Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:13 AM - Firestar/HKS First Flight (Bill Berle)
2. 04:28 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Richard Pike)
3. 04:54 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (George Helton)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (John Hauck)
5. 07:31 AM - Re: Bass Lake (TheWanderingWench)
6. 07:54 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Gary Aman)
7. 09:17 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Rex Rodebush)
8. 11:29 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Bill Berle)
9. 11:47 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (west1m)
10. 02:30 PM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (George Helton)
11. 03:15 PM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (lcottrell1020)
12. 05:13 PM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Stuart Harner)
13. 08:18 PM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Richard Pike)
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Subject: | Firestar/HKS First Flight |
Finally after two years of screwing around and getting the HKS engine systems installed
and working, today was initial flight test day.
I did two early morning high speed taxi runs down the runway, then five "crow hops"
from 5 feet to 50 feet AGL down the runway. Early morning before the tower
opened (none of the radio equipment I tried to use would work) , then later
in the evening (after the tower closed at 8PM local) one 10 minute flight doing
ovals around the runway at 500 AGL.
Elevator and rudder light on the controls, ailerons heavy. This will need to be
addressed one way or another.
Required 2 or 3 pounds of forward pressure on the stick for level flight.
Indicated airspeed 50-55 MPH, no idea if this is accurate or not.
Takeoff very short, did not attempt minimum speed landings yet.
Ground steering sensitive but effective.
"Deck Angle" in flight was much different than I had imagined. In order to maintain
level flight the instrument panel was way way down low below the horizon.
Lots lower than where I thought it should be. That is just my inexperience with
the Kolb and UL style aircraft in general.
HKS engine ran well once warmed up. No sagging or "wandering" in flight.
Maximum RPM in flight was 5750, I retarded the throttle to keep it below max continuous
RPM (5800). Might be adding one degree of pitch to the prop blades.
My biggest mistake was due to inexperience with this type of aircraft.... when
I was at 500 AGL it looked to me like I was at 1500 AGL. I thought the altimeter
was wrong, but my ground crew and friends said "yep, looked like you were at
about 500 feet." I was shocked, I thought I was much higher than that!
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 8/4/18, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar/HKS Engine Test Run
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Saturday, August 4, 2018, 2:41 PM
My neighbor, who did
the covering on my Twinstar, used a similar technique, but
it allows rotating the wing. We pinched the end of a piece
of water pipe (~1 foot long) so it would slide over that
attach point, and bolted it. It obviously has a bit of slop
in the fit, but won't come off. The pipe rests in a
'saddle' made with 2 long 2x4s with a shorter one
between. Height of the center one enough to swing the
leading edge without hitting the floor. Wing tip on a padded
saw horse (or table, etc, whatever works for you). Obviously
requires a helper to move the saw horse while you rotate the
wing. When you're ready to rib stitch with a helper,
something lower like a milk crate would be needed.
Something I wish I'd done while it was
uncovered is to clip the wing back to the end of the main
spar. If the wing is clipped, you can just insert something
in the open end of the spar to support the tip. The end
could be closed with a plate after covering. I may yet clip
it. One side of my hangar has a 30' opening, and I could
keep it on that side instead of the main hangar.
Charlie
On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at
3:37 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
wrote:
"Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
Sorry I don't have what you are asking for, but here is
the crude way that I did the MKIII: I have a steel support
pole in the middle of the garage that supports the upstairs
floor, and I put a extra long bolt through the rear spar
pivot point, band clamped it to that pole, and then set the
leading edge on two milk crates. One crate near the root and
one near the tip. Worked OK. Not great, but OK.
Had to put it on sawhorses to do the leading edge top and
bottom.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
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Subject: | Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight |
Congratulations!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482067#482067
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Subject: | Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight |
Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy
ailerons arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on learning to
fly your new toy instead of changing things.
George H.
Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 5, 2018, at 3:12 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Finally after two years of screwing around and getting the HKS engine systems
installed and working, today was initial flight test day.
>
> I did two early morning high speed taxi runs down the runway, then five "crow
hops" from 5 feet to 50 feet AGL down the runway. Early morning before the tower
opened (none of the radio equipment I tried to use would work) , then later
in the evening (after the tower closed at 8PM local) one 10 minute flight doing
ovals around the runway at 500 AGL.
