---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/15/20: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:37 PM - Water and alcohol (william sullivan) 2. 02:02 PM - Re: Water and alcohol (Charlie England) 3. 05:36 PM - Re: Water and alcohol (william sullivan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:18 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Water and alcohol I am having a memory lapse. Mogas has alcohol, and there is a term for what happens when the alcohol absorbs too much water and forms a goo, or slurry, that clogs fuel systems. Can anyone remember what that goo is called? I do remember the way to remove the alcohol- adding water and overloading the alcohol, and draining it from the bottom. Not to be done in the aircraft!!! Richard Pike? Can you give us a refresher on this? Bill Sullivan Tarboro, NC ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Water and alcohol From: Charlie England On 2/15/2020 2:34 PM, william sullivan wrote: > > I am having a memory lapse. Mogas has alcohol, and there is a term for what happens when the alcohol absorbs too much water and forms a goo, or slurry, that clogs fuel systems. Can anyone remember what that goo is called? I do remember the way to remove the alcohol- adding water and overloading the alcohol, and draining it from the bottom. Not to be done in the aircraft!!! > Richard Pike? Can you give us a refresher on this? > > Bill Sullivan > Tarboro, NC > I don't think that's a 'thing', except in old hangar tales. Maybe this? https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid/71472/Brown-Sludge-MTBE-and-Ethanol-Don-t-Mix I think MTBE in gas has been outlawed for a long time. Ethanol & water can cause corrosion issues (which water can obviously do by itself), and the combo can attack incompatible 'soft parts' in a fuel system, but with proper materials selection, none of that should be an issue. Consider our cars. We've had no (practical) choice but to run E-gas for several decades, and we never have these issues in cars. Methanol ('wood alcohol') is another whole animal. Perhaps that's what you're thinking about. You can pull the ethanol out of gas using a bunch of water, but you're left with very low (and unknown) octane fuel. I can get E-free premium locally, and have run it in my Lycoming engines for a couple of decades. I test every batch for ethanol using an olive jar (tall & skinny). The method is to put about an inch of water in the jar, and carefully mark the jar at the water line. Fill with the gas you're testing, cap, and shake vigorously. Let it sit for a few minutes, and check that the 'water' level hasn't increased. If it's at the same level, there's no ethanol. If the level rises, (some of) the ethanol has bound to the water and it will appear that there's now more water in the jar. Note that the only reason I use E-free is because the old RV-4 I flew had an old mechanical fuel pump with soft parts that were susceptible to E-damage. There are quite a few guys flying fuel injected Lycs on E-10 & E-15 premium now. (No E-susceptible parts in an injected engine with a late model mechanical pump; the pump maker switched to E-proof soft parts a number of years ago. Biggest danger is phase separation at low temps. http://www.lcbamarketing.com/phase_separation_in_ethanol_blen.htm Of course, I could be wrong... Charlie ;-) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:11 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Water and alcohol Phase separation! That's what I couldn't remember. Thanks. It was a conver sation regarding seasonal power equipment. do not archive. Bill Sullivan On Saturday, February 15, 2020, 05:03:27 PM EST, Charlie England wrote: On 2/15/2020 2:34 PM, william sullivan wrote: et> > >=C2- =C2- I am having a memory lapse.=C2- Mogas has alcohol, and the re is a term for what happens when the alcohol absorbs too much water and f orms a goo, or slurry, that clogs fuel systems.=C2- Can anyone remember w hat that goo is called?=C2- I do remember the way to remove the alcohol- adding water and overloading the alcohol, and draining it from the bottom. =C2- Not to be done in the aircraft!!! >=C2- =C2- Richard Pike?=C2- Can you give us a refresher on this? > >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Bill Sullivan >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Tarboro, NC > I don't think that's a 'thing', except in old hangar tales. Maybe this? https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid/71472/Brown-Sludge-MTBE-and-Ethano l-Don-t-Mix I think MTBE in gas has been outlawed for a long time. Ethanol & water can cause corrosion issues (which water can obviously do by itself), and the combo can attack incompatible 'soft parts' in a fuel system, but with proper materials selection, none of that should be an issue. Consider our cars. We've had no (practical) choice but to run E-gas for several decades, and we never have these issues in cars. Methanol ('wood alcohol') is another whole animal. Perhaps that's what you're thinking about. You can pull the ethanol out of gas using a bunch of water, but you're left with very low (and unknown) octane fuel. I can get E-free premium locally, and have run it in my Lycoming engines for a couple of decades. I test every batch for ethanol using an olive jar (tall & skinny). The method is to put about an inch of water in the jar, and carefully mark the jar at the water line. Fill with the gas you're testing, cap, and shake vigorously. Let it sit for a few minutes, and check that the 'water' level hasn't increased. If it's at the same level, there's no ethanol. If the level rises, (some of) the ethanol has bound to the water and it will appear that there's now more water in the jar. Note that the only reason I use E-free is because the old RV-4 I flew had an old mechanical fuel pump with soft parts that were susceptible to E-damage. There are quite a few guys flying fuel injected Lycs on E-10 & E-15 premium now. (No E-susceptible parts in an injected engine with a late model mechanical pump; the pump maker switched to E-proof soft parts a number of years ago. Biggest danger is phase separation at low temps. http://www.lcbamarketing.com/phase_separation_in_ethanol_blen.htm Of course, I could be wrong... Charlie ;-) =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.