Kolb-List Digest Archive

Sun 08/05/18


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:13 AM -  Firestar/HKS First Flight (Bill Berle)
     2. 04:28 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Richard Pike)
     3. 04:54 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (George Helton)
     4. 07:31 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (John Hauck)
     5. 07:31 AM - Re: Bass Lake (TheWanderingWench)
     6. 07:54 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Gary Aman)
     7. 09:17 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Rex Rodebush)
     8. 11:29 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Bill Berle)
     9. 11:47 AM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (west1m)
    10. 02:30 PM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (George Helton)
    11. 03:15 PM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (lcottrell1020)
    12. 05:13 PM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Stuart Harner)
    13. 08:18 PM - Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight (Richard Pike)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:13:31 AM PST US
    From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    Finally after two years of screwing around and getting the HKS engine systems installed and working, today was initial flight test day. I did two early morning high speed taxi runs down the runway, then five "crow hops" from 5 feet to 50 feet AGL down the runway. Early morning before the tower opened (none of the radio equipment I tried to use would work) , then later in the evening (after the tower closed at 8PM local) one 10 minute flight doing ovals around the runway at 500 AGL. Elevator and rudder light on the controls, ailerons heavy. This will need to be addressed one way or another. Required 2 or 3 pounds of forward pressure on the stick for level flight. Indicated airspeed 50-55 MPH, no idea if this is accurate or not. Takeoff very short, did not attempt minimum speed landings yet. Ground steering sensitive but effective. "Deck Angle" in flight was much different than I had imagined. In order to maintain level flight the instrument panel was way way down low below the horizon. Lots lower than where I thought it should be. That is just my inexperience with the Kolb and UL style aircraft in general. HKS engine ran well once warmed up. No sagging or "wandering" in flight. Maximum RPM in flight was 5750, I retarded the throttle to keep it below max continuous RPM (5800). Might be adding one degree of pitch to the prop blades. My biggest mistake was due to inexperience with this type of aircraft.... when I was at 500 AGL it looked to me like I was at 1500 AGL. I thought the altimeter was wrong, but my ground crew and friends said "yep, looked like you were at about 500 feet." I was shocked, I thought I was much higher than that! Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 8/4/18, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar/HKS Engine Test Run To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Saturday, August 4, 2018, 2:41 PM My neighbor, who did the covering on my Twinstar, used a similar technique, but it allows rotating the wing. We pinched the end of a piece of water pipe (~1 foot long) so it would slide over that attach point, and bolted it. It obviously has a bit of slop in the fit, but won't come off. The pipe rests in a 'saddle' made with 2 long 2x4s with a shorter one between. Height of the center one enough to swing the leading edge without hitting the floor. Wing tip on a padded saw horse (or table, etc, whatever works for you). Obviously requires a helper to move the saw horse while you rotate the wing. When you're ready to rib stitch with a helper, something lower like a milk crate would be needed. Something I wish I'd done while it was uncovered is to clip the wing back to the end of the main spar. If the wing is clipped, you can just insert something in the open end of the spar to support the tip. The end could be closed with a plate after covering. I may yet clip it. One side of my hangar has a 30' opening, and I could keep it on that side instead of the main hangar. Charlie On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 3:37 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> wrote: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net> Sorry I don't have what you are asking for, but here is the crude way that I did the MKIII: I have a steel support pole in the middle of the garage that supports the upstairs floor, and I put a extra long bolt through the rear spar pivot point, band clamped it to that pole, and then set the leading edge on two milk crates. One crate near the root and one near the tip. Worked OK. Not great, but OK. Had to put it on sawhorses to do the leading edge top and bottom. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:28:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
    Congratulations! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482067#482067


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:54:43 AM PST US
