Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:46 PM - Identity Crisis (Bill Berle)
2. 07:34 PM - Re: Identity Crisis (Richard Pike)
3. 07:35 PM - Re: Identity Crisis (George Alexander)
4. 07:46 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Gary Aman)
5. 08:56 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Bill Berle)
6. 08:56 PM - Re: Kolbers in Florida (big Al)
7. 10:26 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Richard Girard)
8. 11:10 PM - Re: Stabilizer Angle (Bill Berle)
Message 1
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Subject: | lb-List:Identity Crisis |
On the Kolb list, there have been several references by Richard Pike to the Kolb
Mark 3 N420P, and the website oh2fly.net, with several modifications and upgrades
to this aircraft. But the website appears to be George Alexander's website,
again listing this same aircraft.
Since I'm new around here, can someone explain how this aircraft N420P is associated
with two different people? Richard is is you who did all the modifications,
upgrades, fine tuning, and interesting stuff to "Old Poops", or was it George
Alexander??? Is he the Grey Baron or are you?
I'm confused.....
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/20/18, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, August 20, 2018, 9:41 PM
Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
Adding VG's to the wing or the
underside of the stab/elevator causes no pitch change.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal
w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is
wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482602#482602
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Identity Crisis |
Not complicated, but not obvious either. For a number of years our church website
(bcchapel) hosted a lot of personal pages. (We bought a package as that was
the cheapest way to go, and I and a number of other people in the church availed
themselves of free bandwidth and put up their own web pages)
Several years ago we dissolved the church and joined another larger congregation,
and terminated the website. George Alexander graciously offered to host my
Kolb page, and so I am now a subsidiary (?) client (?) hanger-on (?) moocher (?)
of his web page hosting. It is his page, and I am merely a beneficiary, tagging
along on his bandwidth.
So if you want to email me, it is thegreybaron(at)charter.net
The real Grey Baron was Bob Noyer, a distinguished contributor to this list for
many years. He is gone now, so when we lost our church web site, (bcchapel.org)
I could no longer be richardatbcchapel.org, so I adopted thegreybaronatcharterdotnet
in honor of Bob.
Thanks again, George!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal w/potentially functional Rotax 277 (it went together
today)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482616#482616
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Identity Crisis |
Richard:You explain it to Bill Berle.George
On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:46 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.
net> wrote:
On the Kolb list, there have been several references by Richard Pike to the
Kolb Mark 3 N420P, and the website oh2fly.net, with several modifications
and upgrades to this aircraft. But the website appears to be George Alexand
er's website, again listing this same aircraft.
Since I'm new around here, can someone explain how this aircraft N420P is a
ssociated with two different people? Richard is is you who did all the modi
fications, upgrades, fine tuning, and interesting stuff to "Old Poops", or
was it George Alexander??? Is he the Grey Baron or are you?
I'm confused.....
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com=C2- - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraf
t
www.grantstar.net =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - winning proposals fo
r non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/20/18, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, August 20, 2018, 9:41 PM
Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
Adding VG's to the wing or the
underside of the stab/elevator causes no pitch change.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal=C2-
w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is
wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482602#482602
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
=C2- =C2-=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
=C2- =C2- - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
=C2-=C2- - List Contribution Web Site -
support!
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle |
my Firestar was heavy with Aerothane paint 417# empty,but within the cg range spec.It
required forward stick.I raised the horizontal in 1/2 increments to a max
of 2 1/2 above stock.still needed a trim spring (nose down).But it wallowed
around in rough air like a boat climbing over a wake before returning to level
flight.I added two small bags of shot, cannot remember the weight,sorry,to the
nose cone which put it closer to the forward limit.I could not believe the
difference that it made in the stability and handling.I then dropped the stabilizer
down to about 1over stock and thats how it flew for the next 700 hrs.a 503
with an IVO and oil injection,5200 rpm static and 70mph at 5500rpm.I loved
that FS. G.Aman FS2 503 750hrs MK3C jabiru 2200A 1060hrs
> O n Aug 20, 2018, at 9:58 PM, Bill <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Full throttle on takeoff and climbout gives me 5700-5800 rpm which is max continuous
power. This yields 40-45mph climbing. I have not done extended full power
in level flight yet but based on what I have seen so far I would expect 50-52mph
and 6000 rpm. Brand new Tiny Tach installed per direct verbal installation
instructions on the phone with their tech guy. Airspeed indicator tested
with this same air probe stuck out thru the car sunroof, measured same as my
car speedometer. Unless experienced Kolbers suggest otherwise, I will put on the
short windshield as the next change. How much speed is typical improvement
going from round to streamline struts??
