Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:40 AM - Re: alternative fuel (Ernest Martinez)
2. 07:42 AM - Re: re-alternative fuel (Ernest Martinez)
3. 09:00 AM - Re: re-alternative fuel ()
4. 09:44 AM - Re: re-alternative fuel (Brian Colombo)
5. 09:56 AM - Re: re-alternative fuel (ROBERT SCHWARTZ)
6. 05:03 PM - Re: alternative fuel (Roma L. Skinner)
7. 05:12 PM - Emailing: showflat.php-Cat=&Number=868545&page=63&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 (Roma L. Skinner)
8. 05:17 PM - (owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com)
9. 05:19 PM - Emailing: L2_1_fs (Roma L. Skinner)
10. 05:20 PM - Emailing: L2_5_fs (Roma L. Skinner)
11. 06:32 PM - Re: alternative fuel (Ernest Martinez)
12. 07:09 PM - Re: alternative fuel (Roma L. Skinner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: alternative fuel |
--> L29-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
#1 Diesl, K1 Kerosene, Jet-A, JP8. are all basically the same with
respect to flash point, lubricicity, sulfur content. K1 better than
Jet-A on the lubricicity front.
Ernie
On 11/19/05, Roma L. Skinner <roma@airmail.net> wrote:
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
>
> the chevron #1 diesel is the same as jet-a here in texas, the fuel pump on
> the M-701 needs lubrication via the fuel, check the lubricity of your fuel
> before using
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Colyergreg@aol.com>
> To: <l29-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: L29-List: alternative fuel
>
>
> > --> L29-List message posted by: Colyergreg@aol.com
> >
> > Ernest,
> > I don't know why you would want to run 100LL, it would burn but that's
> > more than Jet A costs at almost every airport. Temps would be higher and
> > it
> > won't run as well either. Kerosene works fantastic. I burn both clear
> > and red
> > most of the time (it's cheaper than Jet A) and it's the same as Jet A
> > minus
> > the additives that they add to fuel. Diesel works too but is a very
> > dirty
> > fuel that will clog up your fuel filter very quickly. I hope this
> > helps...
> >
> >
> > Greg
> > PS _www.aerol29.com_ (http://www.aerol29.com) is a new site that will be
> > completely up and running by years end with a forum as well.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: re-alternative fuel |
--> L29-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
K1 kerosene or #1 Home heating oil are basically the same thing.
People used to mix Avgas and Jet-A to simulate JP-4, absolutley no
reason to do that with the Walter.
Ernie
On 11/19/05, Brian Colombo <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Brian Colombo" <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com>
>
> I was not planning on running, 100LL but I do know the casa/fouga guys sometimes
cut the jet A with some to help them light off faster. what about home heating
oil? anyone running that. I will call Doug Monday for the parts, I did not
need new stuff so I figured I would check with you guys first that might have
some old used stuff sitting around. Who has built a good tail dolly, and would
you share the design?
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: re-alternative fuel |
--> L29-List message posted by: <bud@psidisk.com>
In the beginning of time, all airports had avgas, only a few had jet fuel. That
is why early jet engines were rated to run on avgas as well as jet fuel. Even
today you can arrive somewhere and the Jet truck is down or their jet fuel load
hasn't arrived yet.
Your fuel controller in the L29 does a pretty good job of letting you monkey the
throttle around. You dont have the same type of compensator in a Fouga, you
advance and retard manually. In the Fouga you are always cautioned about making
throttles adjustments, ESPECIALLY if you are running avgas. (Its in the POH
somewhere but not emphasized enough).
I know of a guy that put enough 100ll in his Fouga to get to the next airport and
when he pulled the throttle back in the pattern he suffered compressor stalls
and a dual flameout (Read Yeagers book about similar experience in a T33).
Most Fouga batteries are old ni-cads and will barely self start. If you use Oddessy
batteries in your L29 you shouldn't need to worry about starting.
Ive never seen or heard of experimenting with the fuel improve performance. I have
seen it drastically decrease performance.