>
> Elevator and rudder light on the controls, ailerons heavy. This will need to
be addressed one way or another.
>
> Required 2 or 3 pounds of forward pressure on the stick for level flight.
>
> Indicated airspeed 50-55 MPH, no idea if this is accurate or not.
>
> Takeoff very short, did not attempt minimum speed landings yet.
>
> Ground steering sensitive but effective.
>
> "Deck Angle" in flight was much different than I had imagined. In order to maintain
level flight the instrument panel was way way down low below the horizon.
Lots lower than where I thought it should be. That is just my inexperience
with the Kolb and UL style aircraft in general.
>
> HKS engine ran well once warmed up. No sagging or "wandering" in flight.
>
> Maximum RPM in flight was 5750, I retarded the throttle to keep it below max
continuous RPM (5800). Might be adding one degree of pitch to the prop blades.
>
> My biggest mistake was due to inexperience with this type of aircraft.... when
I was at 500 AGL it looked to me like I was at 1500 AGL. I thought the altimeter
was wrong, but my ground crew and friends said "yep, looked like you were
at about 500 feet." I was shocked, I thought I was much higher than that!
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 8/4/18, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar/HKS Engine Test Run
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, August 4, 2018, 2:41 PM
>
> My neighbor, who did
> the covering on my Twinstar, used a similar technique, but
> it allows rotating the wing. We pinched the end of a piece
> of water pipe (~1 foot long) so it would slide over that
> attach point, and bolted it. It obviously has a bit of slop
> in the fit, but won't come off. The pipe rests in a
> 'saddle' made with 2 long 2x4s with a shorter one
> between. Height of the center one enough to swing the
> leading edge without hitting the floor. Wing tip on a padded
> saw horse (or table, etc, whatever works for you). Obviously
> requires a helper to move the saw horse while you rotate the
> wing. When you're ready to rib stitch with a helper,
> something lower like a milk crate would be needed.
> Something I wish I'd done while it was
> uncovered is to clip the wing back to the end of the main
> spar. If the wing is clipped, you can just insert something
> in the open end of the spar to support the tip. The end
> could be closed with a plate after covering. I may yet clip
> it. One side of my hangar has a 30' opening, and I could
> keep it on that side instead of the main hangar.
> Charlie
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at
> 3:37 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
> wrote:
> "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
>
>
>
> Sorry I don't have what you are asking for, but here is
> the crude way that I did the MKIII: I have a steel support
> pole in the middle of the garage that supports the upstairs
> floor, and I put a extra long bolt through the rear spar
> pivot point, band clamped it to that pole, and then set the
> leading edge on two milk crates. One crate near the root and
> one near the tip. Worked OK. Not great, but OK.
>
>
>
> Had to put it on sawhorses to do the leading edge top and
> bottom.
>
>
>
> --------
>
> Richard Pike
>
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Firestar/HKS First Flight |
Billy Berle/Kolbers:
I guess it's safe for me to make a comment this morning. I've have a couple cups
of coffee.
Reread what my friend George H wrote below. Best advice you will get this morning,
in my humble opinion.
Ailerons on Kolbs are heavy because you have a lot of aileron for that big wing.
That's the way Homer Kolb wanted it. His idea of flying a Kolb was low and
slow, right down in the tree tops, with plenty of aileron authority right through
the stall. Kolbs are not Pitts or F-16s. Don't expect them to be. 34 years
ago I was concerned about the heavy ailerons on my Ultrastar, then my Firestar,
and my MKIII. Coming out of helicopters it seemed to take a ton of strength
to fly it like I would a helicopter. Homer Kolb always told me to be gentle
and the Kolb will do what you want it to. It is not a yank and bank airplane.
I don't know of any old experienced aviator that flies "yank and bank".
Most all are very smooth, gentle pilots, especially on the ground. Slow down...the
ailerons will get lighter. Increase speed and increase aileron resistance.
Unless you changed something in the aileron controls, they should be ok.
Some of the older Firestar II's had some problems with the Homer designed universal
joint on the aileron torque tube. Brother Jim Hauck, while working and
helping New Kolb Aircraft get organized in London, KY, in 1998, solved that
problem by convincing Kolb to change to a sealed aircraft universal joint. Much
more expensive, but a much better system.
