Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:26 AM - Re: L-29 Air Conditioning (Jean de Roubin)
2. 09:47 AM - air con - real question (Jorgen Nielsen)
3. 09:52 AM - Re: air con - real question (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
4. 10:14 AM - Re: air con - real question (Ernest Martinez)
5. 11:24 AM - MANUAL ON CD? (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
6. 11:44 AM - Re: MANUAL ON CD? (Gary Cole)
7. 02:53 PM - Re: MANUAL ON CD? (Colyergreg@aol.com)
8. 02:56 PM - Re: air con - real question (Jorgen Nielsen)
9. 04:07 PM - Re: air con - real question (AI Nut)
10. 06:00 PM - Re: MANUAL ON CD? (Bill)
11. 11:47 PM - L-29 and other jets at Reno Air Races? (SD737@aol.com)
12. 11:48 PM - More RARA jet info (SD737@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: L-29 Air Conditioning |
--> L29-List message posted by: Jean de Roubin <delfin@mail.pf>
Hi, could you try to send me directly the attachement for AC
With many thanks
Jean de Roubin
Le 22 f=E9vr. 06 =E0 23:52, SD737@aol.com a =E9crit :
> --> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
>
> Ah, the attachment did not follow through the matronics system...
> sorry guys
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | air con - real question |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Has anyone ever stripped down the components of the air con system? I can
accept that its not a great system, but I don't seem to get air flow through
it.
Lots of cool air would be good, but even warm air blowing on me would be
better than no air!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: air con - real question |
--> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
OK I don't really know anything about jets, or systems, but I'll throw in my
2 cents worth. Does the jet have a 110V AC power supply while in the air? If
so, could you not strip down a $100 window unit AC like used in a house,
reconfigure/reshape it so it will fit into whatever baggage space you have?
Maybe replace the existing AC unit, and hook up to existing duct work? How
ridiculous of an idea is this?
Boyce
already laughing at the idea....
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: air con - real question |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
The L-29 air conditioning unit is a turbo-cooler design. Hot bleed air
fromthe compressor is sent through a diverter/mixer valve, one side of
the diverter valve goes straight into the cockpit to provide heat, the
air is turned on by pushing the cabin pressurization valve on. The
other side of the diverter valve goes through an air2air heat
exchanger to pre-cool the hot bleed air, the output of the heat
exchanger goes through a turbine. The act of turning turbine expends
enrgery and thereby cools the air. then it is mixed with the hot side
from the diverter valve to regulate the air temp. The diverter valve
is controlled by the 3 position switch in the cockpit, cold diverts
all air to to the heat exchanger, hot bypasses the heat exchanger, and
automat controls the diverter valve based on the thermostat in the
cokpit, mixing the hot and cold bleed air to the desired temp.
There are 2 major problems with the system. First the heat exchanger
relies on RAM air in order to cool the hot bleed air, when the jet is
stationary the heat exchanger does nothing due to lack of RAM air. The
second issue is that the cooler turbine is too small to really cool
the air sufficiently to work in extreme temps. A larger turbine cannot
be fitted (Like the L-39 unit) because the M-701 doesnt have
sufficient excess bleed air capacity to turn anything larger and still
maintain combustion pressures.
I have worked on and off on a 24v powered auto air compressor, but
this also has its limitations. There is very little room in the nose
compartment for a sufficient size condensor. There is no good place to
place an decent size evaporator in the cockpit, and there is no easy
way to deal with condensation in the cockpit, so you would end up with
a whole lot of water in the belly.
I experimented with a marine type refrigeration 24v compressor but it
didnt have the capacity required for cooling. I may try again with a
24v syncronous motor which may have the required torque to turn the
compressor, but power draw will be on the order of about 60 amps.
Plumbing through the pressure vessel is also an issue which needs
resolution.
Ernie
On 2/24/06, RAMPEYBOY@aol.com <RAMPEYBOY@aol.com> wrote:
> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>
> OK I don't really know anything about jets, or systems, but I'll throw in my
> 2 cents worth. Does the jet have a 110V AC power supply while in the air? If
> so, could you not strip down a $100 window unit AC like used in a house,
> reconfigure/reshape it so it will fit into whatever baggage space you have?
