Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:06 AM - Re: Defend Your Turf (George Helton)
2. 06:27 AM - Re: Defend Your Turf (Kolburner)
3. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: Defend Your Turf (Gary Aman)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: Defend Your Turf (Kolburner)
5. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: Defend Your Turf (George Helton)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: Defend Your Turf (George Helton)
7. 10:53 AM - landing (Larry Cottrell)
8. 11:45 AM - Re: landing (west1m)
9. 12:11 PM - Re: landing (George Helton)
10. 12:27 PM - Re: landing (George Alexander)
11. 12:32 PM - Re: Re: landing (George Helton)
12. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: Defend Your Turf (George Helton)
13. 12:50 PM - Re: landing (George Helton)
14. 01:42 PM - Re: landing (Larry Cottrell)
15. 02:00 PM - Re: Defend Your Turf (Richard Pike)
16. 02:01 PM - Re: Defend Your Turf (Kolburner)
17. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: Defend Your Turf (George Helton)
18. 05:56 PM - Re: Defend Your Turf (John Hauck)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
There are many videos on YouTube of super short field landings. I have landed at
the airport in Big Bear, California, the elevation there is 6800 msl. Landing
was a no brainer. The takeoff was the longest takeoff roll Ive ever made in
a Kolb. But, that was in a single carb, MKII with a passenger on board. I personally
think it wouldnt be a big deal landing or taking off with a Kolb Firestar
II or Firefly at your strip. Density altitude would have to be considered
on warmer or humid days. Just my opinion. George
George H.
Firestar,FS100,2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 10, 2018, at 10:55 PM, Kolburner <clayton991@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Kolb folks,
> I may buy a Kolb. I like a whole lot of things about them. Too many to list here
right now. But....I operate out of a 1,000 foot long dirt strip at an elevation
of 3,800 feet, no obstacles. Now, even 1,000 feet shouldn't be too short
for an airplane that only weighs 400 pounds and stalls at 27 mph. And yet, pretty
much everyone, and I mean everyone I see in videos, lands these airplanes
with at least an '80% above stall speed' cushion, watching hundreds of feet of
runway disappear behind them. I've read about the 'Kolb quit', which seems to
me to be a "whoops, I stalled" kinda thing, and of course we don't want that
too high above the ground. But still, even the "Kolb short field landing" (and
t/o for that matter) demonstrations are not even remotely respectable. Can't
a Kolb with a competent pilot be put down in a real short distance? Sure they
can. But I'm not seeing it. Please straighten me out here. Thx
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483087#483087
>
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>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
Thank you George for replying. Helpful information. I've been into Big Bear with
some much higher hp certified acft that didn't do any better than your Kolb.
DA, of course, does play a role. Most of our low hp flying around here is done
by 800a.
I've gotten a couple of other PMs from my post that have been helpful, too. I knew
these super-light aircraft could perform in short field operations, I just
haven't seen good examples.
Does anyone have any links they could share?
Thx!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483095#483095
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
What part of the country is home for you?
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 9:27 AM, Kolburner <clayton991@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you George for replying. Helpful information. I've been into Big Bear with
some much higher hp certified acft that didn't do any better than your Kolb.
DA, of course, does play a role. Most of our low hp flying around here is done
by 800a.
> I've gotten a couple of other PMs from my post that have been helpful, too. I
knew these super-light aircraft could perform in short field operations, I just
haven't seen good examples.
> Does anyone have any links they could share?
> Thx!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483095#483095
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
New Mexico.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483100#483100
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
Keep thy airspeed up lest ye mite the ground. Quote from Homer Kolbs Firestar Builders
manual, 1985.
These little birds slow down quickly.
George H.
Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth
14 GDH
Mesick, Michigan
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Kolburner <clayton991@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> New Mexico.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483100#483100
>
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>
>
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>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
Personally I would do one or two things. With the aircraft completely assembled
and fueled ready to fly and me in seat. Id take 3 sets of scales and calculate
a complete weight and balance. Have friend read the scales for you . Rotate
the the scales and average for accuracy. Choose any datum point you like. Use
a 30 tape measure and plum-Bob. Nose, Seat, leading edge, whatever. Be sure to
elevate the tail to flight altitude. Dont quote me but I believe it is around
9 degrees measured on the bottom of a inboard wing rib. I believeyour c/g should
far between 21 and 34 percent of the cord of the wing as measured from the
leading edge. Again these figures are from memory and Im old.
