---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/07/18: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:22 AM - Re: Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? (John Hauck) 2. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? (George Helton) 3. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? (B Young) 4. 02:58 PM - Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? (Bill Berle) 5. 03:06 PM - Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? (Bill Berle) 6. 03:23 PM - High Thrust Line Question (Bill Berle) 7. 03:38 PM - Re: High Thrust Line Question (Larry Cottrell) 8. 03:50 PM - Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? (John Hauck) 9. 03:50 PM - Re: High Thrust Line Question (John Hauck) 10. 04:04 PM - Re: High Thrust Line Question (Bill Berle) 11. 04:15 PM - Re: High Thrust Line Question (John Hauck) 12. 04:16 PM - Re: High Thrust Line Question (Bill Berle) 13. 04:56 PM - Re: High Thrust Line Question (Bill Berle) 14. 05:47 PM - Re: High Thrust Line Question (Larry Cottrell) 15. 07:49 PM - Re: High Thrust Line Question (Bill Berle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:22 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? Yes, I have slipped and spun the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 3benny3 Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 9:42 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? No one ever done slips or spins in a Kolb? -------- 912ul King Kolbra ;fun plane O300 Cessna 172B ;travel plane Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479903#479903 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:57 AM PST US From: George Helton Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? Sure, slips in a original Firestar and a Twinstar MKII. Spins in both. Keep you airspeed up in slips like any other aircraft. Sent from my iPhone > On May 6, 2018, at 10:42 PM, 3benny3 wrote: > > > No one ever done slips or spins in a Kolb? > > -------- > 912ul King Kolbra ;fun plane > > O300 Cessna 172B ;travel plane > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479903#479903 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:24 AM PST US From: B Young Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? Me too both,,,, the slips are not as effective as say something with a full length fuselage, with full flaps on the mkiii slips are not really needed, I've spun the mkiii a couple times, started really high, till I could determine how it recovered from the spin. Doing so I was fully ready to pull the brs handle. My mkiii recovered with relaxed pressures on the control. Your experience may be different. Boyd Young On Mon, May 7, 2018, 5:24 AM John Hauck wrote: > > Yes, I have slipped and spun the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 3benny3 > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 9:42 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? > > > No one ever done slips or spins in a Kolb? > > -------- > 912ul King Kolbra ;fun plane > > O300 Cessna 172B ;travel plane > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479903#479903 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:20 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? posted by: "John Hauck" " Yes, I have slipped and spun the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII." John H in your experience, did the spin characteristics and spin recovery match the "normal" expectations an average pilot would have for other small GA aircraft, such as Cubs, Cessnas, Champs, etc? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:21 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? posted by: "John Hauck" " Yes, I have slipped and spun the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII." John H in your experience, did the spin characteristics and spin recovery match the "normal" expectations an average pilot would have for other small GA aircraft, such as Cubs, Cessnas, Champs, etc? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:13 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question Kolbers, I ran into a significant problem on my Firestar, and it may cause me to not be able to finish the project. I hope this is not as much of a problem as I fear. When I bought my HKS engine I did not know to ask whether it had one type gearbox or another. It has the 3.47 to 1 box, which will spin a large propeller very slowly. After reading some ot the Kolb List stories about high thrust lines and putting the Kolb over on its nose, I realized I wanted to keep the thrust line as low as possible for best performance and handling. However, with the gearbox rotated to the "down" position, it limited the propeller diameter to 64 inches with a one inch tailboom clearance. With the 3.47 gearbox I have, a three blade propeller with 62-64 inch diameter is not enough... the engine will overspeed before I get the full amount of thrust. Someone suggested using a four or five blade propeller, but that would prevent the wings from folding back. I contacted the engine distributor to ask if I could switch the gears around to make my gearbox a 2.58 to 1 ratio,a nd you cannot do that without changing the gearbox itself. So I asked how much it would cost to buy a new gearbox, andit is way too high for me to consider doing right now. Maybe when I win the lottery. Someone else suggested that I turn the gearbox around facing "up", which would allow a much larger propeller. My first reaction was "Oh goodness no, that will raise the thrust line too high, and it will cause the airplane to nose over on takeoff, I'll run out of elevator control, etc. etc...." But then I realized that was an assumption rather than a known fact. Before I gave up on the project, perhaps I can move the gearbox upwards and not have problems... but how far? So I would like to ask the experienced Kolbers: JUST EXACTLY HOW HIGH can the thrust line be on a Kolb Firestar 2 before it creates safety/handling/nose-over problems? Can the center of the propeller be 34 inches above the tailboom...36 inches...38 inches...40 inches???? