Nick Cassara Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric covering below engine.... Kolbers, I am getting closer to putting fabric on my prototype Kolb Kolbra fuselage. I have looked a many Kolb pictures, but few give much of a view of how the fabric was laid over, or under, or around the engine mount tube. If you a reveling picture of how you laid your fabric, I would appreciate the view! Thanks, Nick Cassara Palmer, Alaska 607AK ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:06 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Balance Master On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Got the Balance Master in the mail over the weekend, (Thank you Jack > Hart!) installed it and test flew the Firefly yesterday. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?vcfoOJJDpg > (Climbs good for a 277, huh?) > Here is the landing, just to show I don't always bounce them: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIJ_WHLMfY&feature=youtu.be > > Substantial improvement in the vibration level, but not in the way we > expected. It is now smoother than previously at cruise rpm's, best around > 5500, and the smoothness band has widened out a bit. It is now smooth down > to 5000, but still vibrates a lot between 5000 and 4000, but not as much as > before. In any event, it is much better at normal cruise, and a tad better > in that rpm area where it stinks. The next thing we will be trying is to > convert the 277 to dual ignition. > > Back in the 80's, I had a Maxair Hummer with a 277 on it, and the 277 has > a charging coil that lays directly beneath the ignition source coil inside > the magneto. The normal ignition relys on points, but years ago, small > engines could replace the points and condenser with a small solid state > device called an Atom. It is about the size of a postage stamp, and acts > like an ignition points device. > > Got a friend with a machine shop to weld up a place on the hemispherical > dome of the 277 head, which I then milled flat and tapped for a B8ES plug, > added a small coil, and wired the whole mess up. Details are in the March > 1990 EAA Experimenter magazine. > > Anyway, it worked great, and also - unlike the points ignition - the Atom > has an advance and retard function. Which had the effect of causing the 277 > to idle a lot smoother. And might also have an effect on the vibration > level at lower power settings. But if not, it is still always nice to have > dual ignition. > > So now I will be calling some of the snowmobile places up Nawth to see if > I can find a 277 head to experiment on. But that will be a topic for a > different thread. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > Hi Richard, Congrats on getting such impressive performance. Your mention of the Atom points replacement module caught my eye. Is this it? https://pickersyard.weebly.com/atom-universal-electronic-ignition-module.html If so, I think I have a couple of similar units (green ones) lying around from my father's stash of lawn mower parts. I've been tempted to try mounting them in the Slick mags on the Lyc in my RV-4. :-) Any idea if there's something similar available today for the old points-ignition 503 engine? I'd love to get rid of the points in my 503, but the multi-hundred$ CD upgrade is hard to justify. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Balance Master From: "Richard Pike" Yep, that's the one. As I understand it, different colors have different spark lead/retard features, but are otherwise pretty much the same. Don't have time to do a good reply right now, but looking at the older 503 magneto diagram, the 503 would be a good candidate for dual ignition. Keep the points and add the atom. All you would need to get would be the dual plug heads (assuming they bolt on) and a couple of coils. Details later. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479775#479775 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:32 PM PST US From: roger trombley Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Balance Master I am told that belt drive will be way smoother than to tax gear box On May 2, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Charlie England wrote: On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Richard Pike > wrote: ailto:thegreybaron@charter.net>> Got the Balance Master in the mail over the weekend, (Thank you Jack Hart!) installed it and test flew the Firefly yesterday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAcfoOJJDpg (Climbs good for a 277, huh?) Here is the landing, just to show I don't always bounce them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIJ_WHLMfY&feature=youtu.be Substantial improvement in the vibration level, but not in the way we expec ted. It is now smoother than previously at cruise rpm's, best around 5500, and the smoothness band has widened out a bit. It is now smooth down to 500 0, but still vibrates a lot between 5000 and 4000, but not as much as befor e. In any event, it is much better at normal cruise, and a tad better in th at rpm area where it stinks. The next thing we will be trying is to convert the 277 to dual ignition. Back in the 80's, I had a Maxair Hummer with a 277 on it, and the 277 has a charging coil that lays directly beneath the ignition source coil inside t he magneto. The normal ignition relys on points, but years ago, small engin es could replace the points and condenser with a small solid state device c alled an Atom. It is about the size of a postage stamp, and acts like an ig nition points device. Got a friend with a machine shop to weld up a place on the hemispherical do me of the 277 head, which I then milled flat and tapped for a B8ES plug, ad ded a small coil, and wired the whole mess up. Details are in the March 199 0 EAA Experimenter magazine. Anyway, it worked great, and also - unlike the points ignition - the Atom has an advance and retard function. Which had the effect of causing the 277 to idle a lot smoother. And might also have an effect on the vibration lev el at lower power settings. But if not, it is still always nice to have dua l ignition. So now I will be calling some of the snowmobile places up Nawth to see if I can find a 277 head to experiment on. But that will be a topic for a diffe rent thread. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Hi Richard, Congrats on getting such impressive performance. Your mention of the Atom points replacement module caught my eye. Is this i t? https://pickersyard.weebly.com/atom-universal-electronic-ignition-module.ht ml If so, I think I have a couple of similar units (green ones) lying around f rom my father's stash of lawn mower parts. I've been tempted to try mountin g them in the Slick mags on the Lyc in my RV-4. :-) Any idea if there's so mething similar available today for the old points-ignition 503 engine? I' d love to get rid of the points in my 503, but the multi-hundred$ CD upgrad e is hard to justify. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Balance Master From: "Richard Pike" OK, the company is gone and I can play on the 'puter. You can see in the wiring diagram that the generator coil goes to both sets of points via the coils (and the dampening box) via J & K. (These diagrams are from OLD catalogs. I never throw that stuff away) Next diagram; on the Bosch 503 magneto, #27 is the generator coil that goes to the points. #29 is the 30W lighting coil, which is what you will hook the Atom to, which will drive your experimental back up ignition, and the wires for that ought to be green, and green/black. I am assuming that maybe this is one of those deals where you get a spark every time each piston is close to TDC and BDC, with the BDC spark just a wasted spark. But I have never tried this with a Rotax twin; only with a 277 single. None of this may even work at all. You are exploring new territory. I would suggest you get yourself whatever coils you want to use, hook up the wiring, and test it until it makes sense/you sort it out. You can easily use several feet of wire and set yourself up a test bench alongside the cockpit so you are away from the prop. You can still check the ignition advance and retard with a timing light on the magneto even while you are using a remote bench. Once you figure out how it works, then spring for the dual point heads and start looking for a place to put the coils. (I would suggest not installing them on the engine, because if the vibration causes them to get loose, you will have a forced landing. Guess how I know this?) The last three images are from an article I submitted to the EAA Experimenter in March, 1990. (And which they actually printed. Wow...) Let me know if this actually works. If it fails to work, let me know that too. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479796#479796 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wiring_160.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/503_mag_133.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ba1_106.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ba2_179.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ba3_160.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Balance Master From: Charlie England On 5/2/2018 9:58 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > OK, the company is gone and I can play on the 'puter. You can see in the wiring diagram that the generator coil goes to both sets of points via the coils (and the dampening box) via J & K. (These diagrams are from OLD catalogs. I never throw that stuff away) > > Next diagram; on the Bosch 503 magneto, #27 is the generator coil that goes to the points. #29 is the 30W lighting coil, which is what you will hook the Atom to, which will drive your experimental back up ignition, and the wires for that ought to be green, and green/black. > > I am assuming that maybe this is one of those deals where you get a spark every time each piston is close to TDC and BDC, with the BDC spark just a wasted spark. But I have never tried this with a Rotax twin; only with a 277 single. None of this may even work at all. You are exploring new territory. > > I would suggest you get yourself whatever coils you want to use, hook up the wiring, and test it until it makes sense/you sort it out. You can easily use several feet of wire and set yourself up a test bench alongside the cockpit so you are away from the prop. You can still check the ignition advance and retard with a timing light on the magneto even while you are using a remote bench. Once you figure out how it works, then spring for the dual point heads and start looking for a place to put the coils. (I would suggest not installing them on the engine, because if the vibration causes them to get loose, you will have a forced landing. Guess how I know this?) > > The last three images are from an article I submitted to the EAA Experimenter in March, 1990. (And which they actually printed. Wow...) Let me know if this actually works. If it fails to work, let me know that too. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Many thanks for the excellent info. I'll spend some time digesting it, & let you know my results. Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.