    From: George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things. George H. Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth 14GDH Mesick, Michigan gdhelton@gmail.com Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2018, at 3:12 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > Finally after two years of screwing around and getting the HKS engine systems installed and working, today was initial flight test day. > > I did two early morning high speed taxi runs down the runway, then five "crow hops" from 5 feet to 50 feet AGL down the runway. Early morning before the tower opened (none of the radio equipment I tried to use would work) , then later in the evening (after the tower closed at 8PM local) one 10 minute flight doing ovals around the runway at 500 AGL. > > Elevator and rudder light on the controls, ailerons heavy. This will need to be addressed one way or another. > > Required 2 or 3 pounds of forward pressure on the stick for level flight. > > Indicated airspeed 50-55 MPH, no idea if this is accurate or not. > > Takeoff very short, did not attempt minimum speed landings yet. > > Ground steering sensitive but effective. > > "Deck Angle" in flight was much different than I had imagined. In order to maintain level flight the instrument panel was way way down low below the horizon. Lots lower than where I thought it should be. That is just my inexperience with the Kolb and UL style aircraft in general. > > HKS engine ran well once warmed up. No sagging or "wandering" in flight. > > Maximum RPM in flight was 5750, I retarded the throttle to keep it below max continuous RPM (5800). Might be adding one degree of pitch to the prop blades. > > My biggest mistake was due to inexperience with this type of aircraft.... when I was at 500 AGL it looked to me like I was at 1500 AGL. I thought the altimeter was wrong, but my ground crew and friends said "yep, looked like you were at about 500 feet." I was shocked, I thought I was much higher than that! > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 8/4/18, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar/HKS Engine Test Run > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Saturday, August 4, 2018, 2:41 PM > > My neighbor, who did > the covering on my Twinstar, used a similar technique, but > it allows rotating the wing. We pinched the end of a piece > of water pipe (~1 foot long) so it would slide over that > attach point, and bolted it. It obviously has a bit of slop > in the fit, but won't come off. The pipe rests in a > 'saddle' made with 2 long 2x4s with a shorter one > between. Height of the center one enough to swing the > leading edge without hitting the floor. Wing tip on a padded > saw horse (or table, etc, whatever works for you). Obviously > requires a helper to move the saw horse while you rotate the > wing. When you're ready to rib stitch with a helper, > something lower like a milk crate would be needed. > Something I wish I'd done while it was > uncovered is to clip the wing back to the end of the main > spar. If the wing is clipped, you can just insert something > in the open end of the spar to support the tip. The end > could be closed with a plate after covering. I may yet clip > it. One side of my hangar has a 30' opening, and I could > keep it on that side instead of the main hangar. > Charlie > > > On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at > 3:37 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> > wrote: > "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net> > > > > Sorry I don't have what you are asking for, but here is > the crude way that I did the MKIII: I have a steel support > pole in the middle of the garage that supports the upstairs > floor, and I put a extra long bolt through the rear spar > pivot point, band clamped it to that pole, and then set the > leading edge on two milk crates. One crate near the root and > one near the tip. Worked OK. Not great, but OK. > > > > Had to put it on sawhorses to do the leading edge top and > bottom. > > > > -------- > > Richard Pike > > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:31:19 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    Billy Berle/Kolbers: I guess it's safe for me to make a comment this morning. I've have a couple cups of coffee. Reread what my friend George H wrote below. Best advice you will get this morning, in my humble opinion. Ailerons on Kolbs are heavy because you have a lot of aileron for that big wing. That's the way Homer Kolb wanted it. His idea of flying a Kolb was low and slow, right down in the tree tops, with plenty of aileron authority right through the stall. Kolbs are not Pitts or F-16s. Don't expect them to be. 34 years ago I was concerned about the heavy ailerons on my Ultrastar, then my Firestar, and my MKIII. Coming out of helicopters it seemed to take a ton of strength to fly it like I would a helicopter. Homer Kolb always told me to be gentle and the Kolb will do what you want it to. It is not a yank and bank airplane. I don't know of any old experienced aviator that flies "yank and bank". Most all are very smooth, gentle pilots, especially on the ground. Slow down...the ailerons will get lighter. Increase speed and increase aileron resistance. Unless you changed something in the aileron controls, they should be ok. Some of the older Firestar II's had some problems with the Homer designed universal joint on the aileron torque tube. Brother Jim Hauck, while working and helping New Kolb Aircraft get organized in London, KY, in 1998, solved that problem by convincing Kolb to change to a sealed aircraft universal joint. Much more expensive, but a much better system. I got the same sensation when I first flew my Kolb. Felt like I was going to tip over forward. Takes a very short time to get used to level flight attitude. It may be different from "real" airplanes. Over many years I have discovered that a prop, boat and airplane, should be pitched to achieve the rpm red line when flying wide open throttle, straight and level flight. That will give you the best climb and cruise performance with a in flight fixed pitch prop. You probably weren't flying WOT when you were turning 5750, but that seems like a good place to stay until you learn how to fly the Kolb. You can repitch later on down the road when you get some experience flying the bird. Different perception in altitude, now you are experiencing what real flying is all about. Nothing like flying a Kolb. Good luck and be safe, john h mkIII Titus, Alabama Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things. George H. Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth 14GDH Mesick, Michigan gdhelton@gmail.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:31:23 AM PST US
    From: TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Bass Lake
    I've found a hammer to be as useful as any other tool in my tool box! Arty "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."=C2- To ny Campolo On Thursday, August 2, 2018, 10:53:17 AM PDT, west1m <west1m@hotmail.co m> wrote: We went out for flight the other day, flew for about three hours. Great wea ther for the flight . After cruising over a few private airstrips, sand and rock pits and a bunch of field sprinklers around New Richmond we refueled and flew to Cumberland. There we bought gas and the manager offered us the courtesy car to go into town and get lunch. When we got back Randy's BeLite wouldn't start After the mechanic tried to help us jump it it was clear it was a starter i ssue. So I borrowed a hammer from him whacked the starter a few times and e verything worked just fine and we thanked him for the help and flew back to New Richmond. There was a large float plane there getting engine work. I t hink this ia the kind of plane we took to Catalina Island (california) when I was a kid. http://www.west1m.com/July_30_2018/index.html -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482019#482019 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/floatplane_776.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/basslake2_184.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/basslake1_135.jpg S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:54:33 AM PST US
    From: Gary Aman <zeprep251@aol.com>
    Subject: Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    A few of us have addressed the heavy aileron condition by redrilling the attach point connection of the control rods inboard 1 on the control tube angle flange. Not much change in effectiveness but noticeable change in required effort. Did this on the FS2 and MK3C as well. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2018, at 7:54 AM, George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things. > George H. > Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth > 14GDH > Mesick, Michigan > gdhelton@gmail.com > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 5, 2018, at 3:12 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> >> Finally after two years of screwing around and getting the HKS engine systems installed and working, today was initial flight test day. >> >> I did two early morning high speed taxi runs down the runway, then five "crow hops" from 5 feet to 50 feet AGL down the runway. Early morning before the tower opened (none of the radio equipment I tried to use would work) , then later in the evening (after the tower closed at 8PM local) one 10 minute flight doing ovals around the runway at 500 AGL. >> >> Elevator and rudder light on the controls, ailerons heavy. This will need to be addressed one way or another. >> >> Required 2 or 3 pounds of forward pressure on the stick for level flight. >> >> Indicated airspeed 50-55 MPH, no idea if this is accurate or not. >> >> Takeoff very short, did not attempt minimum speed landings yet. >> >> Ground steering sensitive but effective. >> >> "Deck Angle" in flight was much different than I had imagined. In order to maintain level flight the instrument panel was way way down low below the horizon. Lots lower than where I thought it should be. That is just my inexperience with the Kolb and UL style aircraft in general. >> >> HKS engine ran well once warmed up. No sagging or "wandering" in flight. >> >> Maximum RPM in flight was 5750, I retarded the throttle to keep it below max continuous RPM (5800). Might be adding one degree of pitch to the prop blades. >> >> My biggest mistake was due to inexperience with this type of aircraft.... when I was at 500 AGL it looked to me like I was at 1500 AGL. I thought the altimeter was wrong, but my ground crew and friends said "yep, looked like you were at about 500 feet." I was shocked, I thought I was much higher than that! >> >> Bill Berle >> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft >> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Sat, 8/4/18, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar/HKS Engine Test Run >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com >> Date: Saturday, August 4, 2018, 2:41 PM >> >> My neighbor, who did >> the covering on my Twinstar, used a similar technique, but >> it allows rotating the wing. We pinched the end of a piece >> of water pipe (~1 foot long) so it would slide over that >> attach point, and bolted it. It obviously has a bit of slop >> in the fit, but won't come off. The pipe rests in a >> 'saddle' made with 