>
> From: "Brian Colombo" <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com>
> Date: 2005/11/19 Sat PM 10:21:43 EST
> To: <L29-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: L29-List: re-alternative fuel
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: re-alternative fuel |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Brian Colombo" <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com>
bud, thanks for the info. I was not looking for a performance increase jut
wondering what my options are. We flew 2 casa jets and my 29 this weekend
and the jet a truck was not working. After messing with it a while we got it
to work but it got me thinking. I also wanted to know about alternatives
because jet a is so expensive right now and it cost 500-600 dollars to do a
nice little flight @ 4.00/gallon. kerosene is 1/2 that around me.
thanks for the info.
----- Original Message -----
From: <bud@psidisk.com>
Subject: Re: L29-List: re-alternative fuel
> --> L29-List message posted by: <bud@psidisk.com>
>
> In the beginning of time, all airports had avgas, only a few had jet fuel.
> That is why early jet engines were rated to run on avgas as well as jet
> fuel. Even today you can arrive somewhere and the Jet truck is down or
> their jet fuel load hasn't arrived yet.
>
> Your fuel controller in the L29 does a pretty good job of letting you
> monkey the throttle around. You dont have the same type of compensator in
> a Fouga, you advance and retard manually. In the Fouga you are always
> cautioned about making throttles adjustments, ESPECIALLY if you are
> running avgas. (Its in the POH somewhere but not emphasized enough).
>
> I know of a guy that put enough 100ll in his Fouga to get to the next
> airport and when he pulled the throttle back in the pattern he suffered
> compressor stalls and a dual flameout (Read Yeagers book about similar
> experience in a T33).
>
> Most Fouga batteries are old ni-cads and will barely self start. If you
> use Oddessy batteries in your L29 you shouldn't need to worry about
> starting.
>
> Ive never seen or heard of experimenting with the fuel improve
> performance. I have seen it drastically decrease performance.
>
>
>>
>> From: "Brian Colombo" <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com>
>> Date: 2005/11/19 Sat PM 10:21:43 EST
>> To: <L29-List@matronics.com>
>> Subject: L29-List: re-alternative fuel
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: re-alternative fuel |
--> L29-List message posted by: "ROBERT SCHWARTZ" <schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net>
Hello everyone. If you are going to run your L-29 on ANYTHING but jet A I
strongly suggest that you build a good filter system to take debris and
water out prior to entering the aircraft fuel tank., There can be lots of
moisture in the alternative fuels discussed and auto/truck fuel is not as
closely filtered as aviation. Although diesel is watched. Also, the fuel
filter in the aircraft should be checked more frequently if running
substitutes.
If you are not adding the PRIST yourself to these substitutes, those flying
in sub freezing locations should be cautious. happy flying
Bob. Schwartz
Delfin 2819
Email: schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net
This information is intended for the use of individual named above. If you
are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the
content of this information is strictly prohibited.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Colombo" <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: L29-List: re-alternative fuel
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Brian Colombo" <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com>
>
> bud, thanks for the info. I was not looking for a performance increase jut
> wondering what my options are. We flew 2 casa jets and my 29 this weekend
> and the jet a truck was not working. After messing with it a while we got
> it
> to work but it got me thinking. I also wanted to know about alternatives
> because jet a is so expensive right now and it cost 500-600 dollars to do
> a
> nice little flight @ 4.00/gallon. kerosene is 1/2 that around me.
> thanks for the info.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bud@psidisk.com>
> To: <l29-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: L29-List: re-alternative fuel
>
>
>> --> L29-List message posted by: <bud@psidisk.com>
>>
>> In the beginning of time, all airports had avgas, only a few had jet
>> fuel.
>> That is why early jet engines were rated to run on avgas as well as jet
>> fuel. Even today you can arrive somewhere and the Jet truck is down or
>> their jet fuel load hasn't arrived yet.
>>
>> Your fuel controller in the L29 does a pretty good job of letting you
>> monkey the throttle around. You dont have the same type of compensator in
>> a Fouga, you advance and retard manually. In the Fouga you are always
>> cautioned about making throttles adjustments, ESPECIALLY if you are
>> running avgas. (Its in the POH somewhere but not emphasized enough).
>>
>> I know of a guy that put enough 100ll in his Fouga to get to the next
>> airport and when he pulled the throttle back in the pattern he suffered
>> compressor stalls and a dual flameout (Read Yeagers book about similar
>> experience in a T33).