The second thing Id probably do. Which is just me, so dont jump all over me guys.
Just go fly the thing and see how it feels for a few hours.
If its got 65 hours on it? It obvious can fly.
George H.
Firestar
Mesick, Michigan
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 9:27 AM, Kolburner <clayton991@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you George for replying. Helpful information. I've been into Big Bear with
some much higher hp certified acft that didn't do any better than your Kolb.
DA, of course, does play a role. Most of our low hp flying around here is done
by 800a.
> I've gotten a couple of other PMs from my post that have been helpful, too. I
knew these super-light aircraft could perform in short field operations, I just
haven't seen good examples.
> Does anyone have any links they could share?
> Thx!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483095#483095
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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|
https://vimeo.com/289329542
Here is a quick and dirty landing which is not at all the best that one can
do, but it will give you some idea.
Larry
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 8
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Nothing wrong with that landing, looks well within his 1000' needs
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483114#483114
Message 9
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Larry, I can=99t remember your password. Can=99t see your landin
g without it.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:53 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> wrot
e:
>
> https://vimeo.com/289329542
>
> Here is a quick and dirty landing which is not at all the best that one ca
n do, but it will give you some idea.
> Larry
>
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of oth
ers.
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addre
ss before sending.
Message 10
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Larry et al:Couldn't have a better testimonial for the Kolb (and the pilot)!
On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 1:54 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://vimeo.com/289329542
Here is a quick and dirty landing which is not at all the best that one can do,
but it will give you some idea.Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before
sending.
Message 11
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That looked like good short field to me. And hes right, its all about speed control.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 2:44 PM, west1m <west1m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Nothing wrong with that landing, looks well within his 1000' needs
>
> --------
> West1m
> Hastings, MN
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483114#483114
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
https://youtu.be/cNwCFaDGAWQ
https://youtu.be/bkBPrLUMYlM
These two might impress you? It all about airspeed and of course practice.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Kolburner <clayton991@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> New Mexico.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483100#483100
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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|
Here=99s one that I shot last week. Simply because I don=99t lik
e bouncing down the whole runway. It=99s well under that 1000=99
https://youtu.be/IA7C6KGFTvo
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 3:26 PM, George Alexander <gtalexander@att.net> wrote:
>
> Larry et al:
> Couldn't have a better testimonial for the Kolb (and the pilot)!
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 1:54 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmai
l.com> wrote:
>
>
> https://vimeo.com/289329542
>
> Here is a quick and dirty landing which is not at all the best that one ca
n do, but it will give you some idea.
> Larry
>
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of oth
ers.
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addre
ss before sending.
>
>
Message 14
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|
This one doesn't require a password.
Larry
On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 1:13 PM George Helton <gdhelton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Larry, I can=99t remember your password. Can=99t see your lan
ding without it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:53 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> https://vimeo.com/289329542
>
> Here is a quick and dirty landing which is not at all the best that one
> can do, but it will give you some idea.
> Larry
>
> --
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
> others.*
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
I havve been flying out of this grass strip since 1983. Google Earth says it is
850' long. Elevation is 1500' msl. The first video is a 1985 Firestar modified
into a Firefly; weight 260 pounds, engine is a 26hp Rotax 277. Takeoff used
about 350' because I always ease the power in, as it is easy to get it over on
it's nose. (Guess how I know this?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?vcfoOJJDpg
Landing the Firefly/Firestar in calm wind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIJ_WHLMfY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUHziWQw3Qo
Takeoff with a passenger in the MKIII; calm wind, used about 350' of runway. Fast
forward to 23 minutes to see the landing. Engine is a 65hp 582.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Rr8BF7EPY
Here is the MKIII solo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9eLElrMaTQ&t=9s
As you can see, I typically use about half the available runway length because
my priority is being gentle to the landing gear. Takeoff is always on the slight
downhill, landing is always on the slight uphill. You will notice that TVA
has put a set of 300' tall towers/powerlines 500' off the SW end of the runway.