2 long 2x4s with a shorter one >> between. Height of the center one enough to swing the >> leading edge without hitting the floor. Wing tip on a padded >> saw horse (or table, etc, whatever works for you). Obviously >> requires a helper to move the saw horse while you rotate the >> wing. When you're ready to rib stitch with a helper, >> something lower like a milk crate would be needed. >> Something I wish I'd done while it was >> uncovered is to clip the wing back to the end of the main >> spar. If the wing is clipped, you can just insert something >> in the open end of the spar to support the tip. The end >> could be closed with a plate after covering. I may yet clip >> it. One side of my hangar has a 30' opening, and I could >> keep it on that side instead of the main hangar. >> Charlie >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at >> 3:37 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> >> wrote: >> "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net> >> >> >> >> Sorry I don't have what you are asking for, but here is >> the crude way that I did the MKIII: I have a steel support >> pole in the middle of the garage that supports the upstairs >> floor, and I put a extra long bolt through the rear spar >> pivot point, band clamped it to that pole, and then set the >> leading edge on two milk crates. One crate near the root and >> one near the tip. Worked OK. Not great, but OK. >> >> >> >> Had to put it on sawhorses to do the leading edge top and >> bottom. >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> Richard Pike >> >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:17:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    From: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush@gmail.com>
    My Mark III Xtra also has a nose down position in level flight. It is much different from the 152's, 172's and J-3's that I've flown. I still occasionally find myself climbing thinking that I was descending when I was really flying level. The plus side is that this attitude gives you a fantastic view! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482075#482075


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:29:36 AM PST US
    From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    THANK YOU John H and everyone else for your comments. Please tell me more about a universal joint in the aileron torque tube?!?!? Are you referring to the U-joint in the steel tube under the seat on the aircraft centerline or are you saying there is a U-joint in the aileron tube itself on the wing? My ailerons are very easy to move with two fingers when the aircraft is on the ground, but in flight with air loads on the wings the ailerons are heavy. My INITIAL assessment of the ROOT CAUSE of the problem is that one or more of these things is causing it: 1) Large ailerons that simply need more muscle to move in flight (per John H's comment) 2) Piano hinges are binding because the trailing edge of the wing is not a perfect straight line any more once the wings are lifting 3) The "aluminum aileron leading edge/tube is being asked to move up and down as well as twisting, because the hinge axis is not in the center of the tube I am not loooking for an aerobatic or air combat maneuver airplane, but I am hoping to have the Kolb aileron control as light and responsive and pleasant as the Kolb rudder and elevator are. BTW my giant tall landing gear definitely makes the airplane a little more squirrely on the ground than a stock Kolb would probably be ! But it is manageable thus far. Haven't had any crosswind or gusty situations yet, Time will tell if I bit off more than I can chew with the landing gear :) Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 8/5/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight To: kolb-list@matronics.com Date: Sunday, August 5, 2018, 7:31 AM Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> Billy Berle/Kolbers: I guess it's safe for me to make a comment this morning. I've have a couple cups of coffee. Reread what my friend George H wrote below. Best advice you will get this morning, in my humble opinion. Ailerons on Kolbs are heavy because you have a lot of aileron for that big wing. That's the way Homer Kolb wanted it. His idea of flying a Kolb was low and slow, right down in the tree tops, with plenty of aileron authority right through the stall. Kolbs are not Pitts or F-16s. Don't expect them to be. 34 years ago I was concerned about the heavy ailerons on my Ultrastar, then my Firestar, and my MKIII. Coming out of helicopters it seemed to take a ton of strength to fly it like I would a helicopter. Homer Kolb always told me to be gentle and the Kolb will do what you want it to. It is not a yank and bank airplane. I don't know of any old experienced aviator that flies "yank and bank". Most all are very smooth, gentle pilots, especially on the ground. Slow down...the ailerons will get lighter. Increase speed and increase aileron resistance. Unless you changed something in the aileron controls, they should be ok. Some of the older Firestar II's had some problems! with the Homer designed universal joint on the aileron torque tube. Brother Jim Hauck, while working and helping New Kolb Aircraft get organized in London, KY, in 1998, solved that problem by convincing Kolb to change to a sealed aircraft universal joint. Much more expensive, but a much better system. I got the same sensation when I first flew my Kolb. Felt like I was going to tip over