> Maybe replace the existing AC unit, and hook up to existing duct work? How
> ridiculous of an idea is this?
> Boyce
> already laughing at the idea....
>
>
Message 5
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--> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
I read on the list about the L-29 manual being available on CD. How do I get
one, and how much? "Zach" was the reported contact person, but the Email I
had for him bounced back. Thanks!
Boyce
Message 6
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--> L29-List message posted by: "Gary Cole" <ca6209@flash.net>
Try Z at www.warbirdseast.com
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 1:24 PM
Subject: L29-List: MANUAL ON CD?
--> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
I read on the list about the L-29 manual being available on CD. How do I
get
one, and how much? "Zach" was the reported contact person, but the Email I
had for him bounced back. Thanks!
Boyce
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: MANUAL ON CD? |
--> L29-List message posted by: Colyergreg@aol.com
I have it available on CD. In fact I have all the manuals available. Free
Just pay for the shipping and a disk.
Message 8
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| Subject: | air con - real question |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Comprehensive answer Ernie!
OK so no easy answers re the aircon. I remember you were experimenting.
Regarding airflow, when the aircon is running, cool or hot, can you actually
feel any type of breeze in the cockpit?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Sent: 24 February 2006 08:14 PM
Subject: Re: L29-List: air con - real question
--> L29-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
The L-29 air conditioning unit is a turbo-cooler design. Hot bleed air
fromthe compressor is sent through a diverter/mixer valve, one side of the
diverter valve goes straight into the cockpit to provide heat, the air is
turned on by pushing the cabin pressurization valve on. The other side of
the diverter valve goes through an air2air heat exchanger to pre-cool the
hot bleed air, the output of the heat exchanger goes through a turbine. The
act of turning turbine expends enrgery and thereby cools the air. then it is
mixed with the hot side from the diverter valve to regulate the air temp.
The diverter valve is controlled by the 3 position switch in the cockpit,
cold diverts all air to to the heat exchanger, hot bypasses the heat
exchanger, and automat controls the diverter valve based on the thermostat
in the cokpit, mixing the hot and cold bleed air to the desired temp.
There are 2 major problems with the system. First the heat exchanger relies
on RAM air in order to cool the hot bleed air, when the jet is stationary
the heat exchanger does nothing due to lack of RAM air. The second issue is
that the cooler turbine is too small to really cool the air sufficiently to
work in extreme temps. A larger turbine cannot be fitted (Like the L-39
unit) because the M-701 doesnt have sufficient excess bleed air capacity to
turn anything larger and still maintain combustion pressures.
I have worked on and off on a 24v powered auto air compressor, but this also
has its limitations. There is very little room in the nose compartment for a
sufficient size condensor. There is no good place to place an decent size
evaporator in the cockpit, and there is no easy way to deal with
condensation in the cockpit, so you would end up with a whole lot of water
in the belly.
I experimented with a marine type refrigeration 24v compressor but it didnt
have the capacity required for cooling. I may try again with a 24v
syncronous motor which may have the required torque to turn the compressor,
but power draw will be on the order of about 60 amps.
Plumbing through the pressure vessel is also an issue which needs
resolution.
Ernie
On 2/24/06, RAMPEYBOY@aol.com <RAMPEYBOY@aol.com> wrote:
> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>
> OK I don't really know anything about jets, or systems, but I'll
> throw in my
> 2 cents worth. Does the jet have a 110V AC power supply while in the
> air? If so, could you not strip down a $100 window unit AC like used
> in a house, reconfigure/reshape it so it will fit into whatever baggage
space you have?
> Maybe replace the existing AC unit, and hook up to existing duct
> work? How ridiculous of an idea is this?
> Boyce
> already laughing at the idea....
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: air con - real question |
--> L29-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Or is there anyplace one can attach an automotive type compressor?
Shaft speeds on the engine, of course, are out of the question.
David M.
RAMPEYBOY@aol.com wrote:
> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>
> OK I don't really know anything about jets, or systems, but I'll throw in my
> 2 cents worth. Does the jet have a 110V AC power supply while in the air? If
> so, could you not strip down a $100 window unit AC like used in a house,
> reconfigure/reshape it so it will fit into whatever baggage space you have?
> Maybe replace the existing AC unit, and hook up to existing duct work? How
> ridiculous of an idea is this?
