Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/05/23 (Steve Gates)
2. 12:18 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/05/23 (Steve Gates)
3. 04:41 AM - Re: primer bulb and pulse line (ridefst)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: primer bulb and pulse line (Stuart Harner)
5. 08:22 AM - Re: primer bulb and pulse line (Jay Dub)
6. 08:43 AM - Re: primer bulb and pulse line (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/05/23 |
Hi Jay,
I'm using a 503 on my Firestar II with 1/4" ID hose and it seems just fine
over about 17 hrs flight time so far.
I got rid of the bulb because I was concerned about the very problem you
mentioned, and put in an automotive electric pulse pump, which I mostly only
use to prime/start the engine because the Rotax pulse pump is adequate for
normal flight in my experience so far - also makes a much tidier
installation not having the bulb accessible to prime.
Good luck with it,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kolb-List Digest
Server
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2023 2:30 PM
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/05/23
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
23-04-05&Archive=Kolb
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2023-04-05&Archive=Kolb
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 04/05/23: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 PM - fuel line suggestions (Jay Dub)
2. 04:24 PM - primer bulb and pulse line (Jay Dub)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 04:17:54 PM PST US
From: Jay Dub <bearhawk@gmx.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: fuel line suggestions
I'm almost ready to mount the 447 onto my Firestar as I'm nearing the end of
painting
the fabric. I looked in the yellow book and on the drawings, and the info
may have been there, but I couldn't find what fuel line size I need. It
appears
by looking at the Bing carb and Mikuni fuel pump that it might be 1/4" dia
but that's a guess.
What material and size does the group recommend for fuel line for a 447?
Rotax
Rick does recommend ethanol gas to keep water suspended so the material
should
be able to handle that I guess.
Thanks,
Jay Dub
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:24:01 PM PST US
From: Jay Dub <bearhawk@gmx.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: primer bulb and pulse line
In addition to the fuel line question I just posed, what primer bulb has
held up
well? The one I had in my CGS Hawk years ago got a crack and the fuel line
was
sucking in air so the engine quit in flight. I was able to squeeze the bulb
to get fuel to the engine to restart and I kept squeezing until I got back
to
the airstrip with fuel running down my arm. Is there a quality one
recommended?
Also, what pulse line size/material is recommended these days for the single
carb
mikuni pulse pump?
Thanks again,
Jay
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/05/23 |
Hi Jay,
I'm using a 503 on my Firestar II with 1/4" ID hose and it seems just fine
over about 17 hrs flight time so far.
I got rid of the bulb because I was concerned about the very problem you
mentioned, and put in an automotive electric pulse pump, which I mostly only
use to prime/start the engine because the Rotax pulse pump is adequate for
normal flight in my experience so far - also makes a much tidier
installation not having the bulb accessible to prime.
Good luck with it,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kolb-List Digest
Server
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2023 2:30 PM
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/05/23
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
23-04-05&Archive=Kolb
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2023-04-05&Archive=Kolb
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 04/05/23: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 PM - fuel line suggestions (Jay Dub)
2. 04:24 PM - primer bulb and pulse line (Jay Dub)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 04:17:54 PM PST US
From: Jay Dub <bearhawk@gmx.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: fuel line suggestions
I'm almost ready to mount the 447 onto my Firestar as I'm nearing the end of
painting
the fabric. I looked in the yellow book and on the drawings, and the info
may have been there, but I couldn't find what fuel line size I need. It
appears
by looking at the Bing carb and Mikuni fuel pump that it might be 1/4" dia
but that's a guess.
What material and size does the group recommend for fuel line for a 447?
Rotax
Rick does recommend ethanol gas to keep water suspended so the material
should
be able to handle that I guess.
Thanks,
Jay Dub
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:24:01 PM PST US
From: Jay Dub <bearhawk@gmx.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: primer bulb and pulse line
In addition to the fuel line question I just posed, what primer bulb has
held up
well? The one I had in my CGS Hawk years ago got a crack and the fuel line
was
sucking in air so the engine quit in flight. I was able to squeeze the bulb
to get fuel to the engine to restart and I kept squeezing until I got back
to
the airstrip with fuel running down my arm. Is there a quality one
recommended?
Also, what pulse line size/material is recommended these days for the single
carb
mikuni pulse pump?
Thanks again,
Jay
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: primer bulb and pulse line |
I've heard various stories about those primer bulbs deteriorating internally, and
sometimes blocking fuel flow completely. I'd avoid them.
If you have an electrical system an electric pulse pump like Steve mentioned is
great, or else a push/pull hand primer pump.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510595#510595
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: primer bulb and pulse line |
My kit came with the bulb and some tee-'s.
The bulb goes in the main fuel line and you put a tee in before and one
after the bulb. Then run a short piece of hose between the tee's.
In this configuration you have to pinch the bypass line when using the
primer.
The idea was that if the check valve failed and blocked flow through the
bulb the engine could still pull through fuel through the loop.
I was told that there was at least one occurrence of an engine out
caused by an internal failure of the bulb. Maybe more.
There wasn't any discussion of the bulb failing on the outside, but
considering they look like off the shelf primers for boats it wouldn't
surprise me.
The push/pull primers would certainly work but would require using tee's
and pinching the main line while priming as they shut off the flow when
closed and locked. I don't think you could rely on passing fuel through
them for regular flight.