forward. Takes a very short time to get used to level flight attitude. It may be different from "real" airplanes. Over many years I have discovered that a prop, boat and airplane, should be pitched to achieve the rpm red line when flying wide open throttle, straight and level flight. That will give you the best climb and cruise performance with a in flight fixed pitch prop. You probably weren't flying WOT when you were turning 5750, but that seems like a good place to stay until you learn how to fly the Kolb. You can repitch later on down the road when you get some experience flying the bird. Different perception in altitude, now you are experiencing what real flying is all about. Nothing like flying a Kolb. Good luck and be safe, john h mkIII Titus, Alabama George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things. George H. Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth 14GDH Mesick, Michigan gdhelton@gmail.com The Kolb-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - via the Web Forums! - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - Email List Wiki! - List Contribution Web Site - support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:47:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    From: "west1m" <west1m@hotmail.com>
    I was curious about how level my Firefly was after reading the comment about looking down. It looks fairly level in this pic -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482083#482083 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/level_247.jpg


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:30:27 PM PST US
    From: George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    Bill, John H. Is absolutely right. The faster you push the wing through the air, the heavier your ailerons will get. Conversely, the slower you fly the lighter they become. The hinges are only offset of center to provide you with differential effect. That cuts down on adverse yaw. Concentrate on learning to fly your airplane in its present setup. You will find after a few hours that its quite nice to use a little side stick pressure then using a bunch of side stick travel. Your plane sounds like it flying properly. Become more of a flyer and less of an engineer. Learn to land the thing with that strange gear. Keep your airspeed up on approach for the first few hours. Like Homer Kolb said so many years ago. Keep thy airspeed up, lest ye smite the ground. Have a great day! George H. Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth 14GDH Mesick, Michigan gdhelton@gmail.com Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2018, at 2:17 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > THANK YOU John H and everyone else for your comments. Please tell me more about a universal joint in the aileron torque tube?!?!? > > Are you referring to the U-joint in the steel tube under the seat on the aircraft centerline or are you saying there is a U-joint in the aileron tube itself on the wing? > > My ailerons are very easy to move with two fingers when the aircraft is on the ground, but in flight with air loads on the wings the ailerons are heavy. > > My INITIAL assessment of the ROOT CAUSE of the problem is that one or more of these things is causing it: > > 1) Large ailerons that simply need more muscle to move in flight (per John H's comment) > 2) Piano hinges are binding because the trailing edge of the wing is not a perfect straight line any more once the wings are lifting > 3) The "aluminum aileron leading edge/tube is being asked to move up and down as well as twisting, because the hinge axis is not in the center of the tube > > I am not loooking for an aerobatic or air combat maneuver airplane, but I am hoping to have the Kolb aileron control as light and responsive and pleasant as the Kolb rudder and elevator are. > > BTW my giant tall landing gear definitely makes the airplane a little more squirrely on the ground than a stock Kolb would probably be ! But it is manageable thus far. Haven't had any crosswind or gusty situations yet, Time will tell if I bit off more than I can chew with the landing gear :) > > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 8/5/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: > > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, August 5, 2018, 7:31 AM > > Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> > > Billy Berle/Kolbers: > > I guess it's safe for me to make a > comment this morning. I've have a couple cups of > coffee. > > Reread what my friend George H wrote > below. Best advice you will get this morning, in my > humble opinion. > > Ailerons on Kolbs are heavy because you > have a lot of aileron for that big wing. That's the > way Homer Kolb wanted it. His idea of flying a Kolb > was low and slow, right down in the tree tops, with plenty > of aileron authority right through the stall. Kolbs > are not Pitts or F-16s. Don't expect them to be. > 34 years ago I was concerned about the heavy ailerons on my > Ultrastar, then my Firestar, and my MKIII. Coming out of > helicopters it seemed to take a ton of strength to fly it > like I would a helicopter. Homer Kolb always told me > to be gentle and the Kolb will do what you want it to. > It is not a yank and bank airplane. I don't know of > any old experienced aviator that flies "yank and > bank". Most all are very smooth, gentle pilots, > especially on the ground. Slow down...the ailerons > will get lighter. Increase speed and increase aileron > resistance. Unless you changed something in the > aileron controls, they should be ok. Some of the older > Firestar II's had some problems! > with the Homer designed > universal joint on the aileron torque tube. Brother > Jim Hauck, while working and helping New Kolb Aircraft get > organized in London, KY, in 1998, solved that problem by > convincing Kolb to change to a sealed aircraft universal > joint. Much more expensive, but a much better system. > > I got the same sensation when I first > flew my Kolb. Felt like I was going to tip over > forward. Takes a very short time to get used to level > flight attitude. It may be different from "real" > airplanes. > > Over many years I have discovered that > a prop, boat and airplane, should be pitched to achieve the > rpm red line when flying wide open throttle, straight and > level flight. That will give you the best climb and > cruise performance with a in flight fixed pitch prop. > You probably weren't flying WOT when you were turning 5750, > but that seems like a good place to stay until you learn how > to fly the Kolb. You can repitch later on down the > road when you get some experience flying the bird. > > Different perception in altitude, now > you are experiencing what real flying is all about. > Nothing like flying a Kolb. > > Good luck and be safe, > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > > George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> > > Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. > Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons > arent unusual on Kolbs. Id go out and concentrate on > learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things. > George H. > Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth > 14GDH > Mesick, Michigan > gdhelton@gmail.com > > > > > The Kolb-List Email Forum - > Navigator to browse > List Un/Subscription, > 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > via the Web Forums! > - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > Email List Wiki! > - List Contribution Web Site - > support! > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:15:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    From: lcottrell1020 <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
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    Message 12


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    Time: 05:13:42 PM PST US
    From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
    Subject: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    Bill, First, congratulations on your first flight. That is always a milestone no matter how many times you have done it. Second, it sounds like your plane is performing just as it should. My Kolb is a Firefly so my experience is only similar. Third, the other guys are correct. At this point the only reason to go making changes is if you have a serious problem like one wing is so heavy it will barely fly level. Keep flying and getting to know your bird. As long as it is not showing any dangerous traits leave well enough alone until you have become intimate with the flight characteristics over the entire envelope. You can change the mechanical advantage of the aileron push tubes by moving the bottom ends inward but don=99t forget you trade travel distance for that advantage. This may be well and good in calm conditions but believe me when I tell you that I have found myself needing every bit of length of throw at the stick end of things on more than one occasion. It was not my intention to fly in those conditions but they do happen. You sure as heck don=99t want to run out of aileron travel when you need it most. This is most noticeable at slower speeds and where are you likely to be at those slower speeds but on takeoff or approach the most notably critical portions of flight. When you are up cruising around at the upper end of the speed envelope and the ailerons seem =9Cheavy=9D just remember that you don=99t need much movement to accomplish your desires so the amount of force is not that great. The best advice I got when learning to fly the Firefly was to put my elbow on my leg and fly with my fingers. It worked and proved that it really does not take that much force to roll the wings. So keep flying and keep analyzing and keep thinking before you go changing anything. After all your hard work to get airborne go enjoy it! My bet is you will start having so much fun when you are not over thinking things you will actually forget to think about them. Fourth, Congratulations! Now go do it again! Best wishes and safe skies, Stuart From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lcottrell1020 Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 5:15 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight The firestar has heavy ailerons. Nothing much you can do, other than move the control rods closer to the center. I tried it but didn't like it. I have gotten used to using my knees to assist. It's just part of having a Kolb. If you go slow enough they are fine. Too fast and they are stiff. There have been some experiments with spades, but nothing of definite results. You will either get used to it, or get something else. Larry Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight THANK YOU John H and everyone else for your comments. Please tell me more about a universal joint in the aileron torque tube?!?!? Are you referring to the U-joint in the steel tube under the seat on the aircraft centerline or