I got the same sensation when I first flew my Kolb. Felt like I was going to tip
over forward. Takes a very short time to get used to level flight attitude.
It may be different from "real" airplanes.
Over many years I have discovered that a prop, boat and airplane, should be pitched
to achieve the rpm red line when flying wide open throttle, straight and
level flight. That will give you the best climb and cruise performance with a
in flight fixed pitch prop. You probably weren't flying WOT when you were turning
5750, but that seems like a good place to stay until you learn how to fly
the Kolb. You can repitch later on down the road when you get some experience
flying the bird.
Different perception in altitude, now you are experiencing what real flying is
all about. Nothing like flying a Kolb.
Good luck and be safe,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy
ailerons arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on learning to
fly your new toy instead of changing things.
George H.
Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
Message 5
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I've found a hammer to be as useful as any other tool in my tool box!
Arty
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."=C2- To
ny Campolo
On Thursday, August 2, 2018, 10:53:17 AM PDT, west1m <west1m@hotmail.co
m> wrote:
We went out for flight the other day, flew for about three hours. Great wea
ther for the flight . After cruising over a few private airstrips, sand and
rock pits and a bunch of field sprinklers around New Richmond we refueled
and flew to Cumberland. There we bought gas and the manager offered us the
courtesy car to go into town and get lunch. When we got back Randy's BeLite
wouldn't start
After the mechanic tried to help us jump it it was clear it was a starter i
ssue. So I borrowed a hammer from him whacked the starter a few times and e
verything worked just fine and we thanked him for the help and flew back to
New Richmond. There was a large float plane there getting engine work. I t
hink this ia the kind of plane we took to Catalina Island (california) when
I was a kid.
http://www.west1m.com/July_30_2018/index.html
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482019#482019
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/floatplane_776.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/basslake2_184.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/basslake1_135.jpg
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight |
A few of us have addressed the heavy aileron condition by redrilling the attach
point connection of the control rods inboard 1 on the control tube angle flange.
Not much change in effectiveness but noticeable change in required effort.
Did this on the FS2 and MK3C as well.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 5, 2018, at 7:54 AM, George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. Sounds like it flew pretty well to me.
Heavy ailerons arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on learning
to fly your new toy instead of changing things.
> George H.
> Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth
> 14GDH
> Mesick, Michigan
> gdhelton@gmail.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 5, 2018, at 3:12 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Finally after two years of screwing around and getting the HKS engine systems
installed and working, today was initial flight test day.
>>
>> I did two early morning high speed taxi runs down the runway, then five "crow
hops" from 5 feet to 50 feet AGL down the runway. Early morning before the tower
opened (none of the radio equipment I tried to use would work) , then later
in the evening (after the tower closed at 8PM local) one 10 minute flight doing
ovals around the runway at 500 AGL.
>>
>> Elevator and rudder light on the controls, ailerons heavy. This will need to
be addressed one way or another.
>>
>> Required 2 or 3 pounds of forward pressure on the stick for level flight.
>>
>> Indicated airspeed 50-55 MPH, no idea if this is accurate or not.
>>
>> Takeoff very short, did not attempt minimum speed landings yet.
>>
>> Ground steering sensitive but effective.
>>
>> "Deck Angle" in flight was much different than I had imagined. In order to maintain
level flight the instrument panel was way way down low below the horizon.
Lots lower than where I thought it should be. That is just my inexperience
with the Kolb and UL style aircraft in general.
>>
>> HKS engine ran well once warmed up. No sagging or "wandering" in flight.
>>
>> Maximum RPM in flight was 5750, I retarded the throttle to keep it below max
continuous RPM (5800). Might be adding one degree of pitch to the prop blades.
>>
>> My biggest mistake was due to inexperience with this type of aircraft.... when
I was at 500 AGL it looked to me like I was at 1500 AGL. I thought the altimeter
was wrong, but my ground crew and friends said "yep, looked like you were
at about 500 feet." I was shocked, I thought I was much higher than that!