> Boyce
> already laughing at the idea....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MANUAL ON CD? |
--> L29-List message posted by: "Bill" <czech6@kellin.net>
The cd will be at our little get together in Calif.
I can burn some. (I'll try)
----- Original Message -----
From: <RAMPEYBOY@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: L29-List: MANUAL ON CD?
> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>
> I read on the list about the L-29 manual being available on CD. How do I
> get
> one, and how much? "Zach" was the reported contact person, but the Email
> I
> had for him bounced back. Thanks!
> Boyce
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | L-29 and other jets at Reno Air Races? |
--> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
Hi guys,
I live in Reno and I spoke with the Reno Air Race Association (RARA) two
weeks ago and asked about L-29's getting into the races and he said that
actually they might not have the L-39's race any longer. He said they don't
make
enough noise and that the crowd finds them boring. Also, last year Dave
Canavo's L-39 walked away with the race, and so there really wasn't a race hence
it wasn't much of a crowd pleaser....
Read this article below.
Some of you may have heard that the L-39 Jet Races in Reno are in jeopardy.
There is some truth to that rumor. I won't get into the politics of the issue,
however, it is a reality that RARA is looking to improve the participation
and sponsorship for the event. CJAA member Jim O'neal is spearheading an
effort to gather enough support to keep the Jets from becoming a footnote at Reno.
I will be lending my support on behalf of CJAA as well. The initial concept
is to pattern the Jets after all the other competitiive classes. What this
means in a nutshell is that all subsonic speed jet aircraft will be able to
compete rather than a one only (L-39) model. SOOOOO, any jet, (L-29's, Casa's,
Fouga's, Tweets, Provosts,Iskra's, T-33's, L-39's, etc., etc. etc.) will be
racing against similar SPEED aircraft. Jim is working to draw up a set of rules
that will be the model for the event. We're going to bend as many elbows as
we can to gather at least a minimum of 20+ Jets to committ to Reno this
September. One other big hurdle that needs to be addressed is sponsorship for
the
Jet Class. Basically, we will need individuals, companies, corporations, etc.
to sponsor the prize money for the class. Being a sponsor at the event does
have its privileges.
The bottom line is that we need to move on this ASAP. Watching the Races is
a great adrenaline rush, now, guess what the feeling would be to
participate!!!!!! Please, Please, contact me if you think that you or a group of
you
might wish to pool resources to race or sponsor part of the event. Jim and I will
be at the Convention for a brief on the progress, and to answer any
questions. E'mail me if you have any inclinations as we need to start recruiting
Now.
Tally Ho!! Doc B.l _mblevins@psln.com_ (mailto:mblevins@psln.com)
Return-path: <BrienAttorney@aol.com>
From: BrienAttorney@aol.com
Full-name: BrienAttorney
Subject: copy for your review
-------------------------------1140848755
Some of you may have heard that the L-39 Jet Races in Reno are in jeopardy.
There is some truth to that rumor. I won't get into the politics of the issue,
however, it is a reality that RARA is looking to improve the participation and
sponsorship for the event. CJAA member Jim O'neal is spearheading an effort
to gather enough support to keep the Jets from becoming a footnote at Reno. I
will be lending my support on behalf of CJAA as well. The initial concept is to
pattern the Jets after all the other competitiive classes. What this means in
a nutshell is that all subsonic speed jet aircraft will be able to compete
rather than a one only (L-39) model. SOOOOO, any jet, (L-29's, Casa's, Fouga's,
Tweets, Provosts,Iskra's, T-33's, L-39's, etc., etc. etc.) will be racing
against similar SPEED aircraft. Jim is working to draw up a set of rules that will
be the model for the event. We're going to bend as many elbows as we can to
gather at least a minimum of 20+ Jets to committ to Reno this September. One
other big hurdle that needs to be addressed is sponsorship for the Jet Class.
Basically, we will need individuals, companies, corporations, etc. to sponsor
the prize money for the class. Being a sponsor at the event does have its
privileges.
The bottom line is that we need to move on this ASAP. Watching the Races is a
great adrenaline rush, now, guess what the feeling would be to
participate!!!!!! Please, Please, contact me if you think that you or a group of
you might
wish to pool resources to race or sponsor part of the event. Jim and I will be
at the Convention for a brief on the progress, and to answer any questions.