>>
>> Most Fouga batteries are old ni-cads and will barely self start. If you
>> use Oddessy batteries in your L29 you shouldn't need to worry about
>> starting.
>>
>> Ive never seen or heard of experimenting with the fuel improve
>> performance. I have seen it drastically decrease performance.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: "Brian Colombo" <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com>
>>> Date: 2005/11/19 Sat PM 10:21:43 EST
>>> To: <L29-List@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: L29-List: re-alternative fuel
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: alternative fuel |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
We have to watch our K-1 here in Texas because the sulfur is removed for
non-vented applications and some mfg do not add enough lubricity for the
type of high pressure pump the 701 uses, the only failures of the 701 I know
of happen in Bulgaria, several high pressure pumped failed because of low
lubricity fuel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: L29-List: alternative fuel
> --> L29-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> #1 Diesl, K1 Kerosene, Jet-A, JP8. are all basically the same with
> respect to flash point, lubricicity, sulfur content. K1 better than
> Jet-A on the lubricicity front.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/19/05, Roma L. Skinner <roma@airmail.net> wrote:
>> --> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
>>
>> the chevron #1 diesel is the same as jet-a here in texas, the fuel pump
>> on
>> the M-701 needs lubrication via the fuel, check the lubricity of your
>> fuel
>> before using
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Colyergreg@aol.com>
>> To: <l29-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: L29-List: alternative fuel
>>
>>
>> > --> L29-List message posted by: Colyergreg@aol.com
>> >
>> > Ernest,
>> > I don't know why you would want to run 100LL, it would burn but
>> > that's
>> > more than Jet A costs at almost every airport. Temps would be higher
>> > and
>> > it
>> > won't run as well either. Kerosene works fantastic. I burn both
>> > clear
>> > and red
>> > most of the time (it's cheaper than Jet A) and it's the same as Jet A
>> > minus
>> > the additives that they add to fuel. Diesel works too but is a very
>> > dirty
>> > fuel that will clog up your fuel filter very quickly. I hope this
>> > helps...
>> >
>> >
>> > Greg
>> > PS _www.aerol29.com_ (http://www.aerol29.com) is a new site that will
>> > be
>> > completely up and running by years end with a forum as well.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Emailing: showflat.php-Cat=&Number=868545&page=63&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Shortcut to: http://www.thedieselstop.com/archives/ubbthreads/73EandD/forums.thedieselstop.com/archives/showflat.php-Cat&Number868545&page63&viewcollapsed&sb5&o&fpart1.htm
Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending
or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings
to determine how attachments are handled.
Message 8
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--> L29-List message posted by:
Message 9
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| Subject: | Emailing: L2_1_fs |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Shortcut to: http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_1_fs.htm
Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending
or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings
to determine how attachments are handled.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Emailing: L2_5_fs |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Shortcut to: http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_5_fs.htm
Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending
or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings
to determine how attachments are handled.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: alternative fuel |
--> L29-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I agree, but I beleive that Jet-A has less viscosity than K1. Diesl
is better, unfortunatley as your graphs show that the range is
broader, too high a viscosity especially in cold climates will reduce
fuel transfer capability possibly causing fuel starvation. Jet-A is
specially formulated for the best mix of lubricicity vs stability,
moisture content. K1 is close but will hold more mositure, is prone
to funghi, but has lower sulfur content which is good for the blades.
The same chevron site has a good explanation of Jet fuel formulations.