>>
>> Bill Berle
>> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
>> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Sat, 8/4/18, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar/HKS Engine Test Run
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, August 4, 2018, 2:41 PM
>>
>> My neighbor, who did
>> the covering on my Twinstar, used a similar technique, but
>> it allows rotating the wing. We pinched the end of a piece
>> of water pipe (~1 foot long) so it would slide over that
>> attach point, and bolted it. It obviously has a bit of slop
>> in the fit, but won't come off. The pipe rests in a
>> 'saddle' made with 2 long 2x4s with a shorter one
>> between. Height of the center one enough to swing the
>> leading edge without hitting the floor. Wing tip on a padded
>> saw horse (or table, etc, whatever works for you). Obviously
>> requires a helper to move the saw horse while you rotate the
>> wing. When you're ready to rib stitch with a helper,
>> something lower like a milk crate would be needed.
>> Something I wish I'd done while it was
>> uncovered is to clip the wing back to the end of the main
>> spar. If the wing is clipped, you can just insert something
>> in the open end of the spar to support the tip. The end
>> could be closed with a plate after covering. I may yet clip
>> it. One side of my hangar has a 30' opening, and I could
>> keep it on that side instead of the main hangar.
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at
>> 3:37 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
>> wrote:
>> "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry I don't have what you are asking for, but here is
>> the crude way that I did the MKIII: I have a steel support
>> pole in the middle of the garage that supports the upstairs
>> floor, and I put a extra long bolt through the rear spar
>> pivot point, band clamped it to that pole, and then set the
>> leading edge on two milk crates. One crate near the root and
>> one near the tip. Worked OK. Not great, but OK.
>>
>>
>>
>> Had to put it on sawhorses to do the leading edge top and
>> bottom.
>>
>>
>>
>> --------
>>
>> Richard Pike
>>
>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>>
>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight |
My Mark III Xtra also has a nose down position in level flight. It is much different
from the 152's, 172's and J-3's that I've flown. I still occasionally
find myself climbing thinking that I was descending when I was really flying level.
The plus side is that this attitude gives you a fantastic view!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482075#482075
Message 8
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Subject: | Firestar/HKS First Flight |
THANK YOU John H and everyone else for your comments. Please tell me more about
a universal joint in the aileron torque tube?!?!?
Are you referring to the U-joint in the steel tube under the seat on the aircraft
centerline or are you saying there is a U-joint in the aileron tube itself
on the wing?
My ailerons are very easy to move with two fingers when the aircraft is on the
ground, but in flight with air loads on the wings the ailerons are heavy.
My INITIAL assessment of the ROOT CAUSE of the problem is that one or more of these
things is causing it:
1) Large ailerons that simply need more muscle to move in flight (per John H's
comment)
2) Piano hinges are binding because the trailing edge of the wing is not a perfect
straight line any more once the wings are lifting
3) The "aluminum aileron leading edge/tube is being asked to move up and down as
well as twisting, because the hinge axis is not in the center of the tube
I am not loooking for an aerobatic or air combat maneuver airplane, but I am hoping
to have the Kolb aileron control as light and responsive and pleasant as
the Kolb rudder and elevator are.
BTW my giant tall landing gear definitely makes the airplane a little more squirrely
on the ground than a stock Kolb would probably be ! But it is manageable
thus far. Haven't had any crosswind or gusty situations yet, Time will tell if
I bit off more than I can chew with the landing gear :)
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 8/5/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Sunday, August 5, 2018, 7:31 AM
Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Billy Berle/Kolbers:
I guess it's safe for me to make a
comment this morning. I've have a couple cups of
coffee.
Reread what my friend George H wrote
below. Best advice you will get this morning, in my
humble opinion.
Ailerons on Kolbs are heavy because you
have a lot of aileron for that big wing. That's the
way Homer Kolb wanted it. His idea of flying a Kolb
was low and slow, right down in the tree tops, with plenty
of aileron authority right through the stall. Kolbs
are not Pitts or F-16s. Don't expect them to be.
34 years ago I was concerned about the heavy ailerons on my
Ultrastar, then my Firestar, and my MKIII. Coming out of
helicopters it seemed to take a ton of strength to fly it
like I would a helicopter. Homer Kolb always told me
to be gentle and the Kolb will do what you want it to.