>
> Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T
>
> Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Very glad it is not a CG problem and that it has been definitively ruled out.
Sorry for the extra work, but the symptoms called for the effort to be expended.
>>
>> So now, we know that changing the angle of the horizontal stabilizers helped
with the issue considerably even if it is "out of spec".
>>
>> We have already discussed the wing center section gap seal, and that would be
my next area of experimentation. After all you can change that without making
any structural changes and it is easy to go back to what you have.
>>
>> Another thought has occurred to me about your low airspeeds. A few questions:
>>
>> Have you done a static full power run to make sure you are getting proper RPM's?
>> Or
>> Have you done a full power run in the air while straight and level?
>>
>> Have you confirmed your tachometer with another device?
>>
>> Have you confirmed your ASI (I know you changed the pitot/static setup) to verify
that you are truly getting what you are seeing?
>>
>> Idea for next flight. While straight and level, go to full throttle and see
what happens. You only have to maintain it long enough to get a stable tachometer
reading and to see what forces are required at the stick.
>>
>> At this point I am just tossing out random thoughts in hopes that something
ticks in your mind to say "hey, what if I did this?".
>>
>> Hang in there, we're all pulling for you to figure this out.
>>
>> Some people like mysteries, I rather tent to like the solutions!
>>
>> Keep us informed,
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 3:35 PM
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle
>>
>>
>> OK we just did a second weight and balance to settle this issue. The aircraft
was specifically put in the same configuration as it has been flown. Pilot wearing
clothes, shoes, helmet, and a total of 6.5 gallons of fuel. Same digital
scales. THIS Kolb has different landing gear legs than stock! Datum was wheel
axles. Wing leading edge was 3.5" forward of datum. Main gear weights 331 and
300. Tail weight 67. Center of gravity was 18.36" aft of datun which is 21.86"
aft of leading edge. 21.86" is 34.15% of the 64" wing chord specified by Kolb.
So my CG is 34.15% which is significantly forward of the factory approved
maximum of 37%. Actual flight weight in this configuration is 698 pounds, 27
pounds under gross weight. Empty weight, removing the weight of fuel and oil,
works out to approx. 430. Heavier engine, tires, gear legs, exhaust, battery,
and it had been painted twice.
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T
>>
>> John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That's a good system on the FF. I have also seen this accomplished
>>> using a small lever instead of hooks.
>>>
>>> john h
>>> mkIII
>>> Titus, Alabama
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then there is the Firefly; we built it with this little spring loaded
>>> device on the front of the stick because pitch trim changes depending
>>> on how much fuel you have left. This is more than sufficient, you only
>>> have to move it a notch or two from full fuel to minimum fuel.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Richard Pike
>>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>>> Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277
>>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle |
My proposed order of modifications is as follows:
First, I want to put the windshield on, because that is one of the big differences
between a "normal" Kolb and mine. Perhaps this will push the nose down a little
bit. It will also add a few pounds to the front, which cannot hurt. John
H mentioned that it was unlikely that the windshield would make a big difference,
so I am not expecting a miracle, but the windshield adds comfort anyway and
it's easy to put it on.
Second, if the windshield does not do much, I will try the suggestion that John
H and several others made, droop the ailerons a tiny little bit at a time and
see if that brings the nose down. If it does bring the nose down without making
the Firestar noticeably slower, then I will continue drooping the ailerons
and lowering the stabilizer angle a little bit at a time. That will make a lot
of people less nervous about this particular Kolb.
Although the CG is within the factory spec, the third option is that I can start
looking into what it will take to move the fuel tanks forward. This is not the
most desirable option for me, because it will require structural modification
and cutting perfectly good fabric off of the fuselage. But the way it is now
I cannot allow other pilots lighter than me to fly the aircraft safely, and
if I keep losing weight like I should then it will get closer and closer to being
tail-heavy for real. This also seems to not make sense, because no other Kolbs
that I know of NEEDED to move the fuel forward. I have seen website photos
of Kolb owners that did it, but there are hundreds and hundreds of Kolbs that
did not NEED this in order to balance the aircraft.