Carrying a passenger in the summer, takeoff means turning to parallel them.
In the winter I usually just climb and clear them unless it is a BIG passenger.
Landing; the powerlines are not a problem summer or winter.
Hope this gives you an idea of what is typical runway distance used by a Kolb.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal (Repairing the fiberglass nose bowl. Ugh.)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483123#483123
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
Yes. That's what I'm talking about. Great vids. Good looking airplane making good
looking landings that definitely fit my needs.
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483124#483124
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Defend Your Turf |
Nice video Richard!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
> I havve been flying out of this grass strip since 1983. Google Earth says it
is 850' long. Elevation is 1500' msl. The first video is a 1985 Firestar modified
into a Firefly; weight 260 pounds, engine is a 26hp Rotax 277. Takeoff used
about 350' because I always ease the power in, as it is easy to get it over
on it's nose. (Guess how I know this?)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?vcfoOJJDpg
>
> Landing the Firefly/Firestar in calm wind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIJ_WHLMfY
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUHziWQw3Qo
>
> Takeoff with a passenger in the MKIII; calm wind, used about 350' of runway.
Fast forward to 23 minutes to see the landing. Engine is a 65hp 582.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Rr8BF7EPY
>
> Here is the MKIII solo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9eLElrMaTQ&t=9s
>
> As you can see, I typically use about half the available runway length because
my priority is being gentle to the landing gear. Takeoff is always on the slight
downhill, landing is always on the slight uphill. You will notice that TVA
has put a set of 300' tall towers/powerlines 500' off the SW end of the runway.
Carrying a passenger in the summer, takeoff means turning to parallel them.
In the winter I usually just climb and clear them unless it is a BIG passenger.
Landing; the powerlines are not a problem summer or winter.
>
> Hope this gives you an idea of what is typical runway distance used by a Kolb.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal (Repairing the fiberglass nose bowl. Ugh.)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483123#483123
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Defend Your Turf |
I started out with 600 feet of cow pasture, rough as a cob, with poor
approach and departure, Ultrastar and Firestar without brakes. Never had a
problem with air strip length. Eventually, got 750 feet. Fly a very heavy
MKIII. Use a couple hundred feet to land and take off. It will land and
take off much shorter. 30 mph, pop the flaps, and it is flying. Can land
in several plane lengths, depending on the wind.
No such thing as "Kolb quit." It is a stall above the ground. Most
everything I have flown stalls when it gets below stall speed. To many new
and old Kolb pilots, this comes as quite a surprise.
"But still, even the "Kolb short field landing" (and t/o for that matter)
demonstrations are not even remotely respectable."
Please expand on the above. Who were you watching make these landings?
Heck, it's hard to make a long take off and landing in a Kolb.
Here is an old video from the 2011 Nauga Fly In, Star Hill, Louisiana. No
one was trying to break any short field records. Most of the landings and
take offs look pretty decent to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmf0Me3MpH8
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kolburner
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 9:56 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Defend Your Turf
Hi Kolb folks,
I may buy a Kolb. I like a whole lot of things about them. Too many to list
here right now. But....I operate out of a 1,000 foot long dirt strip at an
elevation of 3,800 feet, no obstacles. Now, even 1,000 feet shouldn't be too
short for an airplane that only weighs 400 pounds and stalls at 27 mph. And
yet, pretty much everyone, and I mean everyone I see in videos, lands these
airplanes with at least an '80% above stall speed' cushion, watching
hundreds of feet of runway disappear behind them. I've read about the 'Kolb
quit', which seems to me to be a "whoops, I stalled" kinda thing, and of
course we don't want that too high above the ground. But still, even the
"Kolb short field landing" (and t/o for that matter) demonstrations are not
even remotely respectable. Can't a Kolb with a competent pilot be put down
in a real short distance? Sure they can. But I'm not seeing it. Please
straighten me out here. Thx
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483087#483087
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