It is not a yank and bank airplane. I don't know of
any old experienced aviator that flies "yank and
bank". Most all are very smooth, gentle pilots,
especially on the ground. Slow down...the ailerons
will get lighter. Increase speed and increase aileron
resistance. Unless you changed something in the
aileron controls, they should be ok. Some of the older
Firestar II's had some problems!
with the Homer designed
universal joint on the aileron torque tube. Brother
Jim Hauck, while working and helping New Kolb Aircraft get
organized in London, KY, in 1998, solved that problem by
convincing Kolb to change to a sealed aircraft universal
joint. Much more expensive, but a much better system.
I got the same sensation when I first
flew my Kolb. Felt like I was going to tip over
forward. Takes a very short time to get used to level
flight attitude. It may be different from "real"
airplanes.
Over many years I have discovered that
a prop, boat and airplane, should be pitched to achieve the
rpm red line when flying wide open throttle, straight and
level flight. That will give you the best climb and
cruise performance with a in flight fixed pitch prop.
You probably weren't flying WOT when you were turning 5750,
but that seems like a good place to stay until you learn how
to fly the Kolb. You can repitch later on down the
road when you get some experience flying the bird.
Different perception in altitude, now
you are experiencing what real flying is all about.
Nothing like flying a Kolb.
Good luck and be safe,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com>
Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view.
Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons
arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on
learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things.
George H.
Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
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Subject: | Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight |
I was curious about how level my Firefly was after reading the comment about looking
down. It looks fairly level in this pic
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482083#482083
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/level_247.jpg
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight |
Bill, John H. Is absolutely right. The faster you push the wing through the air,
the heavier your ailerons will get. Conversely, the slower you fly the lighter
they become. The hinges are only offset of center to provide you with differential
effect. That cuts down on adverse yaw.
Concentrate on learning to fly your airplane in its present setup. You will find
after a few hours that its quite nice to use a little side stick pressure then
using a bunch of side stick travel.
Your plane sounds like it flying properly. Become more of a flyer and less of an
engineer. Learn to land the thing with that strange gear. Keep your airspeed
up on approach for the first few hours. Like Homer Kolb said so many years ago.
Keep thy airspeed up, lest ye smite the ground.
Have a great day!
George H.
Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 5, 2018, at 2:17 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> THANK YOU John H and everyone else for your comments. Please tell me more about
a universal joint in the aileron torque tube?!?!?
>
> Are you referring to the U-joint in the steel tube under the seat on the aircraft
centerline or are you saying there is a U-joint in the aileron tube itself
on the wing?
>
> My ailerons are very easy to move with two fingers when the aircraft is on the
ground, but in flight with air loads on the wings the ailerons are heavy.
>
> My INITIAL assessment of the ROOT CAUSE of the problem is that one or more of
these things is causing it:
>
> 1) Large ailerons that simply need more muscle to move in flight (per John H's
comment)
> 2) Piano hinges are binding because the trailing edge of the wing is not a perfect
straight line any more once the wings are lifting
> 3) The "aluminum aileron leading edge/tube is being asked to move up and down
as well as twisting, because the hinge axis is not in the center of the tube
>
> I am not loooking for an aerobatic or air combat maneuver airplane, but I am
hoping to have the Kolb aileron control as light and responsive and pleasant as
the Kolb rudder and elevator are.
>
> BTW my giant tall landing gear definitely makes the airplane a little more squirrely
on the ground than a stock Kolb would probably be ! But it is manageable
thus far. Haven't had any crosswind or gusty situations yet, Time will tell
if I bit off more than I can chew with the landing gear :)
>
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 8/5/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 5, 2018, 7:31 AM
>
> Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Billy Berle/Kolbers:
>
> I guess it's safe for me to make a
> comment this morning. I've have a couple cups of
> coffee.
>
> Reread what my friend George H wrote
> below. Best advice you will get this morning, in my
> humble opinion.
>
> Ailerons on Kolbs are heavy because you
> have a lot of aileron for that big wing. That's the
> way Homer Kolb wanted it. His idea of flying a Kolb
> was low and slow, right down in the tree tops, with plenty
> of aileron authority right through the stall. Kolbs
> are not Pitts or F-16s. Don't expect them to be.