There are several other options and possibilities, but none of these directly answer
the big mystery of how and why a Firestar that is within the factory CG
range, with a 210 pound pilot, would need a nose-down push on the stick.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/20/18, Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, August 20, 2018, 8:30 PM
Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
Guys thank you all again for going down
this bizarre rabbit hole with me.
The aircraft flies reasonably well as
it is now, with stabilizer jacked up "way too high" and
additional trim tabs on the elevator. If I lowered the
stabilizer back down then I would be going back to holding a
lot of forward pressure on the stick, which I do not need or
want to do.The only other option is a very very large trim
tab ont he elevator, which would likely be 10-12% of the
size of the elevator. This is also a lot less desirable to
me. A large trim tab adds weight on the un-safe side of the
elevator (for flutter issues),a nd also drags in the weeds
when you are on the ground.
Again, as it is right now I have 4
degrees of positive "decalage" angle at my current setting.
This is relatively safe and very similar to Cessnas and J-3
Cubs and other "regular" airplanes.This tells me that the
stock plans-built Kolb has something a lot more than that,
maybe 8 or 10 degrees of decalage??? Wouldn't THAT sound
excessive ?
I have not heard back from Duane at
Kolb Aircraft. When we last spoke he said he would talk with
Bryan and get back to me via e-mail. I have no idea if they
have just not gotten to it yet, or whether Bryan decideed
that me and my airplane were just too crazy to get involved
with :)
Forgive me for being repetitive, but
for reference, at this stage we have the following known
configuration:
Wing incidence measurement is almost
perfectly matched to the measurement given to me by Duane at
Kolb.
Tail boom tube length has not been
shortened form a stock Firestar 2.
Fuselage tube structure is not
obviously bent or patched, so the "upward angle" of the boom
tube is likely the same as a stock FS2.
Weight and balance verified at 34.15%
of chord, clearly within Kolb's acceptable range for safe
filght (20-37 %).
One or two people have suggested that
perhaps my exhaust coming out of the muffler is creating
anose-up pitch, because the muffler is underneath the
aircraft. I do not believe this is the case, because I have
flown at low power settings, and the nose did not fall
downward (which it would have done if the muffler "thrust"
was lifting the nose).
Perhaps all the effort I put in over
months of screwing around, to keep the thrust line as low as
possible, has hurt me ? If the Kolb wing and stabilizer
angle were designed for a thrust line that was farther above
the aircraft , and mine is a lot lower, then THAT would
perhaps explain how there is a nose-up pitch... because the
designers at Kolb were assuming I would have a higher thrust
line that would push the nose down some ???
My thurst line (center of propeller) is
33.25 inches above the TOP of the tailboom tube. Is this
significantly LOWER than most of the other Firestars? What
is the height of the center or the prop above other Kolbers
Firestar tailboom tubes?
If everybody else's thrust line is 36
or 38 inches above the tailoom tube, then everyone else
would have the engine pushing the nose down more than I do.
If Kolb designed the Firestar's wing and tail angles for a
thrust oline that was 36 or 38 inches high, and I only have
33.25 inches, then at least THAT would explain why my
aircraft wanted to pitch upward and the other Kolbers don't
have that problem.
Another possibility is that having any
windshield on the aircraft creates a nose-down pitch, and
since I have no windshield then that nose-down pitch is
missing on my aircraft.Again this sounds implausible, but it
would explain this strange situation.
Also, I have never flown mine without
the VG's on the wing or tail. I had them on the first
flight. Any Kolbers who have installed VG's... did this
cause your aircraft to start pitching up where it did not do
that without VG's???
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety &
performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net -
winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/20/18, George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer
Angle
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, August 20, 2018, 7:51
PM
George
Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com>
Bill, those figures dont sound
that
bad to me. Im running a different
engine of course. My
original Firestars best climb rate
is right at 45/46 mph.