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:17 PM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question I'm swinging a 66 inch Warp with the gear box in the down position. Larry On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 4:21 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > > Kolbers, I ran into a significant problem on my Firestar, and it may cause > me to not be able to finish the project. I hope this is not as much of a > problem as I fear. > > When I bought my HKS engine I did not know to ask whether it had one type > gearbox or another. It has the 3.47 to 1 box, which will spin a large > propeller very slowly. > > After reading some ot the Kolb List stories about high thrust lines and > putting the Kolb over on its nose, I realized I wanted to keep the thrust > line as low as possible for best performance and handling. However, with > the gearbox rotated to the "down" position, it limited the propeller > diameter to 64 inches with a one inch tailboom clearance. With the 3.47 > gearbox I have, a three blade propeller with 62-64 inch diameter is not > enough... the engine will overspeed before I get the full amount of thrust. > > Someone suggested using a four or five blade propeller, but that would > prevent the wings from folding back. > > I contacted the engine distributor to ask if I could switch the gears > around to make my gearbox a 2.58 to 1 ratio,a nd you cannot do that without > changing the gearbox itself. > > So I asked how much it would cost to buy a new gearbox, andit is way too > high for me to consider doing right now. Maybe when I win the lottery. > > Someone else suggested that I turn the gearbox around facing "up", which > would allow a much larger propeller. My first reaction was "Oh goodness no, > that will raise the thrust line too high, and it will cause the airplane to > nose over on takeoff, I'll run out of elevator control, etc. etc...." > > But then I realized that was an assumption rather than a known fact. > Before I gave up on the project, perhaps I can move the gearbox upwards and > not have problems... but how far? > > So I would like to ask the experienced Kolbers: JUST EXACTLY HOW HIGH can > the thrust line be on a Kolb Firestar 2 before it creates > safety/handling/nose-over problems? Can the center of the propeller be 34 > inches above the tailboom...36 inches...38 inches...40 inches???? > > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and > for-profit entities > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:09 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? Pretty much a pussy cat when it comes to flying. Spins are a no brainer. Sometimes it helps to get into one, in a MKIII, by a nose high attitude until it stalls, hard rudder and aileron. Relax the stick and it flies right out. My original Firestar would only do a partial turn with the engine at idle. With controls locked it would fly right out of it. However, engine off and it would spin up like a top. Learned that one by accident. I never flew a fixed wing before I flew the test flight for my Ultrastar 34 years ago. I was rotary wing rated. Hadn't flown anything for eight years. Was an easy flight except for landing. It was almost uncontrollable not to come back on the stick when I made my approach. I was more concerned with stalls than anything else. Didn't worry about that in a helicopter. After I got the first landing out of the way, the rest were easy. Kolbs are very easy aircraft to fly. Difficult to hurt yourself if you keep it above the stall speed. They land so slowly one doesn't have to worry about landing with power. Off the top of my head, most Kolb accidents are caused by inadvertently letting the airspeed get too slow leading to a stall. Not correctly reacting to the stall by pulling the stick back to make it fly, instead of pushing it forward to regain airspeed. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 4:53 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slipping and spins in a Kolb? posted by: "John Hauck" " Yes, I have slipped and spun the Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII." John H in your experience, did the spin characteristics and spin recovery match the "normal" expectations an average pilot would have for other small GA aircraft, such as Cubs, Cessnas, Champs, etc? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:38 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question Larry C's Warp is a two blade. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 5:37 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question I'm swinging a 66 inch Warp with the gear box in the down position. Larry On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 4:21 PM, Bill Berle wrote: Kolbers, I ran into a significant problem on my Firestar, and it may cause me to not be able to finish the project. I hope this is not as much of a problem as I fear. When I bought my HKS engine I did not know to ask whether it had one type gearbox or another. It has the 3.47 to 1 box, which will spin a large propeller very slowly. After reading some ot the Kolb List stories about high thrust lines and putting the Kolb over on its nose, I realized I wanted to keep the thrust line as low as possible for best performance and handling. However, with the gearbox rotated to the "down" position, it limited the propeller diameter to 64 inches with a one inch tailboom clearance. With the 3.47 gearbox I have, a three blade propeller with 62-64 inch diameter is not enough... the engine will overspeed before I get the full amount of thrust. Someone suggested using a four or five blade propeller, but that would prevent the wings from folding back. I contacted the engine distributor to ask if I could switch the gears around to make my gearbox a 2.58 to 1 ratio,a nd you cannot do that without changing the gearbox itself. So I asked how much it would cost to buy a new gearbox, andit is way too high for me to consider doing right now. Maybe when I win the lottery. Someone else suggested that I turn the gearbox around facing "up", which would allow a much larger propeller. My first reaction was "Oh goodness no, that will raise the thrust line too high, and it will cause the airplane to nose over on takeoff, I'll run out of elevator control, etc. etc...." But then I realized that was an assumption rather than a known fact. Before I gave up on the project, perhaps I can move the gearbox upwards and not have problems... but how far? So I would like to ask the experienced Kolbers: JUST EXACTLY HOW HIGH can the thrust line be on a Kolb Firestar 2 before it creates safety/handling/nose-over problems? Can the center of the propeller be 34 inches above the tailboom...36 inches...38 inches...40 inches???? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:51 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question On Mon, 5/7/18, Larry Cottrell wrote: I'm swinging a 66 inch Warp with the gear box in the down position. With the 3.47 to 1 gearbox???? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:30 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question I have run 72" props on my mkIII with 3/4" tail boom clearance. That puts the center of thrust 36.375" above the top of the tail boom. If the engine overpowers the elevator, come back on the power a bit. Doesn't take much to get a Kolb off the ground. Soon as you get some airspeed, go back to full throttle. I had to do that initially, when I upgraded from an 80 to a 100 hp 912. Kolbers that let the Kolb nose over on takeoff need to learn how to fly the airplane. I don't dump the throttle on takeoff. Be gentle and it will do what you want it too. Go to longer main gear legs to put the nose up and put more weight on the tail wheel. These are things I have done over the years with my Kolbs. Not recommending anyone else follow suit. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 5:22 PM Subject: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question Kolbers, I ran into a significant problem on my Firestar, and it may cause me to not be able to finish the project. I hope this is not as much of a problem as I fear. When I bought my HKS engine I did not know to ask whether it had one type gearbox or another. It has the 3.47 to 1 box, which will spin a large propeller very slowly. After reading some ot the Kolb List stories about high thrust lines and putting the Kolb over on its nose, I realized I wanted to keep the thrust line as low as possible for best performance and handling. However, with the gearbox rotated to the "down" position, it limited the propeller diameter to 64 inches with a one inch tailboom clearance. With the 3.47 gearbox I have, a three blade propeller with 62-64 inch diameter is not enough... the engine will overspeed before I get the full amount of thrust. Someone suggested using a four or five blade propeller, but that would prevent the wings from folding back. I contacted the engine distributor to ask if I could switch the gears around to make my gearbox a 2.58 to 1 ratio,a nd you cannot do that without changing the gearbox itself. So I asked how much it would cost to buy a new gearbox, andit is way too high for me to consider doing right now. Maybe when I win the lottery. Someone else suggested that I turn the gearbox around facing "up", which would allow a much larger propeller. My first reaction was "Oh goodness no, that will raise the thrust line too high, and it will cause the airplane to nose over on takeoff, I'll run out of elevator control, etc. etc...." But then I realized that was an assumption rather than a known fact. Before I gave up on the project, perhaps I can move the gearbox upwards and not have problems... but how far? So I would like to ask the experienced Kolbers: JUST EXACTLY HOW HIGH can the thrust line be on a Kolb Firestar 2 before it creates safety/handling/nose-over problems? Can the center of the propeller be 34 inches above the tailboom...36 inches...38 inches...40 inches???? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:04 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question On Mon, 5/7/18, Larry Cottrell wrote: I'm swinging a 66 inch Warp with the gear box in the down position. With the 3.47 to 1 gearbox???? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:58 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: RE: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question THANK YOU John H, I appreciate the experience you have shared. I have already put very tall Slingshot gear legs on my Firestar to get the nose up, and larger tires on top of that. I measured 32 inches from the edge of the "socket" tube on the fuselage down the gear leg, around the bend, and down to the axle, making this possibly the "tallest" Firestar out there. It sure looks like a STOL airplane :) I am also looking at photos and videos of Firestars and MK 3's, noticing how far above the wing the thrust line is. I even watched the 20 year old Kolb promotional ideo with a young John H flying the Slingshot :) It APPEARS from those videos that my thrust line with the gearbox turned "up" should fall within those dimensions. Since turning the gearbox around doesn't cost anything, and since I really would like to keep the Kolb and continue getting it in the air, it looks like I will try this first and see. So I'll sell all my other airplane junk instead, and use that money to finish the Kolb :) Anyone need an A-65 engine or a nice Avid Flyer B model airframe? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/7/18, John Hauck wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, May 7, 2018, 4:14 PM Hauck" I have run 72" props on my mkIII with 3/4" tail boom clearance. That puts the center of thrust 36.375" above the top of the tail boom. If the engine overpowers the elevator, come back on the power a bit. Doesn't take much to get a Kolb off the ground. Soon as you get some airspeed, go back to full throttle. I had to do that initially, when I upgraded from an 80 to a 100 hp 912. Kolbers that let the Kolb nose over on takeoff need to learn how to fly the airplane. I don't dump the throttle on takeoff. Be gentle and it will do what you want it too. Go to longer main gear legs to put the nose up and put more weight on the tail wheel. These are things I have done over the years with my Kolbs. Not recommending anyone else follow suit. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 5:22 PM To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question Bill Berle Kolbers, I ran into a significant problem on my Firestar, and it may cause me to not be able to finish the project. I hope this is not as much of a problem as I fear. When I bought my HKS engine I did not know to ask whether it had one type gearbox or another. It has the 3.47 to 1 box, which will spin a large propeller very slowly. After reading some ot the Kolb List stories about high thrust lines and putting the Kolb over on its nose, I realized I wanted to keep the thrust line as low as possible for best performance and handling. However, with the gearbox rotated to the "down" position, it limited the propeller diameter to 64 inches with a one inch tailboom clearance. With the 3.47 gearbox I have, a three blade propeller with 62-64 inch diameter is not enough... the engine will overspeed before I get the full amount of thrust. Someone suggested using a four or five blade propeller, but that would prevent the wings from folding back. I contacted the engine distributor to ask if I could switch the gears around to make my gearbox a 2.58 to 1 ratio,a nd you cannot do that without changing the gearbox itself. So I asked how much it would cost to buy a new gearbox, andit is way too high for me to consider doing right now. Maybe when I win the lottery. Someone else suggested that I turn the gearbox around facing "up", which would allow a much larger propeller. My first reaction was "Oh goodness no, that will raise the thrust line too high, and it will cause the airplane to nose over on takeoff, I'll run out of elevator control, etc. etc...." But then I realized that was an assumption rather than a known fact. Before I gave up on the project, perhaps I can move the gearbox upwards and not have problems... but how far? So I would like to ask the experienced Kolbers: JUST EXACTLY HOW HIGH can the thrust line be on a Kolb Firestar 2 before it creates safety/handling/nose-over problems? Can the center of the propeller be 34 inches above the tailboom...36 inches...38 inches...40 inches???? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities The Kolb-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - via the Web Forums! - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - Email List Wiki! - List Contribution Web Site - support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:55 PM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question I don't know for sure what gear box, but whatever, the location of the propeller shaft shouldn't change. Why don't you call Daryl at Warp and tell him what you have and what he recommends. John turned me on to him and he hasn't done me or anyone that I know of, wrong. Larry On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:02 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > > On Mon, 5/7/18, Larry Cottrell wrote: > > I'm swinging a 66 inch Warp with the gear box in the down position. > > With the 3.47 to 1 gearbox???? > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:06 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question With the propeller shaft in the SAME "down" position, the 3.47 gearbox I have will make the propeller turn at 1671 RPM at theax. coninuous power of 5800 engine RPM. At "cruise" RPM it will turn even slower. With the 2.58 gearbox that I suspect you have, your propeller will turn almost 2250 at 5800 engine RPM. So with those numbers, in order to get the same thrust (and absorb the same 60 horsepower and torque from the HKS) I would need a whole lot more propeller blade area than you would need. Usually you can just put on a 4 blade prop or 5 blade, and that will do the trick. But with a Kolb you can't do it and still fold the wings. Putting on a much wider chord propeller blade (a paddle prop that looks like a T-28 warbird) could work, but again in this case the prop blades would hit the rear of the wing when folded. HKS says the gearbox will take almost $2000 to buy, plus some special tools they would rent me, and however much time from a qualified mechanic familiar with these engines. Plus the use of a hydraulic shop press. That is not gonna work in my current situation, and so I briefly considered selling everything I had, engine, airframe, etc. and starting over with another option. But now I have myself calmed down a little and am not throwing wrenches across the shop cursing :) So before I do anything rash, I want to figure out whether the "up" position of the gearbox is a minor problem or a huge problem. I know that "down" is the preference, but that cannot happen because I have the wrong gearbox. I will be HAPPY to call Warp Drive and ask them, he may have some magic wand that the other prop manufacturers don't have. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/7/18, Larry Cottrell wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Thrust Line Question To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" Date: Monday, May 7, 2018, 5:45 PM I don't know for sure what gear box, but whatever, the location of the propeller shaft shouldn't change. Why don't you call Daryl at Warp and tell him what you have and what he recommends. John turned me on to him and he hasn't done me or anyone that I know of, wrong.Larry On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:02 PM, Bill Berle wrote: Bill Berle On Mon, 5/7/18, Larry Cottrell wrote: I'm swinging a 66 inch Warp with the gear box in the down position. With the 3.47 to 1 gearbox???? ==== ============================== = -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Kolb-List ==== ============================== = FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ==== ============================== = WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com ==== ============================== = b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ contribution ==== ============================== = -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. 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