> 34 years ago I was concerned about the heavy ailerons on my
> Ultrastar, then my Firestar, and my MKIII. Coming out of
> helicopters it seemed to take a ton of strength to fly it
> like I would a helicopter. Homer Kolb always told me
> to be gentle and the Kolb will do what you want it to.
> It is not a yank and bank airplane. I don't know of
> any old experienced aviator that flies "yank and
> bank". Most all are very smooth, gentle pilots,
> especially on the ground. Slow down...the ailerons
> will get lighter. Increase speed and increase aileron
> resistance. Unless you changed something in the
> aileron controls, they should be ok. Some of the older
> Firestar II's had some problems!
> with the Homer designed
> universal joint on the aileron torque tube. Brother
> Jim Hauck, while working and helping New Kolb Aircraft get
> organized in London, KY, in 1998, solved that problem by
> convincing Kolb to change to a sealed aircraft universal
> joint. Much more expensive, but a much better system.
>
> I got the same sensation when I first
> flew my Kolb. Felt like I was going to tip over
> forward. Takes a very short time to get used to level
> flight attitude. It may be different from "real"
> airplanes.
>
> Over many years I have discovered that
> a prop, boat and airplane, should be pitched to achieve the
> rpm red line when flying wide open throttle, straight and
> level flight. That will give you the best climb and
> cruise performance with a in flight fixed pitch prop.
> You probably weren't flying WOT when you were turning 5750,
> but that seems like a good place to stay until you learn how
> to fly the Kolb. You can repitch later on down the
> road when you get some experience flying the bird.
>
> Different perception in altitude, now
> you are experiencing what real flying is all about.
> Nothing like flying a Kolb.
>
> Good luck and be safe,
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
> George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com>
>
> Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view.
> Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons
> arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on
> learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things.
> George H.
> Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth
> 14GDH
> Mesick, Michigan
> gdhelton@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> The Kolb-List Email Forum -
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>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
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>
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Subject: | Firestar/HKS First Flight |
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Message 12
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Subject: | Firestar/HKS First Flight |
Bill,
First, congratulations on your first flight. That is always a milestone
no matter how many times you have done it.
Second, it sounds like your plane is performing just as it should. My
Kolb is a Firefly so my experience is only similar.
Third, the other guys are correct. At this point the only reason to go
making changes is if you have a serious problem like one wing is so
heavy it will barely fly level. Keep flying and getting to know your
bird. As long as it is not showing any dangerous traits leave well
enough alone until you have become intimate with the flight
characteristics over the entire envelope. You can change the mechanical
advantage of the aileron push tubes by moving the bottom ends inward but
don=99t forget you trade travel distance for that advantage. This
may be well and good in calm conditions but believe me when I tell you
that I have found myself needing every bit of length of throw at the
stick end of things on more than one occasion. It was not my intention
to fly in those conditions but they do happen. You sure as heck
don=99t want to run out of aileron travel when you need it most.
This is most noticeable at slower speeds and where are you likely to be
at those slower speeds but on takeoff or approach the most notably
critical portions of flight. When you are up cruising around at the
upper end of the speed envelope and the ailerons seem
=9Cheavy=9D just remember that you don=99t need much
movement to accomplish your desires so the amount of force is not that
great.
The best advice I got when learning to fly the Firefly was to put my
elbow on my leg and fly with my fingers. It worked and proved that it
really does not take that much force to roll the wings. So keep flying
and keep analyzing and keep thinking before you go changing anything.
After all your hard work to get airborne go enjoy it! My bet is you will
start having so much fun when you are not over thinking things you will
actually forget to think about them.
Fourth, Congratulations! Now go do it again!
Best wishes and safe skies,
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lcottrell1020
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 5:15 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight
The firestar has heavy ailerons. Nothing much you can do, other than
move the control rods closer to the center. I tried it but didn't like
it. I have gotten used to using my knees to assist. It's just part of
having a Kolb. If you go slow enough they are fine. Too fast and they
are stiff. There have been some experiments with spades, but nothing of
definite results. You will either get used to it, or get something else.
Larry
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight
THANK YOU John H and everyone else for your comments. Please tell me
more about a universal joint in the aileron torque tube?!?!?