Straight and level 5500 rpm in calm
air is 64/66 mph. That
does require lots of forward stick
pressure. It likes to
cruise at 4800 to 5200rpm @ 52/55 mph.
Obviously were
running two completely different
engines. My max. hp is 40 @
5500rpm, thats what I consider max.
rpm even though
its actually 5800. My max. torque
is 49ft.lbs @ 4800.
So, airframe-wise( I dont think
thats actually a word?) I think the
performance numbers
are in the ballpark. It would be nice
to bring the
horizontal stabilizer back where it
belongs. But, its
your decision. Keep tinkering. And
enjoy some flying.
Aero liftstruts? They claim 6 to 8
mph.
But, that sounds alittle iffy to me?
But, I did order a set
of 3:1 aero fairings for mine so
Ill let you know how
they work, like maybe next week. I
think I just threw some
money down the drain?
George H.
Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 20, 2018, at 9:58 PM,
Bill
<victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted
by: Bill <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Full throttle on takeoff and
climbout gives me 5700-5800 rpm
which is max
continuous power. This yields 40-45mph
climbing. I have not
done extended full power in level
flight yet but based on
what I have seen so far I would expect
50-52mph and 6000
rpm. Brand new Tiny Tach installed per
direct verbal
installation instructions on the
phone with their tech
guy. Airspeed indicator tested with
this same air probe
stuck out thru the car sunroof,
measured same as my car
speedometer. Unless experienced
Kolbers suggest otherwise, I
will put on the short windshield as
the next change. How
much speed is typical improvement
going from round to
streamline struts??
>
> Sent from my Samsung
Captivate(tm)
on AT&T
>
> Stuart Harner <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message
posted by: "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Very glad it is not a CG
problem and that it has been
definitively ruled out. Sorry
for the extra work, but the symptoms
called for the effort
to be expended.
>>
>> So now, we know that
changing
the angle of the horizontal
stabilizers helped with the
issue considerably even if it is "out
of spec".
>>
>> We have already discussed
the
wing center section gap seal, and that
would be my next area
of experimentation. After all you can
change that without
making any structural changes and it
is easy to go back to
what you have.
>>
>> Another thought has occurred
to me about your low airspeeds. A few
questions:
>>
>> Have you done a static full
power run to make sure you are getting
proper RPM's?
>> Or
>> Have you done a full power
run
in the air while straight and level?
>>
>> Have you confirmed your
tachometer with another device?
>>
>> Have you confirmed your ASI
(I
know you changed the pitot/static
setup) to verify that you
are truly getting what you are
seeing?
>>
>> Idea for next flight. While
straight and level, go to full
throttle and see what
happens. You only have to maintain it
long enough to get a
stable tachometer reading and to see
what forces are
required at the stick.
>>
>> At this point I am just
tossing out random thoughts in hopes
that something ticks in
your mind to say "hey, what if I did
this?".
>>
>> Hang in there, we're all
pulling for you to figure this out.
>>
>> Some people like mysteries,
I
rather tent to like the solutions!
>>
>> Keep us informed,
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill
>> Sent: Monday, August 20,
2018
3:35 PM
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE:
Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle
>>
>> --> Kolb-List message
posted by: Bill <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> OK we just did a second
weight
and balance to settle this issue. The
aircraft was
specifically put in the same
configuration as it has been
flown. Pilot wearing clothes, shoes,
helmet, and a total of
6.5 gallons of fuel. Same digital
scales. THIS Kolb has
different landing gear legs than
stock! Datum was wheel
axles. Wing leading edge was 3.5"
forward of datum. Main
gear weights 331 and 300. Tail
weight 67. Center of
gravity was 18.36" aft of datun which
is 21.86" aft of
leading edge. 21.86" is 34.15% of the
64" wing chord
specified by Kolb. So my CG is 34.15%
which is significantly
forward of the factory approved
maximum of 37%. Actual
flight weight in this configuration is
698 pounds, 27 pounds
under gross weight. Empty weight,
removing the weight of
fuel and oil, works out to approx.
430. Heavier engine,
tires, gear legs, exhaust, battery,
and it had been painted
twice.
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung
Captivate(tm) on AT&T
>>
>> John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kolb-List message
posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>>>
>>> That's a good system on
the FF. I have also seen this
accomplished
>>> using a small lever
instead of hooks.