E'mail me if you have any inclinations as we need to start recruiting Now. Tally
Ho!! Doc B.l mblevins@psln.com
Law Offices of David R. Brien
23801 Calabasas Road, Suite 1006
Calabasas, CA 91302
Telephone: (818) 222-6887
Facsimile: (818) 222-6894
http://www.alternativedisputecenters.com/
The information contained in
this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential
Use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an
attorney-client communication and/or work product and as such is
Privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received
this document in error and that any review, dissemination,
Distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error, please notify us
Immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. If you are not
the intended recipient you are directed to delete this message and
Destroy any copies thereof.
-------------------------------1140848755
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=3DGENERATOR>
Some of you may have heard that the L-39 Jet Races in Reno are in jeopardy. There
is some truth to that rumor. I won't get into the politics of the issue, however,
it is a reality that RARA is looking to improve the participation and sponsorship
for the event. CJAA member Jim O'neal is spearheading an effort to
gather enough support to keep the Jets from becoming a footnote at Reno. I will
be lending my support on behalf of CJAA as well. The initial concept is to pattern
the Jets after all the other competitiive classes.=20What this means in
a nutshell is that all subsonic speed jet aircraft will be able to compete rather
than a one only (L-39) model. SOOOOO, any jet, (L-29's, Casa's, Fouga's,
Tweets, Provosts,Iskra's, T-33's, L-39's, etc., etc. etc.) will be racing against
similar SPEED aircraft. Jim is working to draw up a set of rules that will
be the model for the event. We're going to bend as many elbows as we can to gather
at least a minimum of 20+ Jets to committ=20to Reno this September. One
other big hurdle that needs to be addressed is sponsorship for the Jet Class.
Basically, we will need individuals, companies, corporations, etc. to sponsor
the prize money for the class. Being a sponsor at the event does have its privileges.
The bottom line is that we need to move on this ASAP. Watching the Races is a great
adrenaline rush, now, guess what the feeling would be to participate!!!!!!
Please, Please, contact=20me if you think that you or a group of you might wish
to pool resources to race or sponsor part of the event. Jim and I will be
at the Convention for a=20brief on the progress, and to answer any questions.
E'mail me if you have any inclinations as we need to start recruiting Now. Tally
Ho!! Doc B.l mblevins@psln.com
Law Offices of David R. Brien
23801 Calabasas Road, Suite 1006
Calabasas, CA 91302
Telephone: (818) 222-6887
Facsimile: (818) 222-6894
<A title=3Dhttp://www.alternativedisputecenters.com/ /">http://www.alternativedisputecenters.com/
The information contained in
this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential
Use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an
attorney-client communication and/or work product and as such is
Privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the
intended recipient, you are=20hereby notified that you have received
this document in error and that any review, dissemination,
Distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error, please notify us
Immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. If you are not
the intended recipient you are directed to delete this message and
Destroy any copies thereof.
-------------------------------1140848755--
Message 12
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| Subject: | More RARA jet info |
--> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
A number of you are already aware that the Reno Air Racing Association
(RARA) is questioning the value of the L-39 Jet races in Reno,as to participation
and sponsorship. With the blessing of CJAA and under the leadership of Jim
O'Neal, I'm asking that the L-39 owners/pilots gather as much support as you
can to keep the Jet class from becoming extinct. We're looking to include other
subsonic jet species. (29's, Casa's, Fouga's, Provost's, etc, etc.) The
concept is to have "like speed" models racing against each other rather than one
model (39). This would mean that we would have a Gold, Siver, Bronze event
similar to the other classes. For that reason we need committed planes. For
first time racing pilots there is a school that you must attend ("which way is
left"!!!!!) If you've had the desire to compete, now is the time. If you
choose not to compete, but, would like to help financially as a sponsor of the
Jet
Class, 50% of all sponsor money goes back to the racers as prize money, we
need you as well. I also, posted a similar plea on the CJAA website
(classicjets.org_) Please contact me by E'mail or phone if you can help out.
#530-253-3947 _mblevins@psln.com_ (mailto:mblevins@psln.com) See you at the Races. Doc
B.
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