are you saying there is a U-joint in the aileron tube itself on the wing? My ailerons are very easy to move with two fingers when the aircraft is on the ground, but in flight with air loads on the wings the ailerons are heavy. My INITIAL assessment of the ROOT CAUSE of the problem is that one or more of these things is causing it: 1) Large ailerons that simply need more muscle to move in flight (per John H's comment) 2) Piano hinges are binding because the trailing edge of the wing is not a perfect straight line any more once the wings are lifting 3) The "aluminum aileron leading edge/tube is being asked to move up and down as well as twisting, because the hinge axis is not in the center of the tube I am not loooking for an aerobatic or air combat maneuver airplane, but I am hoping to have the Kolb aileron control as light and responsive and pleasant as the Kolb rudder and elevator are. BTW my giant tall landing gear definitely makes the airplane a little more squirrely on the ground than a stock Kolb would probably be ! But it is manageable thus far. Haven't had any crosswind or gusty situations yet, Time will tell if I bit off more than I can chew with the landing gear :) Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 8/5/18, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firestar/HKS First Flight Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> Billy Berle/Kolbers: I guess it's safe for me to make a comment this morning. I've have a couple cups of coffee. Reread what my friend George H wrote below. Best advice you will get this morning, in my humble opinion. Ailerons on Kolbs are heavy because you have a lot of aileron for that big wing. That's the way Homer Kolb wanted it. His idea of flying a Kolb was low and slow, right down in the tree tops, with plenty of aileron authority right through the stall. Kolbs are not Pitts or F-16s. Don't expect them to be. 34 years ago I was concerned about the heavy ailerons on my Ultrastar, then my Firestar, and my MKIII. Coming out of helicopters it seemed to take a ton of strength to fly it like I would a helicopter. Homer Kolb always told me to be gentle and the Kolb will do what you want it to. It is not a yank and bank airplane. I don't know of any old experienced aviator that flies "yank and bank". Most all are very smooth, gentle pilots, especially on the ground. Slow down...the ailerons will get lighter. Increase speed and increase aileron resistance. Unless you changed something in the aileron controls, they should be ok. Some of the older Firestar II's had some problems! with the Homer designed universal joint on the aileron torque tube. Brother Jim Hauck, while working and helping New Kolb Aircraft get organized in London, KY, in 1998, solved that problem by convincing Kolb to change to a sealed aircraft universal joint. Much more expensive, but a much better system. I got the same sensation when I first flew my Kolb. Felt like I was going to tip over forward. Takes a very short time to get used to level flight attitude. It may be different from "real" airplanes. Over many years I have discovered that a prop, boat and airplane, should be pitched to achieve the rpm red line when flying wide open throttle, straight and level flight. That will give you the best climb and cruise performance with a in flight fixed pitch prop. You probably weren't flying WOT when you were turning 5750, but that seems like a good place to stay until you learn how to fly the Kolb. You can repitch later on down the road when you get some experience flying the bird. Different perception in altitude, now you are experiencing what real flying is all about. Nothing like flying a Kolb. Good luck and be safe, john h mkIII Titus, Alabama George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> Congratulations, Bill. Enjoy the view. Sounds like it flew pretty well to me. Heavy ailerons aren=99t unusual on Kolbs. I=99d go out and concentrate on learning to fly your new toy instead of changing things. George H. Firestar, FS100,2702 Hirth 14GDH Mesick, Michigan gdhelton@gmail.com The Kolb-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - via the Web Forums! - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - Email List Wiki! - List Contribution Web Site - support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:18:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Firestar/HKS First Flight
    From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
    Plan to fly for many hours with the ailerons just like they are. Heavy ailerons are perfectly normal for a Kolb. Once you know your airplane inside out, you might want to try drilling a couple of holes in the aileron bellcrank a bit closer to the pivot point and moving the bottom ends of the aileron pushrods closer to the pivot; it will change the leverage arm and the ailerons will become much lighter. You will lose some aileron deflection. Possibly some control authority. Some on this list think that is anathema, others are comfortable with it. Your call. But after you have 50-75 hours in your airplane, you will be able to decide for yourself, and if you don't like it; you can put them back like they were. In the meantime, everything that Stuart, John and Larry - among others - have said is absolutely correct. Kolbs have heavy ailerons, and they fly just fine with heavy ailerons. So do Stearmans. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482102#482102




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