>>>
>>> john h
>>> mkIII
>>> Titus, Alabama
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --> Kolb-List message
posted by: "Richard Pike"
>>> --> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then there is the
Firefly;
we built it with this little spring
loaded
>>> device on the front of
the
stick because pitch trim changes
depending
>>> on how much fuel you
have
left. This is more than sufficient,
you only
>>> have to move it a notch
or
two from full fuel to minimum fuel.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Richard Pike
>>> Kolb MKIII N420P
(420ldPoops)
>>> Kolb Firefly Part 103
legal w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax
277
>>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site
-
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 6
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Subject: | Kolbers in Florida |
I'm in Lakeland Fl
My firefly is at x49 south Lakeland Airpark
Call or email me
Al 863. 838 0334. Skydiveal@ AOL.com
Give you as much one on one with a kolb as you need! anytime you are welcom
e.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Monday, August 20, 2018 Robpen5557 <kolb-list@matronics.com> wrote:
Looking for any Kolbers in Florida. I had contact with Al Rodenbush from La
keland. But, haven=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t been able to contact him. Hope
everything is okay with him. I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m planning a trip to
visit my Dad in late Sept. early October. Wanted to visit someone along the
way who has a completed Kold I could look at and possiblely see the wings
fold. I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m traveling from Texas through Louisiana sou
th on I49 to I10 all the way to Lake City where I head south on I75. Please
contact me if you or someone you know has a Kolb I could check out. I went
to Oshkosh but The only had a firefly and wearn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t f
olding the wings.. Plus they were being pelted with questions from all dire
ctions. So, I still would like to sit in one, who knows ride if possible. A
t least see one up close and perhaps fold the wings once. I=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2m not adverse to going out of my way 50 or even a hundred miles to
see a Kolb.
Thank You
Robert Lobdell
Waskom, Texas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482575#482575
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Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle |
Bill, Can't speak for the Firestar but I expect it would be similar to the
Mk III. A proper gap seal and covering the lower frame on the Mk III
DOUBLED its climb rate and greatly relieved stick pressure. The PFH had the
opposite pitch issue, she was a lawn dart. I reset the wing angle of
incidence to the least angle recommended by Kolb and lowered the horizontal
stabilizer incidence and she still needed small trim tabs on the elevators.
Then she flew with fingertip pressure on the stick.
When you do get the HS where you want it, consider making seals for the gap
between the HS and the boom tube. If it responds like the Mk III you'll
find the rudder effectiveness much improved, to the point that you can
level the wings while in a stall just like a 172, something a stock Mk III
will not do.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 11:41 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
wrote:
>
>
> Adding VG's to the wing or the underside of the stab/elevator causes no
> pitch change.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really i
s
> amazing.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482602#482602
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
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Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle |
Thank you Rick, but can you clarify what you mean by covering the lower frame?
Do you mean the lower fuselage frame below the fuel tanks, or are you referring
to the frame behind the cockpit under the wing, or something else.
I have taped up the gap between the wing and aileron, including the torque tube.
It seemed to make a difference but I was not set up for measuring anything.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 8/21/18, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle
To: "kolb-list@matronics.com" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2018, 9:00 AM
Bill, Can't speak
for the Firestar but I expect it would be similar to the Mk
III. A proper gap seal and covering the lower frame on the
Mk III DOUBLED its climb rate and greatly relieved stick
pressure. The PFH had the opposite pitch issue, she was a
lawn dart. I reset the wing angle of incidence to the least
angle recommended by Kolb and lowered the horizontal
stabilizer incidence and she still needed small trim tabs on
the elevators. Then she flew with fingertip pressure on the
stick.When you do get the HS where you want it,
consider making seals for the gap between the HS and the
boom tube. If it responds like the Mk III you'll find
the rudder effectiveness much improved, to the point that
you can level the wings while in a stall just like a 172,
something a stock Mk III will not do.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Aug 20, 2018
at 11:41 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
wrote:
"Richard Pike" <thegreybaron@charter.net>
Adding VG's to the wing or the underside of the
stab/elevator causes no pitch change.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax
277
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and
God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/
viewtopic.php?p=482602#482602
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Blessed
are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
Marx
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