Ernie
On 11/20/05, Roma L. Skinner <roma@airmail.net> wrote:
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
>
> We have to watch our K-1 here in Texas because the sulfur is removed for
> non-vented applications and some mfg do not add enough lubricity for the
> type of high pressure pump the 701 uses, the only failures of the 701 I know
> of happen in Bulgaria, several high pressure pumped failed because of low
> lubricity fuel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <l29-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: L29-List: alternative fuel
>
>
> > --> L29-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > #1 Diesl, K1 Kerosene, Jet-A, JP8. are all basically the same with
> > respect to flash point, lubricicity, sulfur content. K1 better than
> > Jet-A on the lubricicity front.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 11/19/05, Roma L. Skinner <roma@airmail.net> wrote:
> >> --> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
> >>
> >> the chevron #1 diesel is the same as jet-a here in texas, the fuel pump
> >> on
> >> the M-701 needs lubrication via the fuel, check the lubricity of your
> >> fuel
> >> before using
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <Colyergreg@aol.com>
> >> To: <l29-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Re: L29-List: alternative fuel
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> L29-List message posted by: Colyergreg@aol.com
> >> >
> >> > Ernest,
> >> > I don't know why you would want to run 100LL, it would burn but
> >> > that's
> >> > more than Jet A costs at almost every airport. Temps would be higher
> >> > and
> >> > it
> >> > won't run as well either. Kerosene works fantastic. I burn both
> >> > clear
> >> > and red
> >> > most of the time (it's cheaper than Jet A) and it's the same as Jet A
> >> > minus
> >> > the additives that they add to fuel. Diesel works too but is a very
> >> > dirty
> >> > fuel that will clog up your fuel filter very quickly. I hope this
> >> > helps...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Greg
> >> > PS _www.aerol29.com_ (http://www.aerol29.com) is a new site that will
> >> > be
> >> > completely up and running by years end with a forum as well.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: alternative fuel |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
yes it is a big problem, fuel is different in every part of the country,
here in Texas we use almost no home heating oil, the K-1 we get is dry,
being I guess used only in portable heaters, we knocked out the injector
pump on one of our Cummings diesel engines, if we use K-1 we add a lubricity
additive, when it arrives we take a hard look at the delivery ticket which
spells out the spec's.
I wish we could get some Jet-a , kerosene spec K-1 here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: L29-List: alternative fuel
> --> L29-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> I agree, but I beleive that Jet-A has less viscosity than K1. Diesl
> is better, unfortunatley as your graphs show that the range is
> broader, too high a viscosity especially in cold climates will reduce
> fuel transfer capability possibly causing fuel starvation. Jet-A is
> specially formulated for the best mix of lubricicity vs stability,
> moisture content. K1 is close but will hold more mositure, is prone
> to funghi, but has lower sulfur content which is good for the blades.
>
> The same chevron site has a good explanation of Jet fuel formulations.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/20/05, Roma L. Skinner <roma@airmail.net> wrote:
>> --> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
>>
>> We have to watch our K-1 here in Texas because the sulfur is removed for
>> non-vented applications and some mfg do not add enough lubricity for the
>> type of high pressure pump the 701 uses, the only failures of the 701 I
>> know
>> of happen in Bulgaria, several high pressure pumped failed because of low
>> lubricity fuel
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> To: <l29-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: L29-List: alternative fuel
>>
>>
>> > --> L29-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > #1 Diesl, K1 Kerosene, Jet-A, JP8. are all basically the same with
>> > respect to flash point, lubricicity, sulfur content. K1 better than
>> > Jet-A on the lubricicity front.
>> >
>> > Ernie
>> >
>> > On 11/19/05, Roma L. Skinner <roma@airmail.net> wrote:
>> >> --> L29-List message posted by: "Roma L. Skinner" <roma@airmail.net>
>> >>
>> >> the chevron #1 diesel is the same as jet-a here in texas, the fuel
>> >> pump
>> >> on
>> >> the M-701 needs lubrication via the fuel, check the lubricity of your
>> >> fuel
>> >> before using
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: <Colyergreg@aol.com>
>> >> To: <l29-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: L29-List: alternative fuel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > --> L29-List message posted by: Colyergreg@aol.com
>> >> >
>> >> > Ernest,
>> >> > I don't know why you would want to run 100LL, it would burn but
>> >> > that's
>> >> > more than Jet A costs at almost every airport. Temps would be
>> >> > higher
>> >> > and
>> >> > it
>> >> > won't run as well either. Kerosene works fantastic. I burn both
>> >> > clear
>> >> > and red
>> >> > most of the time (it's cheaper than Jet A) and it's the same as Jet
>> >> > A
>> >> > minus
>> >> > the additives that they add to fuel. Diesel works too but is a
>> >> > very
>> >> > dirty
>> >> > fuel that will clog up your fuel filter very quickly. I hope this
>> >> > helps...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Greg
>> >> > PS _www.aerol29.com_ (http://www.aerol29.com) is a new site that
>> >> > will
>> >> > be
>> >> > completely up and running by years end with a forum as well.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
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