---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/14/21: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:24 AM - Original Firestar (Edward Bonsell) 2. 09:02 AM - Re: Original Firestar (william sullivan) 3. 10:05 AM - Re: Original Firestar (Pfatchantz) 4. 11:33 AM - Re: Original Firestar (Quintin Hergt) 5. 02:48 PM - Re: Original Firestar () 6. 04:27 PM - Re: Original Firestar (Charlie England) 7. 05:23 PM - Re: Original Firestar (roger trombley) 8. 06:48 PM - Re: Original Firestar (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:01 AM PST US From: Edward Bonsell Subject: Kolb-List: Original Firestar Hi All, I built my original Firestar in 1986 and 87. I flew it until the year 2000 when it was damaged in a fire. Not too bad, but at the time I was too busy to repair it and lately I just haven't had the gumption. I'm thinking about getting around to doing something. Has anyone been playing around with the new covering material that is easier to apply and 20% lighter? Thanks, Ed ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:41 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Original Firestar I think Richard Pike was doing something, and I recall somebody painting w ith latex house paint diluted with antifreeze. Maybe check Richard's site, for a start. Bill Sullivan Tarboro, NC On Thursday, January 14, 2021, 09:24:08 AM EST, Edward Bonsell wrote: Hi All, I built my original Firestar in 1986 and 87. I flew it until the year 2000 when it was damaged in a fire. Not too bad, but at the time I was too busy to repair it and lately I just haven't had the gumption. I'm thinking about getting around to doing something. Has anyone been playing around with the new covering material=C2-that is easier to apply and 20% lighter? Thanks, Ed ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:38 AM PST US From: Pfatchantz Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Original Firestar SWYgcmVzYWxlIGlzIGEgcG9zc2liaWxpdHkuLi5hbmQgZ2V0dGluZyBhIGZhaXIgcHJpY2UuLi50 aGVuIFBvbHkgZmliZXIgbWlnaHQgYmUgdGhlIHdheSB0byBnby4uLlJlcGFpciBjYW4gYmUgZGlm ZmljdWx0IHdoZW4gdXNpbmcgdGhlIHBvbHkgdXJldGhhbmUgdmFyaWV0aWVzLi5IZXJiCgpTZW50 IHdpdGggW1Byb3Rvbk1haWxdKGh0dHBzOi8vcHJvdG9ubWFpbC5jb20pIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbC4K CuKAkOKAkOKAkOKAkOKAkOKAkOKAkCBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIOKAkOKAkOKAkOKAkOKAkOKA kOKAkApPbiBUaHVyc2RheSwgSmFudWFyeSAxNCwgMjAyMSAxMTowMiBBTSwgd2lsbGlhbSBzdWxs aXZhbiA8d2lsbGlhbXRzdWxsaXZhbkBhdHQubmV0PiB3cm90ZToKCj4gSSB0aGluayBSaWNoYXJk IFBpa2Ugd2FzIGRvaW5nIHNvbWV0aGluZywgYW5kIEkgcmVjYWxsIHNvbWVib2R5IHBhaW50aW5n IHdpdGggbGF0ZXggaG91c2UgcGFpbnQgZGlsdXRlZCB3aXRoIGFudGlmcmVlemUuIE1heWJlIGNo ZWNrIFJpY2hhcmQncyBzaXRlLCBmb3IgYSBzdGFydC4KPgo+IEJpbGwgU3VsbGl2YW4KPiBUYXJi b3JvLCBOQwo+Cj4gT24gVGh1cnNkYXksIEphbnVhcnkgMTQsIDIwMjEsIDA5OjI0OjA4IEFNIEVT VCwgRWR3YXJkIEJvbnNlbGwgPHNtZWRsZXk5NDVAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPgo+IEhpIEFs bCwKPgo+IEkgYnVpbHQgbXkgb3JpZ2luYWwgRmlyZXN0YXIgaW4gMTk4NiBhbmQgODcuIEkgZmxl dyBpdCB1bnRpbCB0aGUgeWVhciAyMDAwIHdoZW4gaXQgd2FzIGRhbWFnZWQgaW4gYSBmaXJlLiBO b3QgdG9vIGJhZCwgYnV0IGF0IHRoZSB0aW1lIEkgd2FzIHRvbyBidXN5IHRvIHJlcGFpciBpdCBh bmQgbGF0ZWx5IEkganVzdCBoYXZlbid0IGhhZCB0aGUgZ3VtcHRpb24uIEknbSB0aGlua2luZyBh Ym91dCBnZXR0aW5nIGFyb3VuZCB0byBkb2luZyBzb21ldGhpbmcuIEhhcyBhbnlvbmUgYmVlbiBw bGF5aW5nIGFyb3VuZCB3aXRoIHRoZSBuZXcgY292ZXJpbmcgbWF0ZXJpYWwgdGhhdCBpcyBlYXNp ZXIgdG8gYXBwbHkgYW5kIDIwJSBsaWdodGVyPwo+Cj4gVGhhbmtzLAo+Cj4gRWQ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:59 AM PST US From: Quintin Hergt Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Original Firestar A friend of mine did a bunch of research on this. http://www.bowersflyba by.com/tech/latex.html ________________________________ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of william sullivan Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:02:25 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Original Firestar I think Richard