Are you referring to the U-joint in the steel tube under the seat on the
aircraft centerline or are you saying there is a U-joint in the aileron
tube itself on the wing?
My ailerons are very easy to move with two fingers when the aircraft is
on the ground, but in flight with air loads on the wings the ailerons
are heavy.
My INITIAL assessment of the ROOT CAUSE of the problem is that one or
more of these things is causing it:
1) Large ailerons that simply need more muscle to move in flight (per
John H's comment)
2) Piano hinges are binding because the trailing edge of the wing is not
a perfect straight line any more once the wings are lifting
3) The "aluminum aileron leading edge/tube is being asked to move up and
down as well as twisting, because the hinge axis is not in the center of
the tube
I am not loooking for an aerobatic or air combat maneuver airplane, but
I am hoping to have the Kolb aileron control as light and responsive and
pleasant as the Kolb rudder and elevator are.
BTW my giant tall landing gear definitely makes the airplane a little
more squirrely on the ground than a stock Kolb would probably be ! But
it is manageable thus far. Haven't had any crosswind or gusty situations
yet, Time will tell if I bit off more than I can chew with the landing
gear :)
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 8/5/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight
Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Billy Berle/Kolbers:
I guess it's safe for me to make a
comment this morning. I've have a couple cups of
coffee.
Reread what my friend George H wrote
below. Best advice you will get this morning, in my
humble opinion.
Ailerons on Kolbs are heavy because you
have a lot of aileron for that big wing. That's the
way Homer Kolb wanted it. His idea of flying a Kolb
was low and slow, right down in the tree tops, with plenty
of aileron authority right through the stall. Kolbs
are not Pitts or F-16s. Don't expect them to be.
34 years ago I was concerned about the heavy ailerons on my
Ultrastar, then my Firestar, and my MKIII. Coming out of
helicopters it seemed to take a ton of strength to fly it
like I would a helicopter. Homer Kolb always told me
to be gentle and the Kolb will do what you want it to.
It is not a yank and bank airplane. I don't know of
any old experienced aviator that flies "yank and
bank". Most all are very smooth, gentle pilots,
especially on the ground. Slow down...the ailerons
will get lighter. Increase speed and increase aileron
resistance. Unless you changed something in the
aileron controls, they should be ok. Some of the older
Firestar II's had some problems!
with the Homer designed
universal joint on the aileron torque tube. Brother
Jim Hauck, while working and helping New Kolb Aircraft get
organized in London, KY, in 1998, solved that problem by
convincing Kolb to change to a sealed aircraft universal
joint. Much more expensive, but a much better system.
I got the same sensation when I first
flew my Kolb. Felt like I was going to tip over
forward. Takes a very short time to get used to level
flight attitude. It may be different from "real"
airplanes.
Over many years I have discovered that
a prop, boat and airplane, should be pitched to achieve the
rpm red line when flying wide open throttle, straight and
level flight. That will give you the best climb and
cruise performance with a in flight fixed pitch prop.
You probably weren't flying WOT when you were turning 5750,
but that seems like a good place to stay until you learn how
to fly the Kolb. You can repitch later on down the
road when you get some experience flying the bird.
Different perception in altitude, now
you are experiencing what real flying is all about.
Nothing like flying a Kolb.
Good luck and be safe,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com>
Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view.
Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons
aren=99t unusual on Kolbs. I=99d go out and concentrate on
learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things.
George H.
Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
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Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight |
Plan to fly for many hours with the ailerons just like they are. Heavy ailerons
are perfectly normal for a Kolb. Once you know your airplane inside out, you
might want to try drilling a couple of holes in the aileron bellcrank a bit closer
to the pivot point and moving the bottom ends of the aileron pushrods closer
to the pivot; it will change the leverage arm and the ailerons will become
much lighter.
You will lose some aileron deflection. Possibly some control authority. Some on
this list think that is anathema, others are comfortable with it. Your call.
But after you have 50-75 hours in your airplane, you will be able to decide for
yourself, and if you don't like it; you can put them back like they were.
In the meantime, everything that Stuart, John and Larry - among others - have
said is absolutely correct. Kolbs have heavy ailerons, and they fly just fine
with heavy ailerons. So do Stearmans.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482102#482102
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