Here is a picture of how it is set up. The original hose was just plain
clear plastic but it was getting hard after a few months so I went to
the snowmobile shop and got some urethane hose which is not clear but
you can still see the fuel inside. It will last a year of two before
needing replacement.
Another option is just plain automotive black rubber fuel hose. Lasts a
lot longer but you can't see the fuel through it.
Stuart
On 4/5/23 18:23, Jay Dub wrote:
>
> In addition to the fuel line question I just posed, what primer bulb has held
up well? The one I had in my CGS Hawk years ago got a crack and the fuel line
was sucking in air so the engine quit in flight. I was able to squeeze the bulb
to get fuel to the engine to restart and I kept squeezing until I got back
to the airstrip with fuel running down my arm. Is there a quality one recommended?
>
> Also, what pulse line size/material is recommended these days for the single
carb mikuni pulse pump?
>
> Thanks again,
> Jay
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: primer bulb and pulse line |
Hi Again all,
I appreciate the replies. The reason I want the bulb is in case the pulse pump
goes kaput in flight. Having it reachable in my CGS Hawk could have been a lifesaver
as I was over a large mature woods (couldn't have landed anywhere but in
>100' tall trees) but since I could pump it by hand I was able to do a restart
and safely fly back to our airstrip. I'm building my plane very light and I
won't have electric so an electric pump is not an option. Yes, I learned the
hard way about the bulb cracking then I learned later that the fuel lines and
bulb should be replaced annually. While I can be frugal, fuel lines, filter, and
bulb are cheap insurance. I hadn't heard of primer bulbs getting blocked so
Stuart's solution with a bypass makes sense. The bulb that came with my CGS Hawk
kit in 91 wasn't a good quality bulb hence my asking if anyone knows of a
good quality one. The bulb that came with the Kolb kit I purchased is for a blood
pressure cuff and I don't see how I could even make that work (only has an
outlet and no inlet barb) plus it's extremely low quality. That may have come
from the previous owner, not Kolb. For engine starting I'm not a fan of the
push-pull primers and I will be using the Bing enriching circuit instead but to
each their own on that.
I did look through my kit materials last night after sending the email and I found
I do have a bunch of "Superthane Ester 1/4" ID x 3/8" OD" tubing that must
have come from Kolb. I'll probably use that to begin with as it's never had fuel
in it, it's quite supple, and it's not been outside to get UV. Since it's
so supple I think I should use a stiffer tubing for the pulse line.
Jay
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: primer bulb and pulse line |
On 4/6/2023 10:22 AM, Jay Dub wrote:
>
> Hi Again all,
> I appreciate the replies. The reason I want the bulb is in case the pulse pump
goes kaput in flight. Having it reachable in my CGS Hawk could have been a lifesaver
as I was over a large mature woods (couldn't have landed anywhere but
in >100' tall trees) but since I could pump it by hand I was able to do a restart
and safely fly back to our airstrip. I'm building my plane very light and
I won't have electric so an electric pump is not an option. Yes, I learned the
hard way about the bulb cracking then I learned later that the fuel lines and
bulb should be replaced annually. While I can be frugal, fuel lines, filter,
and bulb are cheap insurance. I hadn't heard of primer bulbs getting blocked
so Stuart's solution with a bypass makes sense. The bulb that came with my CGS
Hawk kit in 91 wasn't a good quality bulb hence my asking if anyone knows of
a good quality one. The bulb that came with the Kolb kit I purchased is for a
blood pressure cuff and I don't see how I could even m!
> ake that work (only has an outlet and no inlet barb) plus it's extremely low
quality. That may have come from the previous owner, not Kolb. For engine starting
I'm not a fan of the push-pull primers and I will be using the Bing enriching
circuit instead but to each their own on that.
>
> I did look through my kit materials last night after sending the email and I
found I do have a bunch of "Superthane Ester 1/4" ID x 3/8" OD" tubing that must
have come from Kolb. I'll probably use that to begin with as it's never had
fuel in it, it's quite supple, and it's not been outside to get UV. Since it's
so supple I think I should use a stiffer tubing for the pulse line.
>
> Jay
I have very limited experience with Rotax 2strokes, but I did have a
little. I used the blue-green urethane tubing initially when I restored
an old Kolb Twinstar with a 503. I made a 'flop tube' with filtered,
weighted pickup to go in the tank, using the urethane tubing. Within a
year, the tubing rotted in two at the fitting inside the top of the
tank. I replaced the flop tube pickup with a bottom-feed on the tank (I
discovered that hoses that have fuel proof coverings are shockingly
expensive). I replaced all the blue line with quality black automotive
fuel line.
I bought a ~$10 squeeze bulb during restoration, and it, too, rotted
within a year. Coming from the bigger/heavier experimental world, that
unnerved me as unacceptable performance for such critical items. After
researching the cost of quality squeeze bulbs, I elected to install a
clone of the Facet cube pump, and a little 4AH AGM battery. I had a bulb
primer on an outboard back in the early 1990s that was probably 20 years
old and still worked fine, but when I priced the 'brand name' primers
from Evinrude, Johnson, etc, they were more expensive than the
conversion to electric primer.
One upside to electric is that you flip a switch and go back to flying,
instead of focusing on squeezing the bulb in flight.
FWIW,
Charlie
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