Pike was doing something, and I recall somebody painting wi th latex house paint diluted with antifreeze. Maybe check Richard's site, f or a start. Bill Sullivan Tarboro, NC On Thursday, January 14, 2021, 09:24:08 AM EST, Edward Bonsell wrote: Hi All, I built my original Firestar in 1986 and 87. I flew it until the year 2000 when it was damaged in a fire. Not too bad, but at the time I was too busy to repair it and lately I just haven't had the gumption. I'm thinking about getting around to doing something. Has anyone been playing around with the new covering material that is easier to apply and 20% lighter? Thanks, Ed ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:39 PM PST US From: <1957grnchev@bluemarble.net> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Original Firestar I just read the full article "Painting a Fly Baby w Latex house paint".. and there were two things that caught my attention, or concern. Armor-All has silicone and a few other chemicals that are super problematic when it comes to spray painting, and a major cause of orange peel. I cannot imagine putting that on aircraft fabric, and worse, if it needs to be repaired later. He also mentioned washing rags, and I'd assume drying them in the normal laundry equipment. Dryer sheets and fabric softeners are known to also have silicones.. and to leave their residue in the the washer and dryer. I would be super hesitant to use either one of those products anywhere near a important paint job. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Original Firestar From: Charlie England On 1/14/2021 4:50 PM, 1957grnchev@bluemarble.net wrote: > > I just read the full article "Painting a Fly Baby w Latex house paint".. > and there were two things that caught my attention, or concern. > > Armor-All has silicone and a few other chemicals that are super > problematic when it comes to spray painting, and a major cause of orange > peel. I cannot imagine putting that on aircraft fabric, and worse, if it > needs to be repaired later. > > He also mentioned washing rags, and I'd assume drying them in the normal > laundry equipment. Dryer sheets and fabric softeners are known to also > have silicones.. and to leave their residue in the the washer and dryer. I > would be super hesitant to use either one of those products anywhere near a > important paint job. There are easier ways to 'go latex'. Try reading through http://wienerdogaero.com/Latex.php I followed his processes on a Twinstar (but with minimal sanding and zero final polishing), and it came out looking every bit as good as fabric finished with 'traditional' finishes. He presents in the forums at OSH each year. Charlie -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:51 PM PST US From: roger trombley Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Original Firestar Interesting. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad On Thursday, January 14, 2021, 12:06 PM, william sullivan wrote: I think Richard Pike was doing something, and I recall somebody painting w ith latex house paint diluted with antifreeze. Maybe check Richard's site, for a start. Bill Sullivan Tarboro, NC On Thursday, January 14, 2021, 09:24:08 AM EST, Edward Bonsell wrote: Hi All, I built my original Firestar in 1986 and 87. I flew it until the year 2000 when it was damaged in a fire. Not too bad, but at the time I was too busy to repair it and lately I just haven't had the gumption. I'm thinking about getting around to doing something. Has anyone been playing around with the new covering material=C2-that is easier to apply and 20% lighter? Thanks, Ed ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:51 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Original Firestar From: "Richard Pike" Latex painting airplanes: one easy, one a pain in the butt, and a War Story. First time I did it was back in the late 80's, I had a Maxair Hummer that the sails were about to go bad, modified the wing so that it had a