---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/18/18: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:58 AM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Bill) 2. 08:14 AM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (George Helton) 3. 09:32 AM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (John Hauck) 4. 09:47 AM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Larry Cottrell) 5. 11:04 AM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Rex Rodebush) 6. 01:01 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Bill) 7. 04:20 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Richard Pike) 8. 04:41 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (George Helton) 9. 05:40 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Richard Pike) 10. 05:58 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (George Helton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle From: Bill Just finished a 30 minute test flight. Aircraft improved by both the tape seal on the aileron gap and the trim tabs on elevator. Hands off at 40 mph at 4750-4800 rpm. 48-50 mph at 5300-5400 rpm with very light forward pressure on stick. Rudder trim for some reason was better than last flight even with no change. Still need a small additional bend in rudder trim tab. This flight was still WITH the raised stabilizer angle, but with the addition of the elevator trim tab. Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Richard Pike wrote: > > >John Hauck wrote: >> Is the tail boom adjustable? >> >> john h >> mkIII >> Titus, Alabama >> >> -- > > >Well, it sorta is - but then the airplane gets even more difficult to trim... > >-------- >Richard Pike >Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > >Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482500#482500 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/outoftrim_133.jpeg > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:25 AM PST US From: George Helton Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle Sounds like youre making some positive progress,Bill. Those aileron gap seals make a big difference. Both in speed and handling. George H. Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth 14GDH Mesick, Michigan gdhelton@gmail.com Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2018, at 10:57 AM, Bill wrote: > > > Just finished a 30 minute test flight. Aircraft improved by both the tape seal on the aileron gap and the trim tabs on elevator. Hands off at 40 mph at 4750-4800 rpm. 48-50 mph at 5300-5400 rpm with very light forward pressure on stick. Rudder trim for some reason was better than last flight even with no change. Still need a small additional bend in rudder trim tab. This flight was still WITH the raised stabilizer angle, but with the addition of the elevator trim tab. > > Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T > > Richard Pike wrote: > >> >> >> John Hauck wrote: >>> Is the tail boom adjustable? >>> >>> john h >>> mkIII >>> Titus, Alabama >>> >>> -- >> >> >> Well, it sorta is - but then the airplane gets even more difficult to trim... >> >> -------- >> Richard Pike >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> >> Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482500#482500 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/outoftrim_133.jpeg >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:44 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle If it was me, I'd experiment with the horz stab in the normal position and go to larger elevator trim tabs and play with the angle of the tab. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle Just finished a 30 minute test flight. Aircraft improved by both the tape seal on the aileron gap and the trim tabs on elevator. Hands off at 40 mph at 4750-4800 rpm. 48-50 mph at 5300-5400 rpm with very light forward pressure on stick. Rudder trim for some reason was better than last flight even with no change. Still need a small additional bend in rudder trim tab. This flight was still WITH the raised stabilizer angle, but with the addition of the elevator trim tab. Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Richard Pike wrote: > > >John Hauck wrote: >> Is the tail boom adjustable? >> >> john h >> mkIII >> Titus, Alabama >> >> -- > > >Well, it sorta is - but then the airplane gets even more difficult to trim... > >-------- >Richard Pike >Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > >Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482500#482500 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/outoftrim_133.jpeg > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:38 AM PST US From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 8:57 AM, Bill wrote: > > Just finished a 30 minute test flight. Aircraft improved by both the tape > seal on the aileron gap and the trim tabs on elevator. Hands off at 40 mph > at 4750-4800 rpm. 48-50 mph at 5300-5400 rpm with very light forward > pressure on stick. Rudder trim for some reason was better than last flight > even with no change. Still need a small additional bend in rudder trim tab. > This flight was still WITH the raised stabilizer angle, but with the > addition of the elevator trim tab. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe that I mentioned before that without an adjustable trim tab, your only option is to trim for what you consider "cruise" RPM's. Mine is 5400. That gives me the most speed for the least amount of gas expended. When I increase the RPM's it begins to climb, which is the proper function of power anyway. I went over to the ranch to check for stuck cows in the pothole field, and I was in a hurry, so I was turning around 5800 (max continued power) and of course the plane was climbing at about 300 fpm and I had to use a lot of forward pressure on the stick to try to keep at the altitude that I wanted to fly. It came to mind that this could possibly be what you are talking about as a problem? I had never paid attention before because it is just the way that Kolbs fly. Is it possible that you are expecting your kolb to fly like a 172, cause it "ain't gonna happen". In essence it could be possible that some of the things that are worrying you, could just be the normal reaction of the aircraft that you are flying. Now I know that you might be a bit delicate, but none of this is intended to insult you. Larry *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle From: "Rex Rodebush" When get your weights it might not be a bad idea to pick two different datum's and run the numbers as a check. The CG should be the same. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482520#482520 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle From: Bill I'm not delicate by any stretch... I always felt that any time I held up my end of a good argument here lots of people got their panties in a twist :) Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Larry Cottrell wrote: >On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 8:57 AM, Bill wrote: > >> >> Just finished a 30 minute test flight. Aircraft improved by both the tape >> seal on the aileron gap and the trim tabs on elevator. Hands off at 40 mph >> at 4750-4800 rpm. 48-50 mph at 5300-5400 rpm with very light forward >> pressure on stick. Rudder trim for some reason was better than last flight >> even with no change. Still need a small additional bend in rudder trim tab. >> This flight was still WITH the raised stabilizer angle, but with the >> addition of the elevator trim tab. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >I believe that I mentioned before that without an adjustable trim tab, your >only option is to trim for what you consider "cruise" RPM's. Mine is 5400. >That gives me the most speed for the least amount of gas expended. When I >increase the RPM's it begins to climb, which is the proper function of >power anyway. > >I went over to the ranch to check for stuck cows in the pothole field, and >I was in a hurry, so I was turning around 5800 (max continued power) and of >course the plane was climbing at about 300 fpm and I had to use a lot of >forward pressure on the stick to try to keep at the altitude that I wanted >to fly. It came to mind that this could possibly be what you are talking >about as a problem? I had never paid attention before because it is just >the way that Kolbs fly. Is it possible that you are expecting your kolb to >fly like a 172, cause it "ain't gonna happen". In essence it could be >possible that some of the things that are worrying you, could just be the >normal reaction of the aircraft that you are flying. Now I know that you >might be a bit delicate, but none of this is intended to insult you. > >Larry >*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of >others.* > >*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email >address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle From: "Richard Pike" Just thinking about elevator trim tabs - I have a small one on my MKIII because when I first flew it there was was one speed and throttle setting where it wanted to do something wonky - too long ago, can't remember what it was. Also that was before I could slightly reflex or droop the flaps while in flight, so the elevator trim tab is probably unnecessary now. Or maybe not - I'm not changing anything. Anyway, on the MKIII, the elevator trim tab is optimized for solo flight, it has a spring loaded trim lever that is used when carrying a passenger because there are radical trim changes when you add a passenger. The MKIII spring system works good, no problem. Then there is the Firefly; we built it with this little spring loaded device on the front of the stick because pitch trim changes depending on how much fuel you have left. This is more than sufficient, you only have to move it a notch or two from full fuel to minimum fuel. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277 Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482525#482525 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_139.jpeg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:37 PM PST US From: George Helton Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle Hi Richard. Did you get the little beast back in the air yet? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2018, at 7:20 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > > Just thinking about elevator trim tabs - I have a small one on my MKIII because when I first flew it there was was one speed and throttle setting where it wanted to do something wonky - too long ago, can't remember what it was. Also that was before I could slightly reflex or droop the flaps while in flight, so the elevator trim tab is probably unnecessary now. Or maybe not - I'm not changing anything. > > Anyway, on the MKIII, the elevator trim tab is optimized for solo flight, it has a spring loaded trim lever that is used when carrying a passenger because there are radical trim changes when you add a passenger. The MKIII spring system works good, no problem. > > Then there is the Firefly; we built it with this little spring loaded device on the front of the stick because pitch trim changes depending on how much fuel you have left. This is more than sufficient, you only have to move it a notch or two from full fuel to minimum fuel. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277 > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482525#482525 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_139.jpeg > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle From: "Richard Pike" [quote="gdhelton(at)gmail.com"]Hi Richard. Did you get the little beast back in the air yet? [quote] Nope. The primary source of our problems was using a free air engine when we should have been using fan cooled. Purchased an old fan cooled Rotax 277, now working on swapping around the best of several cranks, pistons, sleeves, etc. Then got to figure out new motor mounts. Only flown the MKIII once this summer, too many projects. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277 Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482529#482529 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:52 PM PST US From: George Helton Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle Ok, I was just wondering how that project was going. Good luck. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2018, at 8:40 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > > [quote="gdhelton(at)gmail.com"]Hi Richard. Did you get the little beast back in the air yet? > [quote] > Nope. The primary source of our problems was using a free air engine when we should have been using fan cooled. Purchased an old fan cooled Rotax 277, now working on swapping around the best of several cranks, pistons, sleeves, etc. Then got to figure out new motor mounts. > Only flown the MKIII once this summer, too many projects. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277 > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482529#482529 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.