lightweight but sort of conventional rib structure and covered it with lightweight (glider) dacron from Aircraft Spruce. Don't know if they still sell that weight or not. Attached it in the usual way with Stits Poly-Tak. Sprayed all the fabric with Sears Weather Beater Black latex paint, thinned with water enough to spray well and penetrate to both sides of the fabric, as that it how you make it stick, it has to be thin enough to be on both sides of the Dacron. Used a regular Sears quart pressure pot sprayer that I had used over the years to paint cars with lacquer, etc, don't remember how much PSI, whatever it took to make it spray right. The parts I wanted to be yellow, I went back over & sprayed white, and then again with the yellow. It went pretty well, the weight was about 8 pounds heavier than with the original slip on sails and tube ribs, and it was dirt cheap. I think I had $300 in it, it looked good and worked fine. One thing you have to careful of; the Hummer's wings folded together, you had to be careful not to hang them up touching, or the latex on one wing would bond to the latex on the other and it would pull off. The second airplane was Ed's FSII, & for whatever reason the latex we were using (don't remember the brand) did not want to cooperate with the Stits fabric. Thinning with water wasn't doing quite right, tried using windshield washer fluid - so/so, nothing worked really great. Maybe the paint brand? We got some ex-tend (I think it was called) from the dealer as the preferred thinner/ drying time extender, and eventually we got it looking really great, but for whatever reason, it was a terrible hassle. One thing I remember was that we sprayed it with a HVLP sprayer, don't know if that helped or hurt. Now on a totally different and unrelated topic ~ AKA War Story Eventually I sold the Hummer , it got sold again, and again, and then ended up belonging to a guy on the coast of NC. When I sold it, it was registered and had an Airworthiness Certificate, but it probably could have been made to make Part 103, seems like it weighed about 162 pounds if I remember right. It still had all the original U/L structure in it. The guy on the coast modified it; took off the 277 & replaced it with a 503, and added a second seat. The wings & tail were unmodified, that was how I first recognized it in the video. I about had a cow. The fool had created a death trap, and was flying his family and friends around in it. Original gross weight was under 600 pounds, and VNE was 65 mph. The wings had 1 3/4" leading edge tubes, 1 1/2" trailing edge tubes, no internal drag/anti drag bracing, just flying/landing wires attached at the wing compression struts, two per side. No way there was proper structure to support what he was doing with it, and I knew he had not modified it or beefed it up, because the paint job was unmolested. I found it one night on Youtube, he had a bunch of videos, one of which showed him taking off with a large passenger, the camera was pointing at the passenger from over the pilots shoulder, and during the climbout, the fabric in the first rib bay split fore and aft. Front spar to rear spar. The passenger looked like "Is it supposed to do this?" The flight continued on for several minutes. The next day I called Southern Region FSDO and told the man what I had seen, and suggested that they might want to look into it. Never heard back from him, but about a week later, all the videos of my old airplane were off YouTube... I'm all for minding my own business, but when some idiot modifies an airplane that I built in such a way that it is guaranteed to kill some innocent passenger, and give "ultralights/homebuilts" a black eye; naw - that don't work for me. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500241#500241 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fallhummer_117.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/n582ef1st_211.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.